Re: Sorry, I'm going to moan...again...

[Guest guest]

Hi Leah

Have you tried Serenity. It's helped me massively with PMT etc....

And lucky you! Off to the Caribbean. It'll do you the world of good.

Have a pina colada for me!

Take care

Pen x

[Guest guest]

Hi Leah

Cheer up, lucky you going cruising in the Caribbean, I'd swop places

with you cos I've agreed to go skiing in Bulgeria for a week

starting the day after boxing day. I hate the cold and have never

attempted anything like this before and its cost hubby an absolute

fortune in thermals and suitable clothing and footwear to keep me

warm and I'll bet I'm still cold.

Chris

>

> Hi all,

>

> I'm feeling really fed up today, and really losing faith that I

will

> be well for any length of time.

>

> I've been teetering between hypo and hyper symptoms since March,

> desperately trying to balance myself out, with glimpses of feeling

> well appearing for all too short a time...This is despite various

> combinations of T4 and armour together and alone, and now T3.

>

> I finally managed to see Dr P at the end of November and he

confirmed

> I should continue pred, and drop the armour to 1 1/2 (had been

taking

> 3), and then after a week add in T3 12.5 at first, then 12.5 x2.

>

> Last week was my 12.5 week, and though I was OK at first, I began

to

> feel very tired and foggy and achey getting quite poorly again

this

> weekend. I assumed this was because my T4 level had begun to

drop. I

> took the 2nd 12.5 dose yesterday and started to feel better within

3

> hours.

>

> However I have felt awful again today, my heart has been pounding

(as

> before it's happening at 1030 and again at 1300-1500) and I have

been

> feeling pretty hyper, then after it wore off at 1500, I began to

feel

> tired and achey again, though in my body in general it's akin to

that

> tiredness you get when you have been through the mill emotionally,

> just totally drained not tired.

>

> I just am losing faith that I am ever going to be able to be

better

> on anything, I thought that T3 would be the answer. Does anyone

have

> any advice?

>

> I am due on my period in a couple of days (which is probably why I

am

> sooo upset about this today!) so not sure if this is part of it?

>

> I am going on a cruise roudn the carribean on Boxing day and I am

so

> worried I am goign to be too ill to enjoy it, am starting to dread

it.

>

> Sorry to be so negative and moany but feeling really low today...

> Leah x

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

I am lucky going away, and I know it, I'm just feeling soooo fed up

with this rollercoaster!

I went skiing before, and it is really good fun (tho the apres ski

was always my favourite)...but it is pretty tiring...

Try and get hold of some of those things that heat up when you click

them , you can use them to keep your hands warm (try Boot the

chem??)...

Leah xxx

> >

> > Hi all,

> >

> > I'm feeling really fed up today, and really losing faith that I

> will

> > be well for any length of time.

> >

> > I've been teetering between hypo and hyper symptoms since March,

> > desperately trying to balance myself out, with glimpses of

feeling

> > well appearing for all too short a time...This is despite various

> > combinations of T4 and armour together and alone, and now T3.

> >

> > I finally managed to see Dr P at the end of November and he

> confirmed

> > I should continue pred, and drop the armour to 1 1/2 (had been

> taking

> > 3), and then after a week add in T3 12.5 at first, then 12.5 x2.

> >

> > Last week was my 12.5 week, and though I was OK at first, I began

> to

> > feel very tired and foggy and achey getting quite poorly again

> this

> > weekend. I assumed this was because my T4 level had begun to

> drop. I

> > took the 2nd 12.5 dose yesterday and started to feel better

within

> 3

> > hours.

> >

> > However I have felt awful again today, my heart has been pounding

> (as

> > before it's happening at 1030 and again at 1300-1500) and I have

> been

> > feeling pretty hyper, then after it wore off at 1500, I began to

> feel

> > tired and achey again, though in my body in general it's akin to

> that

> > tiredness you get when you have been through the mill

emotionally,

> > just totally drained not tired.

> >

> > I just am losing faith that I am ever going to be able to be

> better

> > on anything, I thought that T3 would be the answer. Does anyone

> have

> > any advice?

> >

> > I am due on my period in a couple of days (which is probably why

I

> am

> > sooo upset about this today!) so not sure if this is part of it?

> >

> > I am going on a cruise roudn the carribean on Boxing day and I am

> so

> > worried I am goign to be too ill to enjoy it, am starting to

dread

> it.

> >

> > Sorry to be so negative and moany but feeling really low today...

> > Leah x

> >

>

[Guest guest]

What's the situation with your adrenals Leah?

Remind me, what adrenal support are you on and did you have stable

av, temps before this last T3 increase?

Mo

> Hi all,

>

> I'm feeling really fed up today, and really losing faith that I

will

> be well for any length of time.

>

> I've been teetering between hypo and hyper symptoms since March,

> desperately trying to balance myself out, with glimpses of feeling

> well appearing for all too short a time...This is despite various

> combinations of T4 and armour together and alone, and now T3.

>

> I finally managed to see Dr P at the end of November and he

confirmed

> I should continue pred, and drop the armour to 1 1/2 (had been

taking

> 3), and then after a week add in T3 12.5 at first, then 12.5 x2.

>

> Last week was my 12.5 week, and though I was OK at first, I began

to

> feel very tired and foggy and achey getting quite poorly again this

> weekend. I assumed this was because my T4 level had begun to drop.

I

> took the 2nd 12.5 dose yesterday and started to feel better within

3

> hours.

>

> However I have felt awful again today, my heart has been pounding

(as

> before it's happening at 1030 and again at 1300-1500) and I have

been

> feeling pretty hyper, then after it wore off at 1500, I began to

feel

> tired and achey again, though in my body in general it's akin to

that

> tiredness you get when you have been through the mill emotionally,

> just totally drained not tired.

