Re: Autism Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

January 23, 2006

Suzanne’s

completely right, what they’re doing is illegal and so by requesting

prior written notice, you call them on that, if you don’t request it, then

they get away with it and they know that. Your doctor’s diagnosis over

rides any specialist they have.

Suzanne- this statement “that

some school officials seem to have themselves confused with the Lord” lol

lol lol

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf

Of SBShaft@...

Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007

7:56 AM

Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Autism

Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

Hi, Angelina & Deb --

I have found -- especially in my recent experience --

that some school officials seem to have themselves confused with the

Lord. Here's the thing: only a doctor

-- in this case, that is defined as an M.D., a D.O., a PhD., can

diagnose. There may be school officials that have doctorate degrees...but

they don't have those doctorates in medicine. Probably, they have

them in education. Therefore, I don't care if school

personnel have 30 doctorate degrees each, if none of those

degrees are in medicine, then they don't have the ability to

diagnose.

The principal of our school gave me that nonsense too

-- a doctorate and 30 years of experience...how dare I question her!

Well, I'll tell you how...is that doctorate in behavioral psychiatry? How

about pediatric and adolescent psychiatry? No? How about pediatric

neurology? How about just general practicioner in pediatrics?

No? Okay, how about any of the above, even not in pediatrics?

No? Well, then you aren't qualified to diagnose my child! 30 years

of experience? -- great! Do you have 30 years of experience in my

child? Probably not, since he's only 7. Therefore, that doesn't make

you an expert on him or his disorders. So,

all your fancy degrees (I have a bachelors, by the way, thank you very

much; and my husband has a masters...we're not idiots. And,

some of the smartest people I know of don't even have college degrees.

So, there!), and decades of experience amount to diddly squat in this

arena!

Angelina, if you have something from a doctor -- an

M.D., a D.O., or a PhD -- stating your child's diagnosis, then the school must

abide by that. If they don't, they need to explain in writing why

not. That's called Prior Written Notice. I don't know why they

wouldn't want him designated as Asperger's, as the districts get more money for

children diagnosed with Autism Spectrum Disorders. Not that all that cash

goes to educating our children, mind you, but hey...that's what it's supposed to do. Angelina, I

know you work for the school, but asking for Prior Written Notice doesn't mean

you're going to sue them or take it any further. But, that has to stay in his

file. And it's on record that the school is ignoring the doctor's

diagnosis. And, they have to put in writing WHY they're choosing to

ignore the doctor's diagnosis. This way, if he doesn't do well on his IEP

goals, you can point to that PWN and keep insisting they change it.

-----Original Message-----

From: angelina8863

Sent: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 2:44 AM

Subject: [ ] Re: Autism Classification on IEP & Experience with

Schools

well deb, i been fighting the school for this for yrs

and i have my child first they had him pdd, but then the last dr but

asperber, and they said that they dont belive the drs and the dr dont know as

much as they do at the school and they said he dont have autism even tho i have

documents , i have ask fo the in the iep and to change his classifcation and

they wont they keep leaving it LD, so i cant get much help without that

label correct? but the school they dont have to b/c they dont feel he has

it. what your opinion? thanks angelina

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January 24, 2006

I agree

with you 100 %! There was nothing our advocate could do for us since it was a

charter. I actually felt like they made their own rules. For instance, when my

child received a suspension, they kept adding on days, it ended up being over

a week ,quite different than the 3 day suspensions in the public schools

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf

Of KathieQuinnBoor@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007

5:04 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Autism

Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

I

wouldn't recommend any charter school. We have BTDT and w/ horrific

results. Two years later and my daughter is still recovering from the

abuse that she received there. Remember, charter schools are in it for

the money (no other reason, if they didn't make a profit, they wouldn't be in

business) ... and they don't want kids that cost a lot of money.

I hear

there is currently a class action suit regarding abuse, educational neglect,

etc of a charter school system in Cleveland (not summit academy) I hope that

the ppl reasonable lose everything they have ... and then some.

ya ...

