Re: GP refused me Oestrogel..

[Guest guest]

Over replaced with hypo symptoms????? Sounds like my GP. And now

you know the reason why I havent been near him for most of the last 5

years! How frustrating for you.

I dont know enough to know why you'd have a 2 point reduction in T3

levels except to suggest that since blood tests are just a measure of

hormone levels at a SPECIFIC moment in time, it could just be a normal

variation.

Is it worthwhile trying to find an oestrogen cream on the web? I did

look into it once and found one called Estro325 from the USA.

(www.Estro325.com) Dont know how good or bad it is, but at least you

get the opportunity of trying it out for yourself.

My fingers and toes are crossed that you'll get some relief real

soon.Marie xx

[Guest guest]

Hi Mo

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=188570

THYROID HORMONE RESISTANCE, GENERALIZED, AUTOSOMAL DOMINANT; GRTH

This may not occur on Mars but it certainly does on earth

Ask your doctor to check his/her facts.

Put 'Thyroid Hormone Resistance' into the OMIM search function:- 52 topics come up.

Bob

>> just now because my TSH is suppressed. Says I am over-replaced on > thyroid hormone and he would not consider giving another hormone until > my TSH is normal. Groan.....> My FT3 is well over the range, though two points down on the same test > of two weeks earlier with no change in meds..... Hmmm.> My FT3 is well over the range with no hyper symptoms, just hypo with > low temps.> I said to doc this could be because of cell resistance and he said > there is no such thing.> > Mo>

[Guest guest]

Thanks petal, I will check out the link you sent.

I said to the duffer (LOL) that I could not be hyperthyroid as I have

absolutely NO symptoms of being so.......

and he said LOL, well your TSH says it all.

What can you do with them?

Oh yes, avoid them. Aha.....

Mo

>

> Over replaced with hypo symptoms????? Sounds like my GP. And now

> you know the reason why I havent been near him for most of the last

> 5 years! How frustrating for you.

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

Thanks for these Bob, I will send them on to the Young Whippersnapper

GP

He said the TSH would not be suppressed if I was not getting enough

thyroid into my cells....

Mo

>

> Hi Mo

>

> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=188570

> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=188570>

>

> THYROID HORMONE RESISTANCE, GENERALIZED, AUTOSOMAL DOMINANT; GRTH

> This may not occur on Mars but it certainly does on earth

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

I have just read the choose and book paper. It seems there are only two available clinics. The ones in London have - not available - against them.

So it is Papworth at 40 miles away or St. Heliers which is also about 40 miles away but round the M25 which can be quite horrendous - especially if you have a time to get somewhere.

So they have given me the name of 5 hospitals to choose from, but only two of them are available.

So transport will be no problem because my husband can take me there.

Lilian

[Guest guest]

>

> just now because my TSH is suppressed.

Did he agree that your oestrogen was ridiculously low though? What did

he have to say about the progesterone range that was missing? Did he

say anything useful at all about the sex hormone testing?

[Guest guest]

Once again Mo, a doctor watching his back rather than keeping us well. I hope the gel helps though.

Lilian

[Guest guest]

Yes I agree Lilian, I feel this is the real reason for the refusal.

As he is convinced I am hyper, I wonder if there is any evidence to

suggest that oestrogen replacement is contraindicated in this scenario?

He said ( for the THIRD time in 12 months) that he wants me to come off

all thyroid meds as I am not hypothyroid according to their initial TSH

test of three years ago).

And I feel he may also be trying to bribe me into doing this as a

recent visit from me to the M.E. consultant culminated in this

consultant writing to the G.P. to say I should not be taking thyroid

meds as this was what was causing my rapid pulse and need for

betablockers which, in turnn, he was convinced was causing my fatigue.

Mo

>

> Once again Mo, a doctor watching his back rather than keeping us

well. I hope the gel helps though.

>

> Lilian

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mo

Did you have rapid pulse and fatigue before taking thyroid meds? If

not, have you considered he maybe right as these are symptoms of hyper.

