Re: Another wasted visit to the NHS endo

[Guest guest]

Hi

I

am sorry that you have had your time wasted through this endoprat who obviously

has his head stuck in the BTA bucket of misleading and incorrect information.

You cannot change these people, the change has to come through the teachings in

the medical schools but as the 'teachers' are members of the executive

committee of BTA - this is an impossible nut to crack. The knowledge exists in

the medical science, but it is being ignored in medical practice. The science

has been out there for over 40 years.

The

BTA Statement says: " There is no evidence to favour the prescription of

Armour Thyroid in the treatment of hypothyroidism over the prescription of

thyroxine sodium, as supplied in the United Kingdom " .

The

TPA-UK rebuttal states: Armour Thyroid is a combination T4/T3 treatment and

there is MUCH evidence that combinations of synthetic T4/T3, or T3 alone

treatments, result in greater improvement of clinical symptoms than T4 only

treatment, which therefore supports the argument in favour of treating with

T4/T3 combination. (See our response to their statements with the many

references - you will find these in our FILES on this forum).

You

have the best doctor to look after you, listen to what he says and follow his

recommendations and you should soon regain your health again. However, I do

feel you need to increase your levothyroxine by another 25 mcgs.

luv

- Sheila

Hi

Been to see the NHS endo again today and he asked what I wanted from

him, he basically said I go with him or go it alone.

I know you all know how it works, he bascially looks at the TSH

reading and nothing else, he considers the T3 test a waste of money

and in his experience and his years of training the T3 test isnt

relevant, so in other words there isnt a T4 to T3 conversion problem

for anyone, he did say he has used T3 very rarely with some patients

and they responded but he could put that down to the placebo effect.

He says its VERY unlikely I have an adrenal problem and wants me off

HC so he can do his tests. I said I didnt have addisons but I had low

adrenal function and maybe this was caused by the T4 over two yrs

stressing the adrenals, he did say that was possible, he said ,maybe

I should go to medical school for the ammount of yrs he did and

become an expert like he is!

I feel so flat and so down, had to have my dog put down yesterday and

feel so very upset about it and didnt need this today, I am to go

back in 3 months, off the HC and do his tests. He also said a TSH of

6.3 isnt too bad! I said Ive had it as low as 0.66 and I feel ill now.

I wish I had the incentive to right him a letter with all the facts

but whats the point?

I did ask him his views on Armour and then said I think I know your

answer, he laughed, he said there is no evidence its better than

thyroxine, Sheila one for you there!

He said people used to eat raw liver for iron diffiencey but that

doesnt mean it worked and people used to eat thyroid glands.

So bascially I am going it alone, no point in going back if im not

going to take his advice, oh and since I last went ive lost a stone,

which is in 2 months and that wasnt through trying, so HC hasnt made

me put weight on!

Sorry for going on, one fed up

[Guest guest]

Hi , the more I hear stories like yours the more it makes my

stomach churn. If he's such a big expert then why can't he get your

TSH below 6.3, maybe he should go back to med school for a few more

years.

Best wishes .

>

> Hi

> Been to see the NHS endo again today and he asked what I wanted

from

> him, he basically said I go with him or go it alone.

> I know you all know how it works, he bascially looks at the TSH

> reading and nothing else, he considers the T3 test a waste of

money

> and in his experience and his years of training the T3 test isnt

> relevant, so in other words there isnt a T4 to T3 conversion

problem

> for anyone, he did say he has used T3 very rarely with some

patients

> and they responded but he could put that down to the placebo

effect.

> He says its VERY unlikely I have an adrenal problem and wants me

off

> HC so he can do his tests. I said I didnt have addisons but I had

low

> adrenal function and maybe this was caused by the T4 over two yrs

> stressing the adrenals, he did say that was possible, he

said ,maybe

> I should go to medical school for the ammount of yrs he did and

> become an expert like he is!

