Re: Latest results. Advice needed please.

[Guest guest]

I posted this yesterday. Can anyone help please.

> Hi all, I hope everyone is doing ok.

>

> I have just had some more bloods done but I need some advice please.

> My GP has freaked out thinking I'm gonna have a heart attack if I

> increase my LevoT. I need to increase it as I'm still getting most of

> my HypoT symptoms. Because my TSH is low though he won't up my T4.

>

> I have put 3 sets of results on here.

>

> (Started 25mcg IN JUNE 08. Initial results PRIOR TO ANY MEDS TSH 3.6

> FT4 11.8 FT3 5.2)

>

> 15th SEPT 08 ON 100mcg T4

>

> TSH 0.18 (0.3 - 5.5)

> FT4 19.0 (11 - 24)

> FT3 5.2 (3.5 - 6.7)

>

> I kept on getting hot flushes and profuse sweating. I guessed the T4

> was pooling so I requested T3 which has now stopped those problem.

>

> 13TH OCT 08 ON 50mcg T4 & 10mcg T3

>

> TSH 0.27 (0.3 - 5.5)

> FT4 12.8 (11 - 24)

> FT3 4.6 (3.5 - 6.7)

>

> Recent bloods

> 17TH NOV 08 0N 100mcg T4 & 20mcg T3

>

> TSH <0.1 (0.3 - 5.5)

> FT4 16.2 (11 - 24)

> FT3 5.7 (3.5 - 6.7)

>

> To date I'm still on 100 mcg T4, 20mcg T3

>

>

> -- Any ideas as to why my TSH is so low yet the T4 is still not

> optimal. Do I increase T4 and decrease T3?

> -- Would RT3 feature in this (asked GP,he'd never heard of RT3 - go

> figure!!)

> -- I'm on 3 x NAE and 2 NT. My average daily temps are 98.2 - 98.6 but

> can fluctuate now and then. My ferritin has gone up to 80 from 10.

> -- What do the results mean to the experts on here as I don't know

> what to do next.

> Thank you from a confused person!!!

> Luv Justeen xxxxx

>

[Guest guest]

No expert but depending on your symptoms I would have thought you

need more T4 AND more T3.

The T3 will suppress your TSH I am guessing and that is not a problem

to us but IS to GPs generally.

I don't think RT3 is an issue for you as your FT4 is not terrifically

high which I think it would be if there was an RT3 issue. FT4 is

usually at a good place when it is at least mid-range and yours is

not quite there yet.

FT3 is usually at a good place when it is top of the range and

slightly over and yours is not there yet either. And your afternnoon

temp needs to be 98.6 with most of your symptoms gone.

You are obviously not converting well as you say and need an increase

in either T4 or T3 or both.

Mo

> >

> > I have just had some more bloods done but I need some advice

please.

> > My GP has freaked out thinking I'm gonna have a heart attack if I

> > increase my LevoT. I need to increase it as I'm still getting

most of

> > my HypoT symptoms. Because my TSH is low though he won't up my T4.

> >

> > I have put 3 sets of results on here.

> >

> > (Started 25mcg IN JUNE 08. Initial results PRIOR TO ANY MEDS TSH

3.6

> > FT4 11.8 FT3 5.2)

> >

> > 15th SEPT 08 ON 100mcg T4

> >

> > TSH 0.18 (0.3 - 5.5)

> > FT4 19.0 (11 - 24)

> > FT3 5.2 (3.5 - 6.7)

> >

> > I kept on getting hot flushes and profuse sweating. I guessed the

T4

> > was pooling so I requested T3 which has now stopped those problem.

> >

> > 13TH OCT 08 ON 50mcg T4 & 10mcg T3

> >

> > TSH 0.27 (0.3 - 5.5)

> > FT4 12.8 (11 - 24)

> > FT3 4.6 (3.5 - 6.7)

> >

> > Recent bloods

> > 17TH NOV 08 0N 100mcg T4 & 20mcg T3

> >

> > TSH <0.1 (0.3 - 5.5)

> > FT4 16.2 (11 - 24)

> > FT3 5.7 (3.5 - 6.7)

> >

> > To date I'm still on 100 mcg T4, 20mcg T3

> >

> >

> > -- Any ideas as to why my TSH is so low yet the T4 is still not

> > optimal. Do I increase T4 and decrease T3?

> > -- Would RT3 feature in this (asked GP,he'd never heard of RT3 -

go

> > figure!!)

> > -- I'm on 3 x NAE and 2 NT. My average daily temps are 98.2 -

98.6 but

> > can fluctuate now and then. My ferritin has gone up to 80 from 10.

> > -- What do the results mean to the experts on here as I don't know

> > what to do next.

> > Thank you from a confused person!!!

