RE: Please read re amount of steroid needed

[Guest guest]

I think reading the US adrenal site is quite alarming too, they seem to encourage people to take more and more steriod and always talk of stress doesing, I think its dangerous and none of them seem in a very good way anyway, I have reduced mine down to 25mg and will go back down to 20mg

Hi Sheila and allJust wanted to post my concerns about the amount of steroid many are taking and my reasons for these concerns.I have been reading and posting on the 's list for quite a while now to try and learn as much as I can about the problems of having no adrenal function. Recently I asked how much steroid were people taking who had adrenal insufficiency and thyroid disease.The first 2 who responded amazed me by telling me they were on 15 mg h/c a day, one had no adrenals whatsover, they had been removed because of a tumour if I remember correctly and the other one was a personal trainer who was very active and 15mg was sufficient for them both to feel well.The highest amount of h/c anybody was taking was 35mg h/c but they were hoping to lower this. The general consensus now is that 20mg of h/c or 5mg Pred equivalent is sufficient for normal functioning and that

even shortlived stress didn't need any higher dosing. (Somewhere I have a very detailed report of how during a stressful event that was shortlived it wasn't necessary to take anymore steroid than 20mg h/c when comparing the level of cortisol that a healthy person has during the same stressful event).I have also read widely about what amount of cortisol the body normally makes in a healthy person and in the latest studies it is quoted as 20-30 mg. This means we have to question where is all the rest of the cortisol going for people taking more than this amount?From my personal experience I have often felt that I needed more steroid on many days but I don't go over 25mg h/c with 22.5mg being my usual dose. However now that I have been treating a yeast called Geotrichum spieces that has been found in my gut following a Comprehensive Stool Analysis with Genova Diagnostics the past couple of

days I just haven't needed more than 5mg Pred. My temperature has been better and so has my energy, its just like I am taking a lot more steroid but I am not, in fact I am taking less. I have been following a strict diet of no sugar, no fruit and no wheat with carbs about 65 gms a day, it has been hard because on some days I have felt so ill and have had really bad migraines for many of the days but I knew this would be die-off and a good sign that what I am taking is working.The only conclusion that I can come to is that there is likely to be something else wrong with our bodies if we need more steroid and we should get this checked out. Unfortunately a GP isn't likely to be very helpful cos they only check for Candida and my result shows that there are many other types of yeasts that mimic Candida. I always had a negative result from my GP yet I knew there was something radically wrong with

my gut.Also I had a permanent discharge and this was another clue I had a systemic problem.It is highly likely that yeast is a problem for many of us because of our Western diet and I used to be a carbohydrate addict for many, many years. Also I was mercury poisoned and this plays havoc with our immune systems.Pam

[Guest guest]

I was also looking at the s forums these past few weeks.

I noted that none of the s patients were on more than 20mg of

hc, some were supplemented also with other types of cortisol

replacement, longer acting and with florinef depending on primary or

secondary s.

I did worry a little about the amount we are on, however, as we are at

the same time speeding up our metabolisms with Armour after a long

long time of very low metabolic rates that could be the reason the

cortisol washes out so quickly? Its a thought. They do often scare me

with stories of 40mg a day and stress doses I have to admit. I would

never go over 25mg and then only when raising Armour.

I suppose it depends on how bad your adrenals are, how long you have

been hypometabolic, and how much Armour you need to raise up to.

As for none of them being well on there, I suspect the ones who got

well no longer go on the forum lol.

I will be praying that I am doing the right thing with the hc. I

definately improves my mental state along with the t3 but when I am

withdrawing before next dose I am in a state where I could be

sectioned if I were not able to take it.

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn

I would suggest

that if the people on the 's disease forum are not taking any higher

dose other than 20 mgs HC, that this could be the reason for the members not

being well on there.

Luv - Sheila

As for none of them being well on there, I suspect the ones who got

well no longer go on the forum lol.