2 yrs later and I'm still pissed.

In a

message dated 1/20/2007 6:43:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cws9sbcglobal (DOT) net

writes:

I wouldn’t recommend summit academy to anyone. It’s been an absolute nightmare

for us. I think as long as you have a dx done by your psych, neurologist, or

whoever is handling your child’s care, and you get a note from them stating

that, take it to the school, then the school will change the

classification. Also the autism scholarship only covers $20,000 but maybe the

school would offer some kind of financial aid.

January 24, 2006

Ours was the secondary one in akron,

im glad yours is working out, I hope it continues, the person who made it

unbearable for us was the iep coordinator, Sonya Beatty, just like the other

poster said, I think it will take a long time to undo the damage she’s

done

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf

Of Yoder-Balla

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007

5:09 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Autism

Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

I

wonder which Summit Academy you had experience with. My daughter goes to

the one in Canton & we have loved it so far. They have done more for

her in the last few months than the public school system did in her 1st 4

years. I think people need to do what they feel is best for their

families. While I know there are a great many terrible charter schools,

there are some that do great work. Outreach Academy is one that I have

seen do awesome work with the MRDD population.

~byb~

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of KathieQuinnBooraol

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007

5:04 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Autism

Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

I

wouldn't recommend any charter school. We have BTDT and w/ horrific

results. Two years later and my daughter is still recovering from the

abuse that she received there. Remember, charter schools are in it for

the money (no other reason, if they didn't make a profit, they wouldn't be in

business) ... and they don't want kids that cost a lot of money.

I hear

there is currently a class action suit regarding abuse, educational neglect,

etc of a charter school system in Cleveland (not summit academy) I hope that the

ppl reasonable lose everything they have ... and then some.

ya ...

2 yrs later and I'm still pissed.

In a

message dated 1/20/2007 6:43:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cws9sbcglobal (DOT) net

writes:

I wouldn’t recommend summit academy to anyone. It’s been an

absolute nightmare for us. I think as long as you have a dx done by your psych,

neurologist, or whoever is handling your child’s care, and you get a note

from them stating that, take it to the school, then the school will

change the classification. Also the autism scholarship only covers $20,000 but

maybe the school would offer some kind of financial aid.

January 25, 2006

Hey

Suzanne

I know I usually talk to you off list but

maybe by bringing it to the list, it will warn everyone about the abuse that’s occurring

in the public, the charter, even in the private sector. You are an excellent

advocate for your son and it breaks my heart what they did to him. If we put

our kids in closets when theyre having a meltdown,we’d be locked up for sure.

Just like an earlier poster mentioned, the schools don’t give a hoot about your

child’s well being or what’s in that child’s best interest. I don’t know ,I’m

hoping the Christian schools will be our safe haven,if not then what does that

leave us with except home schooling. I went back up to summit academy today to

get our records because they were refusing to send them to ohdela, thinking they

would hand me the originals. They refused and made me copys and I got to tell

you, the fact that they’re keeping our personal info(psych records,etc)

scares me to death! You know we see a dr toor at akron childrens,she’s ok(theyre

always accepting new patients,but is that a good thing hmm) but the best psych

we’ve had has been dr Delong, she was my son’s psych when he attended FACT,and

she was the best we’ve ever had, and very down to earth,but she was located in

canton, so if you want me to look up her info let me know.

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf

Of SBShaft@...

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007

8:00 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Autism

Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

I was expecting to hear you chime in on Summit

Academy! I don't blame you...a lot of damage was done to

your son.

On the flip side, a lot of damage was done to my son

in public school. As

you all have heard over and over -- and now, one more time! -- he

was put in a closet and restrained. Without our knowledge or

consent. I'm beginning to wonder if there are ANY

good educational options for our children.

