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Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone? JT

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Thanks JT,

Yes I wondered if it was something in the tablet other than the actual

naltrexone. The tab has a pale yellow colour coating, which means it

has an artificial colour, however being that the dose is so miniscule,

it is pretty amazing it could have had that much affect. I was using

Revia 50mg which you have to cut one tablet into 16 tiny pieces to get

the usual dose. Someone from the CFS group suggested I try the

compounded capsules to see if it made any difference but nobody here

in Australia is compounding it into low dose capsules yet. I can't

really justify the expense since the Revia (Naltrexone) cost me $200

(ouch) and I can't use them. Wish I wasn't so super-sensitive. I

have a long list of natural supplements that others with my symptoms

have had great success with but that my malfuncioning body simply

cannot tolerate. It is terribly frustrating and since I am unable to

work, it really hurts to have spent more money on something I can't

use. But I am really glad I tried it.

Warm regards,

Jan

> > Jan,

> >

> > I am not sure what CFS & MCS are, but you are right that if we

> could figure

> > out why you reacted this way to LDN, it might help many people.

> I, too, would

> > have thought that you would have felt better. My question is

> this; did you

> > have none of these symptoms before starting LDN?

> >

> > Best of luck to you!

> >

> > Marcie

> >

> >

> > In a message dated 10/18/2004 8:44:51 PM Central Daylight Time,

> > atranceformer@y... writes:

> >

> >

> > > I have CFS, MCS and am extremely sensitive to meds and many

> foods.

> > > I tried LDN recently but had such severe reactions to it that I

> had

> > > to stop. Persisting for 2 weeks and then reducing the low dose

> by

> > > half did not help enough for me to endure the treatment. My

> > > reactions included, asthma (hadn't had any asthma for about a

> year

> > > before this), sore flaking skin, dramatically increased fatigue

> and

> > > balance problems, worsened headache and my cognitive problems

> were

> > > much worse. This surprised me because after reading everyone's

> > > testimonials, I expected to feel better. I have since heard of

> only

> > > one other person who had almost identical symptoms from LDN, but

> > > thought it worth posting here, in an effort to find out more.

> > >

> > >

>

>

>

>

>

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Jan,

I really think you had a problem getting the correct dose and complicated by color, and inerts in the tablet pieces. Where are you located in Australia? I will send you a list of compounding pharmacies in Australia.

Wayne Loveland, R.Ph.

LaCrosse, WI

----- Original Message -----

From: atranceformer

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:16 AM

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone? JT

Thanks JT,Yes I wondered if it was something in the tablet other than the actualnaltrexone. The tab has a pale yellow colour coating, which means ithas an artificial colour, however being that the dose is so miniscule,it is pretty amazing it could have had that much affect. I was usingRevia 50mg which you have to cut one tablet into 16 tiny pieces to getthe usual dose. Someone from the CFS group suggested I try thecompounded capsules to see if it made any difference but nobody herein Australia is compounding it into low dose capsules yet. I can'treally justify the expense since the Revia (Naltrexone) cost me $200(ouch) and I can't use them. Wish I wasn't so super-sensitive. Ihave a long list of natural supplements that others with my symptomshave had great success with but that my malfuncioning body simplycannot tolerate. It is terribly frustrating and since I am unable towork, it really hurts to have spent more money on something I can'tuse. But I am really glad I tried it.Warm regards,Jan> > Jan,> > > > I am not sure what CFS & MCS are, but you are right that if we > could figure > > out why you reacted this way to LDN, it might help many people. > I, too, would > > have thought that you would have felt better. My question is > this; did you > > have none of these symptoms before starting LDN?> > > > Best of luck to you!> > > > Marcie> > > > > > In a message dated 10/18/2004 8:44:51 PM Central Daylight Time, > > atranceformer@y... writes:> > > > > > > I have CFS, MCS and am extremely sensitive to meds and many > foods. > > > I tried LDN recently but had such severe reactions to it that I > had > > > to stop. Persisting for 2 weeks and then reducing the low dose > by > > > half did not help enough for me to endure the treatment. My > > > reactions included, asthma (hadn't had any asthma for about a > year > > > before this), sore flaking skin, dramatically increased fatigue > and > > > balance problems, worsened headache and my cognitive problems > were > > > much worse. This surprised me because after reading everyone's > > > testimonials, I expected to feel better. I have since heard of > only > > > one other person who had almost identical symptoms from LDN, but > > > thought it worth posting here, in an effort to find out more. > > > > > >> > > > >