_,_._,___

[Guest guest]

HC has done NOTHING for me, I feel no benefit whatsoever, all it has done is put my blood sugar up so am not happy to keep upping it when it is doing that, yes I told DR P I had reduced it, since starting it I have become anxious and as you know been prescribed a number of other drugs as a consequence, it is a steriod, we all know that. I am going to continue with it while my thryoid gets back to where it was, but after that I dont know, the safe dose is 20mg, I worry that it will shut my adrenals down and they wont ever pick up again and work on their own---

It is a fact , that some people do need to stress dose and this is not dangerous at all if done carefully. Dr Peatfield has written about this and so have many doctors who know of the adrenal/thyroid connection. As doctors (mainly NHS in our case) do not even recognise the thyroid/adrenal connection, they know nothing about how to treat low adrenal reserve - only 's disease, and therefore, they are unable to help patients such as you and many of our members. The US adrenal site is no more "alarming" than TPA-UK or any of the other forums. They give recommendations by what they have personally experienced, or their members have experienced and through the recommendations of the doctors who know about this subject and I personally feel they are helping many, many sufferers who cannot get help elsewhere. However, having said

that, as we keep saying, we are all different and we have to personally decide whether to take anybody's recommendations regarding dosing of adrenal or thyroid supplementation. You should read, read and read again the information from sources you can trust 100% and become knowledgeable about these things.

I know you have reduced your HC to 25% - and was this on the recommendation of Dr P - and why are you considering reducing it down to 20mg? Are you reducing it because you feel the HC has done the job you needed it to do?

Sheila

I think reading the US adrenal site is quite alarming too, they seem to encourage people to take more and more steriod and always talk of stress dosing, I think its dangerous and none of them seem in a very good way anyway, I have reduced mine down to 25mg and will go back down to 20mg

[Guest guest]

Hi

Many hormones, body constituents, and drugs are steroids. The

term steroid may carry many meanings. Steroids may refer to the corticosteroid drugs

such as prednisone used to reduce swelling, pain, and other symptoms of inflammation.

Vitamin D is a steroid, and this is necessary for normal health. The male

hormone testosterone and its derivatives are steroids with anabolic effects

that can be used medically (or illicitly) to build up muscle mass. We are not

talking about anabolic steroids and would never recommend anabolic steroids for

treating adrenals. Did you know that cholesterols is another steroid. In fact,

the word steroid was coined in 1926 to refer to compounds like the sterols (as

in cholesterol).

If you are now saying that HC has done nothing for you

whatsoever, I would suggest you talk with Dr Peatfield about this. You should

not be taking HC if your body doesn't need it. I feel that you are still

feeling unwell because your levothyroxine is far too low, but that is my

personal opinion. I don't think you can blame HC for causing your anxiety or as

being the cause of the need for the prescribing of any of the other drugs you are

now taking. If it is doing nothing for you, why would you wish to continue

using it while your thyroid gets back to normal? The safe dose is not 20mgs,

the safe dose is the one needed to replace the amount of cortisol your adrenals

are not making.  20 mgs is only a physiological dose.

I feel you are expecting to be made better too quickly . As

Dr Lam says, " …adrenal recovery is a process

akin to running a marathon. The process is long, but it can be done easily and

painlessly, one step at a time. Most will find some improvement in a matter of

weeks, depending on the degree of pre-existing damage and the clinical skills

of the health professional. Because the amount of hormonal balancing is

intricate and is highly sensitive, the process take anywhere from 3 months to 3

years under the best of hands. It is a long marathon, and recovery should not

be expected in a matter of weeks. Frustration and disappointments are common

and normal. Patience is key. During the recovery process, most, if not all,

will go through a roller coaster type ride with advances and setbacks " .

Sheila

HC has done NOTHING for me, I

feel no benefit whatsoever, all it has done is put my blood sugar up so

am not happy to keep upping it when it is doing that, yes I told DR P I had

reduced it, since starting it I have become anxious and as you know been

prescribed a number of other drugs as a consequence, it is a steriod, we all

know that. I am going to continue with it while my thryoid gets back to where

it was, but after that I dont know, the safe dose is 20mg, I worry that it

will shut my adrenals down and they wont ever pick up again and work on their

own

_,___

[Guest guest]

We're all different. As you know the Cortef is helping me tremendously

but I guess it's just part of a huge jigsaw. It's taken lots of false

starts, trying different dosages of Armour, DHEA, NAX, Serenity etc etc

to find the right combination and I may not even be there yet!

