Re: Cleveland Clinic Autism Center

[Guest guest]

Hi , The tuition there is about the same as at Monarch. Parents finance it the same way they would at Monarch. Autism Scholarship, 2nd mortgages, tapping into savings, relatives savings, using some private grants, or pursuing funding from their home district. I know there is an employee discount that the Cleveland Clinic offers to its employees - varying degrees of support depending on child's age - the older the child, the lesser the funding (how cruel). Anyhow, it's tough to pay for it as much as it is for Monarch services. Many of the CCCA students are dependants of Cleveland Clinic employees. The CCCA provides limited in-home support and training as part of the school program -- typically once every 6 months they do home visits. I have had more intense supports in the home b/c my child was young and I think they try to respond the best they can to help with

consistency and follow-through in the home, especially in the preschool. If your home needs exceed these included supports, they have the home program available through Outreach services that you'd have to pay extra for. My son went to the CCCA for 2 years, he was 3 when he started, so he was relatively young. However, he was not one of those few who recover through ABA. I have seen many though who have come close to typical functioning so it is just my experience that i am talking about. My son was not happy there, cried most mornings going to school. I personally think that solely behavioral interventions and sitting in a chair most of the day is not developmentally appropriate for yourg children at least. It took me 2 years to realize this because I was blidened by the hope of 'recovery'. We worked so hard...yet ABA was not the whole answer for my son. Had I seen this so

called 'recovery' with my son, I may not be sounding this sceptical or critical. Nonetheless, my experience is just as valid as those who support a strictly behavioral program for their child. My son needed more than drills. He needs movement, and lots of it; he thrives with music therapy and have been a less anxious little boy since we stopped going to the CCCA. As I said, some kids thrive with that type of therapy but it wasn't for us. My son continues to benefit from the solid behavioral building blocks though and I use them effectively when needed for both teaching skills and for behavioral management. So I appreciate this part very much. But overall, to be completely honest, I love much more to see my son function today in environments that look more like the real world. His school looks more like any school would. In these settings, he

appears and is learning to become more like any other kid his age. He is now primarily looked at as a child, and not as one with autism. In his current school he has recess - can you believe that? He has breaks every 30 minutes or he can request one if he can't hold it together any longer; he is not considered 'misbehaving' when he cries for mom or when he is sad; he is being taught about feelings and expressing those just like any other child would be. Overall, I think there is a major difference in philosophy between Monarch and the CCCA. This may be important for parents to realize off the bat as dealing with teachers and administrators may be difficult at any school if there is a major clash in beliefs, philosophies, methodologies, and even curriculum sometimes. And the childs needs are another major thing to look at --- what type of deficits is your child showing and where these can be best

addressed. I'd definitely visit the CCCA and tour their facility, interview the assistant directors before considering a change. I'd try to talk to other parents there as well. Get on their waiting list if you are serious and while you are going to be waiting (long time - 1-2 years for the preschool) explore all other options. Talk to your current school administrators to see if they can help you with any issues you may have with them. More often than not things can be worked out with the current placement - it just takes some advocacy. You know, the squeeky wheel thing. Hope this helped some. Deering <nandee_7@...> wrote: Does anyone have or had there child in the Cleveland Clinic Autism Program? I f so do they provide in home training for tparents and child? Did you see a difference in your Child? How hard is it to get childin it? any info would be appreciated. My daughter is almost 11 yrs old and goes to Monarch School, they have done a great job in the 2 years she has been there. But until she went to monarch she had no formal treatment or theraphy, it was not available where we lived, moved here from rual MS. How is the program paid for , do they take medicaid?Thanks in advance

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response. This is the answers I was looking for. I dont know if My daughter would respond to ABA either. May I ask where your child goes to school . I have been very happy with the progress Monarch has mde with my daughter since she has been going especially since she was so old before she started. In MS she wasnt even in school let a lone any therapy. Pattison <egerpatt@...> wrote: Hi , The tuition there is about the same as at Monarch. Parents finance it the same

way they would at Monarch. Autism Scholarship, 2nd mortgages, tapping into savings, relatives savings, using some private grants, or pursuing funding from their home district. I know there is an employee discount that the Cleveland Clinic offers to its employees - varying degrees of support depending on child's age - the older the child, the lesser the funding (how cruel). Anyhow, it's tough to pay for it as much as it is for Monarch services. Many of the CCCA students are dependants of Cleveland Clinic employees. The CCCA provides limited in-home support and training as part of the school program -- typically once every 6 months they do home visits. I have had more intense supports in the home b/c my child was young and I think they try to respond the best they can to help with consistency and follow-through in the home, especially in the preschool. If your home needs exceed these included

