4x Saliva Cortisol Test & Upcoming Surgery

[Guest guest]

Hi,

Well, after 5 or 6 months of Armour and a few months

of TRT, I've gone from making almost enough cortisol

for a Cushing's dx to making hardly any cortisol.

..8 (3.7 - 9.5)

..8 (1.2 - 3.0)

..5 (.6 - 1.9)

..9 (.4 - 1.0)

I'm not really having any symptoms. I feel great. I guess

that I could be a little less energetic than I was a while back,

but I'm still able to function without caffeine.

I've got a hernia repair surgery coming up on Dec 4. That's

going to suck. I won't be able to lift more than 15 lbs for a

month. I've also got a bunch of physical therapy to break up

scar tissue around tendons in my ankles and in my back. It

will be ultrasound and rolfing. That will probably make for

some adrenal stress.

I'm curious as to what to do about this. I know very little about

adrenal issues so please educate me. There appear to be 2

schools of thought here. Some folks believe in replacing cortisol

and the other group believes that suppressing endogenous

cortisol production is a bad thing, and the proper way to treat

it is with diet, supplements, and lots of rest. The doctor seems

to think that CPAP and supplements will heal it all, so if I'm going

to do a replacement protocol, I'll be on my own.

Here are some select lab results:

10/22 - Serum

T4 free 1.0 (.8 - 1.8)

T3 free 370 (230-420)

TSH 1.09

Glucose 85 (70-99)

Globulin 2.1 L (2.2 - 4.2)

A/G ratio 2.4 H (1 - 1.9)

Exceptions:

B12 1426 H (200-1100)

Folate > 24.0 (> 5.4)

Ferritin 7 L (20-380)

Iron Binding Capacity 680 H (250-425)

Iron Saturation 14 L (20-50)

RBC 5.96 H (4.4-5.7)

MCV 74.5 L (81-100)

MCH 22.7 L (27-35)

MCHC 30.5 L (32-37)

RDW 17.6 H (11.8 - 15.1)

Eosinphils Absolute .3 H (0-.2)

9/17 Serum

Triglycerides 134 (<150)

Chol. Total 112 L (125-200)

HDL 24 L ( > 40)

LDL 61 (< 130)

DHT 61 (25-75)

IGF-1 100 (86-220)

Estrone <10 ( <68)

Insulin 7 (<17)

Estradiol 50 (13-54) * this fluctuates between 13 and 50. I feel best at

20.

SHBG 14 (9-45)

8/25 - Serum

Testosterone 992 (250-1100)

Free T% 2.45 H (1.5-2.2)

Free T 243.5 H (35-155)

T4 Free 0.9 (.8-1.8)

T3 Free 332 (230-420)

TSH 1.65

Vitamin D 25-OH 38 (30-100)

Vitamin D3 32

Vitamin D2 6

Estradiol 13 ( 13-54)

TPO and TG antibody tests were negative.

Parietal cell antibody test also negative.

By mouth, my temp is usually 97.9 - 98.3.

My blood pressure is 118/74 - 130/84.

It is treated with Micardis 40 mg.

Pulse is usually 60 at rest and mid 70's during the day.

I'm at 2 grains of Armour, and have been there since

Aug 25. I don't remember the increases before that.

I feel so much better than I did before I started Armour

that I don't think I have any symptoms. I feel great!

It is possible that I'm not getting quite as much out

of the Armour as I did a few months ago, but I'm

still caffeine free and very active.

-Mike

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike

The way I see it is that your cortisol needs building up and it

might be an idea to start on some form of adrenal supplementation such as Nutri

Adrenal Extra or Dr 's Dynamite Adrenal (the latter is more expensive but

more potent). Building up your cortisol will only help you get through the

stress of the operations and exercise. Your Ferritin level (stored iron) would

also benefit greatly from building up and you might wish to ask your doctor for

a prescription for some elemental iron. Make sure you do not take your iron (or

calcium) at least 3 to 4 hours away from taking your Armour.

Your vitamin D should be increased so ask your GP what he thinks

of you taking some form of vitamin D supplementation to build this up. You need

plenty of sunshine - something many of us in the UK this year are sadly

missing, especially if they live up north.

