vaccines

August 16, 2000

Fax or e mail him and his office will get back to you. Kathy

September 11, 2000

In a message dated 9/11/00 12:56:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

felicia.ward@... writes:

<< She also had the new Hep vaccine that

had just come out-injected it in 3 different doses-the first one the

day she was born.

>>

so did my son, and a round of antibiotics with it!

Carol G

September 27, 2000

Hi all -

Can someone recommend one or two websites that talk about the concerns

regarding vaccines, that my sister can bring to her baby's pediatrician?

A website that doctors might respect - not ones that include sentimental

stories by mothers but ones that contain medically-substantiated

information. Thanks - nne

September 27, 2000

YES GO TO messages/govinfo/1 AT THE SEARCH

FUNCTION TYPE IN vaccine LETS SEE THE DOCTOR ARGUE WITH CDC, FDA,

NIH, ECT.

> Hi all -

>

> Can someone recommend one or two websites that talk about the

concerns

> regarding vaccines, that my sister can bring to her baby's

pediatrician?

> A website that doctors might respect - not ones that include

sentimental

> stories by mothers but ones that contain medically-substantiated

> information. Thanks - nne

September 28, 2000

Judy,

Go just a little further: Parents around the world will form a large

class action lawsuit for the damage caused by X Y Z drug companies

to their young children and soon, the companies stock will fall and

soon after, Chapter 7 will be quickly filed by all companies and

individuals

liable - in an attempt to save their skin. In the meantime, our children

will still be having a hard time with life, because some will not fully

recover from the assault of Thimerosal, and as usual, services will

be far stretched. We sure need to plan our lives even more than the usual.

Aly

[ ] vaccines

and list, I appreciate all the information that has

posted, especially the Pink Disease info. I definitely see a same trend

of History repeating. Now I know why, when I asked a question about

vaccines, I was told to ask another Doctor. Doctors did not know the

ingredients of the vaccines. The mercury shot will be quietly replaced

in the doctor's office and health dept. The mercury shots will be sent

to the Third world countries, where no stats. exists. Drug companies

will replace the vaccines, and receive big tax credits. Stock prices

will go up, Clinton will be praised. All mercury products will be

pulled from shelves and destroyed. Dentists will quietly replace

mercury fillings with New and improved products. Oak Ridge will quietly

change its landscape. T he Book will be closed, except for a small quiet

study at Vanderbilt University . " The Effect of Mercury Vaccines on the

Growing Child. "

Judie Forehand

August 15, 2001

When I went to see the new ped (who I will not be going back too) he said to

hold off on all vaccines for now (fine except she is fully up to date on them

and isn't due for more for 3+ years) because there is still so much that is

unknown of the risks. I had briefly thought of this but now of course it has got

me thinking more and I had wished I would have been more informed before just

accepting these vaccines. Oh ugh, just another thing to think about and wonder

about and worry about!

& Jaynie (21 months hypotonia, dyspraxia, developmental delays)

There is a Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of

Philadelphia (CHOP) in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, that has developed a

first-of-its-kind educational video for parents and health care

professionals. It was created to address the most common questions about

vaccines, dispel the myths & misconceptions surrounding their safety &

illustrate the threat that vaccine-preventable diseases still pose for

children in the U.S. & the world. It is called: Vaccines: Separating Fact

from Fear.

I don't know if it's available to anyone, or just to people who live in the

area.

This information is paraphrased from Advance for Speech-Language Pathologist

& Audiologists.

Vera

August 15, 2001

> Corey tested for mercury toxicity tomorrow.

I was wondering what test is going to be preformed to determine this. I have

been looking into this for my son and I haven't been able to come up with a

test that would be able to tell since he was exposed so long ago through his

shots. Thanks in advance. Lori

August 15, 2001

pam, how do you go about getting a test for mercury toxicity? I have done

most of the vaccines but declined a couple and will not be doing anymore. I

would like to get my kids tested also. thanks kate.