> I feel so flat and so down, had to have my dog put down yesterday

and

> feel so very upset about it and didnt need this today, I am to go

> back in 3 months, off the HC and do his tests. He also said a TSH

of

> 6.3 isnt too bad! I said Ive had it as low as 0.66 and I feel ill

now.

> I wish I had the incentive to right him a letter with all the

facts

> but whats the point?

> I did ask him his views on Armour and then said I think I know

your

> answer, he laughed, he said there is no evidence its better than

> thyroxine, Sheila one for you there!

> He said people used to eat raw liver for iron diffiencey but that

> doesnt mean it worked and people used to eat thyroid glands.

> So bascially I am going it alone, no point in going back if im not

> going to take his advice, oh and since I last went ive lost a

stone,

> which is in 2 months and that went through trying, so HC hasnt

made

> me put weight on!

> Sorry for going on, one fed up

>

[Guest guest]

Sheila

I tell you what did it for me was when he said, sometimes a little knowledge can be dangerous, I took that to mean he found my small ammount of knowledge threatening and it would make things easier for him if I knew nothing. Well I am not an idiot and wont let him think I am.

He did say I could increase my thyroxine to 75mcg, I would have done that soon anyway. I have been back on it for 2 months, first 25, then alternate days 25 and 50 and now all 50 for two weeks, do you think an increase is too soon? I think I can afford to increase.

What I cant believe is his opinion of the T3 test, he said why would you want a T3 test? I said to see if I am converting the T4 to T3 as its the T3 thats the active important one! I said I have never had a problem with getting a T3 test through my doctors and he said well they arent specilists and its a waste of money!

He said they are bombarded with information that people bring in that they have found in the internet, so I feel I cant win with him.

He said long term use of steriods does more damage than good but I think he suspects I dont accept what he says, its a very sad household here today, our dog has gone and its so empty without him, sorry off the subject there.

From: Sheila <sheilaturner@...>Subject: RE: Another wasted [Edit Abbrev Mod]

[Guest guest]

He also said a TSH of

> 6.3 isnt too bad! I said Ive had it as low as 0.66 and I feel ill now.

> I wish I had the incentive to right him a letter with all the facts

> but whats the point?

> I did ask him his views on Armour and then said I think I know your

> answer, he laughed, he said there is no evidence its better than

> thyroxine, Sheila one for you there!

> He said people used to eat raw liver for iron diffiencey but that

> doesnt mean it worked and people used to eat thyroid glands.

> So bascially I am going it alone, no point in going back if im not

> going to take his advice, oh and since I last went ive lost a stone,

> which is in 2 months and that wasnt through trying, so HC hasnt made

> me put weight on!

> Sorry for going on, one fed up

>

I could be very rude about your endo, but I'll refrain myself. A TSH of 6.3 is

appalling, and

it's 10 times higher than your reading of 0.66!

However, I must admit he's right, people ate raw liver for pernicious anaemia.

And yes,

people used to eat thyroid glands and it used to stop them from having

myxodema... and

his point there?

Now for the HC: before I started taking Armour I periodically had to take

steroids, and I

too lost weight EVERY time. My take on it was that the steroid actually allowed

me to

convert T4 into T3 that I wasn't managing to do otherwise and hence I lost

weight because

my metabolism actually worked for a change. Now I don't need steroids because I

take

Armour which has T3 in it. Considerably less side-effects I think...

I think you have a right to be fed up, but stick with Dr P, he'll sort you out

I'm sure, you

certainly can't rely on the NHS endos. I gave up on them and went on my own

after

obtaining my results and researching.

[Guest guest]

, so sorry to hear about your dog, you must be feeling very down at the moment.

If that is the sum total of all your endo's learning and experience, it is a wonder he is not ashamed to admit it.

Lilian

[Guest guest]

Exactly and then to say my TSH wasnt that bad!