Your doctor should know of your very low cortisol level

throughout the day before your operation. Your cortisol should be at it's

highest at the beginning of the day to its lowest at night when you sleep - but

your level is just about flat-lining throughout the whole of the day. Buy some

liquorice root and Siberian Ginseng to help boost your adrenals as well as NAE.

If possible, cut back your Armour for a week when you start supplementing your

adrenals. They cannot cope with the thyroid hormone replacement AND the adrenal

supplementation. As theT4 in Armour has a long half life, you should be fine

and introduce the Armour back after a week. If you start taking NAE (you can

buy this from www.yournutritionshop.co.uk

)start by taking 1 tablet with breakfast. In another couple of days, add

another tablet with your lunch (don't take any after 1.00p.m.). After a couple

of weeks, add another tablet with your breakfast and then in another couple of

weeks, add another tablet. Many people take up to 4 tablets daily, and some as

much as six. However, if you get no improvement on 6 tablets, then it's time to

start another product such as Isocort which is more potent than Nutri Adrenal

Extra but not as potent as Cortisol.

Once you start back on your Armour after being off it for a week

to start NAE or some other form of adrenal supplementation, after a couple of

weeks of starting back on it again, I would be tempted to increase it by half a

grain again and see how you feel.

Have you considered taking your Armour at night? Many on this

forum are giving this a try and appear to be meeting this with success. It

is better absorbed throughout the night on an empty tummy, you get a better

night's sleep and wake more refreshed. You do not miss the T3 during the day,

and it leaves the day free for you to take your Iron supplementation.

Do you suffer from Candida or any of the other associated

conditions that go along with being hypothyroid. Go to our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk and click on 'Hypothyroidism'

and on the drop down Menu, click on 'Associated Conditions' and then click on

each of these to learn more about them. If you have any of the associated

conditions mentioned there, this means that your body will not be able to

absorb the thyroid hormone replacement as you should and your body will not be

getting the benefit it should so you really should look into these and getting

them sorted.

Luv - Sheila

Hi,

Well, after 5 or 6 months of Armour and a few months

of TRT, I've gone from making almost enough cortisol

for a Cushing's dx to making hardly any cortisol.

..8 (3.7 - 9.5)

..8 (1.2 - 3.0)

..5 (.6 - 1.9)

..9 (.4 - 1.0)

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I'll give that a shot. It just blows my mind that I've gone from making

way too much cortisol 5 months ago to hardly making any now.

I am on a prescription iron supplement now, and I'm taking D3 by

the hand full. I live near soggy old Seattle, so we get pretty low on

D as well.

My hernia repair is in 3 weeks. I'll look into getting one of the

supplements mentioned, but for now I'm loading up on B5 and

sea salt with lemon. I don't know if 3 weeks is enough time to

do any good, or if I should replace cortisol during the surgery

and recovery. I've got some en route if that's the way to go

with it.

I could try taking Armour at night. I do tend to take several

smaller doses throughout the day though. Maybe one of those

doses should be at bed time.

I'll have to check into the associated conditions...

Here are some other lab results if you are interested...

10/22 - Serum

T4 free 1.0 (.8 - 1.8)

T3 free 370 (230-420)

TSH 1.09

Glucose 85 (70-99)

Globulin 2.1 L (2.2 - 4.2)

A/G ratio 2.4 H (1 - 1.9)

Exceptions:

B12 1426 H (200-1100)

Folate > 24.0 (> 5.4)

Ferritin 7 L (20-380)

Iron Binding Capacity 680 H (250-425)

Iron Saturation 14 L (20-50)

RBC 5.96 H (4.4-5.7)

MCV 74.5 L (81-100)

MCH 22.7 L (27-35)

MCHC 30.5 L (32-37)

RDW 17.6 H (11.8 - 15.1)

Eosinphils Absolute .3 H (0-.2)

9/17 Serum

Triglycerides 134 (<150)

Chol. Total 112 L (125-200)

HDL 24 L ( > 40)

LDL 61 (< 130)

DHT 61 (25-75)

IGF-1 100 (86-220)

Estrone <10 ( <68)

Insulin 7 (<17)

Estradiol 50 (13-54) * this fluctuates between 13 and 50. I feel best at

20.

SHBG 14 (9-45)

8/25 - Serum

Testosterone 992 (250-1100)

Free T% 2.45 H (1.5-2.2)

Free T 243.5 H (35-155)

T4 Free 0.9 (.8-1.8)

T3 Free 332 (230-420)

TSH 1.65

Vitamin D 25-OH 38 (30-100)

Vitamin D3 32

Vitamin D2 6

Estradiol 13 ( 13-54)

TPO and TG antibody tests were negative.