August 15, 2001

I totally understand your fear. And you should be afraid. We are having

Corey tested for mercury toxicity tomorrow. I'm very nervous about this and

am afraid that he was exposed to high doses of mercury from his

immunizations. If so, then we have a long process of detoxification to go

through. If it isn't the mercury, then we have at least ruled that out and

are basically back at square one. But, I would rather know the truth and

start treatment asap. Corey is 3 yrs. 8 mths. and I also have 22 month old

twins. They have received all of the recommended immunizations also because

I didn't learn about the possible harm from them until after the fact. I

would certainly recommend that all new mothers read and study the possible

effects from immunizations before getting them. I am not against

immunizations, I think they have saved thousands of lives. However, I think

there needs to be some changes in the number of immunizations children are

required by a certain age. And that all immunizations should be free of

mercury (thimerasol).

Pam

Kansas City, MO

When I went to see the new ped (who I will not be going back too) he said to

hold off on all vaccines for now (fine except she is fully up to date on

them and isn't due for more for 3+ years) because there is still so much

that is unknown of the risks. I had briefly thought of this but now of

course it has got me thinking more and I had wished I would have been more

informed before just accepting these vaccines. Oh ugh, just another thing to

think about and wonder about and worry about!

& Jaynie (21 months hypotonia, dyspraxia, developmental delays)

November 28, 2001

Lindsey had the hep b soon after birth. I know it couldn't have been 12

hours. I have my suspicions, since Lindsey was smaller then expected, trouble

regulating her temp at it was, and then shot her with mercury. I've asked

two DR to test her for mercury, but both denied.

Jennie

November 28, 2001

I took my son to a neurologist yesterday. I told

him about the hep b shot series that I received while

pregnant b/c I was supicsious. He said that they are

safe and no research or studies have proven otherwise.

He said pregnant women still receive the shots. I

told him about the mercury and the connection and he

would not consider what I was saying. So I had to

drop it.

--- borngmama@... wrote:

> Lindsey had the hep b soon after birth. I know it

> couldn't have been 12

> hours. I have my suspicions, since Lindsey was

> smaller then expected, trouble

> regulating her temp at it was, and then shot her

> with mercury. I've asked

> two DR to test her for mercury, but both denied.

>

> Jennie

>

> [Non-text portions of this message have been

> removed]

>

__________________________________________________

March 7, 2002

Vaccines have prevented many outbreaks of

fatal diseases over the past # of years. This

generation of living has never been totally

exposed to serious epidemics, but if we did,

we would most certainly want the vaccines to

be distributed.

Once, and I pray to God soon, the new immune

modulators are out there and more research is

conducted we will know more about when the

vaccines should be given. Perhaps alterations

will be produced regarding the exact ingredients

the vaccines will contain. In the meanwhile, I

think we should all focus on getting the word

out there and pray for the adequate funds to

be at our fingertips.

Michele

April 18, 2002

Like Steve said, research pro's and con's.

Let me give you a small snap shot of just one family.

I just want to share 3 experiences about the vaccines.

One brother received the polio shot (live virus) he got polio.

Another brother decided to have the flu vaccine, to avoid taking

off work with the flu, he hasn't been to work now in 3 yrs, he cannot walk.

The Mayo Clinic says it was the flu Vaccine, but they don't

want to get involved with a court case, but they see at least 30

people a year that this happens to.

Lastly my son is severely autistic, wasn't born that way. Talked

played like any other toddler until one day, a vaccine took his childhood.

We are working our way back, many chapters to still write.

That's been my flip slide with the vaccines.

And I ask why on earth would you give a newborn infant

a Hepatitis shot the first day of life? Unless the Mother and Father

have Hepatitis or live in a third world country that doesn't have

any sanitation, it doesn't make sense.

Why would Autism be sky rocketing? The rate is over 500 %

over 100, 000 will be diagnosed this year alone in this country.

Allie

>When it comes to vaccines and your children I think it's every parent's

>right to make their own informed choice. While reading your e-mail I become

>slightly concerned that it seemed that all of your information was coming

>from " the advice " of your doctor. Have you taken the time to really search

>out both the " pros " and the " cons " of vaccines - using your doctor or a

>medical professional as a source, but not the sole source?

April 19, 2002

AMEN to that Allie!

Like I told my pediatrician, she's already talking to that small percentage...my

son HAS autism. So now we have to go from there. We are that minority. I know

of 4 people in their 20s that had polio...every one of them got it from the

vaccine. I've heard that the last reported case of polio NOT from the vaccine

was in 1969.