You see I stopped my thyroxine for 3 weeks while I started treatment with HC which for me was too long, I did have a TSH of 0.66 back then and in 3 weeks it shot up, its probably better now because since then I have been back on the thyroxine for 2 months, if people dont educate themselves and get a little knowledge they will be ill under an NHS regime at present and some people are frightened to self treat so just go with what they say.

It has been frightening for me to self treat with HC and in some ways ignoring the NHS but thats what I have had to do, I have Dr P though which is reasurring, but this is and has been a long road

Hi , the more I hear stories like yours the more it makes my stomach churn. If he's such a big expert then why can't he get your TSH below 6.3, maybe he should go back to med school for a few more years.Best wishes .>> Hi> Been to see the NHS endo again today and he asked what I wanted from > him, he basically said I go with him or go it alone.> I know you all know how it works, he bascially looks at the TSH > reading and nothing else, he considers the T3 test a waste of money > and in his experience and his years of training the T3 test isnt > relevant, so in other words there isnt a T4 to T3 conversion problem > for anyone, he did say he has used T3 very

rarely with some patients > and they responded but he could put that down to the placebo effect.> He says its VERY unlikely I have an adrenal problem and wants me off > HC so he can do his tests. I said I didnt have addisons but I had low > adrenal function and maybe this was caused by the T4 over two yrs > stressing the adrenals, he did say that was possible, he said ,maybe > I should go to medical school for the ammount of yrs he did and > become an expert like he is!> I feel so flat and so down, had to have my dog put down yesterday and > feel so very upset about it and didnt need this today, I am to go > back in 3 months, off the HC and do his tests. He also said a TSH of > 6.3 isnt too bad! I said Ive had it as low as 0.66 and I feel ill now.> I wish I had the incentive to right him a letter with all the facts > but whats

the point? > I did ask him his views on Armour and then said I think I know your > answer, he laughed, he said there is no evidence its better than > thyroxine, Sheila one for you there!> He said people used to eat raw liver for iron diffiencey but that > doesnt mean it worked and people used to eat thyroid glands.> So bascially I am going it alone, no point in going back if im not > going to take his advice, oh and since I last went ive lost a stone, > which is in 2 months and that went through trying, so HC hasnt made > me put weight on!> Sorry for going on, one fed up >

[Guest guest]

Thanks Lillian

Yes we are all pretty down and upset, I keep crying so does my partner so probably not a good day to go and see the Endo, thanks for your comment.

I keep expecting the dog to walk in, keep wanting to get his tea all the old routine things you just do automatically. This morning was the hardest, coming down stairs and hes not there laying at the bottom, I always had to step over him and then to see both kids sat on the sofa crying and the room so empty, sorry to go on but having to say goodbye to him yesterday was the hardest thing I have ever done and only 2 weeks back from our holiday.

We have good memories but I just want him back

, so sorry to hear about your dog, you must be feeling very down at the moment.

If that is the sum total of all your endo's learning and experience, it is a wonder he is not ashamed to admit it.

Lilian

[Guest guest]

Dear

I'm so sorry that you are having a bad time at the moment.

Your endo sounds like a total waste of space and I'm sorry you were

unfortunate to come across him, believe me there are some NHS endos

out there who do test T3 and take notice of symptoms, mine does and

for this I am very grateful. It might be worth trying to see another

one.

I am so sorry about your dog, they do become part of the family and

it must be very hard for you all at the moment.

Love Lizzie

[Guest guest]

Thank you for that, al least I have Dr P. Its all very raw about the dog right now and probably sounds daft but its awful

Dear I'm so sorry that you are having a bad time at the moment.Your endo sounds like a total waste of space and I'm sorry you were unfortunate to come across him, believe me there are some NHS endos out there who do test T3 and take notice of symptoms, mine does and for this I am very grateful. It might be worth trying to see another one.I am so sorry about your dog, they do become part of the family and it must be very hard for you all at the moment.Love Lizzie

[Guest guest]

I agree, I wont be wasting anymore time with that endo, my doctors are actually better than he is, but he will insist hes the expert. I think the anxiety has caused the weight loss and the lack of eating properly but you may be right it has probably helped with the T4/T3 conversion but I am still very low in thyroid meds and the sooner I get that up again the better I will hopefully start to feel, I dont think the HC gives me any side effects but I do find I need to wee a lot, is that a side effect?