> > Luv Justeen xxxxx

> >

>

[Guest guest]

When

anybody is taking any form of T3 medication, whether synthetic or natural then

your Free T3 will naturally be into the upper third of the reference range and

your TSH will be suppressed. Ask your doctor WHY your pituitary gland would

need to secrete any thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH) when your body has

sufficient T4 and T3. It just doesn't need any TSH.

How old are

you - are you of an age when you could be going through the menopause. Apart

from that have you had your ferritin (stored iron) tested - your Vitamin D or

B12 tested. Do you suffer with low adrenal reserve or from systemic

candidiasis. If you have low adrenal reserve, low vit.D - these will stop your

thyroid hormone from being absorbed as will candida. You can get all of these

tested, but first, if you are within the right age range, look towards the menopause

as being the culprit.

luv -

Sheila

> I kept on getting hot flushes and profuse sweating. I guessed the T4

> was pooling so I requested T3 which has now stopped those problem.

> Recent bloods

> 17TH NOV 08 0N 100mcg T4 & 20mcg T3

>

> TSH <0.1 (0.3 - 5.5)

> FT4 16.2 (11 - 24)

> FT3 5.7 (3.5 - 6.7)

>

> To date I'm still on 100 mcg T4, 20mcg T3

>

>

> -- Any ideas as to why my TSH is so low yet the T4 is still not

> optimal. Do I increase T4 and decrease T3?

> -- Would RT3 feature in this (asked GP,he'd never heard of RT3 - go

> figure!!)

> -- I'm on 3 x NAE and 2 NT. My average daily temps are 98.2 - 98.6 but

> can fluctuate now and then. My ferritin has gone up to 80 from 10.

> -- What do the results mean to the experts on here as I don't know

> what to do next.

> Thank you from a confused person!!!

> Luv Justeen xxxxx

>

[Guest guest]

This is where I could do with your advice re this aspect pse Sheila.

My GP said yesterday that if thyroid hormone was not getting into my

cells as I had suggested to him (and this was the cause of pooling of

FT3 on my blood without hyperT symptoms as I also suggested), then my

TSH would not be suppressed as it was/is.

Is it the case that the pituitary gland would respond, in terms of

secreting TSH, to sufficient T3 levels in the blood OR (and this is

hugely significant for me) in the cells?

Mo

> Ask your doctor WHY your pituitary gland would need to secrete any

> thyroid stimulating hormone (TSH)when your body has sufficient T4

> and T3. It just doesn't need any TSH.

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I'm 39, 40 in April. My Mum started her menopause aged 45 and her mum

aged 42. I think the peri-menopause could be the answer. Also I know

my hormones are all out of sink (Labtech) GP not interested. My

ferritin is now 80. B12 and Vit D - no idea. I'm just about keeping

candida at bay, but struggling. My adrenals are slowly improving. With

regards to the reply from MO about increasing both the T4 and T3 what

do you think? Thanks Sheila

Luv Justeen x

>

> When anybody is taking any form of T3 medication, whether synthetic or

> natural then your Free T3 will naturally be into the upper third of

> the reference range and your TSH will be suppressed. Ask your doctor > WHY

your pituitary gland would need to secrete any thyroid

> stimulating hormone (TSH)

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

Hi Mo,

Thank you.

Don't under estimate your expert knowledge.

In order to increase I'm gonna have to buy it myself and lie to GP

about my dose. I think really that I'm now quite capable of playing

around with the dose, so I'll give it a go. I think my hormones are

playing havoc as well. My labtech result showed abnormally high

progesterone. GP didn't go with the saliva test and arranged a blood

test. This was within range but eostrogen was slightly over and he

said not to be concerned.

TBH,I'm so fed up with all this. I have MS to put up with as well and

feel like I'm going no where fast.Just having a woe is me moment!

Are you on Armour or synthetic meds? Still toying with Armour at the

moment.

Thanks again Mo

Luv Justeen x

> No expert but depending on your symptoms I would have thought you

> need more T4 AND more T3.

> The T3 will suppress your TSH I am guessing and that is not a problem

> to us but IS to GPs generally.

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

e,

What exactly are your remaining hypoT symptoms?

Did you ever test positive on antibodies?

Chuck

>

>

> I posted this yesterday. Can anyone help please.

>

> > ... Recent bloods

> > 17TH NOV 08 0N 100mcg T4 & 20mcg T3

> >

> > TSH <0.1 (0.3 - 5.5)

> > FT4 16.2 (11 - 24)

> > FT3 5.7 (3.5 - 6.7)

> >

> > To date I'm still on 100 mcg T4, 20mcg T3...

> > -- Would RT3 feature in this....

[Guest guest]

Well if that is the state of play e, then I would think a

little T3 could be the answer for you.

I hear what you are saying about the sex hormones and I would ask

what is the situation about your adrenal hormones i.e. have they been

tested? and what were the results becauwe, as you know, it is

important to have your adrenals stabilised in order to stabilise your

thyroid hormones.

I am struggling myself with the difference between saliva and blood

testing for sex hormones and how this is showing VERY different

results for me so I am sorry I cannot say anything helpful regarding

that situation for you.

I may be thought that your are oretgoen dominant, have you looked

into this?

I am on T3 only e as I don't convert well either.

Mo

> Thank you.

> Don't under estimate your expert knowledge.

> In order to increase I'm gonna have to buy it myself and lie to GP

> about my dose. I think really that I'm now quite capable of

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

>

Hi Chuck,

My remaining symptoms are:

Disproportionate weight gain – torso

Enlarged tongue

Puffy face and eye lids (especially in the morning)

Face, chin, cheeks have got rounder/fatter

Oedema lower legs, hands, ankles & feet.

Vaginal & oral thrush (re-current)

Headache frequently above left eye area

Abdominal bloating, nausea, indigestion

Periods are erratic

Face has become `furry'. Hair on stomach

Dark patches on forehead and cheek bones.

Skin on neck looks brown/dirty. Underarms and groin skin

discoloured/darker

Some things (not on the list)have improved and some, again not on the

list are due to my MS.

TPoab 42.5 (0 - 60) taken 21/08/08

Thanks Chuck

luv Justeen

> e,

> What exactly are your remaining hypoT symptoms?

> Did you ever test positive on antibodies?

> Chuck

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

Hi Mo,

Here's my labtach results

NPTech saliva test taken Sept 29th 2008

Salivary cortisol:

8.00am 10.2 (12.0 - 33.0)

12 noon 2.1 (10.0 - 28.0)

4.00pm 6.4 (6.0 - 11.8)

Midnight 1.2 (1.0 - 5.0)

Salivary DHEA Age range female age 35 -44 yrs (I'm 39.5)

8.00am 9.2 (8.0 - 24.0)

12 noon 5.9 (5.0 - 10.8)

4.00pm 5.0 (3.5 - 7.5)

midnight 3.7 (2.0 - 5.0)

Salivary Hormones (noon)

These were done on day 7 of my 25 day cycle (follicular phase)

Salivary Oestradiol

26.3 (follicular phase 3.0 - 35.0)

(ovulatory peak 12.0 - 70.0)

(luteal phase 6.0 - 30.0)

Salivary progesterone

7067.8 (follicular phase 8.0 - 300.0)

(luteal phase 300 - 1900)

Salivary Testosterone

406.7 (35 - 350)

I am trying to up my adrenals with 3 x NAE, again GP looked at me gone

out when I showed him the results.

Good fun this hormone lark!!!

Luv Justeen x

> Well if that is the state of play e, then I would think a

> little T3 could be the answer for you.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi hon

The way I understand it is this, but don't take it as gospel I am no

expert.

When we take TH especially with the T3 the feedback loop kicks in

telling the pituatory that it doesn't need to put out TSH because it

has enough TH. So the first time you increase it you get the benefits

then they TSH goes down and if you haven't enough replacement then you

feel the hypo symptoms kick back in. Until you replace enough to get

your levels up to what they would be in a healthy person without

reading the TSH any more you will feel hypo because your own thyroid

doesn't get the signal to produce any hormones. So you have to raise

to symptoms.

Also the adrenal hormones carrying it into cells is the other

consideration. Too much and it won't happen, too little and it won't

happen either. It is a difficult thing to titrate.

lotsa luv

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

Justeen,

Mine is just one amateur opinion, but I doubt that additional thyroid

hormones are going to help. Rather than push you doctor to give you

more, when the TSH is going to make him balk, I would push him to figure

out what is really going on. OTOH, it does not seem that your physician

has gotten on top of these issues before, so there may be no reason to

expect progress from that quarter.

At the very least, this constellation suggests other hormonal axes.

Chuck

You wrote:

>

>

>

> >

> Hi Chuck,

> My remaining symptoms are:

> Disproportionate weight gain – torso

> Enlarged tongue

> Puffy face and eye lids (especially in the morning)

> Face, chin, cheeks have got rounder/fatter

> Oedema lower legs, hands, ankles & feet.

> Vaginal & oral thrush (re-current)

> Headache frequently above left eye area

> Abdominal bloating, nausea, indigestion

> Periods are erratic

> Face has become `furry'. Hair on stomach

> Dark patches on forehead and cheek bones.

> Skin on neck looks brown/dirty. Underarms and groin skin

> discoloured/darker

>

> Some things (not on the list)have improved and some, again not on the

> list are due to my MS.

>

> TPoab 42.5 (0 - 60) taken 21/08/08

>

[Guest guest]

Looks like you may not have enough cortisol to get the T3 where you

want it e.

Do you feel the NAE is enough for you?

Your prog is very high and test. is high too.

Not sure what that means, maybe someone else who is well up on this

aspect of things can say something about this?

Mo

>

>

> Hi Mo,

> Here's my labtach results

> NPTech saliva test taken Sept 29th 2008

> Salivary cortisol:

>

> 8.00am 10.2 (12.0 - 33.0)

> 12 noon 2.1 (10.0 - 28.0)

> 4.00pm 6.4 (6.0 - 11.8)

> Midnight 1.2 (1.0 - 5.0)

>

> Salivary DHEA Age range female age 35 -44 yrs (I'm 39.5)

>

> 8.00am 9.2 (8.0 - 24.0)

> 12 noon 5.9 (5.0 - 10.8)

> 4.00pm 5.0 (3.5 - 7.5)

> midnight 3.7 (2.0 - 5.0)

>

> Salivary Hormones (noon)

> These were done on day 7 of my 25 day cycle (follicular phase)

>

> Salivary Oestradiol

> 26.3 (follicular phase 3.0 - 35.0)

> (ovulatory peak 12.0 - 70.0)

> (luteal phase 6.0 - 30.0)

>

> Salivary progesterone

> 7067.8 (follicular phase 8.0 - 300.0)

> (luteal phase 300 - 1900)

>

> Salivary Testosterone

> 406.7 (35 - 350)

>

> I am trying to up my adrenals with 3 x NAE, again GP looked at me

gone

> out when I showed him the results.

> Good fun this hormone lark!!!

> Luv Justeen x

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

HI Justeen

I doubt you ened to increase either your T4 or your T3, the results show

these are OK so you should perhaps be looking elsewhere as to the

reasons your thyroid hormone replacement is not getting rid of your

symptoms which are causing you many problems. Have you ever done the 24

hour salivary adrenal profile test or just 'self diagnosed' through the

adrenal questionnaire? If not, I think this would be a sensible thing to

do as it does sound as if you could have some adrenal issues that are

not being taken care of through taking your Nutri Adrenal Extra. Do you

take your temperature three times daily and keep a graph to show whether

or not your adrenals ARE improving? You say also that you are just

keeping candida at bay. Have you had the Candida Antibody test - and

what are you taking to keep candida at bay? I would definitely ask your

GP to test your B12 - do not take no for an answer - there is a

distinct possibility this could be low for sufferers with

hypothyroidism. Also, were you ever tested to see whether you have

antibodies to your thyroid?

Sorry for all the questions, but we need to get this right and not guess

at the treatment you might need.

Luv - Sheila

>

> Hi Sheila,

>

>

> I'm 39, 40 in April. My Mum started her menopause aged 45 and her mum

> aged 42. I think the peri-menopause could be the answer. Also I know

> my hormones are all out of sink (Labtech) GP not interested. My

> ferritin is now 80. B12 and Vit D - no idea. I'm just about keeping

> candida at bay, but struggling. My adrenals are slowly improving. With

> regards to the reply from MO about increasing both the T4 and T3 what

> do you think? Thanks Sheila

> Luv Justeen x

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mo,

Your

pituitary responds by increasing the TSH when you are not putting out

sufficient thyroid hormones naturally, but it would not respond if you have

sufficient thyroid hormones, which your blood tests show that you have.

As you

have low cortisolCortisol

level/adrenal dysfunction your thyroid function tests would show a

lowish Free T4T4 test

with much higher Free T3. In

such a case, the FT3 is pooling in the blood and is unableAmylase

- blood

Bleeding

Blood

cells

Blood

clot formation

Blood

clots

Blood

culture

Blood

differential

Blood

gases

Blood

gases test

Blood

glucose monitoring

Blood

in semen to reach cells because of the low cortisol. I guess your

doctor knows little about this and maybe his cause for concern. Perhaps

somebody like Chuck can be more explicit about this, though I think he may

still be a little sceptical about the thyroid/adrenal connection. Cortisol

level I can't quite remember where you are with your treatment of

low cortisol (we have so many members). Are you taking your temperature three

times daily per Dr Rind and keeping a temperature chart. Cortisol

level

Luv -

SheilaCushing

syndromeBrain-thyroid

link

Child

thyroid anatomy

Chronic

thyroiditis (hashimoto’s disease)

Hashimoto's

disease (chronic thyroiditis)

Hyperparathyroidism

Hyperthyroidism

Hypoparathyroidism

Hypothyroidism

Hypothyroidism

- primary

Hypothyroidism

- secondary

Incision

for thyroid gland surgeryKidney

diet - dialysis patients

This is

where I could do with your advice re this aspect pse Sheila.

My GP said yesterday that if thyroid hormone was not getting into my

cells as I had suggested to him (and this was the cause of pooling of

FT3 on my blood without hyperT symptoms as I also suggested), then my

TSH would not be suppressed as it was/is.

Is it the case that the pituitary gland would respond, in terms of

secreting TSH, to sufficient T3 levels in the blood OR (and this is

hugely significant for me) in the cells?

Mo

,___

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I'm sat here in tears as I don't know what to do next but

please don't apologise for asking so many questions. If it wasn't for you and

the others on here I don't know where I'd be.

Have you ever done

the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile test or just 'self diagnosed' through the adrenal questionnaire?

Do you mean this:

NPTech saliva test taken Sept 29th 2008

Salivary cortisol:

8.00am 10.2 (12.0 - 33.0)

12 noon 2.1 (10.0 - 28.0)

4.00pm 6.4 (6.0 - 11.8)

Midnight 1.2 (1.0 - 5.0)

Salivary DHEA Age range female age 35 -44 yrs (I'm 39.5)

8.00am 9.2 (8.0 - 24.0)

12 noon 5.9 (5.0 - 10.8)

4.00pm 5.0 (3.5 - 7.5)

midnight 3.7 (2.0 - 5.0)

Salivary Hormones (noon)

These were done on day 7 of my 25 day cycle (follicular phase)

Salivary Oestradiol

26.3 (follicular phase 3.0 - 35.0)

(ovulatory peak 12.0 - 70.0)

(luteal phase 6.0 - 30.0)

Salivary progesterone

7067.8 (follicular phase 8.0 - 300.0)

(luteal phase 300 - 1900)

Salivary Testosterone

406.7 (35 - 350)

After posting this you recommended NAE of which I'm now on 3

a day.

Do you take your

temperature three times daily and keep a graph to show whether

or not your adrenals ARE improving?

I take 3 temps per day then plot the average as per Dr.

Rind. Prior to NEA my daily temps were going between 36.6 / 97.8 to 36.8 / 98.2. Since taking NAE this is an example of the

results 36.6 /97.8 increasing by .1 for

about a week up to 36.8 / 98.3. They then went down to 36.6 / 97.8 over the

next week. Increased again to 37.0 / 98.6 went down by .2 for a few days shot

up to 37.2 / 98.9 then over the week down to 36.8 / 98.2 now this last week up

to 98.6 / 37.0 . There is no consistency and I think that menstrual cycle/

hormones could be affecting it? As an over all average I would say they fluctuate

between 36.6 / 97.8 and 37.0 / 98.6.

You say also that

you are just keeping candida at bay. Have you had the Candida Antibody test -

and what are you taking to keep candida at bay?

I haven't had an anti body test. When I get a niggle of

vaginal thrush I take a flucanazole. I also take caprylic acid. I don't know

the difference between systemic candida and vaginal thrush though. I did the

home spit in water test months ago and it was fine. My progesterone is high

(saliva test) normal on blood test. I believe high prog, can `cause' thrush?

GP to test your B12

- do not take no for an answer - there is a distinct possibility this could be

low for sufferers with hypothyroidism.

I haven't had this tested for years. Last time, about 5 yrs

ago it was low so I needed injections. This was a course of 3 and that was it.

Also, were you

ever tested to see whether you have antibodies to your thyroid?

TPoab 42.5 (0 - 60) taken 21/08/08

Re the B12. I daren't go back and ask. As I've said before

my GP is great. When I discovered TPA I took all the information about

reference values etc and he said I could try T4 then as time went on he offered

T3. This where it ends. He won't accept saliva tests has never heard of RT3 and

won't work outside the BTA or is BTF guidelines now. On Monday when i saw him I

was in there for 40 mins trying to get him to do something about my hormones

etc (which are causing severe mood swings, crying for no reason then the next

minute having to stop myself losing it big time. I got the feeling I was

annoying him so like an idiot I said I would sort it myself.

Can I buy B12 injection s and do them myself or can

supplements help? I really need to see DR. P but I cannot afford too, so if you can help Sheila I would so grateful. I'm sorry for such a long

post.

Luv Justeen x

> HI Justeen> > I doubt you ened to increase either your T4 or your T3, the results show> these are OK so you should perhaps be looking elsewhere as to the> reasons your thyroid hormone replacement is not getting rid of your> symptoms which are causing you many problems. Have you ever done the 24>>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mo,

Thanks. Sheila has asked me some questions so she will probably tell

me if she thinks cortisol would be a good idea. Another thing GP

freaked out about when I mentioned it. I have been wondering if I need

it though. I did ask twice about the prog and test on here but didn't

get any replies. It's a complicated area I think. If you just take T3

how does this work without taking T4 ?

Thanks again MO

Luv Justeen

<moosborne@...> wrote:

>

> Looks like you may not have enough cortisol to get the T3 where you

> want it e.

> Do you feel the NAE is enough for you?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi chuck, Thank you. Sheila seems to think the same as yourself. As

for the GP, It's a no go I think. I get the feeling with female

hormone problems it's a case of put up and shut up. Thank you for your

thoughts, much appreciated.

Luv Justeen

>

> Mine is just one amateur opinion, but I doubt that additional thyroid

> hormones are going to help. Rather than push you doctor to give you

> more, when the TSH is going to make him balk, I would push him to f <

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn, thank you for replying. I'm still sat here in tears (just

composed a long reply to sheila - enough to make anyone cry!!)I don't

know what do do next. I did think I needed to increase but as a few

have said it looks like other things are going on too. It is just so

complex isn't it? I wonder if they do body transplants on the NHS yet LOL.

It's nice when someone replys as it shows you're not alone. I'm guilty

of not replying to others but I don't know anything useful to tell

them as such. I suppose a word of support is good though. Thank you again.

Luv Justeen

> Hi hon

>

> The way I understand it is this, but don't take it as gospel I am no

> expert.

>

> When we take TH especially with the T3 the feedback loop kicks in

> telling the pituatory that it doesn't need to put out TSH because it

> has enough TH. So the first time you increase it you get the benefits

> t

>

[Guest guest]

Justeen,

The dark skin and hair make me think Adrenal- check both symptoms

lists on the website (adrenal and thyroid) or see http://www.drrind.com who

has a lovely clear comparative checklist on his website and see what you

think.

Stenning

Subject: Re: Re: Latest results. Advice needed

please.

>

>

>

> >

> Hi Chuck,

> My remaining symptoms are:

> Disproportionate weight gain - torso

> Enlarged tongue

> Puffy face and eye lids (especially in the morning)

> Face, chin, cheeks have got rounder/fatter

> Oedema lower legs, hands, ankles & feet.

> Vaginal & oral thrush (re-current)

> Headache frequently above left eye area

> Abdominal bloating, nausea, indigestion

> Periods are erratic

> Face has become `furry'. Hair on stomach

> Dark patches on forehead and cheek bones.

> Skin on neck looks brown/dirty. Underarms and groin skin

> discoloured/darker

>

> Some things (not on the list)have improved and some, again not on the

> list are due to my MS.

>

> TPoab 42.5 (0 - 60) taken 21/08/08

>

------------------------------------

TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks. I have read this site before but I'm so confused by everything

I don't know what to think. I do think however having read it again

just now, you may have something there. I have been wondering about

cortisol. Thank you.

Luv Justeen x

> lists on the website (adrenal and thyroid) or see

http://www.drrind.com who

> has a lovely clear comparative checklist on his website and see what you

> think.

>

> Stenning

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

EDITED TO REMOVE MESSAGES ALREADY READ. PLEASE CHECK YOU HAVE DONE THIS AND ONLY

LEAVE A PORTION OF WHAT YOU ARE RESPONDING TO. MANY THANKS - LUV - SHEILA

________________________

Thanks Sheila.......

So the pituitary responds to what is in the bloodstream rather than

what is getting into the cells?

This is the $6,000,000 question.

My cortisol levels should be fine, assuming efficient absorption, as

I am taking 40 mg h.c.

I am on T3 only so my FT4 is below range as I would expect.

I have continuing problems of being very symptomatic with hypoT and

accompanying low temps.

My FT3 is over the range and I have absolutely no hyper symptoms,

none at all.

I can only assume that what is happening here is cell resistance but

my GP will have none of this as he insists that -

the TSH would not be suppressed if I was not getting enough thyroid

hormone into my CELLS.

Which brings me back to that $6,000,000 question.

Does anyone know the answer?

Mo

> Hi Mo,

> Your pituitary responds by increasing the TSH when you are not

putting out

> sufficient thyroid hormones naturally, but it would not respond if

you have

> sufficient thyroid hormones, which your blood tests show that you

have.

[Guest guest]

I would hold fire on adding in the T3 Justeen until you get your

cortisol levels right.

Your temps are showing unstable which indicates that your adrenals

are not where you want them to be.

So no point shooting ahead with more thyroid hormone until this is

sorted out as it will do you no good as thyroid hormone needs

cortisol to get into the cells and it is looking like your cortisol

is still too low to enable this to happen this to happen for you.

So first things first...

You WILL get there and it should not be too long now.

Mo x

>

> Thanks. Sheila has asked me some questions so she will probably tell

> me if she thinks cortisol would be a good idea. Another thing GP

> freaked out about when I mentioned it. I have been wondering if I

need

> it though. I did ask twice about the prog and test on here but

didn't

> get any replies. It's a complicated area I think. If you just take

T3

> how does this work without taking T4 ?

> Thanks again MO

> Luv Justeen

>

> <moosborne@> wrote:

> >

> > Looks like you may not have enough cortisol to get the T3 where

you

> > want it e.

> > Do you feel the NAE is enough for you?

> >

>

[Guest guest]

HI

Justeen

The

majority of people do well on synthetic levothyroxine (T4) alone and never have

to bother about taking any other form of thyroid hormone replacement.

Unfortunately, the mainly inactive hormone T4 has to convert into the active

hormone T3 and this is done mainly through the liver and kidneys and if this

doesn't happen, it can cause all sorts of problems and symptoms. In such cases,

the answer is to give the patient a trial of combination therapy of both T4 and

T3, or give them natural porcine thyroid extract (Armour thyroid) which has

T4,T3. T2,T1 and calcitonin. Doctors are loathe these days to give any form of

T3, as the British Thyroid Association have made it very clear on their website,

in their teachings and in the information they send to doctors telling them

that T3 is dangerous and should not be used, and that levothyroxine works for

everybody. Neither of these are true, but should a doctor dare to go outside

the BTA recommendations, they could well find themselves being reported to the

GMC with the risk of losing their livelihood and no doctor is going to run such

a risk. This is why forums such as this one are over-loaded with members

desperate to find support and information so they can look after themselves.

Some

people take T3 all on its own and if they can't convert - this can work

absolutely fine for them. You can read the TPA-UK rebuttal to the BTA's

misleading (and in parts completely incorrect) Statements on Armour and

synthetic T4/T3 combination therapy on our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk Just look in the right

hand panel under 'TPA-UK News'. The BTA have never acknowledged receipt, nor

have they changed their statements in any way so doctors are still getting information

that is not correct.

Luv -

Sheila

Hi Mo,

Thanks. Sheila has asked me some questions so she will probably tell

me if she thinks cortisol would be a good idea. Another thing GP

freaked out about when I mentioned it. I have been wondering if I need

it though. I did ask twice about the prog and test on here but didn't

get any replies. It's a complicated area I think. If you just take T3

how does this work without taking T4 ?

Thanks again MO

Luv Justeen

<moosborne@...> wrote:

>

[Guest guest]

Have you ever

done the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile test or just 'self diagnosed' through

the adrenal questionnaire?

NPTech saliva test

taken Sept 29th 2008

Salivary cortisol:

8.00am 10.2 (12.0 - 33.0) This is far too

low - your cortisol at this hour should be at its highest to help you get

through the day.

12 noon 2.1 (10.0 - 28.0)

This is also too low and again, outside the bottom of the reference

range.

4.00pm 6.4 (6.0 - 11.8)

Your cortisol does drop during the course of the day, but this should be

around 8 or 9 at this time.

Midnight 1.2 (1.0 - 5.0)

Cortisol should be at its lowest when you go to bed so you can sleep, so

this is the only one that is OK.

Salivary DHEA Age range female age 35 -44 yrs (I'm 39.5)

8.00am 9.2 (8.0 - 24.0)

The DHEA readings appear to be not too bad. It should be at its lowest

when you wake and highest when you sleep.

12 noon 5.9 (5.0 - 10.8)

4.00pm 5.0 (3.5 - 7.5)

midnight 3.7 (2.0 - 5.0)

Salivary Hormones (noon)

These were done on day 7 of my 25 day cycle (follicular phase)

Salivary Oestradiol

26.3 (follicular phase 3.0 - 35.0) This reading is quite high, but many sufferers with

hypothyroidism have high oestrogen.

(ovulatory peak 12.0 - 70.0)

(luteal phase 6.0 - 30.0)

Salivary progesterone

7067.8 (follicular phase 8.0 - 300.0) WOW - that is high. What did your GP

suggest???

(luteal phase 300 - 1900)

Salivary Testosterone

406.7 (35 - 350)

This reading is also high.

After posting this

you recommended NAE of which I'm now on 3 a day. You may wish to increase by taking another

tablet. Take 3 in the morning with your breakfast and one around 1.00p.m. with

your lunch and if no better in a couple of weeks, you can add yet another NAE

tablet. You can take up to 6 (many people need to do this) and if you still

find you are not getting better, you may wish to speak with Dr Peatfield on the

phone. Where about in the UK do you live - let me know this Justeen.

Do you take your temperature three times daily

and keep a graph to show whether

or not your adrenals ARE improving?

I take 3 temps per

day then plot the average as per Dr. Rind. Prior to NEA my daily temps were

going between 36.6 / 97.8 to 36.8 / 98.2. Since taking NAE this is

an example of the results 36.6 /97.8 increasing by .1 for about a week up

to 36.8 / 98.3. They then went down to 36.6 / 97.8 over the next week.

Increased again to 37.0 / 98.6 went down by .2 for a few days shot up to 37.2 /

98.9 then over the week down to 36.8 / 98.2 now this last week up to 98.6 /

37.0 . There is no consistency and I think that menstrual cycle/ hormones could

be affecting it? As an over all average I would say they fluctuate between

36.6 / 97.8 and 37.0 / 98.6.

Actually, these temperatures are quite good

though a little erratic. I wouldn't worry about these right now.

You say also that you are just keeping candida

at bay. Have you had the Candida Antibody test - and what are you taking

to keep candida at bay?

I haven't had an

anti body test. When I get a niggle of vaginal thrush I take a flucanazole. I

also take caprylic acid. I don't know the difference between systemic candida

and vaginal thrush though. I did the home spit in water test months ago and it

was fine. My progesterone is high (saliva test) normal on blood test. I believe

high prog, can `cause' thrush?

Systemic Candidiases is when you have candida

throughout your gut. Have you answered the questions in the Candida

Questionnaire to see whether this could be a strong possibility. Look on our

website www.tpa-uk.org.uk and click on

'Hypothyroidism' and then click on 'Associated Conditions' and then click on

'Candida' and read what Dr Peatfield has to say in his paper. Are you sure that

you have vaginal thrush and that this is not Lichen Schelrosis, these are very

similar in symptoms, both producing severe itching but with LS you cannot clear

this with medications for ordinary thrush - you have to use steroid cream such

as Dermovate. There are many hypothyroid men and women who suffer with Lichen

Sclerosis - only in men, it is called balanitis. A similar problem to thrush

and LS is Lichen Planus which again, is treated with steroid cream. To get this

properly diagnosed though you have to have a small piece of tissue removed

which is sent to the laboratory - this is the ONLY way to get a true diagnosis.

I know sufferers who have treated this condition for years with ordinary

canestan cream, which will do no good whatsoever, so this is something you may

want to look into, especially if you get this often. This is something that I

suffer.

GP to test your B12 - do not take no for an

answer - there is a distinct possibility this could be low for sufferers with

hypothyroidism.

I haven't had this

tested for years. Last time, about 5 yrs ago it was low so I needed injections.

This was a course of 3 and that was it.

Then you must get your B12 tested again,

especially as you needed injections of B12. You obviously have a problem here.

Low B12 will stop your thyroid hormone from being absorbed Justeen.

Also, were you ever tested to see whether you

have antibodies to your thyroid?

TPoab 42.5 (0 -

60) taken 21/08/08

Re the B12. I

daren't go back and ask. As I've said before my GP is great. When I discovered

TPA I took all the information about reference values etc and he said I could

try T4 then as time went on he offered T3. This where it ends. He won't accept

saliva tests has never heard of RT3 and won't work outside the BTA or is BTF

guidelines now. On Monday when i saw him I was in there for 40 mins trying to

get him to do something about my hormones etc (which are causing severe mood

swings, crying for no reason then the next minute having to stop myself losing

it big time. I got the feeling I was annoying him so like an idiot I said I

would sort it myself.

Perhaps what you should do is to write to your

GP. Doing a B12 test is a test that should be done if there is a possibility

this could be low. Tell your doctor you still suffer with the following

symptoms and make a list. You can check these off against the list of symptoms

on our website, again under 'Hypothyroidism'. Tell him you are trying to find

the connection between high oestrogen, high progesterone, high testosterone and

your low thyroid symptoms, and that you would like your B12 and Vitamin D

tested to see whether these are also low. Tell him that if he is not able to

help you, then please could he refer you to an endocrinologist so you can have

a thorough check up - but insist that you see a thyroid specialist rather than

a diabetic specialist. Ask for your letter to be placed in your medical notes

and be assertive in how you write it, let your GP know in a very nice way that

you are going to do everything you can to find what is causing your problems.

If he won't recognise your salivary tests, then don't worry about this. Many

NHS doctors do not understand them and only go by the NHS ACTH test - which

would make even a dead donkey kick. This is a road you will, of necessity, need

to go down yourself. Others have done it and got themselves well.

Can I buy B12

injection s and do them myself or can supplements help? I really need to see

DR. P but I cannot afford too, so if you can help Sheila I would so

grateful. I'm sorry for such a long post.

You should not be thinking of B12 injections

unless you have been tested to see whether you need them. If your B12 is very

low, you will get these free of charge within the NHS. However, you can buy B12

1000mgs sublingual tablets. The best are Solgar and you can buy these from your

health food store, or possibly much cheaper from places such as www.iherb.com

If you want some help in composing a letter to

your GP. let me know Justeen. You should not be afraid to ask for tests from

your GP - this is YOUR health and not his.

Luv - Sheila

Luv Justeen x

> HI Justeen

>

> I doubt you ened to increase either your T4 or your T3, the results show

> these are OK so you should perhaps be looking elsewhere as to the

> reasons your thyroid hormone replacement is not getting rid of your

> symptoms which are causing you many problems. Have you ever done the 24

>>