Tammy

[ ] Re: Vaccines

Like Steve said, research pro's and con's.

Let me give you a small snap shot of just one family.

I just want to share 3 experiences about the vaccines.

One brother received the polio shot (live virus) he got polio.

Another brother decided to have the flu vaccine, to avoid taking

off work with the flu, he hasn't been to work now in 3 yrs, he cannot walk.

The Mayo Clinic says it was the flu Vaccine, but they don't

want to get involved with a court case, but they see at least 30

people a year that this happens to.

Lastly my son is severely autistic, wasn't born that way. Talked

played like any other toddler until one day, a vaccine took his childhood.

We are working our way back, many chapters to still write.

That's been my flip slide with the vaccines.

And I ask why on earth would you give a newborn infant

a Hepatitis shot the first day of life? Unless the Mother and Father

have Hepatitis or live in a third world country that doesn't have

any sanitation, it doesn't make sense.

Why would Autism be sky rocketing? The rate is over 500 %

over 100, 000 will be diagnosed this year alone in this country.

Allie

>When it comes to vaccines and your children I think it's every parent's

>right to make their own informed choice. While reading your e-mail I become

>slightly concerned that it seemed that all of your information was coming

>from " the advice " of your doctor. Have you taken the time to really search

>out both the " pros " and the " cons " of vaccines - using your doctor or a

>medical professional as a source, but not the sole source?

April 19, 2002

Okay, I didn't want to jump on a soapbox because I do feel that it is a

parents choice. As a matter of fact I went out of my way to not be

judgmental, but this statement was the one that forced me to go pull the

soapbox out -

It is a parents choice about vaccines, but when parents choose not to

immunize their kids it puts the rest of us at

risk because some immunizations do not take.

This one gets me going every time because it's pure scare tactic and doesn't

even make sense. Let me show you why. Your child gets their megadoses of

vaccines before two - to grant them immunity. Then a short while later they

get blasted again - in case the first batch didn't take (even though some

children don't need this round, but there's no reason to find that out before

the jab 'cause it would be too expensive). Then as your child gets older they

get additional boosters. Now if I choose not to have my child immunized - how

does that put your child at risk? I understand the argument that my child is

threatened ~ because he hasn't had the " miracle " vaccines. However, YOUR

CHILD HAS. The fatal flaw with the argument is that the only way my child can

possibly put your child at risk is if they have not become immune. The only

way your child cannot be immune after repeated jabs is if the vaccine isn't

working and if they're not working why is your child getting them!

And if your child hasn't received immunity isn't your child putting everybody

else at risk? As a matter of fact maybe your child is the one that will cause

the outbreak? After all, many parents who choose not to immunize are even

more alert to health issues with their children because they haven't been

lulled into a relax state of false security. They are more aware of what to

watch for and how to treat and react when symptoms surface because they've

done the research up front.

Millions of dollars are spent to scare parents into vaccinating their

children. That isn't idle speculation it's fact. Look at the tremendous push

behind the Chicken Pox vaccines now. Despite the fact that they've not been

proven to work (outbreaks this past year are again calling it's effectiveness

into question) and despite the fact that no studies have been done to prove

that long term immunity is given (and Chicken Pox as an adult is MUCH MORE

DANGEROUS than getting it as a child) and Chicken Pox is not deadly ~ as a

matter of fact most everybody reading this has probably had it (many people

reading this have possibly also had Measles, Mumps, Rubella or Whooping Cough

and survived ~ yes you can survive). Now it's also true that complications

from any of these things can cause problems and in some very rare cases

death. But within a generation or two of this Chicken Pox vaccine (if it

doesn't get pulled) we're going to have a country full of people sure that if

they start getting a couple of red bumps that they're surely going to die.

The choice is and should be yours. But think hard and ask yourself:

1) Should we call into question safety results and safety

recommendations produced by folks receiving money from

or heavily invested in the same companies making the vaccines?

2) Should we question the folks that tell us full vaccination is

required to go to school, and not getting them

will mean your child will have to leave? (Which is not true in

many states - including my home state of Michigan)

3) Should we question the quality of the information that we're

getting from school districts and doctors that receive

financial incentives and funding based on vaccination rates?

