RE: OFFICIAL - conversion disorders do not exist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

When I saw Dr R I showed him the results of my 24 hr thyroid urine

test, 24hr adrenal saliva test -

His answer to my question..............

Q - Why did Dr R ignore my private test results?

A - Dr R did not ignore the test but took advice as to its appropriate

use in ORTHODOX PRACTICE. He was informed that this WAS NOT USED IN

ORTHODOX MEDICINE.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

B

[Guest guest]

Oh my

GAWD! What a completely idiotic doctor. I would write back to the Chief

Executive as quickly as possible and ask him to question this doctor as to WHY

he believes conversion disorders are not recognised as a problem, never mind

that he adds on " in orthodox medicine " when this is medical science.

Conversion disorders ARE recognised and you should cite the following

references to show they are. Is it any wonder that NHS endocrinologists are

leaving thousands of sufferers ill because they have no idea what they are doing

when it comes to treating thyroid disorders. They don't even know that the

mainly inactive hormone Thyroxine has to convert to the active hormone T3 to

make our bodies function.

As the

Chief Executive to get a FULL explanation from this doctor as to why he has not

done the research to find out about hypothyroidism and denying what is obvious.

You must NOT let this doctor (can we call him something else???) pull the wool

over the CE's eyes. Perhaps the scientists here could cite more references than

I have shown to show the problems associated with conversion of thyroid

hormones. Tell the Chief Executive that if you can find the science to show

there ARE many problems with conversion and you are NOT medically qualified,

why is this Doctor allowed to continue in practice when he is giving out such

grossly incorrect information. He needs sacking.

As for

" What do we do now " - we have some fun and slap it right back in his

face and tell him in future, to read the information that Thyroid Patient

Advocacy-UK sends out to all NHS endocrinologists, and had he not thrown it in

his bin, he might have learned something, and not be in the trouble that I hope

he will find himself in now.

Since

at least a third of treated hypothyroid patients whose blood tests have been

restored to " normal " continue to have symptoms, therefore modern

thyroid treatment is often unsuccessful, a fact which is hardly surprising

given the fact that triiodothyronine (T3) is the crucially important active

thyroid hormone; and the commonly seen failure to convert T4 to T3 (and also,

to a lesser extent T2) will result in an unsatisfactory treatment outcome.(

25,6,27,28)

25. Arem, R., The

Thyroid Solution, Ballantine Books, 1999, New York.

26. Shames, RL, Shames,

KH, Thyroid Power: 10 Steps to Total Health, Harper Publishers, New

York, 2001.

27. Saravanan, P., et

al, Clinical Endocrinology 57 (5), 577-585, 2002.

28. Rothfeld, G.S.,

Romaine, D.S., “Thyroid Balance: Traditional and Alternative Methods for

Treating Thyroid Disorders”, Media Corporation, Avon,

Massachusetts, USA, 2003.

Show the CE the many

conditions that may reduce the conversion of T4 to T3, e.g. aging, obesity,

disease, stress, exercise, malnutrition, etc., potentially reducing the

efficacy of a T4 alone treatment, and in which a natural or synthetic T4/T3

treatment may be more effective.(51,52,53,54,55,56,57)

 

51.   Burroughs V,

Shenkman L. “Thyroid function in the elderly”. Am J Med Sci. 1982,

283 (1): 8-17

52. JN, Eastman

CJ, Corcoran JM, and Lazarus L. “Inhibition of conversion of thyroxine to

triiodothyronine in patients with severe chronic illness”. Clin

Endocrinol. 1976; 5: 587-94

53. Tulp OL and McKee TD

Sr. “Triiodothyronine neogenesis in lean and obese LA/N-cp rats”.

Biochem Biophys Res Communications. 1986; 140 (1): 134-42

54. Katzeff HI, Selgrad

C. “Impaired peripheral thyroid hormone metabolism in genetic

obesity”. Endocrinology. 1993; 132 (3): 989-95

55. Croxson MS and

Ibbertson HK. “Low serum triiodothyronine (T3) and hypothyroidism in

anorexia nervos”. J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1977; 44: 167-73

