Re: adrenals and stress

[Guest guest]

What do you symptoms feel like mo? I get particulary anxious and nervey and feelings of weakness and lightheaded as if I need to eat, my stomach feels 'nervy' and I feel shaky, this has got worse since stopping my thyroxine so am hoping that will get better now I have restarted it, does the HC help you at all and how long have you took it? I am only 2 weeks on it and did think it would kick in almost instantly but it hasnt.--- On Thu, 4/9/08, Mo Osborne moosborne@...

I think what happens is that our cortisol rises to the occasion when we have something stressful to deal with in our lives. So we 'cope'.And then it lowers after the event.With chronic and severe stress it remains high and so our cortisol reserve gets depleted and hey presto! we have adrenal fatigue that needs supplementing.MoI went through a divorce and looked after my 2 children alone for 3 yrs so probably stress was a factor back then but like I said I always felt like I coped ok. I also dont allow myself any 'me' time and havent for a very long time.> Everyone comes before me which is my doing I know.

[Guest guest]

I am so worn out I can hardly think what my symptoms are , all

the usual ones I suppose as I am not yet optimised. This is primarily

because of stress and it further lowering my cortisol I think.

This is what I am saying to you, just taking the pills is not

necessarily going to work magic for you, we must attend to changing

our ways

Mo

>

> What do you symptoms feel like mo? I get particulary anxious and

nervey and feelings of weakness and lightheaded as if I need to

eat, my stomach feels 'nervy' and I feel shaky, this has got worse

since stopping my thyroxine so am hoping that will get better now I

have restarted it, does the HC help you at all and how long have you

took it? I am only 2 weeks on it and did think it would kick in

almost instantly but it hasnt.

>

>

>

> --- On Thu, 4/9/08, Mo Osborne moosborne@...

>

>

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> I think what happens is that our cortisol rises to the occasion

when we have something

> stressful to deal with in our lives. So we 'cope'.

> And then it lowers after the event.

> With chronic and severe stress it remains high and so our cortisol

reserve gets depleted

> and hey presto! we have adrenal fatigue that needs supplementing.

>

> Mo

>

> I went through a divorce and looked after my 2 children alone for 3

yrs so probably stress

> was a factor back then but like I said I always felt like I coped

ok. I also dont allow myself

> any 'me' time and havent for a very long time.

> > Everyone comes before me which is my doing I know.

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think anyone else can answer that for you .

Mo

>

> How do we change our ways? I cant just sit down or take to my bed

and give up, its just not me. I go to bed around 10 everynight, I do

what I have to in the day and work part time, very hard to change

things really

>

>

>

> --- On Thu, 4/9/08, Mo Osborne <moosborne@...>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I am so worn out I can hardly think what my symptoms are , all

> the usual ones I suppose as I am not yet optimised. This is

primarily

> because of stress and it further lowering my cortisol I think.

> This is what I am saying to you, just taking the pills is not

> necessarily going to work magic for you, we must attend to changing

> our ways

>

> Mo

>

> >

> > What do you symptoms feel like mo? I get particulary anxious and

> nervey and feelings of weakness and lightheaded as if I need to

> eat, my stomach feels 'nervy' and I feel shaky, this has

got worse

> since stopping my thyroxine so am hoping that will get better now I

> have restarted it, does the HC help you at all and how long have

you

> took it? I am only 2 weeks on it and did think it would kick in

> almost instantly but it hasnt.

> >

> >

> >

> > --- On Thu, 4/9/08, Mo Osborne moosborne@ .

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > I think what happens is that our cortisol rises to the occasion

> when we have something

> > stressful to deal with in our lives. So we 'cope'.

> > And then it lowers after the event.

> > With chronic and severe stress it remains high and so our

cortisol

> reserve gets depleted

> > and hey presto! we have adrenal fatigue that needs supplementing.

> >

> > Mo

> >

> > I went through a divorce and looked after my 2 children alone for

3

> yrs so probably stress

> > was a factor back then but like I said I always felt like I coped

> ok. I also dont allow myself

> > any 'me' time and havent for a very long time.

> > > Everyone comes before me which is my doing I know.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

No I didn't . Well according to the ASI anyway and I am not too

sure that they are totally reliable.

In Dr Lowe's newsletter this week he said that being hypoT causes the

liver to malfunction, clear cortisol more slowly is what he said, so

that there is more cortisol in the body fluids than there would be if

there was no hypoT.

He said this often means that the ASI gives a false reading because

the cortisol levels will be higher because of the slow clearance.