Speaking of damage being done to our children as

a result of this stuff (by the way, I don't blame the previous poster for still

being P.O.'d 2 years later...I'll be upset about what these people

have done to my son until I draw my last breath on this earth!), what do you do

if you can't find a psych to take care of that damage? No one in the

major hospitals are accepting patients and the private practice ones are

turning us down -- either they don't want to get involved, or when I've

sidestepped around the story, they don't take kids with Aspergers' or they

don't take kids with language deficits, etc., etc. I'm beginning to think

the only way I'm going to get him seen is to wait for him to have a nervous

breakdown and need to be hospitalized. I was told all these places would

see him then! How crazy (excuse the term) is that?!?!?!?!?

Any advice?

-----Original Message-----

From: cws9sbcglobal (DOT) net

Sent: Tue, 24 Jan 2006 6:06 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Autism Classification on IEP & Experience with

Schools

Ours was the

secondary one in akron, im glad yours is working out, I hope it continues, the

person who made it unbearable for us was the iep coordinator, Sonya Beatty,

just like the other poster said, I think it will take a long time to undo the

damage she’s done

-----Original Message-----

From:

[mailto: ] On

Behalf Of Yoder-Balla

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007

5:09 PM

Subject: RE: [ ] Autism

Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

I

wonder which Summit Academy you had experience with. My daughter goes to

the one in Canton & we have loved it so far. They have done more for

her in the last few months than the public school system did in her 1st 4 years.

I think people need to do what they feel is best for their families.

While I know there are a great many terrible charter schools, there are some

that do great work. Outreach Academy is one that I have seen do awesome

work with the MRDD population.

~byb~

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of KathieQuinnBooraol

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007

5:04 PM

Subject: Re: [ ] Autism

Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

I

wouldn't recommend any charter school. We have BTDT and w/ horrific

results. Two years later and my daughter is still recovering from the

abuse that she received there. Remember, charter schools are in it for

the money (no other reason, if they didn't make a profit, they wouldn't be in

business) ... and they don't want kids that cost a lot of money.

I hear

there is currently a class action suit regarding abuse, educational neglect,

etc of a charter school system in Cleveland (not summit academy) I hope that

the ppl reasonable lose everything they have ... and then some.

ya ...

2 yrs later and I'm still pissed.

In a

message dated 1/20/2007 6:43:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cws9sbcglobal (DOT) net

writes:

I wouldn’t recommend summit academy to anyone. It’s been an absolute nightmare

for us. I think as long as you have a dx done by your psych, neurologist, or

whoever is handling your child’s care, and you get a note from them stating

that, take it to the school, then the school will change the classification.

Also the autism scholarship only covers $20,000 but maybe the school would

offer some kind of financial aid.

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Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to

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January 22, 2007

I was told that if a dr (esp. a neuro) gives dx of autism, then the schools have to go with it. A neuro can do an MRI and tell for sure. There definate physical differences with the brain in a person who has autism. I would contact an advocate and see what they say. Deb "angie mccarthy(dickens)" <angelina8863@...> wrote: well deb, i been fighting the school for this for yrs and i have my child first they had him pdd, but then the last dr but asperber, and they said that they dont belive the drs and the dr dont know as much as they do at the school and they said he dont have autism even tho i have documents , i have ask fo the in the iep and to change his classifcation and they wont they keep leaving it LD, so i cant get much help without that label

correct? but the school they dont have to b/c they dont feel he has it. what your opinion? thanks angelina Bored stiff? Loosen up...Download and play hundreds of games for free on Games.

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January 22, 2007

From a legal perspective, I think any school district would have a hard time disregarding or overturning a medical diagnosis of autism or a related condition. If a child is truly borderline and the school district employs experts that are equivalent in qualifications and experience to those who've made the parent's diagnosis, than it may be a tougher argument but that is very rarely the case.

I think you need to be very open with the district with disclosing the medical opinions you have. When you give them to the school please document it by sending them by certified mail or noting that they were presented at a certain date. This will require the school district to support their position that the clinical diagnosis is incorrect with clinical evidence to the contrary. Noting the dates also supports an argument that you provided the school district with all of the information you had and that they acted in bad faith by either disregarding this information by mistake or intention.

