Re: sub-clinical hypothyroid

[Guest guest]

Sheila, I have tried what you said about erasing the previous message,

is this what you mean, I have done it on this message?

Also as you know I am waiting to see Dr. E at Harlow, he was

recommended by you as I spoke to you last week which was very nice,

but what I would like to know is does Dr. E. prescribe Armour Thyroid?

It would be very good if he did.

Thanx

Ann

[Guest guest]

Sheila, you asked for my blood results again, I am very tired at the

moment but my Serum TSH level was - 6.13 miu/L fasting (range 0.35 -

5.5) in the column entitled NORMALITY it was written underneath ABOVE

RANGE. So I am above normal and not being treated at the moment, the

bad doc I saw said he would monitor me in two months time with another

blood test - but I am not going to wait for that when I feel like

living death alot of the time, also over the past two years as I have

steadily put on more and more weight and got tireder and tireder and

had to give up two great college courses because of it, I also

developed a very bad back and have over the two years got tendonitits

- pain in the achillies heels really badly and can't walk very far

sometimes because of the pain, I take osteocare for my bones because

of my back and this has improved as well as doing exercises for it

that the physio showed me, it has greatly improved but not the tendons

in my legs, it would be interesting to see if the when starting the

thyroid treatment if these pains go away?!

I hope I am sending the messages correctly now, please let me know.

Thanx

Ann

[Guest guest]

Hi

Ann - yes, you have done a good job. However, when responding to anybody's post,

it helps to leave just a little of the previous message to show what you are

responding to - and who you are responding to. The list of doctors I sent are

those who will prescribe synthetic combination of T3/T4 or natural thyroid

extract (Armour). They do not do this automatically, they do it if their

patients are not regaining their normal health on synthetic levothyroxine

alone. Lilian is always seeing Dr E and he has started her on T3 (which

is the active hormone that every cell in your body and brain needs - albeit on

a very low dose, but he is being cautious, because we don't believe he knows

that Lilian has already been taking T3 and Armour for years. This is a long story

- her GP doesn't believe in any other thyroid hormone replacement other than

the mainly inactive levothyroxine and wants her to go back on it. She will no

doubt be able to tell you how she got on with Dr E.

Luv -

Sheila

Sheila, I have tried what you said about erasing the

previous message,

is this what you mean, I have done it on this message?

Also as you know I am waiting to see Dr. E at Harlow, he was

recommended by you as I spoke to you last week which was very nice,

but what I would like to know is does Dr. E. prescribe Armour Thyroid?

It would be very good if he did.

Thanx

Ann

[Guest guest]

Thanks Ann - I just needed to be

reminded.

Your symptoms are definitely those for low thyroid

and you do not appear to be converting your thyroxine to T3 and this is why you

are getting the pains. I am sure once you are given the thyroid hormone

replacement your body is crying out for, these symptoms will gradually

disappear. Your symptoms are exactly the same as mine before I started Armour

Thyroid. Good luck Ann.

Luv - Sheila

Sheila, you asked for my blood results again, I am

very tired at the

moment but my Serum TSH level was - 6.13 miu/L fasting (range 0.35 -

5.5) in the column entitled NORMALITY it was written underneath ABOVE

RANGE.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, Thanks for your message and support unfortunately I have

accidently deleted too much of your previous message by mistake -

sorry, still trying to get the hang of doing this!

I suppose I shouldn't be called 'sub-clinical' if I am over the

normal range, can you let me know please. Also I forgot to give you

the Serum Free T4 level it was 16.3 pmol/L normal range 10.3 - 18.3 so

I suppose it is quite near the top of the range - what does this mean?

Free T3 was 4.8 pmol/L normal range 4.0 - 6.8, also I don't know what

this means either, I also had anti-bodies tested but they were negative.

Also I didn't get the newsletter, said that there was some

information there about obtaining Armour Thyroid and it could be in

short supply, could you let me know how I could receive this

newsletter please.