This could bring someone with very low cortisol into the range and

those low in the range would look like they had more cortisol that

they actually did have.

If I understood him right, that is what he was saying.

And if I did understood him right then that potentially negates the

ASI test for peeps who are hypoT or with liver issues and I have both.

So my ASI may have given the wrong impression.

On top of which I did not know that I should not have set the alarm

to take the 8 am one as my usual time of waking at that time was

about 10.30 or 11 a.m. so my 8 am cortisol would actually have been

more like about 5 am for an 8 am riser. With the knock-on effect that

noon would have been approx 9 am and 4pm sample 1 pm etc.

Mo

> Did you have a really bad adrenal profile? All my readings were

below range expect the midnight one and that was above range. It was

obvious by looking at them that I just wasnt making enough cortisone,

the NAE wasnt going to help me produce more but its a good glandular

support but didnt effect me that much, I have restarted it today

though and take it alongside the Hc

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> that there is more cortisol in the body fluids than there would be if

> there was no hypoT.

Mo

I think you may have explained soemthing for me that has been

perplexing me for a while.

All along I have had classic adrenal symptoms, alongside the hypo ones,

and had lost weight while ill! In fact it was finding out about that

which brought me to TPA on a web search.

However I had ordered a salivary ASI test kit, and in the meantime,

managed to persuade my GP to test my cortisol levels in my blood. So I

decided to take the ASI on the same day as my bloods.

The results came back as v.low in the range for blood cortisol for the

time of day (9:30am), but my ASI had 2 normal and 2 elevated. I always

wondered why they were so different (and I still felt the ASI was wrong

due to symptoms). On the same day my T4 and T3 were under range so I

guess my body was very hypoT!

I don't feel so bad about taking a small dose of prednisone every other

day now!

Leah x

[Guest guest]

Hmm. Interesting.

Some say the blood test for cortisol is not reliable, looks like neither of them

are from what

Dr Lowe said.

Mo

>

> The results came back as v.low in the range for blood cortisol for the

> time of day (9:30am), but my ASI had 2 normal and 2 elevated. I always

> wondered why they were so different (and I still felt the ASI was wrong

> due to symptoms). On the same day my T4 and T3 were under range so I

> guess my body was very hypoT!

>

> I don't feel so bad about taking a small dose of prednisone every other

> day now!

>

> Leah x

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hmm. Interesting.

> Some say the blood test for cortisol is not reliable, looks like

neither of them are from what

> Dr Lowe said.

>

Mo would you mind putting on alink so I can have a read for myself?

Had a look but Dr Lowe's site is so huge I can't find it...

Thanks

Leah x

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi Leah

>

> Cortisol blood tests are not reliable. It is usually done at

8.00a.m. or early in the morning. Cortisol should be tested when you

first wake 9whatever time that is) and three more times at intervals

of four hours so it can be seen what the output is throughout the

day. You need a 24 hour salivary adrenal test - which of course the

NHS fail to recognise.

>

Hi Sheila

I actually had already had one! A lot of the origanal to this message

was cut off, but Mo had posted Dr Lowe's opinion that salivary tests

aren't reliable if you are hypothyroid. I was hoping to read it for

myself, as I am struggling with the difficulty that I had Blood and

salivary tests for cortisol on the same day and the salivaries were

over range, but the bloods were rock bottom (despite being taken at

9am). As my symptoms all along have suggested sluggish or fatigued

adrenals, and adrenal supprt has helped, I am trying to justify my

decision to take them. If you take the salivary results in isolation

then the steroids are the last thing I should be doing...

Leah x

[Guest guest]

> I wont just stop it, I know I cant just do that so dont worry, I am

Hi ,

I would echo what Sheila said. If it was the thread I was talking

about my adrenals which was making you thinking of stopping then

please don't. I think the salivary tests being unreliable was

relating to them being artificially high in some cases. Clearly if

yours were low this was not an issue.

Believe me - if I could get to a Dr P clinic near me I would.

Unfortunately the one near me is booked up with a waiting list and

there are no more less then 4 hours drive away...So please trust what

he says...

I think , you need to just give yourself a bit of time. I think

you just need to expect to feel a bit crappy for a few more weeks at

least until your T4 starts kicking back in...

Leah x

[Guest guest]

>

> I was hoping the T4 might kick in quite quickly as I want to

increase it fairly soon, certainly dont want to wait 6 weeks before I

do that.