Chris

I should not be taking thyroid

> meds as this was what was causing my rapid pulse and need for

> betablockers which, in turnn, he was convinced was causing my

fatigue.

>

> Mo

[Guest guest]

>

> No he did not respond when I said it was extremely low but launched

> into a diatribe about how dangerous HRT was and that I would not

>thank him if I got breast cancer. He went on about how the risk

>increased with age. I said surely low-dose would pose less risk and

>he reluctanly agreed that that was true.

> No , he said nothing useful at all except to confirm my own

> diagnosis of rosacea and give me a script for gel for that. I read

> since that this condition is inflammatory and can be caused

>by ???? >you guessed it - low oestrogen.

> I left in tears. Now I don't know what to do.

He is obviously not up to date about HRT if it is used sensibly in

response to symptoms/low test results. I agree that it has it's

risks but for him to be so dismissive with you about it when

agreeing your estrogen was indeed low and that a small dose would

pose less risk is nothing short of appalling and disrepectful. He

could have discussed it all with you at least.

I know myself that the smallest dose of estrogen can make a HUGE

difference if it's what your body needs. But then I guess that that

was his argument, that with your thryoid hormones apparently in

overdrive he doesn't think you do need it.

I know ovarian and thyroid hormones inter-react but I don't know

enough to know if there are legitimate grounds for him saying what

he has. Although I would think if estrogen binds thyroid that in

your situation a little estrogen wouldn't be bad thing, as long as

you weren't taking it for that purpose but because your estrogen

levels were too low.

I'm ever so sorry Mo that you were treated as you were and wish I

had something more positive to suggest. Will you try the oestrogen

again regardless?

x

[Guest guest]

>hyper ... I wonder if there is any evidence to suggest that

>oestrogen replacement is contraindicated in this scenario? ... in

>this consultant writing to the G.P. to say I should not be taking

>thyroid meds as this was what was causing my rapid pulse and need

>for betablockers which, in turnn, he was convinced was causing my

>fatigue.

I don't know if this will help or not Mo, sometimes too much info

can be confusing rather than helpful but in Vliet's book it says:

" If thyroid is added too quickly before estradiol is optimal, it is

like someone pouring gasoline on a fire! Yout heart races, your mind

races and, you are nor sleeping and your head pounds. Not much fun.

It can become complicated when working with the ovarian and thyroid

hormones at the same time, since they affect each other in a variety

of ways and the symptoms of both too high and too low often mimic

each other. Therefore I prefer to stabilise the ovarian hormones

with whatever approach a woman prefers, and then work with the

thyroid balancing - unless the TSH is so high that the

hypothyroidism simply must be treated right away.

It can be quite a balancing act, and I often find I have to combine

our " science " (lab tests) along with a lot of " art " (clinical

judgement and listening to woman)in order to decide what to do at

any given time. "

Again, Vliet's views are not held by everyone and she's not too keen

on Armour(!), but she does seem to have a good grasp on women's

hormonal issues. Anyway, I thought you might be interested in what

she had to say even if you eventually dismiss it as unfeasible in

your particular situation, or even as unfeasible altogether!

Have you ever tried progesterone?

x

[Guest guest]

On reflection I think he was just protecting his own back.

The problems with HRT were to do with the mare's urine stuff wasn't it?

And also he has been trying to get me completely off thyroid hormones

for some time now so this is probably a bribe/incentive. Or so he

thinks....

I will just go ahead on my own with this but there is a problem in that

I then cannot go to him for testing and the saliva test has not proven

its worth as far as I am concerned.

Mo

>

> I know ovarian and thyroid hormones inter-react but I don't know

> enough to know if there are legitimate grounds for him saying what

> he has. Although I would think if estrogen binds thyroid that in

> your situation a little estrogen wouldn't be bad thing, as long as

> you weren't taking it for that purpose but because your estrogen

> levels were too low.

>

> I'm ever so sorry Mo that you were treated as you were and wish I

> had something more positive to suggest. Will you try the oestrogen

> again regardless?