supports, they have the home program available through Outreach services that you'd have to pay extra for. My son went to the CCCA for 2 years, he was 3 when he started, so he was relatively young. However, he was not one of those few who recover through ABA. I have seen many though who have come close to typical functioning so it is just my experience that i am talking about. My son was not happy there, cried most mornings going to school. I personally think that solely behavioral interventions and sitting in a chair most of the day is not developmentally appropriate for yourg children at least. It took me 2 years to realize this because I was blidened by the hope of 'recovery'. We worked so hard...yet ABA was not the whole answer for my son. Had I seen this so called 'recovery' with my son, I may not be sounding this sceptical or critical. Nonetheless, my experience is just

as valid as those who support a strictly behavioral program for their child. My son needed more than drills. He needs movement, and lots of it; he thrives with music therapy and have been a less anxious little boy since we stopped going to the CCCA. As I said, some kids thrive with that type of therapy but it wasn't for us. My son continues to benefit from the solid behavioral building blocks though and I use them effectively when needed for both teaching skills and for behavioral management. So I appreciate this part very much. But overall, to be completely honest, I love much more to see my son function today in environments that look more like the real world. His school looks more like any school would. In these settings, he appears and is learning to become more like any other kid his age. He is now primarily looked at as a child, and not

as one with autism. In his current school he has recess - can you believe that? He has breaks every 30 minutes or he can request one if he can't hold it together any longer; he is not considered 'misbehaving' when he cries for mom or when he is sad; he is being taught about feelings and expressing those just like any other child would be. Overall, I think there is a major difference in philosophy between Monarch and the CCCA. This may be important for parents to realize off the bat as dealing with teachers and administrators may be difficult at any school if there is a major clash in beliefs, philosophies, methodologies, and even curriculum sometimes. And the childs needs are another major thing to look at --- what type of deficits is your child showing and where these can be best addressed. I'd definitely visit the CCCA and tour their facility, interview the assistant directors

before considering a change. I'd try to talk to other parents there as well. Get on their waiting list if you are serious and while you are going to be waiting (long time - 1-2 years for the preschool) explore all other options. Talk to your current school administrators to see if they can help you with any issues you may have with them. More often than not things can be worked out with the current placement - it just takes some advocacy. You know, the squeeky wheel thing. Hope this helped some. Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: Does anyone have or had there child in the Cleveland Clinic Autism Program? I f so do they provide in home training for tparents and child? Did you see a difference in your

Child? How hard is it to get childin it? any info would be appreciated. My daughter is almost 11 yrs old and goes to Monarch School, they have done a great job in the 2 years she has been there. But until she went to monarch she had no formal treatment or theraphy, it was not available where we lived, moved here from rual MS. How is the program paid for , do they take medicaid?Thanks in advance

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[Guest guest]

, You are welcome. This si the first time that I was able to write about our experiences at the CCCA without getting too emotional about it. I was hoping to be a good resource to you or those investigating their options. My son goes to Monarch too. We are very happy :-) Maybe I will see you there sometimes at one of the parent meetings? The next one is on the 26th in the morning! Good luck to you and your daughter! Deering <nandee_7@...> wrote: From: Deering <nandee_7@...>Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:02:08 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [ ] Cleveland Clinic Autism

Center Thank you for your response. This is the answers I was looking for. I dont know if My daughter would respond to ABA either. May I ask where your child goes to school . I have been very happy with the progress Monarch has mde with my daughter since she has been going especially since she was so old before she started. In MS she wasnt even in school let a lone any therapy. Pattison <egerpatt > wrote: Hi , The tuition there is about the same as at Monarch. Parents finance

it the same way they would at Monarch. Autism Scholarship, 2nd mortgages, tapping into savings, relatives savings, using some private grants, or pursuing funding from their home district. I know there is an employee discount that the Cleveland Clinic offers to its employees - varying degrees of support depending on child's age - the older the child, the lesser the funding (how cruel). Anyhow, it's tough to pay for it as much as it is for Monarch services. Many of the CCCA students are dependants of Cleveland Clinic employees. The CCCA provides limited in-home support and training as part of the school program -- typically once every 6 months they do home visits. I have had more intense supports in the home b/c my child was young and I think they try to respond the best they can to help with consistency and follow-through in the home, especially in the preschool. If your home needs exceed these