> I think it is the thought of my fast approaching holiday to the US

that is making want to rush things and get sorted, I am sure anyone

can understand that? I really dont want to be in Florida and not be

able to enjoy it, I might never go there again.

> Another thought I have had also, everywhere I have read about HC it

says the person on it should carry a steriod card in case of any

accidents etc, I have never been told this and find it quite worrying

to be honest

>

Hi

I personally feel a dose raise of thyroxine at about week 5. It is

standard to raise every 6 weeks with thyroxine, because it takes a

while to get things into our system. I can't remember when you said

the holiday is, so don't know how much time you have left to play

with.

If you are fairly sure that you will be on a higher dose of levo (and

if you were on 150mcg before I expect you will), I expect you could

start to raise the dose again by a small amount in 2- 3 weeks. This

dose raise still won't kick in for 4 - 6 weeks either so it may not

make the difference...I'm not an expert though so perhaps it may be

best to email Dr P and see what he says.

I can totally understand why you want to feel well, and I would

too... I was rushing myself a while back after a thyroid meds break

becasue I was a matron of honour at my sisters wedding. I REALLY

wanted to be OK. And I was - sort of. I wasn't much better, but I

managed it and I had a good time. Hopefully if it is warm in Florida

that will automatically help your metabolism anyway and you won't

need as much TH as you do here...especially with the summer we've had!

Leah x

[Guest guest]

Hi

You need to read the information on

http://www.pituitary.org.uk/content/view/329/166/

regarding your HC.

Chris

>

> Another thought I have had also, everywhere I have read

about HC it says the person on it should carry a steriod card in

case of any accidents etc, I have never been told this and find it

quite worrying to be honest

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05/09/2008 19:05

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Sorry I did not mean to worry you with the link, I know absolutely

nothing about HC and just thought it might help answer the questions

you were asking.

Chris

>

> Is this necessary when this will be only a short term treatment

with HC? I am flying to America in just over 5 weeks time, what do I

do? I am really confused and upset about this now, my doctor doesnt

know I take HC and probably wouldnt aprove anyway, I guess I need to

speak to Dr P again about this

>

>

>

> --- On Sun, 7/9/08, chrischids <no_reply >

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> Hi

>

> You need to read the information on

> http://www.pituitar y.org.uk/ content/view/ 329/166/

> regarding your HC.

>

> Chris

>

> >

> > Another thought I have had also, everywhere I have read

> about HC it says the person on it should carry a steriod card in

> case of any accidents etc, I have never been told this and find it

> quite worrying to be honest

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> > No virus found in this incoming message.

> > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg. com

> > Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.17/1655 - Release Date:

> 05/09/2008 19:05

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Would doctors think to rummage through all the cards in your wallet in

the case of, say, a road accident? Do you need to wear a bracelet to

alert them to the fact that you might be carrying a steroid card?

What kind of thing would you put on the bracelet?

Thanks,

Miriam

>

> It is very important that you always carry a Steroid Card with you

in the event that you taken ill and are seen by another Doctor. Cards

are available from local pharmacy.

> You can also wear one of the Medic Alert pendants/bracelets which

are nice looking

http://www.icegems.co.uk/?gclid=CMTy_7ysyZUCFQ86EAodhWbKhg

>

> Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam

I only take thyroxine, but just in case I'm asked for it(and I have

been many times) at the chemist I keep my medical excemption

cerificate in my purse and also keep the repeat part of my

prescription in there too otherwise I would lose it.

I guess in the case of an emergency/accident either might come in

handy.

Chris

> >

> > It is very important that you always carry a Steroid Card with

you

> in the event that you taken ill and are seen by another Doctor.

Cards

> are available from local pharmacy.

>

> > You can also wear one of the Medic Alert pendants/bracelets which

> are nice looking

> http://www.icegems.co.uk/?gclid=CMTy_7ysyZUCFQ86EAodhWbKhg

> >

> > Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Im taking Armour and 6 Nutri Adrenal but I am Dr P diagnosed not NHS

diagnosed so there is no mention of my thyroid problem on my medical

notes. If I have to go into hospital, where do I stand regarding the

medication I am taking.

That is the main reason why I want my GP and endo to acknowledge my

secondary thyroid condition which is a conversion disfunction.

B

[Guest guest]

Hi

Do you not get a letter or anything saying what you've been diagnosed

with and prescribed that goes on your GP notes?

Chris

>

> Im taking Armour and 6 Nutri Adrenal but I am Dr P diagnosed not NHS

> diagnosed so there is no mention of my thyroid problem on my medical

> notes. If I have to go into hospital, where do I stand regarding the

> medication I am taking.