>

> x

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that , very interesting indeed.

I did try prog. cream during the meno and it did nothing for me.

When I had a sex hormone saliva test done two years ago, it came back

as high prog. relative to oestrogen. Which puzzled me.

And then I thought that this was probably why it did not help me in

meno when the patches of both hormones did when I gave in and tried

them. They worked within 3 hours, lifting bad depression and

teariness.

Mo

>

>

>

>

> >hyper ... I wonder if there is any evidence to suggest that

> >oestrogen replacement is contraindicated in this scenario? ... in

> >this consultant writing to the G.P. to say I should not be taking

> >thyroid meds as this was what was causing my rapid pulse and need

> >for betablockers which, in turnn, he was convinced was causing my

> >fatigue.

>

> I don't know if this will help or not Mo, sometimes too much info

> can be confusing rather than helpful but in Vliet's book it says:

>

> " If thyroid is added too quickly before estradiol is optimal, it is

> like someone pouring gasoline on a fire! Yout heart races, your

mind

> races and, you are nor sleeping and your head pounds. Not much fun.

>

> It can become complicated when working with the ovarian and thyroid

> hormones at the same time, since they affect each other in a

variety

> of ways and the symptoms of both too high and too low often mimic

> each other. Therefore I prefer to stabilise the ovarian hormones

> with whatever approach a woman prefers, and then work with the

> thyroid balancing - unless the TSH is so high that the

> hypothyroidism simply must be treated right away.

>

> It can be quite a balancing act, and I often find I have to combine

> our " science " (lab tests) along with a lot of " art " (clinical

> judgement and listening to woman)in order to decide what to do at

> any given time. "

>

> Again, Vliet's views are not held by everyone and she's not too

keen

> on Armour(!), but she does seem to have a good grasp on women's

> hormonal issues. Anyway, I thought you might be interested in what

> she had to say even if you eventually dismiss it as unfeasible in

> your particular situation, or even as unfeasible altogether!

>

> Have you ever tried progesterone?

>

> x

>

[Guest guest]

I did, of course, mean the GP NOT the VET!!!! LOLOLOL

Mo

>

> I have just emailed the vet and asked him to reconsider in light

of

> the fact that my only possible 'hyper' symptoms ie fast pulse and

> hyperT, were a thing of the past and I explained that I had not had

> the chance to tell him this when I saw him yesterday.

> I said that I would so much prefer to have his cooperation in

> monitoring my use of Oestrogel.

> Hee hee, that makes it kind of clear I am planning to go ahead

> anyway, don't you think folks?

>

> Mo

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

HEY that is a VERY good point Sheila, I never thought of that!!!!

I went in on Tuesday to give blood for sex hormones and the nurse

said the GP has asked for a TFT as well.

I said there is no need to do that as I had an FT3 done last week

(Lab21) and I said I will give the GP those results and save the NHS

some pennies.

So I was surprised when the GP started to give me thyroid results as

well as the estradiol, prog. etc. I never thought about this aspect

of things Sheila, very well spotted I say!!!

I gave the bloods at 11 am and had my last T3 dose about 7.30 pm the

night before. So that was outside the recommended timescale for

starters.

There is supposed to be 10-12 hours before taking last dose T3 and

testing isn't there?

BUT... the FT3 from Lab 21 showed an FT3 of 10.1 (that was with the

10 hr gap) and I was surprised that the GP's test was LOWER than this

as there had been no change of meds.

Well it would lower because of the time lapse I suppose.

I am confused......

Mo

>

>

>

> Did you take your thyroid hormones before you had your blood drawn

Mo or did

> you stop for 24 hours first?

>

>

>

> Sheila

>

> just now because my TSH is suppressed. Says I am over-replaced on

> thyroid hormone and he would not consider giving another hormone

until

> my TSH is normal. Groan.....

> My FT3 is well over the range, though two points down on the same

test

> of two weeks earlier with no change in meds..... Hmmm.

> My FT3 is well over the range with no hyper symptoms, just hypo

with

> low temps.