4) Should we question drug companies that " educate us " on their

products in " public service style " ads with

bouncing happy faces and sad crying jack-in-the-box clowns?

5) Should we question doctors who are coming (deservedly so) under

extremely heavy criticism for overmedicating

our children?

6) Should we question the safety of the additives that everyone has

sworn are safe, even though their own numbers

say that it's not, and now under heavy review are being pulled?

7) Should you question the safety of vaccines being traced back to,

and even the government is now starting to on a

very limited basis accept, caused syndromes like the Gulf War

Syndrome - even though the soldiers were

assured that it was perfectly safe?

8) SHOULDN'T YOU QUESTION ANYBODY THAT WANTS TO STICK NUMEROUS NEEDLES

IN YOUR

INFANTS ARM AND PUSH DRUGS INTO THEIR LITTLE IMMATURE SYSTEMS?

And if you're a parent that has a child with a system that is compromised or

who has a child with delays or disabilities and knows about the risks of

immunizations and you don't fully investigate ever

medication/drug/immunization that your child is supposed to receive is flat

out irresponsible. Doctors do make mistakes, doctors are wrong and when their

mistakes can cost your child their life or future it's absolutely your

responsibility to make sure that you know everything you possibly can and

that your information is from as many varied sources as you can find.

None of us would openly and immediately trust any salesperson trying to sell

us something, after all they have a vested financial interest in your

believing them, the problem is that if you don't see someone as a sales

person you miss that you're being sold!

I realize many of the people that read this will chalk me up as " one of those

people who is putting everybody's children at risk " and one of those " scary

anti-vaccine parents " . But answer the questions above and then ask yourself

what benefits do I receive from you fully questioning vaccines?

I'll now get back down and tuck my soapbox away.............

Steve

April 19, 2002

Hi,

Just picked up this thread and whilst I agree with much and am

interested in all, it is a little depressing that the discussion can

get a little simplistic when it is such a complicated issue. In the

UK we have spent so much time re the MMR saying vaccinate or not when

the question is how and when to vaccinate as well as if !!!

I KNOW my sons autism and dispraxia were caused by the MMR but I do

not think that the majority of parents need avoid this vaccination -

kids with eczema, asthma , gut problems or depressed immunity

probably should. The single jab is more effective and longer lasting

but is not promoted because once the patent expired the drug

companies profits reduced - and so the MMR was born with a whole new

patent and a new oppertunity to make some good cash. Only 90% of

children gain immunity from the MMR yet this remains the immunisation

of choice. In the recent measles outbreak in SE London more than half

of the kids that contracted measles had had their immunistion - not

great statistics.

I am investigating immunisations at the moment because I am pregnant

again and whilst I will consult with my Doctor he is my medical

advisor and his advice I will weigh heavily but that is all - my

decision to vaccinate will be exactly that MINE.

I think Doctors take their responsibility to their patients very

seriously ( our best man and my sons godfather is a GP) but things

like vaccination schedules are laid down by governments on the basis

of cost ( which is reasonable) and herd immunity ( which is

necessary). This is not always in the best interest of the INDIVIDUAL

child. I would have more faith in the whole system had we not

recently had to witness the pathetic spectacle of the British and USA

govt's asking not DEMANDING of the drugs companies that they remove

thimerosal ( mercury) from their products. Now call me a fool but I

tend to think that removing mercury - one of the worlds most toxic

substances -from a drug injected into the body of an infant with

alost no immune response is unwise unless absoloutely necessary - and

it is NOT a necessary ingredient. Most of our kids will have been

injected with tens if not hundreds of times the recommended maximum

level of mercury before their 5th birthday. And having ASKED the drug

companies our representatives in government got a yes - as long as

the drug companies were allowed to sell off their existing batches

first. So if your child is due a shot you might like to ask if it has

mercury or not!!