56. Harns ARC, Fang SH,

Vagenakis AG, and Braverman LE. “Effect of starvation, nutriment

replacement, and hypothyroidism on in vitro hepatic T4 to T3 conversion in the

rat. Metabolism”. 1978;27(11):1680-90

57. Opstad PK, Falch D,

Öktedalen O, Fonnum F, and Wergeland R. “The thyroid function in young

men during prolonged physical exercise and the effect of energy and sleep

deprivation”. Clin Endocrinol. 1984; 20: 657-69

There are also toxic

substances such as phenols, cadmium, and mercury and medications such as

propranolol, amiodarone and several others that may interfere by inhibiting the

T4 to T3 conversion.(65,66,67,68,69)

65.  Feyes D, Hennemann

G and Visser TJ. ”Inhibition of iodothyronine deiodinase by

phenolphtalein dyes” Fed Eur Biomed Sci. 1982; 137(1):40-4

66. Bahn AK, Mills JL,

Snyder PJ, Gann PH, Houten L, Bialik O, Hollmann L, and Utiger RD. „Hypothyroidism

in workers exposed to polybrominated biphenyls” N Engl J Med. 1980; 302:

31-3

67. Ikeda T, Ito Y,

Murakami I, Mokuda O, Tominaga M and Mashiba H. “Conversion of T4 to T3

in perfused liver of rats with carbontetrachloride-induced liver injury”.

Acta Endocrinol. 1986;112: 89-92

68. Paier B, Hagmüller

K, Nolli Mi, Pondal M, Stiegler C and Zaninovich AA. “Changes

induced by cadmium administration on thyroxine deiodination and sulfhydryl

groups in rat liver” J Endocrinol. 1993; 138: 219-24

69. Barregärd L,

Lindstedt G, Schütz A, Sällsten G. “Endocrine function in mercury exposed

chloralkali workers”. Occup Envir Med. 1994; 51: 536-40

There are deficiencies

in hormones, such asT3 itself, TSH, growth hormone, insulin, cortisone and

certain trace elements such as selenium, iron, zinc, copper, iodine partially

block this essential conversion step for thyroid function.(70.71.72.73.74.75.76.77.78.79.80.81.82.83)

70. Burger AG, Lambert

M, Cullen M. “Interférence de substances médicamenteuses dans la

conversion de T4 en T3 et rT3 chez l’homme“. Ann Endocrinol

(Paris). 1981,42:461-9

71. Grussendorf M,

Hüfner M. “Induction of the thyroxine to triiodothyronine converting

enzyme in rat liver by thyroid hormones and analogs”. Clin Chim Acta.

1977;80:61-6

72. kson VJ,

Cavalieri RR, Rosenberg LL. “Thyroxine-5’-diodinase of rat thyroid,

but not that of liver, is dependent on thyrotropin”. Endocrinology.

1982;111:434-40

73. Rezvani I, Di

AM, Dowshen SA, Bourdony CJ. “Action of human growth hormone on

extrathyroidal conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine in children with

hypopituitarism.” Pediatr Res. 1981;15:6-9

74. Schröder-Van der

Elst JP, Van der Heide D. “Effects of streptozocin-induced diabetes and

food restriction on quantities and source of T4 and T3 in rat tissues”.

Diabetes. 1992;41:147-52

75. Gavin LA, Mahon FA,

Moeller M. “The mechanism of impaired T3 production from T4 in

diabetes”. Diabetes. 1981;30:694-9

76. Hoover PA, Vaughan

MK, Little JC, Reiter RJ. “N-methyl-D-aspartate does not prevent effects

of melatonin on the reproductive and thyroid axes of male Syrian hamsters”.

J Endocrinology. 1992;133:51-8

77. Chanoine J-P, Safran

M, Farwell AP, Tranter P, Ekenbarger DM, Dubord S, s, Arthur JR, Beckett

GJ, Braverman LE, Leonard JL. “Selenium deficiency and type II

5’-deiodinase regulation in the euthyroid and hypothyroid rat: evidence

of a direct effect of thyroxine”. Endocrinology. 1992;130:479-84

78. Arthur JR, Nicol F,

Beckett GJ. “Selenium deficiency, thyroid hormone metabolism, and thyroid

hormone deiodinases”. Am J Clin Nutr Suppl. 1993; 57:236S-9S

79. Beard J, Tobin B,

and Green W. “Evidence for thyroid hormone deficiency in iron-deficient

anemic rats”. J Nutr. 1989;772-8

80. Fujimoto S, Indo Y,

Higashi A, Matsuda I, Kashiwabara N, and Nakashima I. “Conversion of

thyroxine into triiodothyronine in zinc deficient rat liver”. J Pediatr

Gastroenterol Nutr. 1986;5:799-805

81. Olin KI, Walter RM,

and Keen CL. “Copper deficiency affects selenoglutathione peroxidase and

selenodeiodinase activities and antioxidant defense in weanling rats”. Am

J Clin Nutr 1994;59:654-8

82. Westgren U, Ahren B,

Burger A, Ingemansson S, Melander A. “Effects of dexamethasone,

desoxycorticosterone, and ACTH on serum concentrations ot thyroxine,

3,5,3’-triiodothyronine and 3, 3’, 5’-triiodothyronine”.