I think most school districts understand that autism is a spectrum and are smart enough not to get drawn into a fight over the overall diagnosis (autism, aspbergers, etc.) when the parent's have a doctor's opinion. Now, they may argue over scope of necessary services but usually not the overall diagnosis.

Just some thoughts.

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The advice or other information in this document was prepared for the sole benefit of KPMG’s client and may not be relied upon by any other person or organization. KPMG accepts no responsibility or liability in respect of this document to any person or organization other than KPMG’s client.

From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of Debbie WachterSent: Monday, January 22, 2007 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [ ] Re: Autism Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

I was told that if a dr (esp. a neuro) gives dx of autism, then the schools have to go with it. A neuro can do an MRI and tell for sure. There definate physical differences with the brain in a person who has autism. I would contact an advocate and see what they say.

Deb "angie mccarthy(dickens)" <angelina8863 > wrote:

well deb, i been fighting the school for this for yrs and i have my child first they had him pdd, but then the last dr but asperber, and they said that they dont belive the drs and the dr dont know as much as they do at the school and they said he dont have autism even tho i have documents , i have ask fo the in the iep and to change his classifcation and they wont they keep leaving it LD, so i cant get much help without that label correct? but the school they dont have to b/c they dont feel he has it. what your opinion? thanks angelina

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January 23, 2007

hi, and sometime back they gave me somethng like prior notice or safe gurads or something i have to dig it and, but what they sent, i didnt understand it and i will try to find it and let you know what it says, b/c no one ever explain this to me, but when i find it i get back thank you that what i thought. but you know how shool are. angel

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January 23, 2007

Hi, Angel --

By all means, once you find it, let us know what it says. We can probably help even more if we know what they gave you. If they only gave you a copy of the procedural safeguards (Whose IDEA is This?) then that's not Prior Written Notice. They are supposed to give you that along with a completed Prior Written Notice document, but they need to provide both if you have a disagreement in providing services.

--Suzanne

-----Original Message-----

From: angelina8863@...

Sent: Mon, 22 Jan 2007 10:51 PM

Subject: [ ] Re: Autism Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

hi, and sometime back they gave me somethng like prior notice or safe gurads or something i have to dig it and, but what they sent, i didnt understand it and i will try to find it and let you know what it says, b/c no one ever explain this to me, but when i find it i get back thank you that what i thought. but you know how shool are. angel

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January 23, 2007

We have a similar situation in our school district going on right

now. The parent has diagnosis from multiple doctors (I believe

four) and our school district is refusing to acknowledge the autism

diagnosis. The problem is the school (mine at least) is basing the

IEP on the child's deficits and needs and disregarding the official

medical diagnosis. They aren't questioning whether the child has

autism, but also not really acknowledging it either. And legally

they don't have to really acknowledge private/IEE evaluations. They

only have to review them. Legally they have to base the IEP on the

MFE (which of course is administered by the SD). Not every child

who has a diagnosis of Autism automatically qualifies for an IEP.

The child in our sd also had other diagnosis as well, and the school

district has argued these are more relavent to the official iep.

However I agree that if a parent were to pursue it through due

process they would probably win...but who truly has that kind of

money...not to mention you're looking a two year fight. And without

legal counsel it is hard.

The reason (I believe) SD are arguing diagnosis is because with the

diagnosis the parent can pull the child and use the autism

scholarship...which for the average district means they would lose

$20,000 of funding (autism funding being around 26-28,000) They

still get the 6-8000 and don't have to deal with the child (assuming

the parent uses all 20,000) but they could still get 20-26,000

funding for a child using MR, LD etc and more than likely not spend

nearly that much educating that child.

A lot of this would have been solved if HB 431 passed, that would

have opened the scholarship up to kids with any disability. However

it didn't pass and now the schools have something to leverage

against the parents.

January 23, 2007

My understanding is that you cannot refer to the autism scholarship within the IEP. I think this is clearly in the Ohio autism scholarship guidelines.