> I said to doc this could be because of cell resistance and he said

> there is no such thing.

>

> Mo

>

[Guest guest]

> I will just go ahead on my own with this but there is a problem in

>that I then cannot go to him for testing and the saliva test has not

>proven its worth as far as I am concerned.

I know it's expensive but Lab 21 do sex hormone blood tests. I had

mine done there.

[Guest guest]

Mo do you mean doctor? And not the vet like you said!!-

I have just emailed the vet and asked him to reconsider in light of the fact that my only possible 'hyper' symptoms ie fast pulse and hyperT, were a thing of the past and I explained that I had not had the chance to tell him this when I saw him yesterday.I said that I would so much prefer to have his cooperation in monitoring my use of Oestrogel.Hee hee, that makes it kind of clear I am planning to go ahead anyway, don't you think folks?Mo>> > > > >hyper ... I wonder if there is any evidence to suggest that > >oestrogen replacement is contraindicated in this scenario? ... in > >this consultant writing to the G.P. to say I should not be taking > >thyroid meds as this

was what was causing my rapid pulse and need > >for betablockers which, in turnn, he was convinced was causing my > >fatigue.> > I don't know if this will help or not Mo, sometimes too much info > can be confusing rather than helpful but in Vliet's book it says:> > "If thyroid is added too quickly before estradiol is optimal, it is > like someone pouring gasoline on a fire! Yout heart races, your mind > races and, you are nor sleeping and your head pounds. Not much fun.> > It can become complicated when working with the ovarian and thyroid > hormones at the same time, since they affect each other in a variety > of ways and the symptoms of both too high and too low often mimic > each other. Therefore I prefer to stabilise the ovarian hormones > with whatever approach a woman prefers, and then work with the > thyroid balancing -

unless the TSH is so high that the > hypothyroidism simply must be treated right away. > > It can be quite a balancing act, and I often find I have to combine > our "science" (lab tests) along with a lot of "art" (clinical > judgement and listening to woman)in order to decide what to do at > any given time."> > Again, Vliet's views are not held by everyone and she's not too keen > on Armour(!), but she does seem to have a good grasp on women's > hormonal issues. Anyway, I thought you might be interested in what > she had to say even if you eventually dismiss it as unfeasible in > your particular situation, or even as unfeasible altogether! > > Have you ever tried progesterone?> > x>

[Guest guest]

I thought so Mo!! lol

I did, of course, mean the GP NOT the VET!!!! LOLOLOLMo>> I have just emailed the vet and asked him to reconsider in light of > the fact that my only possible 'hyper' symptoms ie fast pulse and > hyperT, were a thing of the past and I explained that I had not had > the chance to tell him this when I saw him yesterday.> I said that I would so much prefer to have his cooperation in > monitoring my use of Oestrogel.> Hee hee, that makes it kind of clear I am planning to go ahead > anyway, don't you think folks?> > Mo[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

This is the saliva test to which I am referring , done by Lab

21, which showed oestradiol through the roof whereas the blood test was

undetectable!

Mo

ps Lab 21 have refunded me.

Mo

>

>

>

>

> > I will just go ahead on my own with this but there is a problem in

> >that I then cannot go to him for testing and the saliva test has not

> >proven its worth as far as I am concerned.

>

>

> I know it's expensive but Lab 21 do sex hormone blood tests. I had

> mine done there.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes I meant the GP LOL

Of course the mistake is easily explained in that I am having exactly

the same 'orrible problems with the vet with my hypoT doggie, Young

Blondie.

Their first suggestion was to kill him because of his health issues.

Then they refused to test for hypoT. So I bypassed them and sent his

bllods to Dodds in California (world expert on canine hypoT).

diagnosed him and the local vet refused to accept the diagnosis.

Why??

Well because his TSH was OK of course!

I got them to give him a trial and he did not improve except initally

before the feedback loop kicked in I suppose).

Since then they have kept him undermedicated and miserable. They

would not increase to Dodd's recommendation or to the usual

method by bodyweight and all of this resistance I am sure is because

they are so ill-informed just like my GP.

So you will understand my mistake!!! Hard to tell 'em apart really!

Mo

ps and like my own case, I have had to take my courage in both hands

and treat Young Blondie myself!

>

> Mo do you mean doctor? And not the vet like you said!!

>

>

>

> -

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> I have just emailed the vet and asked him to reconsider in light of

> the fact that my only possible 'hyper' symptoms ie fast pulse and

> hyperT, were a thing of the past and I explained that I had not had

> the chance to tell him this when I saw him yesterday.

> I said that I would so much prefer to have his cooperation in

> monitoring my use of Oestrogel.

> Hee hee, that makes it kind of clear I am planning to go ahead

> anyway, don't you think folks?

>

> Mo

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > >hyper ... I wonder if there is any evidence to suggest that

> > >oestrogen replacement is contraindicated in this scenario? ...

in

> > >this consultant writing to the G.P. to say I should not be

taking

> > >thyroid meds as this was what was causing my rapid pulse and

need

> > >for betablockers which, in turnn, he was convinced was causing

my

> > >fatigue.

> >

> > I don't know if this will help or not Mo, sometimes too much info

> > can be confusing rather than helpful but in Vliet's book it says:

> >

> > " If thyroid is added too quickly before estradiol is optimal, it

is

> > like someone pouring gasoline on a fire! Yout heart races, your

> mind

> > races and, you are nor sleeping and your head pounds. Not much

fun.

> >

> > It can become complicated when working with the ovarian and

thyroid

> > hormones at the same time, since they affect each other in a

> variety

> > of ways and the symptoms of both too high and too low often mimic

> > each other. Therefore I prefer to stabilise the ovarian hormones

> > with whatever approach a woman prefers, and then work with the

> > thyroid balancing - unless the TSH is so high that the

> > hypothyroidism simply must be treated right away.

> >

> > It can be quite a balancing act, and I often find I have to

combine

> > our " science " (lab tests) along with a lot of " art " (clinical

> > judgement and listening to woman)in order to decide what to do at

> > any given time. "

> >

> > Again, Vliet's views are not held by everyone and she's not too

> keen

> > on Armour(!), but she does seem to have a good grasp on women's

> > hormonal issues. Anyway, I thought you might be interested in

what

> > she had to say even if you eventually dismiss it as unfeasible in

> > your particular situation, or even as unfeasible altogether!

> >

> > Have you ever tried progesterone?

> >

> > x

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I understand your mistake Mo! I just thought it was funny. Seems like Vets have the same attitude as docs when it comes to the thyroid. We had to put our dog dog down 2 weeks ago, not thyroid issues, but it was still very hard to do. They are like one of the family and we treat them as such. Hope you get it sorted. Maybe one day the docs will think the same as the vets and suggest they 'kill' all thyroid sufferers, but I think sometimes they are doing that anyway!-

Yes I meant the GP LOLOf course the mistake is easily explained in that I am having exactly the same 'orrible problems with the vet with my hypoT doggie, Young Blondie.

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

You put your finger on it , they ARE killing us with their

ignorance.

At least the vets are upfront about it. Got a dog with thyroid issues

we are unable to diagnose...?

Simple. Easy peasy....... kill 'em.

Problem solved!

Mo

>

> I understand your mistake Mo! I just thought it was funny. Seems

like Vets have the same attitude as docs when it comes to the

thyroid. We had to put our dog dog down 2 weeks ago, not thyroid

issues, but it was still very hard to do. They are like one of the

family and we treat them as such. Hope you get it sorted. Maybe one

day the docs will think the same as the vets and suggest they 'kill'

all thyroid sufferers, but I think sometimes they are doing that

anyway!

[Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

I thought so Mo!! lol I did, of course, mean the GP NOT the

VET!!!! LOLOLOL

I was rather confuddled too there hon lol.

I thought maybe you had given up on human docs and gone to the vet

instead hehe. Couldn't do any worse eh? May treat us better who knows?

lotsa luv

Dawnx