Also my mother is suffering at the moment, she has been hypoT for

about 7 years and on thyroxine from the NHS doctor, although I don't

know what brand she is on. The problem is she forgets to get her

blood tests done, mostly because she is very busy, she is 75 and still

works full time in a demanding job as a counsellor. She is about two

months behind with having her blood checked and she is very tired at

the moment, she is off work and she has brain fog, as well as feeling

the cold terribly at the moment and feeling depressed too. I keep

telling her about the thyroid condition and to get the blood test done

but she says she is sick of hearing about thyroid problems, now that I

have it as well, she is very irritable and depressed, I told her it

was probably because she needs her thyroxin put up but she doesn't

believe me and thinks she has a cold, but she doesn't have any

sypmtoms of a cold? She is not very sympathetic towards me at the

moment either, maybe we've both got the same kind of symptoms - I

don't know - its really difficult at the moment. Also I have put an

order in for the book 'Stop this Thyroid Madness' so I hope my mother

can read this and be more informed about her thyroid condition as she

isn't on the internet, her doc. hasn't told her anything really about

it, basically she is not very well informed at all.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanx

Ann

Thanks Ann - I just needed to be reminded.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

> Sheila, you asked for my blood results again, I am very tired at the

> moment but my Serum TSH level was - 6.13 miu/L fasting (range 0.35 -

> 5.5) in the column entitled NORMALITY it was written underneath ABOVE

> RANGE.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Ann

You're

doing fine. What you have left of the message is fine. You will be a dab hand

at all of this soon.

You

are using the correct terminology when you call it subclinical hypothyroidism. Your

Free T4 is quite near the top of the range which might be because it is not

getting converted to the active hormone T3 - as your Free T3 is low in the

range. This is probably why you are getting all the pains you are

experiencing and feeling so rotten.

I

have posted how you can read the newsletter in our Files.

Would

your Mum consider seeing a private doctor such as Dr Peatfield. BTW his book is

great too " Your thyroid and Hos to Keep it Healthy " . He wrote it

especially to teach patients how to look after themselves with thyroid and

adrenal problems. It is an excellent books, and many use this as their bible.

You can buy this from Amazon, but don't forget to buy it from our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk where you can click on

the link on the Home Page in the right hand column.

Luv -

Sheila

I suppose I shouldn't be called 'sub-clinical' if I am over the

normal range, can you let me know please. Also I forgot to give you

the Serum Free T4 level it was 16.3 pmol/L normal range 10.3 - 18.3 so

I suppose it is quite near the top of the range - what does this mean?

Free T3 was 4.8 pmol/L normal range 4.0 - 6.8, also I don't know what

this means either, I also had anti-bodies tested but they were negative.

[Guest guest]

I think you may be a bit like me Ann, even when my TSH was good and my T4 high in range I still had a low T3, 4.06, so we could both be having problems converting thus my decision to try armour. I think if i had carried on with my high dose of T4, 150mcg, I may have ended up going toxic, I knew I still didnt feel right even though the bloods said I was normal!

This is why so many of us end up looking after ourselves, I hope your appointment went better today with a different doc

Hi Ann

I have posted how you can read the newsletter in our Files.

Would your Mum consider seeing a private doctor such as Dr Peatfield. BTW his book is great too "Your thyroid and Hos to Keep it Healthy". He wrote it especially to teach patients how to look after themselves with thyroid and adrenal problems. It is an excellent books, and many use this as their bible. You can buy this from Amazon, but don't forget to buy it from our website www.tpa-uk.org. uk where you can click on the link on the Home Page in the right hand column.

Luv - Sheila

I suppose I shouldn't be called 'sub-clinical' if I am over thenormal range, can you let me know please. Also I forgot to give youthe Serum Free T4 level it was 16.3 pmol/L normal range 10.3 - 18.3 soI suppose it is quite near the top of the range - what does this mean?Free T3 was 4.8 pmol/L normal range 4.0 - 6.8, also I don't know whatthis means either, I also had anti-bodies tested but they were negative.

[Guest guest]

Hi , The doctor I saw today was a good doctor, he prescribed me

with two months supply of Levothyroxine at 25 microgrammes, start

taking it tomorrow unitl the Armour arrives - still not here. We do

sound a bit the same my TSH was over the range, high T4 but still in

range and a low Free T3 at 4.8 - normal range 4.0 - 6.8.

I feel I can relax a bit now, now that I have at least some medication.

Luv

Ann

>

> I think you may be a bit like me Ann, even when my TSH was good and

> my T4 high in range I still had a low T3, 4.06, so we could both be

> having problems converting thus my decision to try armour. I think if

> i had carried on with my high dose of T4, 150mcg, I may have ended up

> going toxic, I knew I still didnt feel right even though the bloods

> said I was normal!

>

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

Hi Ann

Thats good to hear, when did you order the armour?