Acta Med Scand. 1977;202 (1-2): 89-92

83. Heyma P, Larkins RG.

“Glucocorticoids decrease the conversion of thyroxine into 3, 5,

3’-triiodothyronine by isolated rat renal tubules”. Clin Science.

1982; 62: 215-20

On the

other hand, excess hormones such as glucocorticoids, ACTH, oestrogens and some

trace elements may slow down the conversion of T4 to T3.(84,85,86)

84. Scammell JG,

Shiverick KT, Fregly MJ. ”Effect of chronic treatment with estrogen and

thyroxine, alone and combined, on the rate of deiodination of l-thyroxine to 3,

5, 3’-triiodothyronine in vitro. Pharmacology”. 1986;33: 52-7

85. Aizawa T, Yamada T.

“Effects of thyroid hormones, antithyroid drugs and iodide on in vitro

conversion of thyroxine to triiodothyronine”. Clin Exp Pharmacol Physiol.

1981; 8: 215-25

86. Voss C, Schrober HC,

Hartmann N. „Einfluss von Lithium auf die in vitro-Deioderung von

l-Thyroxin in der Ratten leber“. Acta Biol Med Germ. 1977; 36:1061-5

Q - Why did Dr R fail to consider my problem as a conversion

dysfunction?

A - Dr R comments that conversion disorders are NOT RECOGNISED AS A

PROBLEM IN ORTHODOX MEDICINE.

Well there you are - I am not ill. Dr P has misdiagnosed me and NPTech

results which showed my T3 under range are wrong.

I will be sending the letter to Sheila for her comments and eventually

to Dr P.

I have also asked the hospital for a form so that I can request copies

of my medical records and copies of the tests. I am hoping that the

records cannot be altered by Dr R when he knows I have asked for them

(me being cynical.

To all on the Forum who have a conversion problem - what do we do now???

B

 

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I detect a lot of arrogance in this endo when he refers to the tests I

had done as unorthodox - and to Dr P as being unorthodox. He uses the

word orthodox quite a lot when he trying to justify his stance.

It is a shame that throughout my life - from a little blond haired girl

to a dark brown (dyed) haired woman - I have always trusted doctors as

being there to help me and make me better. Over the past few years -

and especially since I have been a member of the tpa, I my illusions

have been shattered beyond belief. It is like being told there is no

Father Christmas.

It makes me want to weep over the stories I read on the forum - and

there must be thousands more whose lives has been completely ruined by

miss and non-diagnosis.

The endos, doctors, NHS etc., are all hiding behind a wall of hubris -

it beggars belief that they are so ignorant.

B

[Guest guest]

I feel your pain , I always used to think the doc knew what was

causing stuff and could make it better. It was a kind of safe

feeling,even though we knew some things weren't curable.

Now all I see them as is symptom managers, not doctors, 'orthodox' ie

Allopathic medicine and allopathy don't cure anything any more, they

manage it. The only way they ever cure anything is by cutting it off

and even then the cause is still there.

Humbug!

luv Dawnx

PS awesome list of references there Shiela hon

[Guest guest]

Of all

the delimitations of 'orthodox' , the one that he appears to be using is " …adhering to what is commonly accepted, customary, or

traditional " - what is commonly accepted, customary or traditional doesn't

mean that it is correct. I only hope the Chief Executive sees this and realises

that this doctor has no mind of his own, nor does he do his research to find

the FACTS.

Luv -

Sheila

When I saw Dr R I showed him the results of my 24 hr

thyroid urine

test, 24hr adrenal saliva test -

His answer to my question..............

Q - Why did Dr R ignore my private test results?