My understanding is that Dr P only recommends enough HC to allow our

poor stressed adrenals time to recover, so I'm happy to go with that,

afterall, like T3, T4, progesterone etc, we're only putting back what

our bodies are short of.

I was speaking to a retired heart surgeon the other week, who frankly

amazed me when he admitted that most of his colleagues don't have a

clue about adrenal/auto-immune problems, which is why he is now

devoting his time now to a support group for sufferers in our local

area.

Pen x

[Guest guest]

I agree it is probably doing nothing for me because my thyroid is low thats why I will continue with it until the thyroid picks up, I am not blaming it for causing my anxiety, the fact of taking it gave me the anxiety, bit like a vicious circle. I now dont take the diazapan or the beta blocker, am just taking the AD and T4 and HC. The Ad will deal with the anxiety and depression that the low thyroid has caused me to fall victim to again, I dont want to be taking a cocktail of drugs and am sensible enough not to. I have found it very diificult to find a dose of HC that works but after reading and reasearch I have found that while I have low thyroid I wont feel any better with it.

Hi

Many hormones, body constituents, and drugs are steroids. The term steroid may carry many meanings. Steroids may refer to the corticosteroid drugs such as prednisone used to reduce swelling, pain, and other symptoms of inflammation. Vitamin D is a steroid, and this is necessary for normal health. The male hormone testosterone and its derivatives are steroids with anabolic effects that can be used medically (or illicitly) to build up muscle mass. We are not talking about anabolic steroids and would never recommend anabolic steroids for treating adrenals. Did you know that cholesterols is another steroid. In fact, the word steroid was coined in 1926 to refer to compounds like the sterols (as in cholesterol) .

If you are now saying that HC has done nothing for you whatsoever, I would suggest you talk with Dr Peatfield about this. You should not be taking HC if your body doesn't need it. I feel that you are still feeling unwell because your levothyroxine is far too low, but that is my personal opinion. I don't think you can blame HC for causing your anxiety or as being the cause of the need for the prescribing of any of the other drugs you are now taking. If it is doing nothing for you, why would you wish to continue using it while your thyroid gets back to normal? The safe dose is not 20mgs, the safe dose is the one needed to replace the amount of cortisol your adrenals are not making. 20 mgs is only a physiological dose. Sheila

HC has done NOTHING for me, I feel no benefit whatsoever, all it has done is put my blood sugar up so am not happy to keep upping it when it is doing that, yes I told DR P I had reduced it, since starting it I have become anxious and as you know been prescribed a number of other drugs as a consequence, it is a steriod, we all know that. I am going to continue with it while my thryoid gets back to where it was, but after that I dont know, the safe dose is 20mg, I worry that it will shut my adrenals down and they wont ever pick up again and work on their own

_,___

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Dawn

>

> I would suggest that if the people on the 's disease forum

are not

> taking any higher dose other than 20 mgs HC, that this could be the

reason

> for the members not being well on there.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

Hi Sheila

I think there might be some confusion here between the 's

people and the ones who post on the other Adrenal list some of who

use massively dangerous doses of steroids and yet aren't well.

The ones who have s are only using 15mg h/c and have no

adrenal function at all are very physically active and fit, something

I was amazed about but I certainly learned from them that just

keeping upping a steroid isn't necessarily the answer to our health

issues there could well be something else going on eg viral or severe

yeast issues.

Pam

[Guest guest]

So let me get this straight, the people on the addisons forum report

that after new research, their doctors have reduced the maximum dose

which they believe is necessary to make them well. Then these

patients are still complaining they feel unwell... now where have I

heard a tale like that before ; )

Leah x

>

> Hi Dawn

>

> I would suggest that if the people on the 's disease forum

are not

> taking any higher dose other than 20 mgs HC, that this could be the

reason

> for the members not being well on there.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

> As for none of them being well on there, I suspect the ones who got

> well no longer go on the forum lol.

>

>

>

>

>

> _,_._,___

>

[Guest guest]

> I think there might be some confusion here between the 's

> people and the ones who post on the other Adrenal list some of who

> use massively dangerous doses of steroids and yet aren't well.

Could you provide a link to the 's list please Pam? I'm very

interested in how folk who are at the extreme end of AF cope with it.

Is it possible to have access to it if you don't have s?

Thanks

[Guest guest]

What would you call a massive dose of steriod?

