Cold sweats

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila and all,

I'm counting on someone to give me some answers, as I sure am at the end of my wisdom.....

I am Hashimoto's and on Levothyroxin (by now 100 mcg/day) since February this year. Some of my many hypothyroid symptoms have improved - yet none have vanished. I cope. - I am normal weight (60 kg), postmenopausal (or so I am told) and have been suffering extremely badly from hot flushes for the past 10 years. Those hot flushes have now reduced drastically (although I still get them), but now cold sweats have taken their place. I used to wake up several times during the night, having a hot flush - now I'm increasingly waking up nearly every hour, dripping wet, from cold sweats - not sure which was preferable.

My brain works slowly ... so after several months I began to notice something... every morning, after taking my thyroxine at 5.30 am (I set the alarm, coz my dog gets his thyroid pill at that time) I sank into a blissful "dry" sleep for the next few hours....

I started to experiment. About a week ago I decided to take my thyroxine at bedtime (around 11pm-ish) instead of 5am .... and I now sleep like a baby ! No lying awake, staring at the ceiling, no sweats .... just blissful *dry* refreshing sleep. Great, I thought - this is the answer .... but like most things in life, nothing is straight forward - now I get those blooming cold sweats during the day !! I feel totally fine one moment, and the next I start perspiring (and that is putting it mildly). I watch with growing frustration as my face, arms, legs - my whole body - gets covered in cold sweat and am mopping myself dry for the next 5 minutes. This happens several times during the day - perhaps every 2 hours or so..... Please, somebody, tell me WHY ?

a very frustrated

- ...oh, and my adrenals appear well supported with Dr. 's Adrenal Dynamite - have tried NAE for over a year, but did not work for me.

[Guest guest]

Many thanks folks, for all your comments. I have taken on board all you say....

Sheila - I have told my GP and my endo about my 10-year-suffering from hot flushes ... there was never more response than sympathetic noises and the willingness to do blood tests for me. As you can see, they have tested all they could think of - and on NHS (!) with a little nudge from my (private) endo ... I can see from those results that there are discrepancies, and I certainly don't feel 'normal' - yet I am told that I am responding well to the thyroxine and that all is normal for my age and gender.

Of all the things you mention, most are n/a in my case, but there are a couple of 'hits' ... I suffer from severe Candida albicans (am more or less on top of it by now) and from knackered adrenals - which I combat with Dr. 's Adrenal Dynamite and currently Keto7. I don't understand why Keto7 is helping, but it seems to. (The cold sweats started before I took Keto7 btw, so I don't suppose keto7 is the reason for those) . I am pretty convinced that those cold sweats as well as the old hot flushes are a result of my adrenal status - but if so .... what exactly is wrong? and how can I stop it? I have been trying to nurse my adrenals back to health now for exactly 2 years.... the first year with high NAE and Nutri-Thyroid (before I was diagnosed), of late with Adrenal Dynamite and very recently adding Keto7. My 9am cortisol levels now appear to be not too bad with 353 (just found out that the ref range is 140-690). - I am, however, seriously thinking along the lines of progesterone crème... do you think it would help? I am not sure about my oestrogen levels - I thought they were extremely low (if estradiol were oestrogen (??) - I'm not too familiar with all the different sex hormones) ...

Mandy's comment about having the same symptoms and overcoming them with HRT is very interesting. I too suffer from the bone and hip pain btw. I was on HRT for one brief year back in 2000, when I could not stand the severe and constant hot flushes any longer - and yes, it did stop the flushes, but it gave me other unwanted symptoms like breathlessness and shooting pains and heaviness in my legs. I stopped HRT when I found a lump in my breast (fortunately benign) and I got scared.

Chuck's suggestion of more T4 for now is probably a realistic one, as I am confident I can sweet talk my GP into upping the dosage. I do see Chuck's logic in saying that unless the TSH is well below 2 and I still don't feel better, I won't have a leg to stand on, asking for the addition of T3 .... mind you - my endo has already put his foot down on the T3 front ..."you don't need it!" - end of and as for Armour.... dream on

Btw, Chuck ... a question - I do know that active autoantibodies can produce erroneous T3 results - but I am (pleasantly) surprised that you know about it too. I found this pearl of wisdom quoted by the veterinarian Dr. Dodds - but I have not found a 'human' reference to this fact. Do you know of a credible reference about this in human medicine?

- your comment is giving me hope ) . I am soo tempted to just do what is suggesting ... not exactly splitting the current dosage, but taking thyroxine twice and adding another 50 mcg during the day as well as my 100 mcg at night. - But I am too scared to do that. A) it would ruin my chances for a "true" set of lab figures, it might give me palps, and C), I would lose credibility with my GP... and I still need him.