Thanks

He also said a TSH of > 6.3 isnt too bad! I said Ive had it as low as 0.66 and I feel ill now.> I wish I had the incentive to right him a letter with all the facts > but whats the point? > I did ask him his views on Armour and then said I think I know your > answer, he laughed, he said there is no evidence its better than > thyroxine, Sheila one for you there!> He said people used to eat raw liver for iron diffiencey but that > doesnt mean it worked and people used to eat thyroid glands.> So bascially I am going it alone, no point in going back if im not > going to take his advice, oh and since I last went ive lost a stone, > which is in 2 months and that wasnt through trying, so

HC hasnt made > me put weight on!> Sorry for going on, one fed up >I could be very rude about your endo, but I'll refrain myself. A TSH of 6.3 is appalling, and it's 10 times higher than your reading of 0.66!However, I must admit he's right, people ate raw liver for pernicious anaemia. And yes, people used to eat thyroid glands and it used to stop them from having myxodema... and his point there?Now for the HC: before I started taking Armour I periodically had to take steroids, and I too lost weight EVERY time. My take on it was that the steroid actually allowed me to convert T4 into T3 that I wasn't managing to do otherwise and hence I lost weight because my metabolism actually worked for a change. Now I don't need steroids because I take Armour which has T3 in it. Considerably less side-effects I think...I think you have a right to be fed up, but stick with Dr P,

he'll sort you out I'm sure, you certainly can't rely on the NHS endos. I gave up on them and went on my own after obtaining my results and researching.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm so sorry to hear this. I know how hard it was when we had to have

our cat put down.

Sending you my kindest thoughts,

> I feel so flat and so down, had to have my dog put down yesterday and

> feel so very upset about it and didnt need this today,

[Guest guest]

I am sorry you have had to experience this, as so many before you have

had to and sadly many more will come behind you. It can be so very

depressing = Then you 'Thank God' for the internet and the experiences

of those that have gone before you and Shelia who has given her life

and years to try and get this changed, despite incredible obstacles.

Many here could have told you almost 'word for word' what the EndoPrat

said to you - because we have had it said to us.....we really do know

how you feel, and how we have overcome their ignorance. Sometimes we

just have to go thru the processses to really get that they are truly

EndoPrats

You can be just so grateful that you have access to Dr P, Dr S and the

files on this support group, so many hundreds of thousands dont and

have to try and sort this mess out for themselves all alone.

So many here bring special gifts for the benefit of all, and I hope

you will bring your gifts for the benefit of those coming behind you

to the table as well. You have alot of knowledge Sara - I hope you

will consider being guided by Shelia on the best ways to share it.

jennyfreeman

>

> Hi

> Been to see the NHS endo again today and he asked what I wanted from

> him, he basically said I go with him or go it alone.

> I know you all know how it works, he bascially looks at the TSH

> reading and nothing else, he considers the T3 test a waste of money

> and in his experience and his years of training the T3 test isnt

> relevant, so in other words there isnt a T4 to T3 conversion problem

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am really sorry to hear about you having to have your dog put down

and then the visit to the endoprat. I have given up on the NHS, I

feel it is just a waste of my time. I did ask to be refererred to an

Endo and the Gp refused.

Love & Hugs Ali xxx.

P.s off topic I know; but I had a dog as a pup who died and can

remember calling my mate saying the dog has died I am really upset

and he (the dog) cared about me more than my boyfirend at the time.

<xxsarahxx_40@...> wrote:

>

> Hi

> Been to see the NHS endo again today and he asked what I wanted

from

> him, he basically said I go with him or go it alone.