included supports, they have the home program available through Outreach services that you'd have to pay extra for. My son went to the CCCA for 2 years, he was 3 when he started, so he was relatively young. However, he was not one of those few who recover through ABA. I have seen many though who have come close to typical functioning so it is just my experience that i am talking about. My son was not happy there, cried most mornings going to school. I personally think that solely behavioral interventions and sitting in a chair most of the day is not developmentally appropriate for yourg children at least. It took me 2 years to realize this because I was blidened by the hope of 'recovery'. We worked so hard...yet ABA was not the whole answer for my son. Had I seen this so called 'recovery' with my son, I may not be sounding this sceptical or critical. Nonetheless, my experience

is just as valid as those who support a strictly behavioral program for their child. My son needed more than drills. He needs movement, and lots of it; he thrives with music therapy and have been a less anxious little boy since we stopped going to the CCCA. As I said, some kids thrive with that type of therapy but it wasn't for us. My son continues to benefit from the solid behavioral building blocks though and I use them effectively when needed for both teaching skills and for behavioral management. So I appreciate this part very much. But overall, to be completely honest, I love much more to see my son function today in environments that look more like the real world. His school looks more like any school would. In these settings, he appears and is learning to become more like any other kid his age. He is now primarily looked at as a child,

and not as one with autism. In his current school he has recess - can you believe that? He has breaks every 30 minutes or he can request one if he can't hold it together any longer; he is not considered 'misbehaving' when he cries for mom or when he is sad; he is being taught about feelings and expressing those just like any other child would be. Overall, I think there is a major difference in philosophy between Monarch and the CCCA. This may be important for parents to realize off the bat as dealing with teachers and administrators may be difficult at any school if there is a major clash in beliefs, philosophies, methodologies, and even curriculum sometimes. And the childs needs are another major thing to look at --- what type of deficits is your child showing and where these can be best addressed. I'd definitely visit the CCCA and tour their facility, interview the assistant

directors before considering a change. I'd try to talk to other parents there as well. Get on their waiting list if you are serious and while you are going to be waiting (long time - 1-2 years for the preschool) explore all other options. Talk to your current school administrators to see if they can help you with any issues you may have with them. More often than not things can be worked out with the current placement - it just takes some advocacy. You know, the squeeky wheel thing. Hope this helped some. Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: Does anyone have or had there child in the Cleveland Clinic Autism Program? I f so do they provide in home training for tparents and child? Did you see a difference in

your Child? How hard is it to get childin it? any info would be appreciated. My daughter is almost 11 yrs old and goes to Monarch School, they have done a great job in the 2 years she has been there. But until she went to monarch she had no formal treatment or theraphy, it was not available where we lived, moved here from rual MS. How is the program paid for , do they take medicaid?Thanks in advance Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

[Guest guest]

, I wont be able to come to this one, I have another daughter that has strted having seizures and she has an app that day with the neuro. But maybe I can make the next one. Pattison <egerpatt@...> wrote: , You are welcome. This si the first time that I was able to write about our experiences at the CCCA without getting too emotional about it. I was hoping to be a good resource to you or those investigating their options. My

son goes to Monarch too. We are very happy :-) Maybe I will see you there sometimes at one of the parent meetings? The next one is on the 26th in the morning! Good luck to you and your daughter! Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: From: Deering <nandee_7 >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:02:08 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [ ] Cleveland Clinic Autism Center Thank you for your response. This is the answers I was looking for. I dont know if My daughter would respond to ABA either. May I ask where your child goes to school . I have been very happy with the progress Monarch has mde with my daughter since she has been going especially since she was so old before she started.

In MS she wasnt even in school let a lone any therapy. Pattison <egerpatt > wrote: Hi , The tuition there is about the same as at Monarch. Parents finance it the same way they would at Monarch. Autism Scholarship, 2nd mortgages, tapping into savings, relatives savings, using some private grants, or pursuing funding from their home district. I know there is an employee discount that the Cleveland Clinic offers to its employees - varying degrees of support depending on child's age - the older the child, the lesser the funding (how cruel). Anyhow, it's tough to pay for it as much as it is for Monarch services. Many of the CCCA students are dependants of Cleveland Clinic employees. The CCCA provides limited in-home support and training

as part of the school program -- typically once every 6 months they do home visits. I have had more intense supports in the home b/c my child was young and I think they try to respond the best they can to help with consistency and follow-through in the home, especially in the preschool. If your home needs exceed these included supports, they have the home program available through Outreach services that you'd have to pay extra for. My son went to the CCCA for 2 years, he was 3 when he started, so he was relatively young. However, he was not one of those few who recover through ABA. I have seen many though who have come close to typical functioning so it is just my experience that i am talking about. My son was not happy there, cried most mornings going to school. I personally think that solely behavioral interventions and sitting in a chair most of the day is not developmentally appropriate

for yourg children at least. It took me 2 years to realize this because I was blidened by the hope of 'recovery'. We worked so hard...yet ABA was not the whole answer for my son. Had I seen this so called 'recovery' with my son, I may not be sounding this sceptical or critical. Nonetheless, my experience is just as valid as those who support a strictly behavioral program for their child. My son needed more than drills. He needs movement, and lots of it; he thrives with music therapy and have been a less anxious little boy since we stopped going to the CCCA. As I said, some kids thrive with that type of therapy but it wasn't for us. My son continues to benefit from the solid behavioral building blocks though and I use them effectively when needed for both teaching skills and for behavioral management. So I appreciate this part very much. But overall,

to be completely honest, I love much more to see my son function today in environments that look more like the real world. His school looks more like any school would. In these settings, he appears and is learning to become more like any other kid his age. He is now primarily looked at as a child, and not as one with autism. In his current school he has recess - can you believe that? He has breaks every 30 minutes or he can request one if he can't hold it together any longer; he is not considered 'misbehaving' when he cries for mom or when he is sad; he is being taught about feelings and expressing those just like any other child would be. Overall, I think there is a major difference in philosophy between Monarch and the CCCA. This may be important for parents to realize off the bat as dealing with teachers and administrators may be difficult at any school if there is a major clash

in beliefs, philosophies, methodologies, and even curriculum sometimes. And the childs needs are another major thing to look at --- what type of deficits is your child showing and where these can be best addressed. I'd definitely visit the CCCA and tour their facility, interview the assistant directors before considering a change. I'd try to talk to other parents there as well. Get on their waiting list if you are serious and while you are going to be waiting (long time - 1-2 years for the preschool) explore all other options. Talk to your current school administrators to see if they can help you with any issues you may have with them. More often than not things can be worked out with the current placement - it just takes some advocacy. You know, the squeeky wheel thing. Hope this helped some. Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: Does anyone have or had there child in the Cleveland Clinic Autism Program? I f so do they provide in home training for tparents and child? Did you see a difference in your Child? How hard is it to get childin it? any info would be appreciated. My daughter is almost 11 yrs old and goes to Monarch School, they have done a great job in the 2 years she has been there. But until she went to monarch she had no formal treatment or theraphy, it was not available where we lived, moved here from rual MS. How is the program paid for , do they take medicaid?Thanks in advance Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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[Guest guest]

By the way I am in Shaker are you any where near here? Pattison <egerpatt@...> wrote: , You are welcome. This si the first time that I was able to write about our experiences at the CCCA without getting too emotional about it. I was hoping to be a good resource to you or those investigating their options. My son goes to Monarch too. We are very happy :-) Maybe I will see you there sometimes at one of the parent

meetings? The next one is on the 26th in the morning! Good luck to you and your daughter! Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: From: Deering <nandee_7 >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:02:08 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [ ] Cleveland Clinic Autism Center Thank you for your response. This is the answers I was looking for. I dont know if My daughter would respond to ABA either. May I ask where your child goes to school . I have been very happy with the progress Monarch has mde with my daughter since she has been going especially since she was so old before she started. In MS she wasnt even in school let a lone any therapy. Pattison

<egerpatt > wrote: Hi , The tuition there is about the same as at Monarch. Parents finance it the same way they would at Monarch. Autism Scholarship, 2nd mortgages, tapping into savings, relatives savings, using some private grants, or pursuing funding from their home district. I know there is an employee discount that the Cleveland Clinic offers to its employees - varying degrees of support depending on child's age - the older the child, the lesser the funding (how cruel). Anyhow, it's tough to pay for it as much as it is for Monarch services. Many of the CCCA students are dependants of Cleveland Clinic employees. The CCCA provides limited in-home support and training as part of the school program -- typically once every 6 months they do home

visits. I have had more intense supports in the home b/c my child was young and I think they try to respond the best they can to help with consistency and follow-through in the home, especially in the preschool. If your home needs exceed these included supports, they have the home program available through Outreach services that you'd have to pay extra for. My son went to the CCCA for 2 years, he was 3 when he started, so he was relatively young. However, he was not one of those few who recover through ABA. I have seen many though who have come close to typical functioning so it is just my experience that i am talking about. My son was not happy there, cried most mornings going to school. I personally think that solely behavioral interventions and sitting in a chair most of the day is not developmentally appropriate for yourg children at least. It took me 2 years to realize this

because I was blidened by the hope of 'recovery'. We worked so hard...yet ABA was not the whole answer for my son. Had I seen this so called 'recovery' with my son, I may not be sounding this sceptical or critical. Nonetheless, my experience is just as valid as those who support a strictly behavioral program for their child. My son needed more than drills. He needs movement, and lots of it; he thrives with music therapy and have been a less anxious little boy since we stopped going to the CCCA. As I said, some kids thrive with that type of therapy but it wasn't for us. My son continues to benefit from the solid behavioral building blocks though and I use them effectively when needed for both teaching skills and for behavioral management. So I appreciate this part very much. But overall, to be completely honest, I love much more to see my

son function today in environments that look more like the real world. His school looks more like any school would. In these settings, he appears and is learning to become more like any other kid his age. He is now primarily looked at as a child, and not as one with autism. In his current school he has recess - can you believe that? He has breaks every 30 minutes or he can request one if he can't hold it together any longer; he is not considered 'misbehaving' when he cries for mom or when he is sad; he is being taught about feelings and expressing those just like any other child would be. Overall, I think there is a major difference in philosophy between Monarch and the CCCA. This may be important for parents to realize off the bat as dealing with teachers and administrators may be difficult at any school if there is a major clash in beliefs, philosophies, methodologies, and even

curriculum sometimes. And the childs needs are another major thing to look at --- what type of deficits is your child showing and where these can be best addressed. I'd definitely visit the CCCA and tour their facility, interview the assistant directors before considering a change. I'd try to talk to other parents there as well. Get on their waiting list if you are serious and while you are going to be waiting (long time - 1-2 years for the preschool) explore all other options. Talk to your current school administrators to see if they can help you with any issues you may have with them. More often than not things can be worked out with the current placement - it just takes some advocacy. You know, the squeeky wheel thing. Hope this helped some. Deering <nandee_7 >

wrote: Does anyone have or had there child in the Cleveland Clinic Autism Program? I f so do they provide in home training for tparents and child? Did you see a difference in your Child? How hard is it to get childin it? any info would be appreciated. My daughter is almost 11 yrs old and goes to Monarch School, they have done a great job in the 2 years she has been there. But until she went to monarch she had no formal treatment or theraphy, it was not available where we lived, moved here from rual MS. How is the program paid for , do they take medicaid?Thanks in advance Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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[Guest guest]

Cleveland Clinic utilizes a lot of the principles from DTT. DTT is a

form of ABA, but it is not the only form. Monarch also employs a lot

of methods of ABA, yet implements it in a floortime, VB approach. I

guess what I am saying is not all ABA is sit and skill and drill. A

well run program actually has very little of that. So don't knock

ABA...it's the methodology you should knock.

>

>

> ---------------------------------

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Search.

>

[Guest guest]

Joining this conversation late - we are in University Heights, very close to you. We have a 10 year old son, , who has autism and is hyperlexic. How old is your daughter? Maybe we could get together?

Gail

On 2/21/08, Deering <nandee_7@...> wrote:

By the way I am in Shaker are you any where near here?

Pattison <egerpatt@...> wrote:

,

You are welcome. This si the first time that I was able to write about our experiences at the CCCA without getting too emotional about it. I was hoping to be a good resource to you or those investigating their options.

My son goes to Monarch too. We are very happy :-) Maybe I will see you there sometimes at one of the parent meetings? The next one is on the 26th in the morning!

Good luck to you and your daughter!

Deering <nandee_7@...> wrote:

From: Deering <nandee_7@...>

Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:02:08 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [ ] Cleveland Clinic Autism Center

Thank you for your response. This is the answers I was looking for. I dont know if My daughter would respond to ABA either. May I ask where your child goes to school . I have been very happy with the progress Monarch has mde with my daughter since she has been going especially since she was so old before she started. In MS she wasnt even in school let a lone any therapy.

Pattison <egerpatt@...> wrote:

Hi ,

The tuition there is about the same as at Monarch. Parents finance it the same way they would at Monarch. Autism Scholarship, 2nd mortgages, tapping into savings, relatives savings, using some private grants, or pursuing funding from their home district. I know there is an employee discount that the Cleveland Clinic offers to its employees - varying degrees of support depending on child's age - the older the child, the lesser the funding (how cruel). Anyhow, it's tough to pay for it as much as it is for Monarch services. Many of the CCCA students are dependants of Cleveland Clinic employees.

The CCCA provides limited in-home support and training as part of the school program -- typically once every 6 months they do home visits. I have had more intense supports in the home b/c my child was young and I think they try to respond the best they can to help with consistency and follow-through in the home, especially in the preschool. If your home needs exceed these included supports, they have the home program available through Outreach services that you'd have to pay extra for.

My son went to the CCCA for 2 years, he was 3 when he started, so he was relatively young. However, he was not one of those few who recover through ABA. I have seen many though who have come close to typical functioning so it is just my experience that i am talking about. My son was not happy there, cried most mornings going to school. I personally think that solely behavioral interventions and sitting in a chair most of the day is not developmentally appropriate for yourg children at least. It took me 2 years to realize this because I was blidened by the hope of 'recovery'. We worked so hard...yet ABA was not the whole answer for my son. Had I seen this so called 'recovery' with my son, I may not be sounding this sceptical or critical. Nonetheless, my experience is just as valid as those who support a strictly behavioral program for their child.

My son needed more than drills. He needs movement, and lots of it; he thrives with music therapy and have been a less anxious little boy since we stopped going to the CCCA. As I said, some kids thrive with that type of therapy but it wasn't for us. My son continues to benefit from the solid behavioral building blocks though and I use them effectively when needed for both teaching skills and for behavioral management. So I appreciate this part very much. But overall, to be completely honest, I love much more to see my son function today in environments that look more like the real world. His school looks more like any school would. In these settings, he appears and is learning to become more like any other kid his age. He is now primarily looked at as a child, and not as one with autism. In his current school he has recess - can you believe that? He has breaks every 30 minutes or he can request one if he can't hold it together any longer; he is not considered 'misbehaving' when he cries for mom or when he is sad; he is being taught about feelings and expressing those just like any other child would be.

Overall, I think there is a major difference in philosophy between Monarch and the CCCA. This may be important for parents to realize off the bat as dealing with teachers and administrators may be difficult at any school if there is a major clash in beliefs, philosophies, methodologies, and even curriculum sometimes. And the childs needs are another major thing to look at --- what type of deficits is your child showing and where these can be best addressed.

I'd definitely visit the CCCA and tour their facility, interview the assistant directors before considering a change. I'd try to talk to other parents there as well. Get on their waiting list if you are serious and while you are going to be waiting (long time - 1-2 years for the preschool) explore all other options. Talk to your current school administrators to see if they can help you with any issues you may have with them. More often than not things can be worked out with the current placement - it just takes some advocacy. You know, the squeeky wheel thing.

Hope this helped some.

Deering <nandee_7@...> wrote:

Does anyone have or had there child in the Cleveland Clinic Autism Program? I f so do they provide in home training for tparents and child? Did you see a difference in your Child? How hard is it to get childin it? any info would be appreciated. My daughter is almost 11 yrs

old and goes to Monarch School, they have done a great job in the 2 years she has been there. But until she went to monarch she had no formal treatment or theraphy, it was not available where we lived, moved here from rual MS. How is the program paid for , do they take

medicaid?Thanks in advance

Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

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[Guest guest]

Hi there, Isn't ABA a methodology? However, I really did not knock ABA. I said I am using it and benefiting from solid building blocks that were thaught through the use of ABA and I was grateful for these. My email said much more than that. Also, I agree and know that Monarch applies ABA in their teaching as well but they do it in the natural environment and in combination with other approaches as well. Besides, there is a lot of differences between the two schools and their philosophies that I am only beginning to understand. Thanks for allowing me to talk about my experiences. pcrawfo1 <PCrawfo1@...> wrote: Cleveland Clinic utilizes a lot of the principles from DTT. DTT is a form of ABA, but it is not the only form. Monarch also employs a lot of methods of ABA, yet implements it in a floortime, VB approach. I guess what I am saying is not all ABA is sit and skill and drill. A well run program actually has very little of that. So don't knock ABA...it's the methodology you should knock. > > > ---------------------------------> Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.>

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail and and anyone who is on the east side or willing to drive for a chat! I would love to do coffee! How does the first week of March look for you all? I am flexible in the mornings on the 5th, 6th and 7th. We can meet for coffee at Phenix on Lee? Let me know, Gail Buffington <gailbuf@...> wrote: Joining this conversation late - we are in University Heights, very close to

you. We have a 10 year old son, , who has autism and is hyperlexic. How old is your daughter? Maybe we could get together? Gail On 2/21/08, Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: By the way I am in Shaker are you any where near here? Pattison <egerpatt > wrote: , You are welcome. This si the first time that I

was able to write about our experiences at the CCCA without getting too emotional about it. I was hoping to be a good resource to you or those investigating their options. My son goes to Monarch too. We are very happy :-) Maybe I will see you there sometimes at one of the parent meetings? The next one is on the 26th in the morning! Good luck to you and your daughter! Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: From: Deering <nandee_7 >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:02:08 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [ ] Cleveland Clinic Autism