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Jan,

I fear you are getting an overdose of Naltrexone the way you are cutting up the

50mg tablet. Here are the instructions on how to prepare the 50mg tablet in

liquid form. You will also need to get something to sweeten it so it won't be

bitter. Wayne Loveland here on this forum can help you with that.

Liquid LDN (Easiest): Acquire some ml measuring equipment from the baby section

of a Drug Store and a small bottle with a screw-on cap. Put 50ml of water

(distilled is best) and one 50mg " ReVia " Naltrexone tablet in the small bottle

and let it dissolve with a little time and shaking. Now each ml of water in that

small bottle contains 1 mg of Naltrexone. At bedtime shake the bottle, take a

desired dose (no more than 4.5ml), chase it down with some water and store the

small bottle in the refrigerator. Some people have reported splitting the tablet

in half and dissolving it in 25ml of water to assure freshness every week.

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Hi Bren,

To save money that was what I was going to do next time instead of

having them compounded into capsules, but the following which has

appeared here lately (from Dr Lawrence) has put me off.

"Liquid preparations of naltrexone have been used

but it has been found that simple aqueous solutions are rapidly

inactivated and do not retain any therapeutic benefit beyond 24 hours.

A suspension in sugar syrup, with appropriate preservatives and

antioxidants, will retain its effectiveness for up to 60 days if kept

refrigerated at, or below, 4 degrees Centigrade."

I remember that some time ago a professional chemist quoted here from

one of his reference books saying it could last up to 2 months in

water, so now I don't know what to think. What do people think? Maybe

the implication was that the solution had preservatives and

antioxidants in it but I don't remember it saying that...............

Bren wrote:

Jan,

...............

Liquid LDN (Easiest): Acquire some ml measuring equipment from the baby

section of a Drug Store and a small bottle with a screw-on cap. Put

50ml of water (distilled is best) and one 50mg "ReVia" Naltrexone

tablet in the small bottle and let it dissolve with a little time and

shaking. Now each ml of water in that small bottle contains 1 mg of

Naltrexone. At bedtime shake the bottle, take a desired dose (no more

than 4.5ml), chase it down with some water and store the small bottle

in the refrigerator. Some people have reported splitting the tablet in

half and dissolving it in 25ml of water to assure freshness every week.

-- .

,-._|\ Covington / Oz \ \_,--.x/ v

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Hey, thanks for that . One of those listed is pretty close to me.

I will call them and see what they say. My Specialist told me nobody

was compounding it here, but he may be wrong.

Jan

>

> >

> > ........... but nobody here in Australia is compounding it into low

> > dose capsules yet.

>

>

> --

> .

> ,-._|\ Covington

> / Oz \

> \_,--.x/

> v

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Your specialist was way wrong, but that's par for the course with LDN.

Strangely enough, even though I live near Melbourne I actually have some

LDN from The Green Dispensary near Adelaide (they are on that list),

courtesy of a woman on another list I am on for Motor Neurone Disease

whose husband got some LDN not long before he succumbed to his MND.

Compared to the guy over here where I had my first two lots compounded

The Green Dispensary was a heck of a lot cheaper too, plus from what I

remember of what she told me they were good on service. I can't

remember now what she told me they used as a filler and she is overseas

somewhere now, but I am pretty sure it wasn't lactose which is what the

local guy uses. I don't know of any allergies I have so don't need to

worry about that side of things.

atranceformer wrote:

>

> Hey, thanks for that . One of those listed is pretty close to me.

> I will call them and see what they say. My Specialist told me nobody

> was compounding it here, but he may be wrong.

>

> Jan

>

>

> > Hi Jan,

> >

> > See http://www.pccarx.com.au/Pharmacy.htm - it's probably not a

--

.