Cassie - it just gets to show how right Dr. P. was when he states in his book....when it comes to malfunctioning thyroids, 'no-one is affected in quite the same way'.... we all experience this illness and it's treatment differently, despite all the similar clinical signs and symptoms. And I for one can not accept the "one fits all" approach that most doctors adopt.

I am truly tempted to just turn my back on the NHS and even the private endo and just buy Armour and get on with it - but not everybody gets well on Armour... and if I don't - then what? Crawling back to my GP and get the 'told you so'? ... So for now I grit my teeth and play the game. Perhaps I do still just need more of the same - Wish I understood Biochemistry - I am trying hard to grasp which hormone does what, but the deeper I get into this impossible subject, the more confusing it gets.

love,

xx

Just saw your latest reply, Sheila - many thanks. Don't worry, I won't take T4 for 24 hours before testing (and I didn't for the last test either). The last T3 reading might have been affected, because we just got back from the US a couple of days before the blood draw, and the combination of active autoantibodies and jet-lag might have played tricks. Will be interesting to see what the next test says.

[Guest guest]

How was your cortisol tested? It does not look like an ASI range is why I am asking.

With a ASI I believe the 8 am cortisol should be close to the top of the range and yours is not.

I wonder what your original adrenal testing before you started tx showed?

Is it possible that you need something stronger for your adrenals and this is the root cause of your current difficulties?

Just a thought.

Mo

[Guest guest]

I understand the logic Chuck - what is worrying is that when we are telling a particular member on TPA that she is underdosed because of symptoms, we are not medically qualified, we have to be careful in how we word our messages. This is because of the possibility of another member reading your message, being on the same dose, still having symptoms and thinking "Ah, Chuck is very knowledgeable and a scientist. He knows what he is talking about, I will try an increase because I could be under-dosed too" - so trots away and puts up their dosage without consultation with their doctor. She has an adverse reaction - her doctor asks where did you get this information that you were under dosed - "TPA-UK Internet Forum" - DUH!.

We have need to tell our members that we are all different. I know that in the US the doses of thyroid hormone replacement are way above the doses recommended by our doctors in the NHS here, and believe me, 100 mcgs of thyroxine is NOT far below the usual full replacement here. The average dose in the UK is 150 mcgs. We fight tooth and nail to get this raised.

Better to have said "you could be ,,," rather than "you are....". That makes you sound as if you are acting as medical adviser to the forum, so that is the reason I made my statement. When you get to know of all the underlying associated conditions that do go along with hypothyroidism, upping or lowering the dose of thyroxine is not necessarily the first thing you look at - but this seems new to you, as it is to many medical practitioners.

As you have members of your family who also suffer with this disease, if they have not fully regained their normal health on the particular thyroid hormone replacement they are taking, would you not consider that they might be suffering one of the underlying conditions - or would you dismiss all of them?

Sheila

Sheila,You wrote:> > Chuck - you cannot tell a person they are "you are still underdosed"....It's called logic. Her dose is far below the usual full replacement for a woman. Her symptoms are all characteristic of hypoT, i.e. too low a dose. It is always possible that there is some complicating underlying condition at work, but Occam's Razor dictates trying the simplest and most direct solution first. That would be to increase the dose.That logic is also consistent with the fact that the vast majority of hypoT people titrate cleanly to full relief of symptoms, with none of the hidden underlying conditions that you seem to think afflict everyone.Chuck

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[Guest guest]

- there are many members here who have added progesterone cream to balance up their sex hormones and had quite dramatic effects. I believe that Gill is one such person. The best cream to buy I believe is Serenity, but the girls on here will tell you more about this. It is definitely worth giving it a try, and it could have a dramatic effect on your hot and cold sweats.

Luv - sheila

I am, however, seriously thinking along the lines of progesterone crème... do you think it would help? I am not sure about my oestrogen levels - I thought they were extremely low (if estradiol were oestrogen (??) - I'm not too familiar with all the different sex hormones) ...

..

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[Guest guest]

>> > How was your cortisol tested?

Hi Mo,

This one was a blood cortisol level test at 9 am... that's the usual one doctors do. I found out today that the ref range for this particular lab is 140 - 690.... mine was 353 - so, I agree, not brilliant. But then, if I understand this correctly, blood cortisol levels change at the drop of a hat anyway if anything stressful happens.... so what use is measuring blood cortisol?

I did have a salivary adrenal profile a year ago, which I messed up.... or perhaps not. Depends how one looks at it. In my brain fogged state I literally sat on my butt all day reading a book and watching the clock go by, so that I would not miss spitting in the right tube at the appointed hour... I completely forgot that the whole point of the exercise is to *stress* yourself on that day, so you get an idea how your system copes with stress ....