> I know you all know how it works, he bascially looks at the TSH

> reading and nothing else, he considers the T3 test a waste of money

> and in his experience and his years of training the T3 test isnt

> relevant, so in other words there isnt a T4 to T3 conversion

problem

> for anyone, he did say he has used T3 very rarely with some

patients

> and they responded but he could put that down to the placebo effect.

> He says its VERY unlikely I have an adrenal problem and wants me

off

> HC so he can do his tests. I said I didnt have addisons but I had

low

> adrenal function and maybe this was caused by the T4 over two yrs

> stressing the adrenals, he did say that was possible, he

said ,maybe

> I should go to medical school for the ammount of yrs he did and

> become an expert like he is!

> I feel so flat and so down, had to have my dog put down yesterday

and

> feel so very upset about it and didnt need this today, I am to go

> back in 3 months, off the HC and do his tests. He also said a TSH

of

> 6.3 isnt too bad! I said Ive had it as low as 0.66 and I feel ill

now.

> I wish I had the incentive to right him a letter with all the facts

> but whats the point?

> I did ask him his views on Armour and then said I think I know your

> answer, he laughed, he said there is no evidence its better than

> thyroxine, Sheila one for you there!

> He said people used to eat raw liver for iron diffiencey but that

> doesnt mean it worked and people used to eat thyroid glands.

> So bascially I am going it alone, no point in going back if im not

> going to take his advice, oh and since I last went ive lost a

stone,

> which is in 2 months and that wasnt through trying, so HC hasnt

made

> me put weight on!

> Sorry for going on, one fed up

>

[Guest guest]

Its a sad state of affairs and turning your back on the so called experts can be difficult too but I feel I know so much more than I did this time last year and yes its thanks to people on here and the internet and Dr P. I wont be going back to this endo, my doc said if I was to stop the HC then not to do it any quicker than 5mg a week, I told this to the Endo and he said I could do it much quicker than that, I said if I did what signs should I look for he said well you probably wouldnt notice anything, you may be a bit tired, I said Im tired NOW!

He then went on to say if you do become ill you will let me know wont you?! That instills confidence doesnt it!? Anyway I have intention of stopping it until me thyroid is optimum, because I feel thats the reason I feel no benefit from the HC yet

I am sorry you have had to experience this, as so many before you havehad to and sadly many more will come behind you. It can be so verydepressing = Then you 'Thank God' for the internet and the experiencesof those that have gone before you and Shelia who has given her lifeand years to try and get this changed, despite incredible obstacles. Many here could have told you almost 'word for word' what the EndoPratsaid to you - because we have had it said to us.....we really do knowhow you feel, and how we have overcome their ignorance. Sometimes wejust have to go thru the processses to really get that they are trulyEndoPratsjennyfreeman>> Hi> Been to see the NHS endo again today and he asked what I wanted from > him, he basically said I go with him or go it alone.> I know you all know how it works, he bascially looks at the TSH > reading and nothing else, he

considers the T3 test a waste of money > and in his experience and his years of training the T3 test isnt > relevant, so in other words there isnt a T4 to T3 conversion problem >

[Guest guest]

Thanks, we have a cat too, I think he will out live us all!

From: <.fairyhedgehog@...>Subject: Re: Another wasted visit to the NHS endothyroid treatment Date: Monday, 17 November, 2008, 7:38 PM

Hi ,I'm so sorry to hear this. I know how hard it was when we had to haveour cat put down.Sending you my kindest thoughts, > I feel so flat and so down, had to have my dog put down yesterday and > feel so very upset about it and didnt need this today,

[Guest guest]

Thanks for that, ive had it with the this endo, he thinks I am going back in 3 months for his adrenal test but when the appointment comes I will ring and say I no longer need it, why waste his time and mine when I know what the results will be.. There is nothing wrong with your adrenal function Mrs , just like I said!