>

> I just am losing faith that I am ever going to be able to be better

> on anything, I thought that T3 would be the answer. Does anyone

have

> any advice?

>

> I am due on my period in a couple of days (which is probably why I

am

> sooo upset about this today!) so not sure if this is part of it?

>

> I am going on a cruise roudn the carribean on Boxing day and I am

so

> worried I am goign to be too ill to enjoy it, am starting to dread

it.

>

> Sorry to be so negative and moany but feeling really low today...

> Leah x

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Pen,

To be honest I don't really have PMT as such, maybe a little tearful

but nothing too much - I spoke to Dr P about estrogen dominance but he

didn't feel it was my problem...

If I can afford it (the cruise is in dollars) I will have a pina colada

for everyone! How many pina coladas is that Sheila??

Leah x

>

> Hi Leah

> Have you tried Serenity. It's helped me massively with PMT etc....

>

> And lucky you! Off to the Caribbean. It'll do you the world of good.

> Have a pina colada for me!

>

> Take care

> Pen x

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mo,

Well the situation is that I am taking the pred (5), and occasionally

stress dosing, though to be honest I am pretty scared of stress

dosing, and don't really understand when I am supposed to do it? Oh,

and I am also taking NAX x2.

My basal temps have been fairly steady, though the evening ones have

been quite erratic - not sure if that is what you would expect anyway?

Do you think it's my adrenals Mo? I know you take T3 - have you had

similar problems?

I have had a sort of semi cold with a lingering cough which sems to

only be present at night or in the mornning, so maybe I should have

been stress dosing? Thinking about it, I did do a presentation to a

load of grumpy Urology consultants today and I was really nervous -

do you think I should have stress dosed?

Is it possible to stress dose with HC while taking prednisone?

(I have both - am turning into a pharmacy!!)...

Leah x

-

> What's the situation with your adrenals Leah?

> Remind me, what adrenal support are you on and did you have stable

> av, temps before this last T3 increase?

> Mo

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

Leah

I'm finding that everytime I increase my armour by 1/2 grain, I

experience a few days of intermittent racing heart rate. I remember

reading on here that taking T3 meds first impacts your heart and then

goes on to affect muscles etc.

What seems to work is splitting the dose into 3 and taking it at

approx 7 hour intervals. Are you taking your T3 all at the same time?

I have found though that the increased heart rate settles down about

2-3 days after I increase the dose if I do this.

Have a lovely time on your holiday!

Marie

[Guest guest]

Hi Marie,

Thanks for that - I didn't realise that would eb the case...

It would make sense I suppose, I will try to split the dose 3 ways (tho

becasue of the tablet set up it may not be easy!!

Thanks

Leah x

>

> Leah

> I'm finding that everytime I increase my armour by 1/2 grain, I

> experience a few days of intermittent racing heart rate. I remember

> reading on here that taking T3 meds first impacts your heart and then

> goes on to affect muscles etc.

>

> What seems to work is splitting the dose into 3 and taking it at

> approx 7 hour intervals. Are you taking your T3 all at the same time?

>

> I have found though that the increased heart rate settles down about

> 2-3 days after I increase the dose if I do this.

>

> Have a lovely time on your holiday!

> Marie

>

[Guest guest]

You might find you really enjoy it though! I went skiing when I was

pretty ill with M E - a bit mad really, but you get fed up of trying

to pander to your illness and having a very restrictive lifestyle.

Anyway, I had some beginners lessons and was then able to use the

nursery slopes. Find somewhere with a travellator or other means of

hauling you up the slope as the really exhausting thing is having to

walk up. I really loved gliding slowly down the slopes, practising my

turns. It was very picturesque and the air was wonderfully fresh.

The food was great too, but we were in France.

My resort had other activities - cinema, shops, cafes, etc, so I kept

to an hour or two of skiing per day and did less strenuous things the

rest of the time. I was pretty warm whilst skiing, but had to put

back on my scarf, hat, gloves etc if I sat for long in an outdoor

cafe. I met up with my friends at mealtimes and didn't attempt to

keep up with them. It was still a very enjoyable holiday.

Miriam

> Cheer up, lucky you going cruising in the Caribbean, I'd swop places

> with you cos I've agreed to go skiing in Bulgeria for a week

> starting the day after boxing day. I hate the cold and have never

> attempted anything like this before and its cost hubby an absolute

> fortune in thermals and suitable clothing and footwear to keep me

> warm and I'll bet I'm still cold.

[Guest guest]

Leah

- Am I correct in assuming you are taking 1 1/2 grains Armour and 25mcgs T3

daily? It sounds as if you are taking too much T3 and your body is unable to absorbed

it. T3 peaks in the blood after a couple of hours, and the times you give look

as if this is what is happening to you. If you are taking the amount of T3 your

body requires, you wouldn't feel these peaks, but if taking too much, you

would. If this was me, I would stop the T3 for a couple of days but keep on

with your Armour and see how you feel. Remind me what happened when you were

taking Armour with the addition of T4 (and how much) and what happened when you

were taking 3 grains of Armour alone.

I

wonder whether it might be better to start using the Cortisol rather than

Prednisolone. Are you sure your adrenals were boosted sufficiently before

starting thyroid hormone replacement, because if they have not been, you will

continue to get the symptoms that you are. Do you stress dose with prednisolone

(I honestly don't know) but I know you can do this with Cortisol though you

need to take cortisol several times during the day and Pred. only once as it is

long acting.

What

were your TFT's on Armour (3 grains) and why do you say you assume your T4 is

dropping?

Sorry

for so many questions.

Luv -

Sheila

However I have felt awful again today, my heart has been pounding (as

before it's happening at 1030 and again at 1300-1500) and I have been

feeling pretty hyper, then after it wore off at 1500, I began to feel

tired and achey again, though in my body in general it's akin to that

tiredness you get when you have been through the mill emotionally,

just totally drained not tired.

[Guest guest]

Hi Miram

I am planning on having a go as I have never pandered to

hypothyroidism, its just something I've never contemplated doing.

Still with the stuff we have bought I will be like a small michalin

man so if I go down the slope on my bum at least I will be well

padded.

The reason we are going to Bulgaria is because Hubby went there

earlier this year on a Corporate do and it is apparently good for

beginners and it is next to the town, so if I dont fancy doing it

every day, I can either walk around the shops, or sit outside the

cafe at the top of the mountain and watch. It does have a ski lift.

Chris

> > Cheer up, lucky you going cruising in the Caribbean, I'd swop

places

> > with you cos I've agreed to go skiing in Bulgeria for a week

> > starting the day after boxing day. I hate the cold and have

never

> > attempted anything like this before and its cost hubby an

absolute

> > fortune in thermals and suitable clothing and footwear to keep

me

> > warm and I'll bet I'm still cold.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Leah

I am so sorry you have taken a turn for the worse, you know I as well

as worrying about you I am also interested in how you are going with

the armour T3 mix. You sound as though you are having similar symptoms

to me on armour only at the mo, yipes.

One thing about T3 is if you leave it alone as Shiela has suggested it

gets out of the system pretty quick doesn't it? I am still having a

pretty pounding heart and my bp is up. It seems once something goes

wrong in the treatment it takes a while to get back on track doesn't

it? I am sure you will get back on track and get it right. Take heart and

ENJOY ENJOY your holiday. The only cruise I have ever been on was the

Oriana around the Med, it was wonderful, and the Pina Coladas were

lovely on board that ship, really creamy yum. Have another one for me

(you will be rolling around drinking for the whole of the forum

members hic).

Hope you can work out if it is adrenal or not hon

take care and God bless

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Your body needs extra cortisol at times of stress Leah and will

produce this naturally if the adrenals are healthy. Up to about 200

mg I have heard though I doubt anyone really knows for sure somehow.

So when you have an infection or a presentation or bad news, a fall,

anything that is a stress on the system, then you NEED extra.

If we don't supply that extra cortisol ourselves, then we go into an

adrenal dip to varying degrees depending our cortisol reserves and

the severity and/or length of the stressful period.

When our cortisol dips this this, it means that the thyroid we are

taking/making has no cortisol to escort it into the cells so we go

hypo and our average daily temps plummet.

In the process we feel the effects of low cortisol and thyroid which

is unusable by the cells i.e. shaky, nauseous, rapid pulse, anxiety,

fatigue etc. etc.

You need to stress dose as soon as you notice a cold, immediately if

not sooner

With a presentation where you might expect to feel a bit strained

then we can stress dose in advance and it is tricky with Pred I know

as I used to take it myself for a long time Leah. I am not sure about

the answer to your question as to whether you could use both h.c and

Pred. I suppose you could, I will check that for you if you like?

I think the basal temps only tell you about the state of your thyroid

Leah and the average daily temps as per www.drrind.com tell you

whether your adrenals are in good enough nick to take a T3. I believe

T3 is harder on the adrenals than Armour so it makes sense to ensure

you have a good adrenal situation before increasing. A good adrenaL

status would be a daily average (over 5 days) that deviates less

than .1 C or .2 F. You simply take three temps, one three hours after

rising, then three hours later and again a further three hours later.

It helps to keep to the same time of day, I do noon, 3 pm and 6 pm

for convenience. You add them up, divide by three to get the average

and log that on the graph supplied on Dr Rind's site and you get five

days' worth and then you can see if you are stable or not.

What was your original ASI like Leah? I am wondering what the basis

was for settling on 5 mg Pred? I am thinking you may need higher

amounts earlier in the day of cortisol as this following the natural

rhythm whereas the Pred gives you a steady dose all day and all night

I think which may leave you with too little at certain times of the

day and perhaps too much at others?

Hang on in there, you're almost there!

Mo

>

> Hi Mo,

>

> Well the situation is that I am taking the pred (5), and

occasionally

> stress dosing, though to be honest I am pretty scared of stress

> dosing, and don't really understand when I am supposed to do it?

Oh,

> and I am also taking NAX x2.

>

> My basal temps have been fairly steady, though the evening ones have

> been quite erratic - not sure if that is what you would expect

anyway?

>

> Do you think it's my adrenals Mo? I know you take T3 - have you had

> similar problems?

>

> I have had a sort of semi cold with a lingering cough which sems to

> only be present at night or in the mornning, so maybe I should have

> been stress dosing? Thinking about it, I did do a presentation to a

> load of grumpy Urology consultants today and I was really nervous -

> do you think I should have stress dosed?

>

> Is it possible to stress dose with HC while taking prednisone?

> (I have both - am turning into a pharmacy!!)...

>

> Leah x

>

> -

> > What's the situation with your adrenals Leah?

> > Remind me, what adrenal support are you on and did you have stable

> > av, temps before this last T3 increase?

> > Mo

>

>

>

> [Edit Abbrev Mod]

>

[Guest guest]

MODERATED TO REMOVE MESSAGES PREVIOUSLY READ. PLEASE LEAVE JUST A PORTION OF

WHAT YOU ARE RESPONDING TO. LUV - SHEILA

__________________________

Yikes Leah! Are you taking the T3 in one single dose?

If yes, that would certainly be too much for the adrenals as Marie

says (Hi Marie!)

I take my T4 four times a day with my cortisol.

Mo

p.s. and incidentally you can stress dose for raises if need be.

>

> Thanks for that - I didn't realise that would eb the case...