However, at least I have a nicely coloured graph now, showing that my adrenals were pushing out a lot of cortisol first thing in the morning and another decent lot in the afternoon... at midday though and at midnight I run on empty. So as long as all runs nice and smoothly in my life, I am on top of the world.... if someone says "booo" to me though, I break into a sweat and get a panic attack....

Over the past 10 years I've had to cope with a lot of stress - I believe that my adrenal glands have been over-stimulated during those years, and now my levels are 'dropping through' at the slightest stressful situation.

My blood test result in February showed that my K:Na ratio was very low (26) ... too low for comfort. My potassium was high, my sodium low... and this is a sure sign for adrenal trouble and could well explain my sweats - hot or cold. I have told my GP and I have told my endo... but will they listen ? The GP did not even know what I was talking about, the endo - to give him credit - did actually briefly scan the insides of my hands for discolouration - found nothing and that was it. Unless you are addisonian, your adrenals work just fine.... Adrenal fatigue??? what's that?

love,

[Guest guest]

>> - there are many members here who have added progesterone cream to balance up their sex hormones and had quite dramatic effects. I believe that Gill is one such person. The best cream to buy I believe is Serenity, but the girls on here will tell you more about this.

Hi Sheila,

Many thanks - I will give Serenity a try. If I can stop those sweats, then that would be a huge step in the right direction. I still have a fair number of other hypothyroid symptoms, and for those I will probably need more thyroxine (if I can't get T3 prescribed, then my poor body will just have to make it to order , I guess )

You know, it's very interesting what you said about the US having a much higher level of T4 supplementation than the UK. I read so many articles, and they all say that 100 mcg is just the starting point.... - I don't understand why doctors are so reluctant to sufficiently supplement. - Just look at our doggy friends - my dog, who weighs 34 kg, gets 1.6 mg per day ... that is 1600 mcg of thyroxine per day !! I weigh 60 kg, and I get 100 mcg = 0.1 mg per day.... I know, they have a different metabolism, but still....

Love,

xx

[Guest guest]

Chris

Sorry but are you female? :-) If so it could be oestrogen dominance! Don't know

if it affects males but maybe their website could help. They were exceptionally

helpful when I phoned them for advice.

Serenity by Wellsprings is a little tub of pure gold!

Its turned my life around.

I've got bad adrenals but most my sweating appears to have been sorted by this

little pot.

If its not I hope someone else can offer something constructive.

Good Luck ~kimx

[Guest guest]

Working on it ...

Bob

>

> Hi Sheila and all, I'm counting on someone to give me some answers, as

> I sure am at the end of my wisdom..... I am Hashimoto's and on

> Levothyroxin (by now 100 mcg/day) since February this year. Some of my

> many hypothyroid symptoms have improved - yet none have vanished. I

> cope. - I am normal weight (60 kg), postmenopausal (or so I am told) and

> have been suffering extremely badly from hot flushes for the past 10

> years.

[Guest guest]

I'm not female, no! , not (if you were referring to me

Bob)

Thanks

Chris(topher)

[Guest guest]

Hi

It's very easy to mistake the original writer for someone else in the

thread....

was the original author:- " auto_immune " <christina@...>

Bob

>

> I'm not female, no! , not (if you were referring

to me Bob)

>

> Thanks

>

> Chris(topher)

>

[Guest guest]

> >> > Hi Sheila and all, I'm counting on someone to give me some answers, as> > I sure am at the end of my wisdom..... I am Hashimoto's and on> > Levothyroxin (by now 100 mcg/day) since February this year. Some of my> > many hypothyroid symptoms have improved - yet none have vanished. I> > cope. - I am normal weight (60 kg), postmenopausal (or so I am told) and> > have been suffering extremely badly from hot flushes for the past 10> > years.>

((LOL)) - hi there, Bob and - here .... working on what ??? Seems I've written the above, but that must have been at least a year ago. I haven't been on Levo since Feb this year and I'm feeling pretty good now on Armour. I haven't got a clue how this came up

[Guest guest]

Hi A thermal chamaelion- cant tolerate hot or cold tends to be thyroid- check the symptoms list on http://www.drrind.com which compared adrenal and thyroid symptoms. > thyroid treatment > From: chrisjtaylor46@...> Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:09:51 +0000> Subject: Cold sweats> > Hi> > today - and other days - when i've been out and about and it's not been particularly warm, i find myself in a constant cold sweat from my face - it pours off me. It's even worse when i go from a warm shop to the cold outside.> > Is this likely to be adrenals (adrenaline?) or thyroid? it's not a nice feeling and i feel a bit of a mess now from all that hot-cold-hot cold exposure from shops/outside.> > Thanks> > Chris> > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >