Re: Help please with interpreting test results

[Guest guest]

Help,no replies to my last post,I don't understand how my FT3 and

TSH can be high at the same time, any thoughts appreciated.

best wishes keith

[Guest guest]

Hi (I should perhaps say 'High' under the circumstances.

Are you absolutely sure about your results? When T3 is high, TSH is low. Based on what you say that your TSH is high, then that would mean you are hypothyroid. But in hypothyroidism, T3 is low or normal. In hyPERthyroidism, your TSH is LOW, and T3 is elevated. So the results you listed are contradicting. What has your doctor suggested. No doubt he will probably repeat the tests along with tests for thyroid antibodies and/or thyroid stimulating hormone and refer you to an endocrinologist. You will certainly give the endocrinologist a challenge. I really am sorry, but unless somebody else has any ideas, I can't help in this case.

Your low adrenal reserve might point to stacking and if that is the case, perhaps you should stop your thyroid hormone replacement for a while and concentrate solely in boosting your adrenals.

Luv - Sheila

Results from 23/09/08

T4 128 (ref 58-150), TSH 5.37 (0.4- 4.0). FT4 19.9 (10-22), FT3 7.79 (2.8-6.5), FT4: FT3 Ratio 2.55 (3.0-5), thyroglobulin anti bodies <20.0 (0-40), TPOab 549 (0-35)

Reverse T3 0.44 (0.14-0.54)

Although I'm still hypo I can see that my T4 and FT4 have improved from my last test, what I find confusing is the high FT3 and high TSH. Could this be pointing to stacking of the FT3 due to my adrenals still being to low, I hoped they would improve with the liquorice and other supplements, is the next step HC supplement?

Best wishes

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 02/10/2008 07:46

[Guest guest]

High over the range T3 is a sign of low cortisol.

Bw

Gillian.

> Your low adrenal reserve might point to stacking and if that is the

case, perhaps you should stop your thyroid hormone replacement for a

while and concentrate solely in boosting your adrenals.

>

> Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, thank you for your reply, you must be exausted by the end of

the day. I'm 100% sure of results, this is the third set showing similar

levels. I've had these tests done at Genova Diagnostics and unfortunatly

they don't include T3 result, only FT3. My doctor admits She does not

understand anything beyond TSH and T4 and did refer me to a NHS endo. I

did ask the endo about my high Ft3 and TSH, She dismissed the FT3 level

saying that they varied to much throughout the day. Am I right in

thinking that only applies to exogenous T3/FT3 and not endogenous? I

think you are right and I will have to get my adrenals sorted out before

I can move on.

Hope you are keeping well.

Best wishes

>

> Hi (I should perhaps say 'High' under the circumstances.

>

> Are you absolutely sure about your results? When T3 is high, TSH is

low. Based on what you say that your TSH is high, then that would mean

you are hypothyroid. But in hypothyroidism, T3 is low or normal. In

hyPERthyroidism, your TSH is LOW, and T3 is elevated. So the results you

listed are contradicting. What has your doctor suggested. No doubt he

will probably repeat the tests along with tests for thyroid antibodies

and/or thyroid stimulating hormone and refer you to an endocrinologist.

You will certainly give the endocrinologist a challenge. I really am

sorry, but unless somebody else has any ideas, I can't help in this

case.

>

> Your low adrenal reserve might point to stacking and if that is the

case, perhaps you should stop your thyroid hormone replacement for a

while and concentrate solely in boosting your adrenals.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

>

>

>

> Results from 23/09/08

>

> T4 128 (ref 58-150), TSH 5.37 (0.4- 4.0). FT4 19.9 (10-22), FT3 7.79

(2.8-6.5), FT4: FT3 Ratio 2.55 (3.0-5), thyroglobulin anti bodies <20.0

(0-40), TPOab 549 (0-35)

>

> Reverse T3 0.44 (0.14-0.54)

>

> Although I'm still hypo I can see that my T4 and FT4 have improved

from my last test, what I find confusing is the high FT3 and high TSH.

Could this be pointing to stacking of the FT3 due to my adrenals still

being to low, I hoped they would improve with the liquorice and other

supplements, is the next step HC supplement?

>

> Best wishes

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------\

------

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date:

02/10/2008 07:46

>

[Guest guest]

Thank you Gillian, that make up my mind in what I have to do.

Best wishes

>

> High over the range T3 is a sign of low cortisol.

>

> Bw

> Gillian.

>

> > Your low adrenal reserve might point to stacking and if that is

the

> case, perhaps you should stop your thyroid hormone replacement for a

> while and concentrate solely in boosting your adrenals.

> >

> > Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

and Sheila,

You wrote:

>... When T3 is high, TSH is low. ...I really am sorry, but unless somebody else

has any ideas, I can't help in this case....

Could be hyperpituitary.

Chuck

[Guest guest]



Surely that is excessive pituitary hormone output and I cannot find where a high Free T3 goes along with that. What made you think of this Chuck?

Luv - Sheila

and Sheila,You wrote:>... When T3 is high, TSH is low. ...I really am sorry, but unless somebody else has any ideas, I can't help in this case....Could be hyperpituitary.Chuck

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1705 - Release Date: 03/10/2008 08:18

[Guest guest]

Hi Chuck, I don't think hyperpituitary can explain my drop in T4

105.0 to 98.5 and 83.0 (ref 58-154) before I started on

levthyroxine.Though thinking isn't one of my best attributes at the

moment.

Thanks for reply

best wishes keith

>

> >... When T3 is high, TSH is low. ...I really am sorry, but unless

somebody else has any ideas, I can't help in this case....

>

> Could be

>

> Chuck

>

[Guest guest]

Are you taking any beta-blockers . I believe these can cause high T3?

Luv - Sheila

Hi Chuck, I don't think hyperpituitary can explain my drop in T4 105.0 to 98.5 and 83.0 (ref 58-154) before I started on levthyroxine.Though thinking isn't one of my best attributes at the moment.Thanks for replybest wishes keith

..

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1705 - Release Date: 03/10/2008 08:18

[Guest guest]

Good morning Sheila, no I'm not on beta-blockers.I have one question

that I think you can answer is Cortisol active in getting T3 into

cells or just conversion of T4 to T3.

Regards

>

> Are you taking any beta-blockers . I believe these can cause

high T3?

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

>

> Hi Chuck, I don't think hyperpituitary can explain my drop in T4

> 105.0 to 98.5 and 83.0 (ref 58-154) before I started on

> levthyroxine.Though thinking isn't one of my best attributes at

the

> moment.

>

> Thanks for reply

> best wishes keith

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi, .

Yes.I suspect the liquorice root you have taken caused this problem. Your FT3 is elevated right after the supplement of liquorice root?

Fragrance

>> Good morning Sheila, no I'm not on beta-blockers.I have one question > that I think you can answer is Cortisol active in getting T3 into > cells or just conversion of T4 to T3.> > Regards > > > >> > Are you taking any beta-blockers . I believe these can cause > high T3?> > > > Luv - Sheila> > > > > > > > > > Hi Chuck, I don't think hyperpituitary can explain my drop in T4 > > 105.0 to 98.5 and 83.0 (ref 58-154) before I started on > > levthyroxine.Though thinking isn't one of my best attributes at > the > > moment.> > > > Thanks for reply> > best wishes keith> > > > > >>

[Guest guest]

Hi

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/93/8/3075

this work by the Dayan group at Bristol shows one reason that T3 can be unexpectedly high

Bob

>> > > > Hi Sheila and all, can I have some help with interpreting my latest> results. I'll start with my old result for some background information.> > Results from 19/03/08> > T4 105 (ref 58-150), TSH 5.99 (0.4- 4.0). FT4 14.0 (10-22), FT3 6.85> (2.8-6.5), FT4: FT3 Ratio 2.04 (3.0-5), thyroglobulin anti bodies <20> (0-40), TPOab 629 (0-35)> > 24 hour adrenal salivery test 04/04/08 at Stage 5> > 7-8 am 9 (13-24)> > 11-noon 3 (5-8)> > 4-5 pm 1 (3-8)> > 11-midnight 2 (1-4)> > DHEA 5 (3-10)> > Results from 20/5/08> > T4 77 (ref 58-150), TSH 5.51 (0.4- 4.0). FT4 15.60 (10-22), FT3 5.99> (2.8-6.5), FT4: FT3 Ratio 2.60 (3.0-5), thyroglobulin anti bodies <20.3> (0-40), TPOab 426 (0-35)> > Supplements, whole liquorice root (capsules), zinc, selenium, magnesium.> Vitamins, C, B6, B12.> > 27/06/08> > Started on 25mg levothyroxine. (Trial)> > Levothyroxine increased to 50 mg> > > > Latest results> > Results from 23/09/08> > T4 128 (ref 58-150), TSH 5.37 (0.4- 4.0). FT4 19.9 (10-22), FT3 7.79> (2.8-6.5), FT4: FT3 Ratio 2.55 (3.0-5), thyroglobulin anti bodies <20.0> (0-40), TPOab 549 (0-35)> > Reverse T3 0.44 (0.14-0.54)> > Although I'm still hypo I can see that my T4 and FT4 have improved from> my last test, what I find confusing is the high FT3 and high TSH. Could> this be pointing to stacking of the FT3 due to my adrenals still being> to low, I hoped they would improve with the liquorice and other> supplements, is the next step HC supplement?> > Best wishes >

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob, the results of this paper do fit my test result apart from

they expect the reverse T3 levels to decrease were mine are high

normal, or am I reading it wrong.

regards keith

>

>

> Hi

>

> http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/93/8/3075

> <http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/93/8/3075>

>

> this work by the Dayan group at Bristol shows one reason that T3

can be

> unexpectedly high

>

>

> Bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

... it looks like the suplementation helped get the FT4 up whilst T4 was

still going down...

then adding in the L-T4 helped with the Total T4 measure

overall, it may take longer to get the TSH down even with the FT3

looking high.

Many people need to keep their FT4 and their FT3 in the upper quartile

of the range in order to feel well and that may include ignoring, to

some extent, the TSH reading.

It takes time to get everything to re-adjust to the 'well' pattern, but

the added L-T4 changes the way 'feed-back' works.

best wishes

Bob

>

> Help,no replies to my last post,I don't understand how my FT3 and

> TSH can be high at the same time, any thoughts appreciated.

>

> best wishes keith

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Fragrance,In my first set of test my FT3 is high, this was before

I started the liquorice root,I think my best bet is to go by how my

symptoms progressed(hypothyroid to adrenal) and treat in reverse

order.

Thanks for reply

Best wishes >

>

> Hi, .

>

> Yes.I suspect the liquorice root you have taken caused this

problem.

> Your FT3 is elevated right after the supplement of liquorice root?

>

> Fragrance

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Bob, that does make sense, maybe patience is a virtue I need to

work on.

Best wishes

> Many people need to keep their FT4 and their FT3 in the upper

quartile

> of the range in order to feel well and that may include ignoring, to

> some extent, the TSH reading.

>

> It takes time to get everything to re-adjust to the 'well' pattern,

but

> the added L-T4 changes the way 'feed-back' works.

>

> best wishes

> Bob

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob, I'm afraid this type of data is way over my head, I need

information more in lay'man terms.

Best Wishes

> >

> > Help,no replies to my last post,I don't understand how my FT3 and

> > TSH can be high at the same time, any thoughts appreciated.

> >

> > best wishes keith

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

The layman's terms take a little longer....:-)

....and a bit more folic acid <?>

Bob

> Hi Bob, I'm afraid this type of data is way over my head, I need

> information more in lay'man terms.

[Guest guest]

Hi

I have written to Dr Thierry Hertoghe (the world's expert on hormones) and sent him a copy of your original letter asking if he can throw any light on why your TSH and Free T3 is so high. He does float around the continents for most of his time, so I might have to wait for a response. I will let you know when he writes back to me.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Fragrance,In my first set of test my FT3 is high, this was before I started the liquorice root,I think my best bet is to go by how my symptoms progressed(hypothyroid to adrenal) and treat in reverse order.Thanks for replyBest wishes >> > Hi, .> > Yes.I suspect the liquorice root you have taken caused this problem.> Your FT3 is elevated right after the supplement of liquorice root?> > Fragrance> > >

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1706 - Release Date: 03/10/2008 18:17

[Guest guest]

Sheila,

You wrote:

>

> Surely that is excessive pituitary hormone output and I cannot find

> where a high Free T3 goes along with that. What made you think of this

> Chuck?

If he is taking a thyroid medication, that will keep the FT3 up. In

combination with a rare pituitary neoplasm, you get the contradictory

readings.

Chuck

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

>

> Hi Chuck, I don't think hyperpituitary can explain my drop in T4

> 105.0 to 98.5 and 83.0 (ref 58-154) before I started on

> levthyroxine.Though thinking isn't one of my best attributes at the

> moment.

Actually the conflicting indicators are consistent with hyperpituitary.

Your thyroid output was down because of the elevated TSH, not because

the thyroid was failing, the usual assumption for high TSH. You still

had thyroid function or at least some capacity for it. As the TSH

continued to rise, thyroid output dropped in response, giving you a

lower T4. However, the T4 medication kept supplying the production line

for T3, so your FT3 went up.

The pituitary end of the feed-back loop won't respond, because it is

broken and over producing. TSH will continue to go up, independent of

the other blood levels.

Pituitary tumors are rare, usually benign, and treatable, but they do

require attention.

Best,

Chuck

[Guest guest]

Hi Chuck

But was not on any thyroid hormone replacement when his TSH and FT£ were high in two of his previous tests. Also, he is only taking 50 mcgs T4.

Luv - Sheila

Sheila,You wrote:> > Surely that is excessive pituitary hormone output and I cannot find > where a high Free T3 goes along with that. What made you think of this > Chuck?If he is taking a thyroid medication, that will keep the FT3 up. In combination with a rare pituitary neoplasm, you get the contradictory readings.Chuck

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1706 - Release Date: 03/10/2008 18:17

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sheila, If you post the response on the forum may'be I'll

have it framed and hang it on my wall, seriously though, I am aware of

his standing and his help in the hearing with Dr skinner, it's far

more than I ever expected.

Thank you

>

> Hi

>

> I have written to Dr Thierry Hertoghe (the world's expert on

hormones) and sent him a copy of your original letter asking if he can

throw any light on why your TSH and Free T3 is so high. He does float

around the continents for most of his time, so I might have to wait

for a response. I will let you know when he writes back to me.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is interesting Chuck. My sister had a pituitary tumour which was removed successfully. This was when she was aged 30. Problem is, I cannot for the life of me remember how they came to find this or even what her symptoms were, apart from being extroadinarily fatigued most of the time.

Luv - Sheila

Actually the conflicting indicators are consistent with hyperpituitary. Your thyroid output was down because of the elevated TSH, not because the thyroid was failing, the usual assumption for high TSH. You still had thyroid function or at least some capacity for it. As the TSH continued to rise, thyroid output dropped in response, giving you a lower T4. However, the T4 medication kept supplying the production line for T3, so your FT3 went up.The pituitary end of the feed-back loop won't respond, because it is broken and over producing. TSH will continue to go up, independent of the other blood levels.Pituitary tumors are rare, usually benign, and treatable, but they do require attention.Best,Chuck

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1706 - Release Date: 03/10/2008 18:17

[Guest guest]

High cortisol can block conversion of T4 into T3 and low cortisol

prevents uptake into the cells.

Have you had your RT3 checked ? I am not 100% on this I have to

say but iot may be implicated in high FT3 I think......

Mo

>

> Not 100% on this one but I believe that Cortisol us active in

both helping with conversion of T4 to T3 and also into getting T3

into the cells. Somebody else may know whether this is correct or not.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

> Good morning Sheila, no I'm not on beta-blockers.I have one

question

> that I think you can answer is Cortisol active in getting T3 into

> cells or just conversion of T4 to T3.

>

> Regards

>

> >

>

> Recent Activity

> a.. 13New Members

> b.. 2New Links

> c.. 15New Files

> Visit Your Group

> Meditation and

> Lovingkindness

>

> A Group

>

> to share and learn.

>

> Health

> Early Detection

>

> Know the symptoms

>

> of breast cancer.

>

> Biz Resources

> Y! Small Business

>

> Articles, tools,

>

> forms, and more.

> .

>

>

>

> --------------------------------------------------------------------

----------

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com

> Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1706 - Release Date:

03/10/2008 18:17

>