>

> It would make sense I suppose, I will try to split the dose 3 ways

(tho

> becasue of the tablet set up it may not be easy!!

[Guest guest]

>> Leah - Am I correct in assuming you are taking 1 1/2 grains Armour and> 25mcgs T3 daily? It sounds as if you are taking too much T3 and your body is> unable to absorbed it. T3 peaks in the blood after a couple of hours, and> the times you give look as if this is what is happening to you. If you are> taking the amount of T3 your body requires, you wouldn't feel these peaks,> but if taking too much, you would.

Hi Sheila, yes I am taking 1.5 of armour and 25 of T3. The funny thing is, is that I have had this issue even beofre taking the T3 supplement, when only taking 1 1/2 of armour... The only I haven't had it was when I was on T4 (tho I had other problems then) and when I was taking armour at night...

If this was me, I would stop the T3 for a> couple of days but keep on with your Armour and see how you feel. Remind me> what happened when you were taking Armour with the addition of T4 (and how> much) and what happened when you were taking 3 grains of Armour alone.

When I was taking 2 1/2 gr Armour and 25mcg of T4, I was feeling good for a while then felt really toxic all of a sudden, with similar problems as now, blood tests showed bith my T4 and T3 below range at that time. So the assumption was that it was my adrenals, that's when I started on the pred. Whe n I was on 2 1.2 armour alone, I still had hypo symptoms in particular tiredness, and aches in my joints. When I was on 3 grains of armour, I had the same problems I am having now - hypo and hyper mixed symptoms.> > > > I wonder whether it might be better to start using the Cortisol rather than> Prednisolone. Are you sure your adrenals were boosted sufficiently before> starting thyroid hormone replacement, because if they have not been, you> will continue to get the symptoms that you are. Do you stress dose with> prednisolone (I honestly don't know) but I know you can do this with> Cortisol though you need to take cortisol several times during the day and> Pred. only once as it is long acting. Yes I have wondered this too. I had some pred already, and also hate multi dosing during the day (I forget!), so at the time I was taking all my meds at night - pred seemed to be good as it was once daily, but I wonder if the flexibility to add extra when req. wold be better (and of course it's natural. Dr P id say I could stress dose pred by taking half again, but to be honest I am not sure what constitutes the jkind/level of stress which would justify an increase.> > What were your TFT's on Armour (3 grains) and why do you say you assume your> T4 is dropping?TFTs were done on 7/10/08 when I was on 2 grains plus 25mcg thyroxine, and were TSH 0.06 (0.35-4.5), T4 10.2 (11-26) and T3 4 (3.9-6.8). I only assume T4 is dropping as I have halved my dose of armour, and therefore my only intake of T4 (I don't think I have much if any endogenous production)... Also had lots of extreme tiredness and aches and fog back on the weekend before I upped T3, so as had halved dose a couple of weeks before, I assume it was because T4 had begun to drop.> > > Sorry for so many questions. That's OK, thank you for helping me!! I have felt a bit better today, so maybe it's just my body getting used to it...> > > > Luv - Sheila > > > However I have felt awful again today, my heart has been pounding (as > before it's happening at 1030 and again at 1300-1500) and I have been > feeling pretty hyper, then after it wore off at 1500, I began to feel > tired and achey again, though in my body in general it's akin to that > tiredness you get when you have been through the mill emotionally, > just totally drained not tired.>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sorry wasn't clear here - I am taking it in 2 doses am and lunch,

but was interested in the idea of splitting into 3...

Leah x

> >

> > Leah

> > I'm finding that everytime I increase my armour by 1/2 grain, I

> > experience a few days of intermittent racing heart rate. I

remember

> > reading on here that taking T3 meds first impacts your heart and

then

> > goes on to affect muscles etc.

> >

> > What seems to work is splitting the dose into 3 and taking it at

> > approx 7 hour intervals. Are you taking your T3 all at the same

time?

> >

> > I have found though that the increased heart rate settles down

about

> > 2-3 days after I increase the dose if I do this.

> >

> > Have a lovely time on your holiday!

> > Marie

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No, No!

Am just atking in it 2 doses, badly phrased!! I might try 3 or 4

dose 2 moro!

Leah x

>

> MODERATED TO REMOVE MESSAGES PREVIOUSLY READ. PLEASE LEAVE JUST A

PORTION OF WHAT YOU ARE RESPONDING TO. LUV - SHEILA

> __________________________

>

> Yikes Leah! Are you taking the T3 in one single dose?

> If yes, that would certainly be too much for the adrenals as Marie

> says (Hi Marie!)

> I take my T4 four times a day with my cortisol.

>

> Mo

>

> p.s. and incidentally you can stress dose for raises if need be.

>

>

> >

> > Thanks for that - I didn't realise that would eb the case...

> >

> > It would make sense I suppose, I will try to split the dose 3 ways

> (tho

> > becasue of the tablet set up it may not be easy!!

>

[Guest guest]

Well that sounds great! I do Bulgarian dancing with the Society for

International Folk Dancing and I love the Bulgarian music. What we do

tends to be not much more energetic than walking as most members are

pensioners, but I'm sure there is more energetic stuff to see. I hope

you have a lovely holiday.

Miriam

> I am planning on having a go as I have never pandered to

> hypothyroidism, its just something I've never contemplated doing.

> Still with the stuff we have bought I will be like a small michalin

> man so if I go down the slope on my bum at least I will be well

> padded.

>

> The reason we are going to Bulgaria is because Hubby went there

> earlier this year on a Corporate do and it is apparently good for

> beginners and it is next to the town, so if I dont fancy doing it

> every day, I can either walk around the shops, or sit outside the

> cafe at the top of the mountain and watch. It does have a ski lift.