The link between the IEP and the autism scholarship is that you need a current IEP to qualify for it. Also, the autism scholarship will not pay for services that are not addressed in the IEP. Thus, even if your child goes to a private school or is home schooled, you still need to make sure the IEP is current and addresses all of the child's needs if you want to have the scholarship help pay for the services to achieve the IEP goals.

I am not sure that the diagnosis of autism is relevant to the IEP itself. What is tremendously relevant is that the child's current deficits and needs and what is required to address them. That's where you get into the debate over ABA vs. non-ABA and everything else on a very detailed level. If you have a number of doctor's reports, as well as others from OT and speech, etc., that clearly and concisely identify those needs and deficits (as well as goals) and they are all consistent, it would seem the district is acting in bad faith by disregarding them or arbitrarily discounting them.

It is an unfortunate fact that an IEP is a product of negotiation. Some people do get better deals than others in IEPs. As a practical matter, if your diagnosis is from a professional or group like, for example, the Cleveland Clinic, your chances of success are likely enhanced simply because the school's IEP team realizes they would have a hard time saying that report is wrong. If push comes to shove, you may need to have that doctor or group (like, for example, professionals from the Cleveland Clinic Center for Autism) sit next to you at the table which forces the School's IEP team to tell those persons they're wrong and why.

I agree that legal remedies take too long and are not cost effective in most cases. Beefing up the parent's IEP team with non-legal experts up front is a cheaper and more effective tactic in some cases and is not quite as confrontational.

Just some thoughts.

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Any advice in this communication is limited to the conclusions specifically set forth herein and is based on the completeness and accuracy of the stated facts, assumptions and/or representations included. In rendering our advice, we may consider tax authorities that are subject to change, retroactively and/or prospectively, and any such changes could affect the validity of our advice. We will not update our advice for subsequent changes or modifications to the law and regulations, or to the judicial and administrative interpretations thereof.

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From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of pcrawfo1Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:30 AM Subject: [ ] Re: Autism Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

We have a similar situation in our school district going on right now. The parent has diagnosis from multiple doctors (I believe four) and our school district is refusing to acknowledge the autism diagnosis. The problem is the school (mine at least) is basing the IEP on the child's deficits and needs and disregarding the official medical diagnosis. They aren't questioning whether the child has autism, but also not really acknowledging it either. And legally they don't have to really acknowledge private/IEE evaluations. They only have to review them. Legally they have to base the IEP on the MFE (which of course is administered by the SD). Not every child who has a diagnosis of Autism automatically qualifies for an IEP. The child in our sd also had other diagnosis as well, and the school district has argued these are more relavent to the official iep.However I agree that if a parent were to pursue it through due process they would probably win...but who truly has that kind of money...not to mention you're looking a two year fight. And without legal counsel it is hard. The reason (I believe) SD are arguing diagnosis is because with the diagnosis the parent can pull the child and use the autism scholarship...which for the average district means they would lose $20,000 of funding (autism funding being around 26-28,000) They still get the 6-8000 and don't have to deal with the child (assuming the parent uses all 20,000) but they could still get 20-26,000 funding for a child using MR, LD etc and more than likely not spend nearly that much educating that child.A lot of this would have been solved if HB 431 passed, that would have opened the scholarship up to kids with any disability. However it didn't pass and now the schools have something to leverage against the parents.

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January 23, 2007

I am curious as to when the child in question was officially

diagnosed with autism. There is a school of thought that it needs

to be diagnosed prior to the age of three, and the further

chronological age from that point, the less reliable the diagnosis

is, because other mental disorders can have similar traits.

Additionally if the child is Aspergers it is a harder argument,

especially with late diagnosis. So the school (in due process)

might be able to legally argue it if it is from that perspective.

Just some thoughts from the devils advocate. Trust me I am

definately not for the schools but sometimes you have to look at it

from different perspectives, especially when you are talking due

process.

The other thing I was thinking was how long after she had an

official diagnosis did she start to want it on his/her iep? If you

wait three years from official diagnosis (for fear of a label etc)

you are going to have an extremely hard argument to put it on now.