Parietal cell antibody test also negative.

By mouth, my temp is usually 97.9 - 98.3.

My blood pressure is 118/74 - 130/84.

It is treated with Micardis 40 mg.

Pulse is usually 60 at rest and mid 70's during the day.

I'm at 2 grains of Armour, and have been there since

Aug 25. I don't remember the increases before that.

I feel so much better than I did before I started Armour

that I don't think I have any symptoms. I feel great!

It is possible that I'm not getting quite as much out

of the Armour as I did a few months ago, but I'm

still caffeine free and very active.

-Mike

>

> Hi Mike

>

>

>

> The way I see it is that your cortisol needs building up and it might be an

> idea to start on some form of adrenal supplementation such as Nutri Adrenal

> Extra or Dr 's Dynamite Adrenal (the latter is more expensive but more

> potent). Building up your cortisol will only help you get through the stress

> of the operations and exercise. Your Ferritin level (stored iron) would also

> benefit greatly from building up and you might wish to ask your doctor for a

> prescription for some elemental iron. Make sure you do not take your iron

> (or calcium) at least 3 to 4 hours away from taking your Armour.

>

>

>

> Your vitamin D should be increased so ask your GP what he thinks of you

> taking some form of vitamin D supplementation to build this up. You need

> plenty of sunshine - something many of us in the UK this year are sadly

> missing, especially if they live up north.

>

>

>

> Your doctor should know of your very low cortisol level throughout the day

> before your operation. Your cortisol should be at it's highest at the

> beginning of the day to its lowest at night when you sleep - but your level

> is just about flat-lining throughout the whole of the day. Buy some

> liquorice root and Siberian Ginseng to help boost your adrenals as well as

> NAE. If possible, cut back your Armour for a week when you start

> supplementing your adrenals. They cannot cope with the thyroid hormone

> replacement AND the adrenal supplementation. As theT4 in Armour has a long

> half life, you should be fine and introduce the Armour back after a week. If

> you start taking NAE (you can buy this from www.yournutritionshop.co.uk

> )start by taking 1 tablet with breakfast. In another couple of days, add

> another tablet with your lunch (don't take any after 1.00p.m.). After a

> couple of weeks, add another tablet with your breakfast and then in another

> couple of weeks, add another tablet. Many people take up to 4 tablets daily,

> and some as much as six. However, if you get no improvement on 6 tablets,

> then it's time to start another product such as Isocort which is more potent

> than Nutri Adrenal Extra but not as potent as Cortisol.

>

>

>

> Once you start back on your Armour after being off it for a week to start

> NAE or some other form of adrenal supplementation, after a couple of weeks

> of starting back on it again, I would be tempted to increase it by half a

> grain again and see how you feel.

>

>

>

> Have you considered taking your Armour at night? Many on this forum are

> giving this a try and appear to be meeting this with success. It is better

> absorbed throughout the night on an empty tummy, you get a better night's

> sleep and wake more refreshed. You do not miss the T3 during the day, and it

> leaves the day free for you to take your Iron supplementation.

>

>

>

> Do you suffer from Candida or any of the other associated conditions that go

> along with being hypothyroid. Go to our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk and click

> on 'Hypothyroidism' and on the drop down Menu, click on 'Associated

> Conditions' and then click on each of these to learn more about them. If you

> have any of the associated conditions mentioned there, this means that your

> body will not be able to absorb the thyroid hormone replacement as you

> should and your body will not be getting the benefit it should so you really

> should look into these and getting them sorted.

>

>

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

>

>

> Hi,

>

> Well, after 5 or 6 months of Armour and a few months

> of TRT, I've gone from making almost enough cortisol

> for a Cushing's dx to making hardly any cortisol.

>

> .8 (3.7 - 9.5)

> .8 (1.2 - 3.0)

> .5 (.6 - 1.9)

> .9 (.4 - 1.0)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mike

Before your operation you must make the anaesthetist fully aware

of your very low cortisol state in case they need to do anything about this.

Your GP should be aware of this too. Were you taking anything that you aren't

taking now that could have caused you to make too much cortisol 5 months ago.