[Guest guest]

>> Your body needs extra cortisol at times of stress Leah and will > produce this naturally if the adrenals are healthy. Up to about 200 > mg I have heard though I doubt anyone really knows for sure somehow.> So when you have an infection or a presentation or bad news, a fall, > anything that is a stress on the system, then you NEED extra.

I never really understood what constitutes stress as far as stress dosing is concerned, so that's really useful... To be honest my job is really stressful, and I wonder if I should be stress dosing every work day... thinking about it almost every time I can think of that I had this, is when I am at work, the only other ones I can think of were at the airport, and visiting the in-laws (believe me they define the very meaning of the word stress!!)

> If we don't supply that extra cortisol ourselves, then we go into an > adrenal dip to varying degrees depending our cortisol reserves and > the severity and/or length of the stressful period.> When our cortisol dips this this, it means that the thyroid we are > taking/making has no cortisol to escort it into the cells so we go > hypo and our average daily temps plummet.> In the process we feel the effects of low cortisol and thyroid which > is unusable by the cells i.e. shaky, nauseous, rapid pulse, anxiety, > fatigue etc. etc.> You need to stress dose as soon as you notice a cold, immediately if > not sooner

I am definately guilty of trying to get away with not doing it! I guess that has come and bit me in the bottom. Because of my ASI's, I have a fear in the back of my mind that I am doing myself damage, and so am reluctant to stress dose, fearing I am causing myself terrible long term damage..add that to not entirely understandign it, and well, you get the picture...

> With a presentation where you might expect to feel a bit strained > then we can stress dose in advance and it is tricky with Pred I know > as I used to take it myself for a long time Leah. I am not sure about > the answer to your question as to whether you could use both h.c and > Pred. I suppose you could, I will check that for you if you like?

Yes that would be great. I ask as I am reluctant to make any more major changes at the moment, particularly with the holiday coming up, but don't like stress dosing pred...so adding cortisone in may give me a halfway house...

> I think the basal temps only tell you about the state of your thyroid > Leah and the average daily temps as per www.drrind.com tell you > whether your adrenals are in good enough nick to take a T3. I believe > T3 is harder on the adrenals than Armour so it makes sense to ensure > you have a good adrenal situation before increasing. A good adrenaL > status would be a daily average (over 5 days) that deviates less > than .1 C or .2 F. You simply take three temps, one three hours after > rising, then three hours later and again a further three hours later. > It helps to keep to the same time of day, I do noon, 3 pm and 6 pm > for convenience. You add them up, divide by three to get the average > and log that on the graph supplied on Dr Rind's site and you get five > days' worth and then you can see if you are stable or not.

I will definately do that, I have taken morning and evening and they usually drop really dramatically, but have never done this way.

> What was your original ASI like Leah? I am wondering what the basis > was for settling on 5 mg Pred?

I don't think that my ASI is worth the paper it's written on. My clincial signs and symptoms all along have pointed to AF, but for some reason my saliva results were high across the board, strangely I had a blood test that day and that was low in the range (274, range 150 - 700). The ASI did show that of the 4 samplesm, the lunchtime and night samples were less high than the other when compared to the range IYKWIM.

I am thinking you may need higher > amounts earlier in the day of cortisol as this following the natural > rhythm whereas the Pred gives you a steady dose all day and all night > I think which may leave you with too little at certain times of the > day and perhaps too much at others?

I thin perhaps that is a good idea - if I can take the cortisone with pred, then I can stres dose when required, I'd feel less worried about that!

> Hang on in there, you're almost there!

I really hope so, I was contemplating giving up work and going back on T4 only last night I was feeling so upset about it all (steady on!)

Thanks for you help, I really appreicate it (that goes to everyone who ahs replied!)...

Leah x

[Guest guest]

>> Hi Leah> > I am so sorry you have taken a turn for the worse, you know I as well> as worrying about you I am also interested in how you are going with> the armour T3 mix. You sound as though you are having similar symptoms> to me on armour only at the mo, yipes.

Hi Dawn, am having symptoms like me on armour alone too! Yipes is exactly what I thought too... ! Don't worry tho, we are all diff. and I know I am not the only one starting T3 at the momemtn, and nobody else seems to have the same probs...> > One thing about T3 is if you leave it alone as Shiela has suggested it> gets out of the system pretty quick doesn't it? I am still having a> pretty pounding heart and my bp is up. It seems once something goes> wrong in the treatment it takes a while to get back on track doesn't> it? I am sure you will get back on track and get it right.

I did stress dose pred today and I did have the same thing at the same time, but it was much milder.... I think I need to keep an eye on the adrenals, and stick with it for a little bit longer - I haven't really given it a chance... I do have a really sore throat today so maybe my adrenals weren't able to cope with stress, extra T3 and the virus or whatever brewing!

Take heart and > ENJOY ENJOY your holiday. The only cruise I have ever been on was the> Oriana around the Med, it was wonderful, and the Pina Coladas were> lovely on board that ship, really creamy yum. Have another one for me> (you will be rolling around drinking for the whole of the forum> members hic).

I am really looking forward to it, did a sort of mini cruise thing in Egypt and that was good, but this will be the real thing! The Oriana is supposed to be lovely - my inlaws went on that too... I'll deffo have one for you!!

> Hope you can work out if it is adrenal or not hon

Thanks mate, thanks spo much for your support, and don't worry yourself!

Leah xx> take care and God bless> Dawnx>

[Guest guest]

Hi

I went skiing in Bulgaria on a school trip! I was about 15 at the time and it was great fun, cant remember much about the country though, have fun!