Remember the thyroxine doesnt take effect straight away, it takes 6 weeks to have an effect and be fully absorbed by the body so you wont notice anything for a while. it is a waiting game I am afriad. At least you had a result today though! I would actually say your T4 is slightly above mid range, the ref range for my tests is 9-22, I see yours is 18, I do wonder why these ranges vary?

Hi , The doctor I saw today was a good doctor, he prescribed mewith two months supply of Levothyroxine at 25 microgrammes, starttaking it tomorrow unitl the Armour arrives - still not here. We dosound a bit the same my TSH was over the range, high T4 but still inrange and a low Free T3 at 4.8 - normal range 4.0 - 6.8.I feel I can relax a bit now, now that I have at least some medication.LuvAnn>> I think you may be a bit like me Ann, even when my TSH was good and> my T4 high in range I still had a low T3, 4.06, so we could both be> having problems converting thus my decision to try armour. I think if> i had carried on with my high dose of T4, 150mcg, I may have ended up> going toxic, I

knew I still didnt feel right even though the bloods> said I was normal!> [Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

What a

wonderful stroke of luck Ann. I am really pleased for you. There ARE some

decent doctors who actually CARE about their patients. I guess now you will be

seeing no other doctor at your surgery - pop the other one in the dust-bin,

you don't need a doctor like that. 25 mcgs is a very tiny dose, so you

may not feel very much benefit on this until it is increased. Doctors usually

increase it every 6 weeks (or they should) by 25mcgs until your symptoms

disappear. You should buy 200mcgs Selenium and take this daily with food.

Selenium is needed to help you convert the mainly inactive thyroxine to the

active hormone T3. Take also 1/2000mgs Vitamin C daily and look in our website

under Nutrition and Supplements to see what other supplements are recommended.

Luv - Sheila

Hi

Sheila, I went to another doctor this afternoon at my practice, as

I said before he is a very nice doctor, he is new there and is o.k. He

told me that I was sub-clinical because as you said, it is because my

TSH level is high but my T4 is still within the range, even though it

is the top end. BUT and the big BUT is he has prescribed me with

Levothyroxine, and so I am very pleased that he is taking my symptoms

seriously, unlike the other doc. there who asked me if I had seen a

psychiatrist lately. He has prescribed me with 25 microgrammes with

two months supply, so at least I can take that until the Armour

arrives. I asked him about natural thyroid extract and he didn't seem

to know about it and just said the synthetic variety is o.k. But at

least I got somewhere.

[Guest guest]

Hi

- what you are forgetting about when taking Armour is that you are also

taking the active hormones T3 and T2. I felt an effect (good) after only 9 days

of using Armour.

Please

can you remember to delete as much as possible from previous messages before

clicking SEND and leave just a portion of what you are responding to.

Luv -

Sheila

Remember the thyroxine

doesnt take effect straight away, it takes 6 weeks to have an effect and be

fully absorbed by the body so you wont notice anything for a while. it is a

waiting game I am afriad.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

I was referring to thyroxine taking 6 weeks to be fully absorbed, I believe Ann has now got a prescription for thyroxine and that is what I was telling her, she has also ordered some armour so not sure which one she will choose to take. I took my first quarter of a grain this morning, it did take about half an hour to be absorbed like you said Sheila. I havent eaten yet but will soon, I thought I might take the next dose about 3pm. Does that sound about right?

Hi - what you are forgetting about when taking Armour is that you are also taking the active hormones T3 and T2. I felt an effect (good) after only 9 days of using Armour.

Please can you remember to delete as much as possible from previous messages before clicking SEND and leave just a portion of what you are responding to.

Luv - Sheila

Remember the thyroxine doesnt take effect straight away, it takes 6 weeks to have an effect and be fully absorbed by the body so you wont notice anything for a while. it is a waiting game I am afriad.

[Guest guest]

Your dosing regime is fine . Are

you also taking 200 mcgs Selenium? It will be interesting to see what you

report about your health in the next few weeks ;o)

Luv -

Sheila

I was referring to

thyroxine taking 6 weeks to be fully absorbed, I believe Ann has now got a

prescription for thyroxine and that is what I was telling her, she has also

ordered some armour so not sure which one she will choose to take. I took my

first quarter of a grain this morning, it did take about half an hour to be

absorbed like you said Sheila. I havent eaten yet but will soon, I thought I

might take the next dose about 3pm. Does that sound about right?

[Guest guest]

It will be interesting Sheila to how I go on the armour, I just want my head back!

I am taking Selenium, have done for months now, I also take Vit C and a high potency Vit B complex, HC and spatone. Thanks Sheila

I did wonder if I should wait until after christmas to start the armour but I cant see any reason why, I finish work today for Christmas so I thought it would be a good time to start

Your dosing regime is fine . Are you also taking 200 mcgs Selenium? It will be interesting to see what you report about your health in the next few weeks ;o)

Luv - Sheila

I was referring to thyroxine taking 6 weeks to be fully absorbed, I believe Ann has now got a prescription for thyroxine and that is what I was telling her, she has also ordered some armour so not sure which one she will choose to take. I took my first quarter of a grain this morning, it did take about half an hour to be absorbed like you said Sheila. I havent eaten yet but will soon, I thought I might take the next dose about 3pm. Does that sound about right?

[Guest guest]

I have had to edit as you mentioned the doctors name in full again and I have

deleted some of the messages already seen which you left. Lilian, moderator.

Hi Sheila, yes it was nice to see a doctor who cared, however, I am

still going to try the Armour once it arrives. I took 1 pill of

Levothyroxine this morning, but as soon as the Armour arrives I'm

going to change to that, after everything I have read here and on

other web sites I think this is the best way to go. Mind you, I don't

know what I am going to do about the blood tests, I know it is said

that one doesn't take anything for 24 hours before a test, but the

doc. might think it is a bit strange that on only a little amount, as

he thinks I'm only on 25 microgrammes, how can my blood be back to

normal and remain o.k. etc.? He said I needed another blood test in

two months time. I will still have to put in a repeat prescription

every two months for the Levothyroxine as if I am taking it, what do

you think? I did talk to this doctor yesterday about the natural

extract and went on about how this was used since the late 1800's for

thyroid problems, but he just said that the synthetic one was o.k. and

I asked to be referred to an endocrinologist but he said that doctors

manage this illness themselves and that I didn't need to see an endo.

However, I am still waiting to see if I can see Dr. E without a

referral from a G.P. I emailed his secretary to ask him, but he will

not be back to work until Monday. I also went into a local pharmacy

where I live and asked the pharmacist if he knew of any doc. who

prescribes Armour Thyroid, he said he didn't but he could order it in

if I found a doc. he said try a private G.P. But I did go to a private

G.P. and she wouldn't prescribe thyroxin because she said only if I

had anti-bodies, but my N.H.S. doc. yesterday did, weird isn't it how

doctors differ?! Failing doctor E being able to help me I

suppose the next thing is to find a doctor who will prescribe the

natural thyroid.

Also I cannot open the latest newsletter through this web site in the

Files, is it possible that you can email it to me at my home email

address that you have.

Thanx

luv

Ann

>

> What a wonderful stroke of luck Ann. I am really pleased for you.

There ARE

> some decent doctors who actually CARE about their patients

> dust-bin, you don't need a doctor like that. 25 mcgs is a very tiny

dose,

> so you may not feel very much benefit on this until it is increased.

Doctors

> usually increase it every 6 weeks (or they should) by 25mcgs until your

> symptoms disappear.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

> Hi Sheila, I went to another doctor this afternoon at my practice, as

> I said before he is a very nice doctor, he is new there and is o.k. He

> told me that I was sub-clinical because as you said, it is because my

> TSH level is high but my T4 is still within the range, even though it

> is the top end. BUT and the big BUT is he has prescribed me with

> Levothyroxine, and so I am very pleased that he is taking my symptoms

> seriously, unlike the other doc. there who asked me if I had seen a

> psychiatrist lately. He has prescribed me with 25 microgrammes with

> two months supply, so at least I can take that until the Armour

> arrives. I asked him about natural thyroid extract and he didn't seem

> to know about it and just said the synthetic variety is o.k. But at

> least I got somewhere.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, yes it was nice to see a doctor who cared,

however, I am

still going to try the Armour once it arrives. I took 1 pill of

Levothyroxine this morning, but as soon as the Armour arrives I'm

going to change to that, after everything I have read here and on

other web sites I think this is the best way to go. Mind you, I don't

know what I am going to do about the blood tests, I know it is said

that one doesn't take anything for 24 hours before a test, but the

doc. might think it is a bit strange that on only a little amount, as

he thinks I'm only on 25 microgram's, how can my blood be back to

normal and remain o.k. etc.?

Well - miracles do happen, so he might think this is a

miracle. I would always encourage patients to tell their doctor though if they

are self-treating, and you can tell him the reasons why and that you are

prepared to pay for this yourself if necessary, but would be delighted if he

would monitor your progress as you would like him to see how well natural

thyroid extract works for patients, and you would feel happier having a doctor

beside you anyway. You could then explain what happens with the blood test

results when anybody is taking natural thyroid extract…..and that is…..that

the TSH becomes completely suppressed, but that is natural because you are

taking ALL the thyroid hormones your body requires, so there is no need for any

thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) to be secreted. Your Free T4 and Free

T3 will be well up into the top of the reference range - which might surprise

him, but again, this is to be expected. Thyroid blood tests are very different

if you are taking synthetic levothyroxine alone because this mainly inactive

hormone has to convert to the active hormone T3, and not everybody does

convert, but even if they do, often their Free T4 and Free T4 are not too high

in the range. Doctors recognise only that if your FT4 and FT3 are high and your

TSH is suppressed, this must mean you are going hyperthyroid - and this really

worries them.

Unless you come clean with your doctor from the start of your

self-treatment, you are going to have to continue to lie to him and this could

cause problems. You are obviously a determined lady and know what you want, but

I don't want you making a harder rod for your back than you need. If your GP

refers you to Dr E and he agrees to recommend Armour for you and your GP is

happy to prescribe it on his recommendations, that means you will get it free

of charge on the NHS. However, I think that even Dr E would not start somebody

who has just been diagnosed on Armour straight away, he would try them on

levothyroxine - and I would still recommend that you try this medication,

because IT DOES WORK for the majority of sufferers. I would at least give it a

try. Before trying a private GP, it is always best to find out first whether

they are willing to prescribe Armour before you pay to go to see them. It's

hard work getting there, but you will. I don't understand WHY your private GP

said she would only prescribe levothyroxine if a patient had antibodies -

doesn't she know that not everybody has antibodies to their thyroid?

I will email you the Newsletter to your Home Email address if

you give it to me. I am assuming this message is not from that address.

Luv - Sheila

_

[Guest guest]

> Hi Sheila, yes it was nice to see a doctor who cared, however, I am

> still going to try the Armour once it arrives. I took 1 pill of

> Levothyroxine this morning, but as soon as the Armour arrives I'm

> going to change to that, after everything I have read here and on

> other web sites I think this is the best way to go. Mind you, I don't

> know what I am going to do about the blood tests, I know it is said

> that one doesn't take anything for 24 hours before a test, but the

> doc. might think it is a bit strange that on only a little amount, as

> he thinks I'm only on 25 microgrammes, how can my blood be back to

> normal and remain o.k. etc.? He said I needed another blood test in

> two months time. I will still have to put in a repeat prescription

> every two months for the Levothyroxine as if I am taking it, what do

> you think? I did talk to this doctor yesterday about the natural

> extract and went on about how this was used since the late 1800's for

> thyroid problems, but he just said that the synthetic one was o.k. and

> I asked to be referred to an endocrinologist but he said that doctors

> manage this illness themselves and that I didn't need to see an endo.

> However, I am still waiting to see if I can see Dr. E without a

> referral from a G.P. I emailed his secretary to ask him, but he will

> not be back to work until Monday. I also went into a local pharmacy

> where I live and asked the pharmacist if he knew of any doc. who

> prescribes Armour Thyroid, he said he didn't but he could order it in

> if I found a doc. he said try a private G.P. But I did go to a private

> G.P. and she wouldn't prescribe thyroxin because she said only if I

> had anti-bodies, but my N.H.S. doc. yesterday did, weird isn't it how

> doctors differ?! Failing doctor E being able to help me I

> suppose the next thing is to find a doctor who will prescribe the

> natural thyroid.

>

> Also I cannot open the latest newsletter through this web site in the

> Files, is it possible that you can email it to me at my home email

> address that you have.

>

> Thanx

> luv

> Ann

>

>

>

>

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

,

You wrote:

>

> I was referring to thyroxine taking 6 weeks to be fully absorbed,...

T4 is fully absorbed in two hours. What takes 6 weeks is for the blood

levels to build to close to a steady state by taking " maintenance "

doses. Technically it should take more than 10 half lives to reach that

level, but the T4 dose builds more quickly when we are hypoT.

Chuck