Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 I am on T3 only Chuck because I did have a conversion issue and switched from Armour. So a binding problem could be caused by high oestrogen. And that has been pretty much ruled out for me. What else would cause this binding do you know Chuck? My TSH is suppressed and I am not hyper at all. I don't know what to do next. I have heard that high (highER) doses of T3 can 'blast' open the receptors ('scuse my technical term lol). And I have gone higher and still did not go hyper. So when my Gp says my TSH would not be suppressed if I was not able to utilise thyroid hormone, is this not true then? Thanks Chuck. Mo > > ...So the pituitary responds to what is in the bloodstream rather than > what is getting into the cells? > This is the $6,000,000 question.... [Edit Abbrev Mod] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted November 30, 2008 Report Share Posted November 30, 2008 Mo, You wrote: > > So a binding problem could be caused by high oestrogen. And that has > been pretty much ruled out for me. Estrogen affects the binding enzymes, but they can be overactive for other reasons. About 70% of the binding is due to thyroxine binding globulin, so too much of that enzyme is a relatively common cause. It comes in the lowest concentration but the highest affinity, which also makes it the strongest contributor. The other two, albumin (paraalbumin, 15%) and transthyrethrin (thyroxin-binding prealbumin, 15%) contribute less, so binding is less sensitive to them. Globulin is made in the liver, so you could have over production there, either due to liver failure or the influence of estrogen or cortisol. If your FT3 is high, then binding is not the problem. > ... So when my Gp says my TSH would not be suppressed if I was not able > to utilise thyroid hormone, is this not true then? This is correct, if " not able to utilize " means a conversion or binding problem. It is not correct for RT3 or receptor resistance, from what I have read, but I did not spend years and money getting a medical degree. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 1, 2008 Report Share Posted December 1, 2008 Mornin' Chuck ~ C: Estrogen affects the binding enzymes, but they can be overactive for > other reasons. M: OK. C: About 70% of the binding is due to thyroxine binding > globulin, so too much of that enzyme is a relatively common cause. It > comes in the lowest concentration but the highest affinity, which also > makes it the strongest contributor. The other two, albumin (paraalbumin, > 15%) and transthyrethrin (thyroxin-binding prealbumin, 15%) contribute > less, so binding is less sensitive to them. > > Globulin is made in the liver, so you could have over production there, > either due to liver failure or the influence of estrogen or cortisol. M: So with my high FT3 this is unlikely to be the problem. I am interested though in knowing how cortisol increases globulin? C: This is correct, if " not able to utilize " means a conversion or binding > problem. It is not correct for RT3 or receptor resistance, from what I > have read, M: So RT3 is not an issue for me either as I am on T3 only and have cleared out the T4 to cover this eventuality. One of the many steps I have taken on the road to get to get optimised and I feel I have just this one shot left. With the theory of cell resistance I mean Chuck. MY GP said there was no such thing as cell resistance you see. Makes a nonsense of all those years in training perhaps? So if I have cell resistance, the TSH is largely irrelevant as is the FT£? Am I right so far....... Thanks muchly. Mo but I did not spend years and money getting a medical degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 3, 2008 Report Share Posted December 3, 2008 I just checked Chuck and my recent TFT came in at: TSH 0.01 FT4 3.1 (11.0 - 24.0) FT3 8.9 (3.9 - 6.8) You think I could have an RT3 issue with these levels? And, if I did, how would I clear the T4? thanks Chuck. Mo p.s. I did not know an TFT was going to be done and took my usual morning dose of 25 mcg T3 4 hours before the test when the time span should have been 10-12 hours. So the results are inaccurate, higher than they should be. > > You wrote: > > ... I am > > interested though in knowing how cortisol increases globulin? > > I think the main impact is a reduction in binding. Like thyroxine, cortisol is stored by binding with a globulin. In addition to the specific globulins, thyroxine and cortisol have a type a common. In other words, when there is more cortisol around, there is less globulin to tie up the T4/T3. > > > M: So RT3 is not an issue for me either as I am on T3 only and have > > cleared out the T4 to cover this eventuality.... > > RT3 can be subtle. If you have any T4 production left, you could still have an RT3 problem. I would ask for an RT3 test, just to be sure. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 I have heard that my FT4 would need to be over the mid-range for there to be enough T4 to create an RT3 issue Chuck. I had an FT3 done a couple of weeks (where I had not taken the a.m.dose) before this lot done by the GP without my foreknowledge and the FT3 was 10.1 (3.9 - 6.8), well over the range with no hyper. Did I understand you to say before that binding would not be an issue where there is a high FT3? Thanks Chuck. Mo > Mo, > > You wrote: > > > > I just checked Chuck and my recent TFT came in at: > > TSH 0.01 > > FT4 3.1 (11.0 - 24.0) > > FT3 8.9 (3.9 - 6.8) > > > > You think I could have an RT3 issue with these levels? > > Can't tell. Since the FT4 is so low, I would be more inclined to suspect > a binding issue. You need a complete panel after not taking the meds. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 4, 2008 Report Share Posted December 4, 2008 Mo, You wrote: > > I have heard that my FT4 would need to be over the mid-range for there > to be enough T4 to create an RT3 issue Chuck.... Why would that be? If T4 is the ONLY source of RT3, why wouldn't any T4 still be converted to it? Plus, FT4 is more a function of T4 and binding. You could have high T4, low FT4, and still too much RT3. > Did I understand you to say before that binding would not be an issue > where there is a high FT3? Less likely. The only way to tell is the ratio of FT3 to T3 or FT4 to T4. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 I don't know the answer to your question Chuck but I will try to find it out and get back to you. It seems to be looking more like cell resistance for me, would you say? thanks, Mo > > Mo, > > You wrote: > > > > I have heard that my FT4 would need to be over the mid-range for there > > to be enough T4 to create an RT3 issue Chuck.... > > Why would that be? If T4 is the ONLY source of RT3, why wouldn't any T4 > still be converted to it? Plus, FT4 is more a function of T4 and > binding. You could have high T4, low FT4, and still too much RT3. > > > Did I understand you to say before that binding would not be an issue > > where there is a high FT3? > > Less likely. The only way to tell is the ratio of FT3 to T3 or FT4 to T4. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 5, 2008 Report Share Posted December 5, 2008 Mo, You wrote: > It seems to be looking more like cell resistance for me, would you > say? If you can indeed rule out RT3. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 So it seems it is possible that I have an RT3 issue here Chuck. Thing is, what to do to clear it? Mo > > Mo, > > You wrote: > > It seems to be looking more like cell resistance for me, would you > > say? > > If you can indeed rule out RT3. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 6, 2008 Report Share Posted December 6, 2008 Mo, You wrote: > > > So it seems it is possible that I have an RT3 issue here Chuck. > Thing is, what to do to clear it? I would test first. If RT3 is confirmed, then switch temporarily to pure T3 to a level that makes you symptom free. Then, gradually reintroduce T4. If you can't get Cytomel, you can accomplish the same thing by taking lots of Armour with food. I suspect doctors in the US are more likely to try this than in the UK. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 8, 2008 Report Share Posted December 8, 2008 The thing is I have been on all T3 for a long time now Chuck. 18 months or more. I don't think I would want to go back to T4 med, would not want ti risk any more problems with it. I was not converting well and Dr P said T3 was the better option for me. The problem now is getting higher with the T3, I crash every time I try. Thanks Chuck. Mo > > Mo, > > You wrote: > > > > > > So it seems it is possible that I have an RT3 issue here Chuck. > > Thing is, what to do to clear it? > > I would test first. If RT3 is confirmed, then switch temporarily to pure > T3 to a level that makes you symptom free. Then, gradually reintroduce > T4. If you can't get Cytomel, you can accomplish the same thing by > taking lots of Armour with food. > > I suspect doctors in the US are more likely to try this than in the UK. > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Mo, You wrote: > ... on all T3 for a long time ... > The problem now is getting higher with the T3, I crash every time I > try. Have you eliminated excess binding with the T3/FT3 ratio? Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Not sure what that question means Chuck? I did not get tested for RT3, just went ahead with that assumption but kept hitting the same problem I am hitting now i.e. inability to raise, high FT3 without hyper signs. I could not be sure I have any potential RT3 at the dose of 100 mcg I managed to reach, may have needed more. Mo > > You wrote: > > ... on all T3 for a long time ... > > The problem now is getting higher with the T3, I crash every time I > > try. > > Have you eliminated excess binding with the T3/FT3 ratio? > > Chuck > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 9, 2008 Report Share Posted December 9, 2008 Mo, You wrote: > > > Not sure what that question means Chuck? Just considering an alternative, but if FT3 is also high, it is not binding. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Is it possible you cannot increase your T3 without going hypERt because you are already on your optimal dose. There could be something else that is stopping your thyroid hormone from being absorbed properly Mo. luv - Sheila Not sure what that question means Chuck? I did not get tested for RT3, just went ahead with that assumption but kept hitting the same problem I am hitting now i.e. inability to raise, high FT3 without hyper signs. I could not be sure I have any potential RT3 at the dose of 100 mcg I managed to reach, may have needed more. Mo > ,_._,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 The T3 is not binding with what? Miriam > Just considering an alternative, but if FT3 is also high, it is not > binding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted December 10, 2008 Report Share Posted December 10, 2008 Miriam, You wrote: > The T3 is not binding with what? It meant that excess binding was not the cause of the problem. " You may have a problem, but binding is not it. " The more common condition for T4 or T3 in the blood is to be bound to thyroglobulin, albumin, or transthyretin (prealbumin). About 99% of both are in this bound or so-called storage state, mostly with globulin. Only the free fraction (FT3 and FT4) can get into the cells and affect metabolism. So the ratio of FT3 to T3 (total) is critical. If it is too low, you have a " binding " problem. Since her FT3 is fairly high, this is less likely. The only way she could have a binding problem with high FT3 is if total T3 is even higher. That would suggest that total T4 would need to be too high also. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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