Well that sounds great! I do Bulgarian dancing with the Society forInternational Folk Dancing and I love the Bulgarian music. What we dotends to be not much more energetic than walking as most members arepensioners, but I'm sure there is more energetic stuff to see. I hopeyou have a lovely holiday. Miriam> I am planning on having a go as I have never pandered to > hypothyroidism, its just something I've never contemplated doing. > Still with the stuff we have bought I will be like a small michalin > man so if I go down the slope on my bum at least I will be well > padded. > > The reason we are going to Bulgaria is because Hubby went there > earlier this year on a Corporate do and it is

apparently good for > beginners and it is next to the town, so if I dont fancy doing it > every day, I can either walk around the shops, or sit outside the > cafe at the top of the mountain and watch. It does have a ski lift.

[Guest guest]

It sounds like your job may be the problem Leah?

In terms of exacerbating your adrenal fatigue?

Have you read Dr 's book, Adrenal Fatigue - 21st Century

Phenomenon?

He talks about 'holes in our colanders' or suchlike and suggested we

plug these holes as well as medicate or take supplements to support

our adrenals because, as you know, we can take h.c till the cows come

home and not heal our adrenals as long as there are these constant

stressors, holes in our colanders, defeating us at every turn!

I u nderstand that many of us have to spread ourselves more thinly

than we would ideally like.

Mo

>

>

>

>

> >

> > Your body needs extra cortisol at times of stress Leah and will

> > produce this naturally if the adrenals are healthy. Up to about

200

> > mg I have heard though I doubt anyone really knows for sure

somehow.

> > So when you have an infection or a presentation or bad news, a

fall,

> > anything that is a stress on the system, then you NEED extra.

>

> I never really understood what constitutes stress as far as stress

> dosing is concerned, so that's really useful... To be honest my job

is

> really stressful, and I wonder if I should be stress dosing every

work

> day... thinking about it almost every time I can think of that I had

> this, is when I am at work, the only other ones I can think of were

at

> the airport, and visiting the in-laws (believe me they define the

very

> meaning of the word stress!!)

>

>

> > If we don't supply that extra cortisol ourselves, then we go into

an

> > adrenal dip to varying degrees depending our cortisol reserves and

> > the severity and/or length of the stressful period.

> > When our cortisol dips this this, it means that the thyroid we are

> > taking/making has no cortisol to escort it into the cells so we go

> > hypo and our average daily temps plummet.

> > In the process we feel the effects of low cortisol and thyroid

which

> > is unusable by the cells i.e. shaky, nauseous, rapid pulse,

anxiety,

> > fatigue etc. etc.

> > You need to stress dose as soon as you notice a cold, immediately

if

> > not sooner

>

> I am definately guilty of trying to get away with not doing it! I

guess

> that has come and bit me in the bottom. Because of my ASI's, I

have a

> fear in the back of my mind that I am doing myself damage, and so am

> reluctant to stress dose, fearing I am causing myself terrible long

term

> damage..add that to not entirely understandign it, and well, you

get the

> picture...

>

> > With a presentation where you might expect to feel a bit strained

> > then we can stress dose in advance and it is tricky with Pred I

know

> > as I used to take it myself for a long time Leah. I am not sure

about

> > the answer to your question as to whether you could use both h.c

and

> > Pred. I suppose you could, I will check that for you if you like?

>

> Yes that would be great. I ask as I am reluctant to make any more

major

> changes at the moment, particularly with the holiday coming up, but

> don't like stress dosing pred...so adding cortisone in may give me a

> halfway house...

>

>

> > I think the basal temps only tell you about the state of your

thyroid

> > Leah and the average daily temps as per www.drrind.com tell you

> > whether your adrenals are in good enough nick to take a T3. I

believe

> > T3 is harder on the adrenals than Armour so it makes sense to

ensure

> > you have a good adrenal situation before increasing. A good

adrenaL

> > status would be a daily average (over 5 days) that deviates less

> > than .1 C or .2 F. You simply take three temps, one three hours

after

> > rising, then three hours later and again a further three hours

later.

> > It helps to keep to the same time of day, I do noon, 3 pm and 6 pm

> > for convenience. You add them up, divide by three to get the

average

> > and log that on the graph supplied on Dr Rind's site and you get

five

> > days' worth and then you can see if you are stable or not.

>

> I will definately do that, I have taken morning and evening and they

> usually drop really dramatically, but have never done this way.

>

>

> > What was your original ASI like Leah? I am wondering what the

basis

> > was for settling on 5 mg Pred?

>

> I don't think that my ASI is worth the paper it's written on. My

> clincial signs and symptoms all along have pointed to AF, but for

some

> reason my saliva results were high across the board, strangely I

had a

> blood test that day and that was low in the range (274, range 150 -

> 700). The ASI did show that of the 4 samplesm, the lunchtime and

night

> samples were less high than the other when compared to the range

IYKWIM.

>

> I am thinking you may need higher

> > amounts earlier in the day of cortisol as this following the

natural

> > rhythm whereas the Pred gives you a steady dose all day and all

night

> > I think which may leave you with too little at certain times of

the

> > day and perhaps too much at others?

>

> I thin perhaps that is a good idea - if I can take the cortisone

with

> pred, then I can stres dose when required, I'd feel less worried

about

> that!

>

>

> > Hang on in there, you're almost there!

>

>

> I really hope so, I was contemplating giving up work and going back

on

> T4 only last night I was feeling so upset about it all (steady on!)

>

> Thanks for you help, I really appreicate it (that goes to everyone

who

> ahs replied!)...

>

> Leah x

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mo,

The trouble is, we can't afford to live on just my OH's wages (I know

it sounds like we can with cruises and the like - but the cruise has

been paid for by my MIL as a retirement/65th last big blowout)...

I do only work part time too, so it's only 3 days each week, but it

is interesting that I do quite often find that on the days I work

(MOn, Tues, Weds) I often get this heart racy thing, and then on

Thurs (my first day off) I often get a kind of sheer exhaustion set

in. My job is really strange - it's intense moments of stress

interspersed with boredom...