We all know there are parents out there who refuse to believe their

child is/might be autistic. And many of those parents don't want it

known to " label their child " . Many of us had a denial period,

because who truly wants to believe their kiddo has a dx like

autism. It would be harder for a school to argue a kid who came in

with a diagnosis from the start...just some food for thought.

January 23, 2007

No you can't refer to the autism scholarship specifically, however in

order to qualify for the scholarship somewhere on the IEP it must list

the child does have either pdd-nos or autism. Even if it is listed in

the PLOP.

>

> My understanding is that you cannot refer to the autism scholarship

> within the IEP. I think this is clearly in the Ohio autism

scholarship

> guidelines.

>

January 23, 2007

I wouldn't recommend any charter school. We have BTDT and w/ horrific results. Two years later and my daughter is still recovering from the abuse that she received there. Remember, charter schools are in it for the money (no other reason, if they didn't make a profit, they wouldn't be in business) ... and they don't want kids that cost a lot of money.

I hear there is currently a class action suit regarding abuse, educational neglect, etc of a charter school system in Cleveland (not summit academy) I hope that the ppl reasonable lose everything they have ... and then some.

ya ... 2 yrs later and I'm still pissed.

In a message dated 1/20/2007 6:43:19 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cws9@... writes:

I wouldnâ€™t recommend summit academy to anyone. Itâ€™s been an absolute nightmare for us. I think as long as you have a dx done by your psych, neurologist, or whoever is handling your childâ€™s care, and you get a note from them stating that, take it to the school, then the school will change the classification. Also the autism scholarship only covers $20,000 but maybe the school would offer some kind of financial aid.

January 23, 2007

I am jumping out of the dark and have only seen part of these posts. Forgive me if this is redundant.

When we initially had trouble getting our school to recognize autism and address her school day is a more organized methodical manner. We called the Cleveland Clinic Autism School and paid $500 to send a consultant to our daughters public school and make written recommendations. Things changed pretty fast. Haven't had a problem since.

We found that the TEACH method works better with our daughter and is well supported by our system. It works for her.

Debbie

-----Original Message-----

From: FVari@...

Sent: Tue, 23 Jan 2007 9:48 AM

Subject: RE: [ ] Re: Autism Classification on IEP & Experience with Schools

My understanding is that you cannot refer to the autism scholarship within the IEP. I think this is clearly in the Ohio autism scholarship guidelines.

The link between the IEP and the autism scholarship is that you need a current IEP to qualify for it. Also, the autism scholarship will not pay for services that are not addressed in the IEP. Thus, even if your child goes to a private school or is home schooled, you still need to make sure the IEP is current and addresses all of the child's needs if you want to have the scholarship help pay for the services to achieve the IEP goals.

I am not sure that the diagnosis of autism is relevant to the IEP itself. What is tremendously relevant is that the child's current deficits and needs and what is required to address them. That's where you get into the debate over ABA vs. non-ABA and everything else on a very detailed level. If you have a number of doctor's reports, as well as others from OT and speech, etc., that clearly and concisely identify those needs and deficits (as well as goals) and they are all consistent, it would seem the district is acting in bad faith by disregarding them or arbitrarily discounting them.

It is an unfortunate fact that an IEP is a product of negotiation. Some people do get better deals than others in IEPs. As a practical matter, if your diagnosis is from a professional or group like, for example, the Cleveland Clinic, your chances of success are likely enhanced simply because the school's IEP team realizes they would have a hard time saying that report is wrong. If push comes to shove, you may need to have that doctor or group (like, for example, professionals from the Cleveland Clinic Center for Autism) sit next to you at the table which forces the School's IEP team to tell those persons they're wrong and why.

I agree that legal remedies take too long and are not cost effective in most cases. Beefing up the parent's IEP team with non-legal experts up front is a cheaper and more effective tactic in some cases and is not quite as confrontational.

Just some thoughts.

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From: [mailto: ] On Behalf Of pcrawfo1

Sent: Tuesday, January 23, 2007 9:30 AM