A - Dr R did not ignore the test but took advice as to its appropriate

use in ORTHODOX PRACTICE. He was informed that this WAS NOT USED IN

ORTHODOX MEDICINE.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

B

[Guest guest]

The

spell check put in a word on my previous post that I hadn't used. The correct

word was 'definitions'

Luv -

Sheila

From:

thyroid treatment

[mailto:thyroid treatment ] On Behalf Of frances.sacramento

Sent: 18 December 2008 13:24

To:

thyroid treatment

Subject:

Re: OFFICIAL - conversion disorders do not exist !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I saw Dr R I showed him the results of my 24 hr

thyroid urine

test, 24hr adrenal saliva test -

His answer to my question..............

Q - Why did Dr R ignore my private test results?

A - Dr R did not ignore the test but took advice as to its appropriate

use in ORTHODOX PRACTICE. He was informed that this WAS NOT USED IN

ORTHODOX MEDICINE.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

B

[Guest guest]

I wish I could say I was surprised, but I cant. My salivary profile was poo pooed at the hospital and i was told they were basically rubbish and inacurrate but then the endo kept them for himself! Why I wonder?

When I saw Dr R I showed him the results of my 24 hr thyroid urine test, 24hr adrenal saliva test - His answer to my question.... ......... .Q - Why did Dr R ignore my private test results?A - Dr R did not ignore the test but took advice as to its appropriate use in ORTHODOX PRACTICE. He was informed that this WAS NOT USED IN ORTHODOX MEDICINE.aaaaaaaaaaaaagggggg ggggggghhhhhhhhh hhhhhhh B

[Guest guest]

Has anyone ever wondered what some of these docs and endos would do if they were faced with a thyroid problem? I really wish some of them could experience it for themselves and see that we are not just a bunch of winging, moaning women, after all who actually wants to be ill all the time? Its like they think we enjoy being ill and running to them every week, we didnt ask for this.

When I go to the docs and I walk in and he says how are you, I actually say not too bad thanks! What a question to ask cos if I was well I wouldnt be there!! How can they say there is no such thing as a conversion problem?? There so obviously is!!!

Of all the delimitations of 'orthodox' , the one that he appears to be using is "…adhering to what is commonly accepted, customary, or traditional" - what is commonly accepted, customary or traditional doesn't mean that it is correct. I only hope the Chief Executive sees this and realises that this doctor has no mind of his own, nor does he do his research to find the FACTS.

Luv - Sheila

When I saw Dr R I showed him the results of my 24 hr thyroid urine test, 24hr adrenal saliva test - His answer to my question.... ......... .Q - Why did Dr R ignore my private test results?A - Dr R did not ignore the test but took advice as to its appropriate use in ORTHODOX PRACTICE. He was informed that this WAS NOT USED IN ORTHODOX MEDICINE.aaaaaaaaaaaaagggggg ggggggghhhhhhhhh hhhhhhh B

[Guest guest]

I have

had three doctors telephone me and one doctor email me asking me if I could let

them have more details about Armour Thyroid. Each one was hypothyroid and each

one was not doing well on levothyroxine. I gave them details of how and where

they could purchase it and details of how to use it plus details of how they

could get another doctor to prescribe it for them on the NHS. It was a doctor

who wrote to me asking if I knew whether the parathyroids were removed from the

pigs thyroids before being desiccated. She was already taking Armour and had

been for some time, but she had problems with her calcium and this is why she

wanted to know about the removal or not of the parathyroids. I found this out

and sent her the details.

I

know we have doctors who are members of this forum (one wrote that he just

wanted to " see the other side of this problem " - so be assured,

doctors  DO know that the NHS one and only treatment doesn't work for everybody

and I hope they are learning the importance of taking the adrenal function into

account when their patient remains unwell on thyroid hormone replacement.  I

hope many more doctors join us in 2009 and pass the benefit of what they learn

on to their patients.

To

those doctors who think we are nothing other than whinging moaning women, that

is because they happen to be our doctors and it is the fact they don't bother

researching and finding out about medicine that we whinge and moan.

Luv -

Sheila

Has anyone ever wondered what some of these docs and

endos would do if they were faced with a thyroid problem? I really wish some

of them could experience it for themselves and see that we are not just a

bunch of winging, moaning women, after all who actually wants to be ill all

the time? Its like they think we enjoy being ill and running to them every

week, we didnt ask for this.

When I go to the docs

and I walk in and he says how are you, I actually say not too bad thanks!

What a question to ask cos if I was well I wouldnt be there!! How can they

say there is no such thing as a conversion problem?? There so obviously is!!!