I hadn't really thought about it before, but I guess it kind of makes

sense...

Maybe if I can stress dose with HC just before a big stress moment

like a presentation or a really confrontational customer??

Leah x

> > >

> > > Your body needs extra cortisol at times of stress Leah and will

> > > produce this naturally if the adrenals are healthy. Up to about

> 200

> > > mg I have heard though I doubt anyone really knows for sure

> somehow.

> > > So when you have an infection or a presentation or bad news, a

> fall,

> > > anything that is a stress on the system, then you NEED extra.

> >

> > I never really understood what constitutes stress as far as stress

> > dosing is concerned, so that's really useful... To be honest my

job

> is

> > really stressful, and I wonder if I should be stress dosing every

> work

> > day... thinking about it almost every time I can think of that I

had

> > this, is when I am at work, the only other ones I can think of

were

> at

> > the airport, and visiting the in-laws (believe me they define the

> very

> > meaning of the word stress!!)

> >

> >

> > > If we don't supply that extra cortisol ourselves, then we go

into

> an

> > > adrenal dip to varying degrees depending our cortisol reserves

and

> > > the severity and/or length of the stressful period.

> > > When our cortisol dips this this, it means that the thyroid we

are

> > > taking/making has no cortisol to escort it into the cells so we

go

> > > hypo and our average daily temps plummet.

> > > In the process we feel the effects of low cortisol and thyroid

> which

> > > is unusable by the cells i.e. shaky, nauseous, rapid pulse,

> anxiety,

> > > fatigue etc. etc.

> > > You need to stress dose as soon as you notice a cold,

immediately

> if

> > > not sooner

> >

> > I am definately guilty of trying to get away with not doing it!

I

> guess

> > that has come and bit me in the bottom. Because of my ASI's, I

> have a

> > fear in the back of my mind that I am doing myself damage, and so

am

> > reluctant to stress dose, fearing I am causing myself terrible

long

> term

> > damage..add that to not entirely understandign it, and well, you

> get the

> > picture...

> >

> > > With a presentation where you might expect to feel a bit

strained

> > > then we can stress dose in advance and it is tricky with Pred I

> know

> > > as I used to take it myself for a long time Leah. I am not sure

> about

> > > the answer to your question as to whether you could use both

h.c

> and

> > > Pred. I suppose you could, I will check that for you if you

like?

> >

> > Yes that would be great. I ask as I am reluctant to make any more

> major

> > changes at the moment, particularly with the holiday coming up,

but

> > don't like stress dosing pred...so adding cortisone in may give

me a

> > halfway house...

> >

> >

> > > I think the basal temps only tell you about the state of your

> thyroid

> > > Leah and the average daily temps as per www.drrind.com tell you

> > > whether your adrenals are in good enough nick to take a T3. I

> believe

> > > T3 is harder on the adrenals than Armour so it makes sense to

> ensure

> > > you have a good adrenal situation before increasing. A good

> adrenaL

> > > status would be a daily average (over 5 days) that deviates less

> > > than .1 C or .2 F. You simply take three temps, one three hours

> after

> > > rising, then three hours later and again a further three hours

> later.

> > > It helps to keep to the same time of day, I do noon, 3 pm and 6

pm

> > > for convenience. You add them up, divide by three to get the

> average

> > > and log that on the graph supplied on Dr Rind's site and you

get

> five

> > > days' worth and then you can see if you are stable or not.

> >

> > I will definately do that, I have taken morning and evening and

they

> > usually drop really dramatically, but have never done this way.

> >

> >

> > > What was your original ASI like Leah? I am wondering what the

> basis

> > > was for settling on 5 mg Pred?

> >

> > I don't think that my ASI is worth the paper it's written on. My

> > clincial signs and symptoms all along have pointed to AF, but for

> some

> > reason my saliva results were high across the board, strangely I

> had a

> > blood test that day and that was low in the range (274, range

150 -

> > 700). The ASI did show that of the 4 samplesm, the lunchtime and

> night

> > samples were less high than the other when compared to the range

> IYKWIM.

> >

> > I am thinking you may need higher

> > > amounts earlier in the day of cortisol as this following the

> natural

> > > rhythm whereas the Pred gives you a steady dose all day and all

> night

> > > I think which may leave you with too little at certain times of

> the

> > > day and perhaps too much at others?

> >

> > I thin perhaps that is a good idea - if I can take the cortisone

> with

> > pred, then I can stres dose when required, I'd feel less worried

> about

> > that!

> >

> >

> > > Hang on in there, you're almost there!

> >

> >

> > I really hope so, I was contemplating giving up work and going

back

> on

> > T4 only last night I was feeling so upset about it all (steady

on!)

> >

> > Thanks for you help, I really appreicate it (that goes to

everyone

> who

> > ahs replied!)...