>

> B

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

........Do you not get a letter or anything saying what you've been

diagnosed with and prescribed that goes on your GP notes?

I have the notes from Dr P and the test results from NPTech -

but.....my doctor and the endo I saw at the beginning of this year

dismissed the results, and Dr P, as being non orthodox.

Although I have been diagnosed by Dr P and have the NPTech results to

prove it - unless I have been diagnosed by an NHS doctor my medical

notes will not show that I have a thyroid problem. And that is why I am

in the process of complaining to the hospital about the endo.

B

[Guest guest]

Hi

Aha I can understand your concern.

What happened when you complained? Sorry if you've already said but

I missed it.

Chris

>

> Hi

>

>> Although I have been diagnosed by Dr P and have the NPTech

results to

> prove it - unless I have been diagnosed by an NHS doctor my

medical

> notes will not show that I have a thyroid problem. And that is why

I am

> in the process of complaining to the hospital about the endo.

>

> B

>

[Guest guest]

If I was taking HC, I would opt for a bracelet. All the info is there and easily seen, especially when taking your pulse. You could get a card from your pharmacist and note from that what information you would need on it.

A good point about rummagint through all your cards - my wallet is so fat I can't even find the card I want - and I don't me that it is stuffed with notes *grin*

Luv - Sheila

Would doctors think to rummage through all the cards in your wallet inthe case of, say, a road accident? Do you need to wear a bracelet toalert them to the fact that you might be carrying a steroid card? What kind of thing would you put on the bracelet?Thanks,Miriam

..

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.6.18/1658 - Release Date: 07/09/2008 15:30

[Guest guest]

So sorry to hear about your poor dog, I loved my dogs to bits and it

is really stressful when there is anything wrong with them I know

About the hc, I only take 2.5/2.5/1.25/1.25 very low dose but seems to

work for me and gives me room to raise on Armour raises without

getting too much. I know it is very bitter but I take it sublingually

as my guts are a tad bad and I get really bad soreness of the GI tract.

Good luck hon

lotsa luv and God bless

Dawnx

[Guest guest]

What would you put on one of those bracelets? A general statement

such as " I am taking cortisol and thyroid medication " or something

specific such as current dosages?

Thanks,

Miriam

>

> If I was taking HC, I would opt for a bracelet. All the info is

there and easily seen, especially when taking your pulse. You could

get a card from your pharmacist and note from that what information

you would need on it.

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam

'Medicalert' can provide information

Bob

> What would you put on one of those bracelets? A general statement

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

I sent a letter last month to the complaints people at the hospital.

They replied to my letter saying they had consulted Dr R and he told

them he did everything in a proper way and that I did not have a

thyroid related problem.

So I have sent another letter because Dr R's version of events is so

totally wrong that it makes my blood boil. But then he would say that -

after all he cannot admit he is wrong - what would that do to his

reputation?

I await a reply to my second letter.

B

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

The endo I saw recently insisted in his letter to my GP ( & me) that I get a medical bracelet detailing this. I bought one from http://www.icegems.co.uk/925-sterling-silver-medical-id-bracelet-5-p.asp I found this one particularly good as the disc is not a dangling one & so does not get in the way. I had written on it in 4 lines - cortisol deficient, hydrocortisone dependant, hypothyroid & my thyroid doses. I did not put doses of hc on it as I do not think them relevant. The endo also insisted that I get a syringe with a 100mg dose for emergencies, although I would not carry this around, but it could be useful to have at home in an emergency. The bracelet would instantly alert medical staff to give this dose while I am out & about in an emergency.

Pls don't panic about this. I am sure you have not been on it long enough for this to be a problem and I had been on 20mg for 3.5 years before getting my bracelet (not that I am suggesting you wait this long!).

Val

Another thought I have had also, everywhere I have read about HC it says the person on it should carry a steriod card in case of any accidents etc, I have never been told this and find it quite worrying to be honest

[Guest guest]

Can you not get Dr P to write to your GP detailing a "treatment plan" with your HC? This would bring your GP on board with what you are doing. My GP does not understand hc but is happy to have a treatment plan from whoever is treating me & will then actually prescribe the hc for me.

Val

Is this necessary when this will be only a short term treatment with HC? I am flying to America in just over 5 weeks time, what do I do? I am really confused and upset about this now, my doctor doesnt know I take HC and probably wouldnt aprove anyway, I guess I need to speak to Dr P again about this