Get yourself some liquorice root and Siberian Ginseng for the moment from your

local health food store. Make lots of liquorice tea from the root. Do you have a

craving for salt?

I would try taking ALL your Armour at night on an empty stomach

as many of us do, though I do appreciate this sounds a bit scary believing the

T3 half life to be too short to do this, but we are doing fine taking all at

night, and there is no craving for the T3 during the day whatsoever.

Luv - Sheila

I am on a prescription iron supplement now, and I'm taking D3 by

the hand full. I live near soggy old Seattle, so we get pretty low on

D as well.

My hernia repair is in 3 weeks. I'll look into getting one of the

supplements mentioned, but for now I'm loading up on B5 and

sea salt with lemon. I don't know if 3 weeks is enough time to

do any good, or if I should replace cortisol during the surgery

and recovery. I've got some en route if that's the way to go

with it.

I could try taking Armour at night. I do tend to take several

smaller doses throughout the day though. Maybe one of those

doses should be at bed time.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

I did start taking Holy Basil when my cortisol levels were too high.

I quit taking that when the low test results came back.

I will go for the Siberian Ginsing, but at the first hint of the smell

of liquorice, I get violently ill. There are only 2 herbs that do

this to me: Liquorice and Gugol.

I tried taking Armour last night but had a hard time going to sleep.

When I'm home convalescing, I'll try taking it all at night.

My GP doesn't believe in adrenal fatigue, but my longevity doc does.

I've asked the latter about having surgery with low cortisol levels.

Do you know what the dangers of going under anesthesia with low

cortisol levels are? It looks like hypotension may be one of them.

Just curious about all this stuff.

Thanks,

-Mike

>

> Hi Mike

>

>

>

> Before your operation you must make the anaesthetist fully aware of your

> very low cortisol state in case they need to do anything about this. Your GP

> should be aware of this too. Were you taking anything that you aren't taking

> now that could have caused you to make too much cortisol 5 months ago. Get

> yourself some liquorice root and Siberian Ginseng for the moment from your

> local health food store. Make lots of liquorice tea from the root. Do you

> have a craving for salt?

>

>

>

> I would try taking ALL your Armour at night on an empty stomach as many of

> us do, though I do appreciate this sounds a bit scary believing the T3 half

> life to be too short to do this, but we are doing fine taking all at night,

> and there is no craving for the T3 during the day whatsoever.

>

>

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

> I am on a prescription iron supplement now, and I'm taking D3 by

> the hand full. I live near soggy old Seattle, so we get pretty low on

> D as well.

>

> My hernia repair is in 3 weeks. I'll look into getting one of the

> supplements mentioned, but for now I'm loading up on B5 and

> sea salt with lemon. I don't know if 3 weeks is enough time to

> do any good, or if I should replace cortisol during the surgery

> and recovery. I've got some en route if that's the way to go

> with it.

>

> I could try taking Armour at night. I do tend to take several

> smaller doses throughout the day though. Maybe one of those

> doses should be at bed time.

>

[Guest guest]

HI Mike

Not being medically qualified, this is a tricky question, but for

those suffering with 's disease (very low cortisol levels) a 'crisis' can often be

triggered by a surgical operation. During such a time, your body needs extra

cortisol. But, if you have 's disease you are unable to make extra

cortisol, and you may then quickly develop crisis symptoms. In some cases such

a crisis develops without having had any previous symptoms. It is not OK that

your GP doesn't accept adrenal problems exist.

I know you don't have 's disease, but as you have swung

from having suffered Cushing's Syndrome right to the opposite end of the scale

- this should be looked into. After severe stress such as surgery, for anybody

having an ian crisis, they would need hydrocortisone injections, a

'drip' of fluid to bring up their BP, and they may need intensive care until

the crisis is over. They would then need to continue taking hydrocortisone

medication for some time afterwards. This scenario will not necessarily happen

to you, but I am writing in the hope that this knowledge will help prepare you

and your doctor. Forewarned is forearmed, but doctors performing surgery will

already be aware of this anyway. Just let them know you have very low cortisol

before they start to operate.

As a matter of interest, what did your longevity doctor have to

say when faced with this question?

Luv - Sheila

Do you know what the dangers of going under anesthesia with low

cortisol levels are? It looks like hypotension may be one of them.

Just curious about all this stuff.

Thanks,

-Mike

,___