As for would I vaccinate again ? Unlike the other lady - anyone who

wants to come at my children with a MMR jab will have to climb over

my dead body ( maybe if my son " only " had speech problems I would be

less opposed) and the others I will decide on a case by case basis

in conjunction with my Doctors opinion - as it happens my Doctor is

great and I listen to his advice carefully - particularly as he was

the first one to admit to me that his practice receives a payment

from the Government when he achieves certain take up levels of

vaccination - a nice cash payment for evry yes !!. You might want to

check your Doctor is similarly candid when you are choosing to do

what he tells you. You might also want to think about the HUGE sums

of money paid to ALL of the political parties in both the UK and the

USA when you review the vaccination schedule recommended for your

child.( Hep. for babies !!!! Rubella for all infants ?- why not all

girls at puberty? Why do babies need chicken pox vaccine - 9 people

in the UK have died in the last 3 years and all were elderly

following subsequent complications. Of the two children who died in

the Irish measles outbreak a couple of years ago one had a heart

condition and had been weakened by having to have the chicken pox

vaccine in previous weeks because of an outbreak in his hospital

ward.)

I don't think vaccines are bad - in the right place and at the right

times they are miracles but we think we can solve everything with a

drug or a jab. I wish with all my heart that I had NOT listened to my

GP and had let my boys take their chances with getting measles - as I

and all my peers did at school with no bad effects . In all my youth

neither I nor my eight siblings and all our forty cousins spread

across England either met or heard of one child who was permenantly

damaged by measles. I know that it does occur and when it does it is

a tragedy. But I personnally know nearly twenty people who feel their

child developed autism post vaccination and I have to question which

truly now is the bigger threat ?

If I can get thimerosal free injection I will probably have most but

not all of those recommended but perhaps not when they are

recommended. I have a sense of responsibility to the whole community

and I take this issue seriously however some of that responsibilty

includes attempting to avoid the risk of another autistic child. I

love him dearly but Charlie and his peers are going to cause major

problems for his ( and his brothers) generation. With the estimate

for care of an autistic child/adult set at over a million pounds

across a lifetime and the incidence of autism up from one in 10,000

in the 1980's to one in 166 today - who is going to look after these

kids and who on earth is going to pay for it ?

By 2020 it will be one child in two. I'm hoping by then someone will

look seriously at this and what is causing it. It is too late for my

son but maybe not for others.

Regrads

Deborah

April 20, 2002

nobody has proven to me yet the vaccinations cause autism or any other type

of disability. In the past before kids were immunized there were children

with speech problems, developmental delays and autism. My guess is that it

is just as prevalent as it is today. The only difference is that today we

have computers, telephones and television that allows everyone to get

together and compare. We also have names for the symptoms that in the past

would have labeled each kid differently. Everythign in this world is not

from vaccinations, electric lines, television etc....

April 20, 2002

Hi ,

I'm sorry but your statement is simply not true - unless you disagree

with almost every Government- every medical agency in the world and

every Doctor specializing in the field. Whatever the position re

developmental delay autism is DEFINATLY INDISPUTABLY on the increase

and at a staggering rate. The British Government have recorded and

charted the increase and my earlier figures of 1 in 10,000 in 1980's

to 1 in 166 were agreed and confirmed by the NHS , the General

Medical Councill and the MRC aurism review.

By all means dispute the cause of the increase - that is up to you

and absoloutely correct based on your own experince etc but you can't

ignore the problem by just saying it isn't so badsed on your own gut

feeling - any more than I can say I'm not sure there are more cars on

the road than 20 years ago - it is just nonsense.

My son was talking the day he walked into the Doctors surgery to have

his MMR and never did again. I have videos of him playing

appropriately etc but I truly understand that this is something it is

hard to comprehend unless you witness it with your own eyes - I

probably would have felt a little like you two years ago ! I don't

have any agenda though and the only reason I speak up is that I think

some other kids ( with immune probs etc might be better served by

later or different injections - I just think parents like me should

add to the information pool so that all parents have the info they

need to do the best for their child . Is that bad ? I don't truly

care whether this is " proven " to you or not, you obviously feel the

current injections and programmes are fine and that is great for

you , but some mum with a kid with allergies and poor immune response

may go for say seperate injections and that may be a better choice

for that child - that's all !

Regards

Deborah

sIn @y..., jal6262@a... wrote:

> nobody has proven to me yet the vaccinations cause autism or any

other type

> of disability. In the past before kids were immunized there were

children

> with speech problems, developmental delays and autism. My guess is

that it

> is just as prevalent as it is today. The only difference is that

today we

> have computers, telephones and television that allows everyone to

get

> together and compare. We also have names for the symptoms that in

the past

> would have labeled each kid differently. Everythign in this world

is not

> from vaccinations, electric lines, television etc....

April 21, 2002

Hi Deborah,

I do relate to how you feel. I always believed that Tanner's apraxia was

from two weeks of high fevers at 11 months, but the question as to did he have

shots right before the fevers I don't remember. I would never have

thought of that and nobody even asked me until Tanner was diagnosed

with apraxia close to two years later. Bottom line is that I have

pictures from before and after the fevers -and those right after are

not shown at the website I built -they were hidden away, painful to

look at. I only brought them out because of the documentary we were

just filmed for. To have a smiling happy and babbling baby change

before your eyes into a lethargic quiet baby with a blank stare is

horrific and painful. I don't know what caused it for a fact in

Tanner's case -however that there may be environmental factors at

play with the increase in autism and related disorders should not be

in question in any of our minds as you pointed out.

To vaccinate or not continues to be an extremely painful and

emotional topic, especially since there are strong educated sides to

both views. I've spoken with Sallie Bernard on this

http://www.safeminds.org and she has already addressed this more than once in

our group in our archives -and there are lots of other great archived

messages on this from Dr. Agin and others, as well as just information out there

on the net -or

that you can all discuss with your child's doctor. I don't

personally think the message is not to vaccinate your children as

much as it is to be an educated parent and be aware of what to ask

and why. In other words, know the reason for the vaccines as well as

the pros and cons and ask to see the package insert before you

vaccinate to make sure the doctor is not using old stock that

contains thermorisal -what harm is in that? Being educated has never

been easier thanks to the internet, as long as you know where to look.

Personally I don't always care if there is absolute proof before I

make decisions for my children -fish oil is an example of that. I

Thank God for word of mouth through the internet -for whoever that

first person was that posted about Efalex that made me more aware of

EFAs and how they help my son now no matter what caused his apraxia,

hypotonia and sensory integration. I know that Dr. Agin who is the

medical director for Early Intervention in NYC has seen an increase

in the amount of autism and related disorders personally, I know that

in NJ you can see the increase just by looking at State school records over

the last ten years. Just this past week on NJ 101.5 on the news they

said there is something like a 450 % increase in the amount of

autistic children in NJ -it's now one in every one hundred fifty

kids -and " not just in Brick NJ as most people think, but all over

the state "

Did a vaccine cause Tanner's apraxia -don't know and unfortunately

can't change what happened either way. However if I had another

child I know that I would vaccinate him or her because I do think

vaccinations are extremely important and have saved our children from

some horrible conditions and diseases -I would just do some things a

bit different because of what we all learned from the information out

there we can choose to read or not read -and choose to believe or not

believe. Again that's just my personal decision though which I hope

we all agree we have a right to here.

As I see this topic is sometimes one that brings out more anger than

others -as parents that love our children, I do hope that no matter

what our personal view points we can continue to be compassionate and

understanding to others who may not agree. Who knows -if we all

listen we may find common ground to stand on.

=====

April 22, 2002

,

Thank you! You state everything so calmly and rationally.

I am also very thankful for people sharing information about how to

make vaccines safer. I found out information about the DPT vaccine

in time to discuss different alternatives with my doctors.

I will also make sure that my daughters receive the mercury-free

vaccinations when they get the pre-kindegarten vaccinations.

April 22, 2002

Another option for the pre-kindegarden MMR is have a tider done to see if

he/she

already had the immunity (only a small percentage need the last one)

of course, they are available separately and mercury-free as stated below.

-----Original Message-----

,

Thank you! You state everything so calmly and rationally.

I am also very thankful for people sharing information about how to

make vaccines safer. I found out information about the DPT vaccine

in time to discuss different alternatives with my doctors.

I will also make sure that my daughters receive the mercury-free

vaccinations when they get the pre-kindegarten vaccinations.

April 23, 2002

Hi!

I'm going to chime in on this discussion only after a lot of

thought.

I have struggled with this issue for 21 years and I do not think that

in my mind, I will ever fully come to a comfortable decission.

One of the biggest problems that has been my difficulty is that the

infant immunizations are often given before most neurological

diseases would be diagnosed. In my oldest son's case, he was born

with Tuberous Sclerosis. This was diagnosed the day after his third

DPT, because the infantile spasms(that the ped. thought was colic)

became life threatening. He was in seizure 2 and a half minutes out

of 3 on his EEG. He is also autistic and you could see the change

within 24 hours of that DPT. Now, in hind sight he was having

seizures in-utero and the DPT did not cause them, but he still to

this day can have as many as 30 generalized seizues in one day and

never stops having complex partial seizures. We could not be part of

the class action case that occurred(because of the large number of

children that developed seizures due to the DPT), because he had a

diagnosis.

While I know that most of the children that are harmed by the DPT did

not have a disease prior, like my son, some with diseases that could

still be treated well enough to allow them to be capable of a descent

quality of life, are profoundly disabled and must rely on others for

their total care. If you have never seen a child go into complete

arrest due to a seizure or just not wake up for a few months, then

you do not know why many choose not to vaccinate. Pediatricians and

public service anoucements will " show n' tell " the horrors of

whooping cough, but I have never seen anything like my son's worst

seizures on TV and I am sure that pediatricians aren't going to show

anyone a picture of a child having turned dark purple with red eyes

nearly out of the sockets and black lips and mom doing the

resusitation.

When my daughter was born, I moved very slowly with her vaccines and

only had her given the DT and again with my next son. Now, with my

little one, she's 2, I have waited on most and want to do the MMR in

seperate dosages. She is at risk for autism and I don't want to

trigger something in her that may be able to be avoided. As for my

resposibility if she were to contract a disease or be part of an

outbreak, obviously I would not be alone in dealing with my guilt.

But, if I knowingly give her a substance that will cause her to

suffer the same fate as her brother, who will share my guilt?

Anyway, I do not have an answer to this question, because I do not

think that there is ever one answer to every problem. What I would

suggest is to make sure that there is not a family history in either

family for seizures or autism. You should ask about relatives that

were institutionalized or died in infancy. The buzz words would

be " fits " , episodes, shakes, twitches, spasms, day-dreamer, slow,

catatonic, epilepsy, psycomotor out bursts, fell down alot, brain

injured, and I'm sure there are more.

Just one more thing. As parents we try to do all of the right

things, but life can take us on paths that we have no control over.

My first daughter had Lyme Disease at age 7 and her first seizure at

8. She developed Chronic Fatigue Syndrome at 14 and was just

diagnosed with Fibromyalgia at 19. My second son was dealing with

substance abuse and after his recent suicide attempt, we realized

that he was self medicating and we had taken away his medication. He

was on high honor roll this fall and is now dealing with brain

atrophy of a yet unknow origin, seizures and mental illness. He's

16.

My little one has Opitz G/BBB, hypomelanosis of Ito w/CP and global

dyspraxia. After a recent hypoglicemic crisis, we are looking for a

metobolic source, also. She has a different daddy than the older

three, and we don't know what the link is, but obviously there must

be one.

We just never know what lies ahead and vaccines will one day be the

least of the worries. All we can do is make the best choice at that

time. Not right or wrong, just best with the knowledge we have at

that moment.

Gloria

April 23, 2002

HI

Just this past weekend, I got my boys vaccinated for Pre-K. I was struggling

with the idea since they turned 4 this past October. But once I got the

paperwork for their pre-K and saying they needed to be up to date on their

shots I started thinking and asking neighbors and friends and they all got

their kids the DPT, and MMR shots for school. My decision was based on their

school, they have alot of diversed nationalities and god knows what may be

brought into the school - I didn't want my kids getting terrrible sick from

any diseases. Since my kids were in prek at age 3 that first year they were

always sick, by being with alot sick children the parents leave at school

because they have no sitters to watch them at home. Well, they are

supplemented with 2 capsules of PRO EFA and they are improving and going into

mainstream next year.. I guess " to eaches own " ... JOYA

April 23, 2002

Gloria,

It sounds like we have similiar stories. I found out after the fact from

another mother that if a sibling has a history of seizures, they should not

receive vaccinations. This is something most families are never told. I do

however give them vaccinations but we have a totally different time table from

most families. But most families never have to face what we do.