,-._|\ Covington

/ Oz \

\_,--.x/

v

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Hello Wayne,

Thanks for that. Someone kindly posted a link for the list of

compounding pharmacies in Australia. I've contacted the closest one

and was told that in Australia they only use Revia as the Naltrexone

in their compounded capsules. That's all they can get. Since there's

something in Revia that I can't tolerate, there's no point getting it

compounded. I need the pure naltrexone. Someone mentioned the best

fillers as being avicel, acidophillus and lactose. What is avicel?

Where does one get the pure naltrexone compounded capsules? USA?

Thanks for your assistance, and if you want to contact me direct, my

email is atranceformer @ . com without the spaces.

Jan.

> > I read somewhere, heaven knows where with all the web wandering I

> do, that the material the capsules are made with contains? There you

> go, I remember it was one of the things I try to avoid but which?

> >

> > So, maybe it wasn't the LDN but the capsules themselves that you

> reacted to?

> >

> > Just a thought, or actually just part of a thought.

> >

> > JT

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: atranceformer

> > low dose naltrexone

> > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 9:59 PM

> > Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone?

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > Hi Marcie,

> >

> > Thanks for your reply. CFS is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome also

known

> > as ME (myalgic encephomyelitis) or (Neuro-immune dysfunction

> > Syndrome). Similar to FM Fibromyalgia.

> >

> > MCS is Multiple Chemical Sensitivity which often develops with

CFS.

> > Stats show about 60% of CFS sufferers report MCS. Allergies

are easy

> > to diagnose because the reaction is so immediate, but

intolerances

> > are very complicated to diagnose because it can take up to 5 days

> > for some people to have the reaction appear as symptoms.

Therefore I

> > speculate the numbers are actually higher because many with CFS

> > don't realise they have food and chemical intolerances. I was

> > bedbound for the first year with CFS till I realised that

everyday

> > foods, dairy, wheat, soy, and amines which are in just about

> > everything that is tasty or fermented were causing debilitating

> > symptoms. Eliminating them for 2 weeks led to me seeing a vast

> > improvement to where I could even go out for an hour or so. My

> > migraines disappeared and I stopped having fits. A virus has

caused

> > a relapse to where I'm pretty much housebound again, but

thankfully

> > able to potter about. Like many of us with CFS, I catch every

virus

> > going, so I was very excited to read how people were trying

LDN and

> > finding they hadn't caught a virus since. I really thought it

would

> > help.

> >

> > I had no asthma for about a year before trying the LDN. No skin

> > flakiness or soreness present, but a history of this kind of

> > reaction to allergens. I had a headache and some brain fog

plus mild

> > balance problems and some cognitive deficits as part of the CFS

> > symptoms. These symptoms all were much worse on LDN and took 5-7

> > days to diminish after discontinuing the treatment. In fact the

> > asthma has lessened but still has not gone yet. I have a

history of

> > Orthostatic intolerance too (comes with the CFS) - Blood pressure

> > which drops dramatically upon standing, causing fainting and

fits.

> > Thankfully my BP did not appear to be affected by the LDN.

> >

> > Kind regards,

> > Jan.

> >

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Jan,

Avicel is microcrystalline cellulose.

I believe one can get LDN compounded from the pure chemical in Canada as well as USA.

Is the compounding pharmacy you contacted a PCCA pharmacy? If yes, OK, but if not let me send my list as I think PCCA pharmacists have access to pure naltrexone from PCCA.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----

From: atranceformer

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:55 AM

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone? JT

Hello Wayne,Thanks for that. Someone kindly posted a link for the list ofcompounding pharmacies in Australia. I've contacted the closest oneand was told that in Australia they only use Revia as the Naltrexonein their compounded capsules. That's all they can get. Since there'ssomething in Revia that I can't tolerate, there's no point getting itcompounded. I need the pure naltrexone. Someone mentioned the bestfillers as being avicel, acidophillus and lactose. What is avicel? Where does one get the pure naltrexone compounded capsules? USA? Thanks for your assistance, and if you want to contact me direct, myemail is atranceformer @ . com without the spaces.Jan.> > I read somewhere, heaven knows where with all the web wandering I> do, that the material the capsules are made with contains? There you> go, I remember it was one of the things I try to avoid but which?> > > > So, maybe it wasn't the LDN but the capsules themselves that you> reacted to?> > > > Just a thought, or actually just part of a thought.> > > > JT> > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: atranceformer > > low dose naltrexone > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 9:59 PM> > Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone?> > > > > > > > > > Hi Marcie,> > > > Thanks for your reply. CFS is Chronic Fatigue Syndrome alsoknown > > as ME (myalgic encephomyelitis) or (Neuro-immune dysfunction > > Syndrome). Similar to FM Fibromyalgia.> > > > MCS is Multiple Chemical Sensitivity which often develops withCFS. > > Stats show about 60% of CFS sufferers report MCS. Allergiesare easy > > to diagnose because the reaction is so immediate, butintolerances > > are very complicated to diagnose because it can take up to 5 days > > for some people to have the reaction appear as symptoms.Therefore I > > speculate the numbers are actually higher because many with CFS > > don't realise they have food and chemical intolerances. I was > > bedbound for the first year with CFS till I realised thateveryday > > foods, dairy, wheat, soy, and amines which are in just about > > everything that is tasty or fermented were causing debilitating > > symptoms. Eliminating them for 2 weeks led to me seeing a vast > > improvement to where I could even go out for an hour or so. My > > migraines disappeared and I stopped having fits. A virus hascaused > > a relapse to where I'm pretty much housebound again, butthankfully > > able to potter about. Like many of us with CFS, I catch everyvirus > > going, so I was very excited to read how people were tryingLDN and > > finding they hadn't caught a virus since. I really thought itwould > > help.> > > > I had no asthma for about a year before trying the LDN. No skin > > flakiness or soreness present, but a history of this kind of > > reaction to allergens. I had a headache and some brain fogplus mild > > balance problems and some cognitive deficits as part of the CFS > > symptoms. These symptoms all were much worse on LDN and took 5-7 > > days to diminish after discontinuing the treatment. In fact the > > asthma has lessened but still has not gone yet. I have ahistory of > > Orthostatic intolerance too (comes with the CFS) - Blood pressure > > which drops dramatically upon standing, causing fainting andfits. > > Thankfully my BP did not appear to be affected by the LDN. > > > > Kind regards,> > Jan.> >

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Thanks Wayne,

Clearly, there seems to be misinformation about Naltrexone

from doctors and chemists who don't have all the facts.

I'm so glad I found this group. I just heard from someone

in South Australia who gets her pure Naltrexone compounded

at a pharmacy right here in South Australia, so that would

seem to solve my little problem as they are close to home.

I'll post the details when they come to hand so they are on

record for any other South Aussies who need it.

I always welcome information and would welcome your

complete list, so do send it.

Many thanks,

Jan

--- Wayne Loveland <rxcenter@...> wrote:

> Jan,

> Avicel is microcrystalline cellulose.

> I believe one can get LDN compounded from the pure

> chemical in Canada as well as USA.

> Is the compounding pharmacy you contacted a PCCA

> pharmacy? If yes, OK, but if not let me send my list as

> I think PCCA pharmacists have access to pure naltrexone

> from PCCA.

> Wayne

> ----- Original Message -----

> From: atranceformer

> low dose naltrexone

> Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 9:55 AM

> Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to

> LDN Anyone? JT

>

>

>

> Hello Wayne,

>

> Thanks for that. Someone kindly posted a link for the

> list of

> compounding pharmacies in Australia. I've contacted

> the closest one

> and was told that in Australia they only use Revia as

> the Naltrexone

> in their compounded capsules. That's all they can get.

> Since there's

> something in Revia that I can't tolerate, there's no

> point getting it

> compounded. I need the pure naltrexone. Someone

> mentioned the best

> fillers as being avicel, acidophillus and lactose.

> What is avicel?

>

> Where does one get the pure naltrexone compounded

> capsules? USA?

>

> Thanks for your assistance, and if you want to contact

> me direct, my

> email is atranceformer @ . com without the spaces.

>

> Jan.

>

>

>

> > > I read somewhere, heaven knows where with all the

> web wandering I

> > do, that the material the capsules are made with

> contains? There you

> > go, I remember it was one of the things I try to

> avoid but which?

> > >

> > > So, maybe it wasn't the LDN but the capsules

> themselves that you

> > reacted to?

> > >

> > > Just a thought, or actually just part of a

> thought.

> > >

> > > JT

> > > ----- Original Message -----

> > > From: atranceformer

> > > low dose naltrexone

> > > Sent: Monday, October 18, 2004 9:59 PM

> > > Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse

> reactions to LDN Anyone?

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > Hi Marcie,

> > >

> > > Thanks for your reply. CFS is Chronic Fatigue

> Syndrome also

> known

> > > as ME (myalgic encephomyelitis) or

> (Neuro-immune dysfunction

> > > Syndrome). Similar to FM Fibromyalgia.

> > >

> > > MCS is Multiple Chemical Sensitivity which

> often develops with

> CFS.

> > > Stats show about 60% of CFS sufferers report

> MCS. Allergies

> are easy

> > > to diagnose because the reaction is so

> immediate, but

> intolerances

> > > are very complicated to diagnose because it can

> take up to 5 days

> > > for some people to have the reaction appear as

> symptoms.

> Therefore I

> > > speculate the numbers are actually higher

> because many with CFS

> > > don't realise they have food and chemical

> intolerances. I was

> > > bedbound for the first year with CFS till I

> realised that

> everyday

> > > foods, dairy, wheat, soy, and amines which are

> in just about

> > > everything that is tasty or fermented were

> causing debilitating

> > > symptoms. Eliminating them for 2 weeks led to

> me seeing a vast

> > > improvement to where I could even go out for an

> hour or so. My

> > > migraines disappeared and I stopped having

> fits. A virus has

> caused

> > > a relapse to where I'm pretty much housebound

> again, but

> thankfully

> > > able to potter about. Like many of us with

> CFS, I catch every

> virus

> > > going, so I was very excited to read how people

> were trying

> LDN and

> > > finding they hadn't caught a virus since. I

> really thought it

> would

> > > help.

> > >

> > > I had no asthma for about a year before trying

> the LDN. No skin

> > > flakiness or soreness present, but a history of

> this kind of

> > > reaction to allergens. I had a headache and

> some brain fog

> plus mild

> > > balance problems and some cognitive deficits as

> part of the CFS

> > > symptoms. These symptoms all were much worse on

> LDN and took 5-7

> > > days to diminish after discontinuing the

> treatment. In fact the

> > > asthma has lessened but still has not gone yet.

> I have a

> history of

> > > Orthostatic intolerance too (comes with the

> CFS) - Blood pressure

> > > which drops dramatically upon standing, causing

> fainting and

> fits.

> > > Thankfully my BP did not appear to be affected

> by

=== message truncated ===

___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW

Messenger - all new features - even more fun! http://uk.messenger.

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Wayne,

Which pharmacy are you with?

Miriam Edelweiss, N.P.

----- Original Message -----

From: Wayne Loveland

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:21 AM

Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone? JT

Jan, If you would send me your e mail addres I will send you a list of compounding pharmacies in Australia.

Wayne Loveland, compounding pharmacist

----- Original Message -----

From: atranceformer

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:16 AM

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone? JT

Thanks JT,Yes I wondered if it was something in the tablet other than the actualnaltrexone. The tab has a pale yellow colour coating, which means ithas an artificial colour, however being that the dose is so miniscule,it is pretty amazing it could have had that much affect. I was usingRevia 50mg which you have to cut one tablet into 16 tiny pieces to getthe usual dose. Someone from the CFS group suggested I try thecompounded capsules to see if it made any difference but nobody herein Australia is compounding it into low dose capsules yet. I can'treally justify the expense since the Revia (Naltrexone) cost me $200(ouch) and I can't use them. Wish I wasn't so super-sensitive. Ihave a long list of natural supplements that others with my symptomshave had great success with but that my malfuncioning body simplycannot tolerate. It is terribly frustrating and since I am unable towork, it really hurts to have spent more money on something I can'tuse. But I am really glad I tried it.Warm regards,Jan> > Jan,> > > > I am not sure what CFS & MCS are, but you are right that if we > could figure > > out why you reacted this way to LDN, it might help many people. > I, too, would > > have thought that you would have felt better. My question is > this; did you > > have none of these symptoms before starting LDN?> > > > Best of luck to you!> > > > Marcie> > > > > > In a message dated 10/18/2004 8:44:51 PM Central Daylight Time, > > atranceformer@y... writes:> > > > > > > I have CFS, MCS and am extremely sensitive to meds and many > foods. > > > I tried LDN recently but had such severe reactions to it that I > had > > > to stop. Persisting for 2 weeks and then reducing the low dose > by > > > half did not help enough for me to endure the treatment. My > > > reactions included, asthma (hadn't had any asthma for about a > year > > > before this), sore flaking skin, dramatically increased fatigue > and > > > balance problems, worsened headache and my cognitive problems > were > > > much worse. This surprised me because after reading everyone's > > > testimonials, I expected to feel better. I have since heard of > only > > > one other person who had almost identical symptoms from LDN, but > > > thought it worth posting here, in an effort to find out more. > > > > > >> > > > >

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The Prescription Center, LaCrosse, WI

----- Original Message -----

From: Miriam Edelweiss

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Friday, October 22, 2004 11:45 AM

Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone? JT

Wayne,

Which pharmacy are you with?

Miriam Edelweiss, N.P.

----- Original Message -----

From: Wayne Loveland

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Thursday, October 21, 2004 7:21 AM

Subject: Re: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone? JT

Jan, If you would send me your e mail addres I will send you a list of compounding pharmacies in Australia.

Wayne Loveland, compounding pharmacist

----- Original Message -----

From: atranceformer

low dose naltrexone

Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2004 5:16 AM

Subject: [low dose naltrexone] Re: Adverse reactions to LDN Anyone? JT

Thanks JT,Yes I wondered if it was something in the tablet other than the actualnaltrexone. The tab has a pale yellow colour coating, which means ithas an artificial colour, however being that the dose is so miniscule,it is pretty amazing it could have had that much affect. I was usingRevia 50mg which you have to cut one tablet into 16 tiny pieces to getthe usual dose. Someone from the CFS group suggested I try thecompounded capsules to see if it made any difference but nobody herein Australia is compounding it into low dose capsules yet. I can'treally justify the expense since the Revia (Naltrexone) cost me $200(ouch) and I can't use them. Wish I wasn't so super-sensitive. Ihave a long list of natural supplements that others with my symptomshave had great success with but that my malfuncioning body simplycannot tolerate. It is terribly frustrating and since I am unable towork, it really hurts to have spent more money on something I can'tuse. But I am really glad I tried it.Warm regards,Jan> > Jan,> > > > I am not sure what CFS & MCS are, but you are right that if we > could figure > > out why you reacted this way to LDN, it might help many people. > I, too, would > > have thought that you would have felt better. My question is > this; did you > > have none of these symptoms before starting LDN?> > > > Best of luck to you!> > > > Marcie> > > > > > In a message dated 10/18/2004 8:44:51 PM Central Daylight Time, > > atranceformer@y... writes:> > > > > > > I have CFS, MCS and am extremely sensitive to meds and many > foods. > > > I tried LDN recently but had such severe reactions to it that I > had > > > to stop. Persisting for 2 weeks and then reducing the low dose > by > > > half did not help enough for me to endure the treatment. My > > > reactions included, asthma (hadn't had any asthma for about a > year > > > before this), sore flaking skin, dramatically increased fatigue > and > > > balance problems, worsened headache and my cognitive problems > were > > > much worse. This surprised me because after reading everyone's > > > testimonials, I expected to feel better. I have since heard of > only > > > one other person who had almost identical symptoms from LDN, but > > > thought it worth posting here, in an effort to find out more. > > > > > >> > > > >

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