Center Thank you for your response. This is the answers I was looking for. I dont know if My daughter would respond to ABA either. May I ask where your child goes to school . I have been very happy with the progress Monarch has mde with my daughter since she has been going especially since she was so old before she started. In MS she wasnt even in school let a lone any therapy. Pattison <egerpatt > wrote: Hi , The tuition there is about the same as at Monarch. Parents finance it the same way they would at Monarch. Autism Scholarship, 2nd mortgages, tapping into savings, relatives savings, using some private grants, or pursuing funding from their home district. I know there is an employee discount that the Cleveland

Clinic offers to its employees - varying degrees of support depending on child's age - the older the child, the lesser the funding (how cruel). Anyhow, it's tough to pay for it as much as it is for Monarch services. Many of the CCCA students are dependants of Cleveland Clinic employees. The CCCA provides limited in-home support and training as part of the school program -- typically once every 6 months they do home visits. I have had more intense supports in the home b/c my child was young and I think they try to respond the best they can to help with consistency and follow-through in the home, especially in the preschool. If your home needs exceed these included supports, they have the home program available through Outreach services that you'd have to pay extra for. My son went to the CCCA for 2 years, he was 3 when he started, so he was relatively young.

However, he was not one of those few who recover through ABA. I have seen many though who have come close to typical functioning so it is just my experience that i am talking about. My son was not happy there, cried most mornings going to school. I personally think that solely behavioral interventions and sitting in a chair most of the day is not developmentally appropriate for yourg children at least. It took me 2 years to realize this because I was blidened by the hope of 'recovery'. We worked so hard...yet ABA was not the whole answer for my son. Had I seen this so called 'recovery' with my son, I may not be sounding this sceptical or critical. Nonetheless, my experience is just as valid as those who support a strictly behavioral program for their child. My son needed more than drills. He needs movement, and lots of it; he thrives with music therapy and have been a less

anxious little boy since we stopped going to the CCCA. As I said, some kids thrive with that type of therapy but it wasn't for us. My son continues to benefit from the solid behavioral building blocks though and I use them effectively when needed for both teaching skills and for behavioral management. So I appreciate this part very much. But overall, to be completely honest, I love much more to see my son function today in environments that look more like the real world. His school looks more like any school would. In these settings, he appears and is learning to become more like any other kid his age. He is now primarily looked at as a child, and not as one with autism. In his current school he has recess - can you believe that? He has breaks every 30 minutes or he can request one if he can't hold it together any longer; he is not considered 'misbehaving' when he cries for mom or

when he is sad; he is being taught about feelings and expressing those just like any other child would be. Overall, I think there is a major difference in philosophy between Monarch and the CCCA. This may be important for parents to realize off the bat as dealing with teachers and administrators may be difficult at any school if there is a major clash in beliefs, philosophies, methodologies, and even curriculum sometimes. And the childs needs are another major thing to look at --- what type of deficits is your child showing and where these can be best addressed. I'd definitely visit the CCCA and tour their facility, interview the assistant directors before considering a change. I'd try to talk to other parents there as well. Get on their waiting list if you are serious and while you are going to be waiting (long time - 1-2 years for the preschool) explore all other

options. Talk to your current school administrators to see if they can help you with any issues you may have with them. More often than not things can be worked out with the current placement - it just takes some advocacy. You know, the squeeky wheel thing. Hope this helped some. Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: Does anyone have or had there child in the Cleveland Clinic Autism Program? I f so do they provide in home training for tparents and child? Did you see a difference in your Child? How hard is it to get childin it? any info would be appreciated. My daughter is almost 11 yrs old and goes to Monarch School, they have done a great job in the 2 years she has been there.

But until she went to monarch she had no formal treatment or theraphy, it was not available where we lived, moved here from rual MS. How is the program paid for , do they take medicaid?Thanks in advance Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

[Guest guest]

Hi Gail, my daughter will be 11yrs in March,Would love to get together with others with children with autism. Gail Buffington <gailbuf@...> wrote: Joining this conversation late - we are in University Heights, very close to you. We have a 10 year old son, , who has autism and is hyperlexic. How old is your daughter? Maybe we could get together? Gail On 2/21/08,

Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: By the way I am in Shaker are you any where near here? Pattison <egerpatt > wrote: , You are welcome. This si the first time that I was able to write about our experiences at the CCCA without getting too emotional about it. I was hoping to be a good resource to you or those investigating their options. My son goes to Monarch too. We are very happy