-> I think there might be some confusion here between the 's > people and the ones who post on the other Adrenal list some of who > use massively dangerous doses of steroids and yet aren't well.Could you provide a link to the 's list please Pam? I'm very interested in how folk who are at the extreme end of AF cope with it. Is it possible to have access to it if you don't have s? Thanks

[Guest guest]

What is the AD you are taking and how much?

Sheila

[Guest guest]

>

Could you provide a link to the 's list please Pam? I'm very

> interested in how folk who are at the extreme end of AF cope with it.

> Is it possible to have access to it if you don't have s?

>

> Thanks

>

>

Hi

Here is the link I don't think its a problem to join the list to read

and ask questions =

s_Disease/?yguid=178186965

BW

Pam

[Guest guest]

Hi Pam, I thought the confusion was (from Dawn's post) that it

was the people on the 's disease forum who do not appear to be betting

better on 20mgs HC, or did you mean the NTH Adrenal forum Dawn? I certainly

agree 100% that people should not keep putting up their dose of HC if they are

not getting better on the dose they are on and that if this is the case, in the

same way as thyroid supplementation not working, there is something else going

on that requires investigation.

Sheila

Hi Sheila

I think there might be some confusion here between the 's

people and the ones who post on the other Adrenal list some of who

use massively dangerous doses of steroids and yet aren't well.

The ones who have s are only using 15mg h/c and have no

adrenal function at all are very physically active and fit, something

I was amazed about but I certainly learned from them that just

keeping upping a steroid isn't necessarily the answer to our health

issues there could well be something else going on eg viral or severe

yeast issues.

Pam

[Guest guest]

Hi again Shiela

I think I might have missed the point.

I was reading an s forum due to pigmentation I had been having

and trying to decide if it was just choasma or adrenal and I saw the

doses of hc these people with supposed diagnosed s which I

believe means it is totally clapped out were on around 20mg per day hc.

here is the forum I was looking at

http://www.healthboards.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?f=jump=Jump+to+Board

However I also bore in mind that as we are in the proess of speeding

up our metabolisms we may be needing more as a consequence of that so

I was pretty open minded about it, even though I did worry a little

about the protocols for taking something like 40mg extra when under

stress as I have no idea whatsoever how much we pump out under stress,

but I trust they (Val, , Lee & co,) and Dr P know MUCH more about

this than I do. I also said I didnt have a clue whether these patients

had primary or secondary s either which might effect the

treatments? I am very clueless about it, was just interested in their

treatments as I have been getting darker patches lately and also vitiligo.

I was just concurring that I had seen s patients posting these

20mg types of figures too. I aren't sure whether they are feeling well

or not :S

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

> Here is the link I don't think its a problem to join the list to

read and ask questions =

>

> s_Disease/?

yguid=178186965

Thanks Pam. I found your original post very thought provoking.

x

[Guest guest]

> here is the forum I was looking at

>

> http://www.healthboards.com/boards/forumdisplay.php?

f=jump=Jump+to+Board

Thanks Dawn. I see that it's easy to register with them so I will do

that.

x

[Guest guest]

I am taking citalopram, one of the SSRI groups, this will be my fourth! Prozac was awful and took ages to work, I have started low on 10mg, my choice, as in the first few weeks they increase anxiety, then after a week I will go upto 20mg, that has always been my usual dose, have never needed anymore. Citalopram is meant to be a good one for anxiety but its hit and miss if you find one that works for you. Why do you ask Sheila?---

What is the AD you are taking and how much?

Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

For a sensible view of adrenal

dosing see Jeffries’ book ‘ Safe uses of Cortisol’

Stenning

Re:

Please read re amount of steroid needed

I think reading the US

adrenal site is quite alarming too, they seem to encourage people to take

more and more steriod and always talk of stress doesing, I think its

dangerous and none of them seem in a very good way anyway, I have reduced

mine down to 25mg and will go back down to 20mg

Hi Sheila and all

Just wanted to post my concerns about the amount of steroid many are

taking and my reasons for these concerns.

I have been reading and posting on the 's list for quite a

while now to try and learn as much as I can about the problems of

having no adrenal function. Recently I asked how much steroid were

people taking who had adrenal insufficiency and thyroid disease.