> >

> > Leah x

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Its very impractical to think anyone can completley cut all stress out of their life, some of us have to work and actually enjoy doing so and anyway who wants to sit at home all day? Reducing some stress is possible but not all, life itself can be stressful but what are we meant to do? Stay in bed and avoid life? The adrenals are the stress busting glands of the body and if we look after them they should be able to cope with some stress and we learn to know our own limits and what we can and cant do but I for one will not be opting out of life just to avoid stress, if you work and do a job you enjoy then that isnt stressful its theapy

It sounds like your job may be the problem Leah?In terms of exacerbating your adrenal fatigue?Have you read Dr 's book, Adrenal Fatigue - 21st Century Phenomenon?He talks about 'holes in our colanders' or suchlike and suggested we plug these holes as well as medicate or take supplements to support our adrenals because, as you know, we can take h.c till the cows come home and not heal our adrenals as long as there are these constant stressors, holes in our colanders, defeating us at every turn!I u nderstand that many of us have to spread ourselves more thinly than we would ideally like.Mo>> > > > >> > Your body needs extra cortisol at times of stress Leah and

will> > produce this naturally if the adrenals are healthy. Up to about 200> > mg I have heard though I doubt anyone really knows for sure somehow.> > So when you have an infection or a presentation or bad news, a fall,> > anything that is a stress on the system, then you NEED extra.> > I never really understood what constitutes stress as far as stress> dosing is concerned, so that's really useful... To be honest my job is> really stressful, and I wonder if I should be stress dosing every work> day... thinking about it almost every time I can think of that I had> this, is when I am at work, the only other ones I can think of were at> the airport, and visiting the in-laws (believe me they define the very> meaning of the word stress!!)> > > > If we don't supply that extra cortisol ourselves, then we go into

an> > adrenal dip to varying degrees depending our cortisol reserves and> > the severity and/or length of the stressful period.> > When our cortisol dips this this, it means that the thyroid we are> > taking/making has no cortisol to escort it into the cells so we go> > hypo and our average daily temps plummet.> > In the process we feel the effects of low cortisol and thyroid which> > is unusable by the cells i.e. shaky, nauseous, rapid pulse, anxiety,> > fatigue etc. etc.> > You need to stress dose as soon as you notice a cold, immediately if> > not sooner > > I am definately guilty of trying to get away with not doing it! I guess> that has come and bit me in the bottom. Because of my ASI's, I have a> fear in the back of my mind that I am doing myself damage, and so am> reluctant to stress

dose, fearing I am causing myself terrible long term> damage..add that to not entirely understandign it, and well, you get the> picture...> > > With a presentation where you might expect to feel a bit strained> > then we can stress dose in advance and it is tricky with Pred I know> > as I used to take it myself for a long time Leah. I am not sure about> > the answer to your question as to whether you could use both h.c and> > Pred. I suppose you could, I will check that for you if you like?> > Yes that would be great. I ask as I am reluctant to make any more major> changes at the moment, particularly with the holiday coming up, but> don't like stress dosing pred...so adding cortisone in may give me a> halfway house...> > > > I think the basal temps only tell you about the state of your

thyroid> > Leah and the average daily temps as per www.drrind.com tell you> > whether your adrenals are in good enough nick to take a T3. I believe> > T3 is harder on the adrenals than Armour so it makes sense to ensure> > you have a good adrenal situation before increasing. A good adrenaL> > status would be a daily average (over 5 days) that deviates less> > than .1 C or .2 F. You simply take three temps, one three hours after> > rising, then three hours later and again a further three hours later.> > It helps to keep to the same time of day, I do noon, 3 pm and 6 pm> > for convenience. You add them up, divide by three to get the average> > and log that on the graph supplied on Dr Rind's site and you get five> > days' worth and then you can see if you are stable or not.> > I will definately do that,

I have taken morning and evening and they> usually drop really dramatically, but have never done this way.> > > > What was your original ASI like Leah? I am wondering what the basis> > was for settling on 5 mg Pred?> > I don't think that my ASI is worth the paper it's written on. My> clincial signs and symptoms all along have pointed to AF, but for some> reason my saliva results were high across the board, strangely I had a> blood test that day and that was low in the range (274, range 150 -> 700). The ASI did show that of the 4 samplesm, the lunchtime and night> samples were less high than the other when compared to the range IYKWIM.> > I am thinking you may need higher> > amounts earlier in the day of cortisol as this following the natural> > rhythm whereas the Pred gives you a steady dose all day and all

night> > I think which may leave you with too little at certain times of the> > day and perhaps too much at others?> > I thin perhaps that is a good idea - if I can take the cortisone with> pred, then I can stres dose when required, I'd feel less worried about> that!> > > > Hang on in there, you're almost there!> > > I really hope so, I was contemplating giving up work and going back on> T4 only last night I was feeling so upset about it all (steady on!)> > Thanks for you help, I really appreicate it (that goes to everyone who> ahs replied!)...> > Leah x>

[Guest guest]

Hi Leah

Everything you are saying about your experiences whilst taking

thyroid hormone replacement points to the fact that something else is going on

that needs treatment and this could be any of the associated conditions with

thyroid disease that we note in our website under /Associated Conditions. Did you

note in my Christmas Newsletter that Prednisolone

is no longer available under its generic name in the US. The same product from

the same manufacturer is now being marketed under the brand name MILLIPRED

– and unfortunately, at a higher price - so now might be the time to

change to hydrocortisone and you MUST get into a routine of taking it several

times a day. This really is important. I am sure you have checked the

possibility of systemic candidiasis and low ferritin, but have you also asked your

GP to test to see where your vitamin B12 and vitamin D are. Also, do you have

amalgam fillings as mercury in your body can also stop your body absorbing

thyroid hormone replacement. Because of your ups and downs since taking thyroid

hormone replacement, have you ever been tested to see if you have antibodies to

your thyroid. Your TFT's do show very low FT4 and FT3.

Luv - Sheila

> What were your TFT's on Armour (3 grains) and why do you say you assume

your

> T4 is dropping?

TFTs

were done on 7/10/08 when I was on 2 grains plus 25mcg thyroxine, and were TSH

0.06 (0.35-4.5), T4 10.2 (11-26) and T3 4 (3.9-6.8). I only assume T4 is

dropping as I have halved my dose of armour, and therefore my only intake of T4

(I don't think I have much if any endogenous production)... Also had lots

of extreme tiredness and aches and fog back on the weekend before I upped T3,

so as had halved dose a couple of weeks before, I assume it was because T4 had

begun to drop.

>

>