Dogs are such loyal and loving pets arent they? Yesterday he looked at us for help, he didnt know what planet he was on, he was my best mate when I was alone with just my kids for 3 yrs

Hi ,I am really sorry to hear about you having to have your dog put down and then the visit to the endoprat. I have given up on the NHS,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I am so sorry you have had so much to deal with, he does sound

insensitive and arrogant!

If I were you, I would be tempted to send him a letter telling him

exactly why you won't be returning, although usually these things are

pointless when dealing with arrogance, as they tend to just dismiss

your opinions as somepone be oversensitive or something!

Thank goodness you have Dr P who will help you get through this - and

at least he will do it in a kind and caring manner!

Leah xx

>

> Thanks for that, ive had it with the this endo, he thinks I am

going back in 3 months for his adrenal test but when the appointment

comes I will ring and say I no longer need it,

[Guest guest]

Hi

Did this endoprat even suggest that you increase your thyroxine

by 25 mcgs at all. Or, was he only interested in stopping your other

medications?

Sheila

Hi , the more I hear stories like yours

the more it makes my

stomach churn. If he's such a big expert then why can't he get your

TSH below 6.3, maybe he should go back to med school for a few more

years.

Best wishes .

..

[Guest guest]

Perhaps everybody should turn

round when their doctors complain of their patients getting information from

the Internet and bombarding them with it that perhaps they too should be

looking at the up to date research to keep up with the knowledge of their

patients - then it would not be a problem any more for them.

I feel for you with the death of your dog. We had a border

collie () for 14 years and we had to have him put down too. It took us

quite a while to get over that great loss - he was part of the family.

Luv - Sheila

 

He said they are bombarded with information that people

bring in that they have found in the internet, so I feel I cant win with him.

He said long term use of steriods does more damage than

good but I think he suspects I dont accept what he says, its a very sad

household here today, our dog has gone and its so empty without him, sorry

off the subject there.

[Guest guest]

Well said Sheila,

Keeping up to date with research is critical to success, and remaining

at the leading edge of practice, but oh such an English professional

thing,NOT TO!

's endo clearly finds his patients tiring in this aspect.

BAD FORM!

Enjoy Tuesday,

xx

that perhaps they too should be looking at the up to date research to

keep up with the knowledge of their patients - then it would not be a

problem any more for them.

[Guest guest]

> He said people used to eat raw liver for iron diffiencey but that

> doesnt mean it worked ..............

Of course it worked! My dad, a GP, told me many times that people

used to be fed raw liver to correct iron deficiency. It is simply

more convenient to dish out pills. (Liver is also a very good source

of B vitamins, by the way). I suppose your consultant wouldn't think

much of treating vitamin C deficiency with lemons either?

Very sorry to hear about your dog, by the way. Big hug. (( ))

Miriam

[Guest guest]

He said I could probably go up to 75mcg anf then get tested again in 6 weeks, Im just worried I am upping too quick, He does want me off the HC, but I have no intention of going back to him anyway

Hi

Did this endoprat even suggest that you increase your thyroxine by 25 mcgs at all. Or, was he only interested in stopping your other medications?

Sheila

Hi , the more I hear stories like yours the more it makes my stomach churn. If he's such a big expert then why can't he get your TSH below 6.3, maybe he should go back to med school for a few more years.Best wishes .

..

[Guest guest]

I personally do not think this is too quick. Your blood results

showed your thyroid levels were way down.

Luv - Sheila

He said I could probably go up to 75mcg anf then get tested again in 6 weeks,

Im just worried I am upping too quick, He does want me off the HC, but I have

no intention of going back to him anyway

Hi

Did this endoprat even suggest that you

increase your thyroxine by 25 mcgs at all. Or, was he only interested in

stopping your other medications?

Sheila

Hi , the more I hear

stories like yours the more it makes my

stomach churn. If he's such a big expert then why can't he get your

TSH below 6.3, maybe he should go back to med school for a few more

years.

Best wishes .

..