The first 2 who responded amazed me by telling me they were on 15 mg

h/c a day, one had no adrenals whatsover, they had been removed

because of a tumour if I remember correctly and the other one was a

personal trainer who was very active and 15mg was sufficient for them

both to feel well.

The highest amount of h/c anybody was taking was 35mg h/c but they

were hoping to lower this. The general consensus now is that 20mg of

h/c or 5mg Pred equivalent is sufficient for normal functioning and

that even shortlived stress didn't need any higher dosing.

(Somewhere I have a very detailed report of how during a stressful

event that was shortlived it wasn't necessary to take anymore steroid

than 20mg h/c when comparing the level of cortisol that a healthy

person has during the same stressful event).

I have also read widely about what amount of cortisol the body

normally makes in a healthy person and in the latest studies it is

quoted as 20-30 mg. This means we have to question where is all the

rest of the cortisol going for people taking more than this amount?

From my personal experience I have often felt that I needed more

steroid on many days but I don't go over 25mg h/c with 22.5mg being

my usual dose. However now that I have been treating a yeast called

Geotrichum spieces that has been found in my gut following a

Comprehensive Stool Analysis with Genova Diagnostics the past couple

of days I just haven't needed more than 5mg Pred. My temperature has

been better and so has my energy, its just like I am taking a lot

more steroid but I am not, in fact I am taking less. I have been

following a strict diet of no sugar, no fruit and no wheat with carbs

about 65 gms a day, it has been hard because on some days I have felt

so ill and have had really bad migraines for many of the days but I

knew this would be die-off and a good sign that what I am taking is

working.

The only conclusion that I can come to is that there is likely to be

something else wrong with our bodies if we need more steroid and we

should get this checked out. Unfortunately a GP isn't likely to be

very helpful cos they only check for Candida and my result shows that

there are many other types of yeasts that mimic Candida. I always

had a negative result from my GP yet I knew there was something

radically wrong with my gut.

Also I had a permanent discharge and this was another clue I had a

systemic problem.

It is highly likely that yeast is a problem for many of us because of

our Western diet and I used to be a carbohydrate addict for many,

many years. Also I was mercury poisoned and this plays havoc with

our immune systems.

Pam

[Guest guest]

Thanks I have sometime ago

Hi ,

For a sensible view of adrenal dosing see Jeffries’ book ‘ Safe uses of Cortisol’

Stenning

Re: [thyroidpatientadvo cacy] Please read re amount of steroid needed

I think reading the US adrenal site is quite alarming too, they seem to encourage people to take more and more steriod and always talk of stress doesing, I think its dangerous and none of them seem in a very good way anyway, I have reduced mine down to 25mg and will go back down to 20mg

Hi Sheila and allJust wanted to post my concerns about the amount of steroid many are taking and my reasons for these concerns.I have been reading and posting on the 's list for quite a while now to try and learn as much as I can about the problems of having no adrenal function. Recently I asked how much steroid were people taking who had adrenal insufficiency and thyroid disease.The first 2 who responded amazed me by telling me they were on 15 mg h/c a day, one had no adrenals whatsover, they had been removed because of a tumour if I remember correctly and the other one was a personal trainer who was very active and 15mg was sufficient for them both to feel well.The highest amount of h/c anybody was taking was 35mg h/c but they were hoping to lower this. The general consensus now is that 20mg of

h/c or 5mg Pred equivalent is sufficient for normal functioning and that even shortlived stress didn't need any higher dosing. (Somewhere I have a very detailed report of how during a stressful event that was shortlived it wasn't necessary to take anymore steroid than 20mg h/c when comparing the level of cortisol that a healthy person has during the same stressful event).I have also read widely about what amount of cortisol the body normally makes in a healthy person and in the latest studies it is quoted as 20-30 mg. This means we have to question where is all the rest of the cortisol going for people taking more than this amount?From my personal experience I have often felt that I needed more steroid on many days but I don't go over 25mg h/c with 22.5mg being my usual dose. However now that I have been treating a yeast called Geotrichum spieces that has been found in my gut following a

Comprehensive Stool Analysis with Genova Diagnostics the past couple of days I just haven't needed more than 5mg Pred. My temperature has been better and so has my energy, its just like I am taking a lot more steroid but I am not, in fact I am taking less. I have been following a strict diet of no sugar, no fruit and no wheat with carbs about 65 gms a day, it has been hard because on some days I have felt so ill and have had really bad migraines for many of the days but I knew this would be die-off and a good sign that what I am taking is working.The only conclusion that I can come to is that there is likely to be something else wrong with our bodies if we need more steroid and we should get this checked out. Unfortunately a GP isn't likely to be very helpful cos they only check for Candida and my result shows that there are many other types of yeasts that mimic Candida. I always had a

negative result from my GP yet I knew there was something radically wrong with my gut.Also I had a permanent discharge and this was another clue I had a systemic problem.It is highly likely that yeast is a problem for many of us because of our Western diet and I used to be a carbohydrate addict for many, many years. Also I was mercury poisoned and this plays havoc with our immune systems.Pam

[Guest guest]

DHEA is an anabolic steroid. I was discussing this with my endo recently & he confirmed this.

Val

We are not talking about anabolic steroids and would never recommend anabolic steroids for treating adrenals.

[Guest guest]

some people on here have been told they may benefit from DHEA, me included, as mine was low, now I know what sort of steriod it is I wont be taking it, thanks Val for that information

DHEA is an anabolic steroid. I was discussing this with my endo recently & he confirmed this.

Val

We are not talking about anabolic steroids and would never recommend anabolic steroids for treating adrenals.

[Guest guest]

I just wanted to know because some AD's effect the

conversion of thyroxine.

Sheila

___________________________

I am taking citalopram, one

of the SSRI groups, this will be my fourth! Prozac was awful and took ages to

work, I have started low on 10mg, my choice, as in the first few weeks they

increase anxiety, then after a week I will go upto 20mg, that has always been

my usual dose, have never needed anymore. Citalopram is meant to be a good

one for anxiety but its hit and miss if you find one that works for you. Why

do you ask Sheila?

---

What is the AD you are taking

and how much?

Sheila

___

[Guest guest]

Hi - just because DHEA is an anabolic steroid, this does

not mean you should not be taking it if your DHEA is low. You should read and

find the facts. DHEA converts into many hormones. Male and female hormones, and

many other hormones, including andostenedone. First, through these other

hormones, DHEA expresses typical male and female hormone activity, as well as

enhances the immune system. One of the ways it reinforces immunity is by

converting into the very immune-enhancing androstenediol and androstenetriol -

Second, DHEA appears to have actions on its own probably through DHEA receptors

in target cells, in particular endothelium cells of blood vessels and immune

cells as suggested in several studies. It is believed that DHEA boosts the

immune system and protects blood vessels against atherosclerosis partially by

binding to these receptors.

The levels of DHEA quickly declines with age: there is a 1-5%

reduction per year in adults after age 30. At age 70 -80, DHEA levels have

dropped to a mere 15-20% of levels at 20 to 30 year- old.

Signs and symptoms of DHEA deficiency  occur more or less

permanently throughout the day. In women, the signs may mildly increase with

physical activity (when muscles are used) and can concern most body tissues,

although with some predominance in axillary and pubic areas. These show through

hair loss.

If you are low in DHEA, you should consider DHEA

supplementation.

Sheila

some people on here have been

told they may benefit from DHEA, me included, as mine was low, now I know

what sort of steriod it is I wont be taking it, thanks Val for that

information

DHEA

is an anabolic steroid. I was discussing this with my endo recently

& he confirmed this.

Va.

.._,___

[Guest guest]

Yes and the main one is prozac, which up until recently I didnt know about and I took it for a year! It contains flourine or flouride, thats probably why I didnt do so well on it.

There isnt much about SSRI's that I dont know about, I have done a lot of research over the yrs

I just wanted to know because some AD's effect the conversion of thyroxine.

Sheila

____________ _________ ______

I am taking citalopram, one of the SSRI groups, this will be my fourth! Prozac was awful and took ages to work, I have started low on 10mg, my choice, as in the first few weeks they increase anxiety, then after a week I will go upto 20mg, that has always been my usual dose, have never needed anymore. Citalopram is meant to be a good one for anxiety but its hit and miss if you find one that works for you. Why do you ask Sheila?---

What is the AD you are taking and how much?

Sheila

___