:-) Maybe I will see you there sometimes at one of the parent meetings? The next one is on the 26th in the morning! Good luck to you and your daughter! Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: From: Deering <nandee_7 >Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2008 09:02:08 -0800 (PST)Subject: Re: [ ] Cleveland Clinic Autism Center Thank you for your response. This is the answers I was looking for. I dont know if My daughter would respond to ABA either. May I ask where your child goes to school . I have been very happy with the progress Monarch has mde

with my daughter since she has been going especially since she was so old before she started. In MS she wasnt even in school let a lone any therapy. Pattison <egerpatt > wrote: Hi , The tuition there is about the same as at Monarch. Parents finance it the same way they would at Monarch. Autism Scholarship, 2nd mortgages, tapping into savings, relatives savings, using some private grants, or pursuing funding from their home district. I know there is an employee discount that the Cleveland Clinic offers to its employees - varying degrees of support depending on child's age - the older the child, the lesser the funding (how cruel). Anyhow, it's tough to pay for it as much as it is for Monarch services. Many of the CCCA students are dependants

of Cleveland Clinic employees. The CCCA provides limited in-home support and training as part of the school program -- typically once every 6 months they do home visits. I have had more intense supports in the home b/c my child was young and I think they try to respond the best they can to help with consistency and follow-through in the home, especially in the preschool. If your home needs exceed these included supports, they have the home program available through Outreach services that you'd have to pay extra for. My son went to the CCCA for 2 years, he was 3 when he started, so he was relatively young. However, he was not one of those few who recover through ABA. I have seen many though who have come close to typical functioning so it is just my experience that i am talking about. My son was not happy there, cried most mornings going to school. I

personally think that solely behavioral interventions and sitting in a chair most of the day is not developmentally appropriate for yourg children at least. It took me 2 years to realize this because I was blidened by the hope of 'recovery'. We worked so hard...yet ABA was not the whole answer for my son. Had I seen this so called 'recovery' with my son, I may not be sounding this sceptical or critical. Nonetheless, my experience is just as valid as those who support a strictly behavioral program for their child. My son needed more than drills. He needs movement, and lots of it; he thrives with music therapy and have been a less anxious little boy since we stopped going to the CCCA. As I said, some kids thrive with that type of therapy but it wasn't for us. My son continues to benefit from the solid behavioral building blocks though and I use them effectively when

needed for both teaching skills and for behavioral management. So I appreciate this part very much. But overall, to be completely honest, I love much more to see my son function today in environments that look more like the real world. His school looks more like any school would. In these settings, he appears and is learning to become more like any other kid his age. He is now primarily looked at as a child, and not as one with autism. In his current school he has recess - can you believe that? He has breaks every 30 minutes or he can request one if he can't hold it together any longer; he is not considered 'misbehaving' when he cries for mom or when he is sad; he is being taught about feelings and expressing those just like any other child would be. Overall, I think there is a major difference in philosophy between Monarch and the CCCA. This may be important for

parents to realize off the bat as dealing with teachers and administrators may be difficult at any school if there is a major clash in beliefs, philosophies, methodologies, and even curriculum sometimes. And the childs needs are another major thing to look at --- what type of deficits is your child showing and where these can be best addressed. I'd definitely visit the CCCA and tour their facility, interview the assistant directors before considering a change. I'd try to talk to other parents there as well. Get on their waiting list if you are serious and while you are going to be waiting (long time - 1-2 years for the preschool) explore all other options. Talk to your current school administrators to see if they can help you with any issues you may have with them. More often than not things can be worked out with the current placement - it just takes some advocacy. You know, the squeeky wheel thing.

Hope this helped some. Deering <nandee_7 > wrote: Does anyone have or had there child in the Cleveland Clinic Autism Program? I f so do they provide in home training for tparents and child? Did you see a difference in your Child? How hard is it to get childin it? any info would be appreciated. My daughter is almost 11 yrs old and goes to Monarch School, they have done a great job in the 2 years she has been there. But until she went to monarch she had no formal treatment or theraphy, it was not available where we lived, moved here from rual MS. How is the program paid for , do they take medicaid?Thanks in advance Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search. Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Search.

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

ABA (Applied Behavioral Analysis)is an umbrella term. There are

numerous methods to implement it...DTT, VB, Floortime and even TEACH

to some degree..all like to call it their own name...but they share

many underlying characteristics. Each has their own pros and cons.

Just like anything else if you put all your eggs in one basket, if

it fails you are lost. An ideal program will use blended approaches

that include many that still fall under " ABA " just different

methodolgies to implement the skills or behaviors being taught. The

reason why I wrote earlier was to try and clarify for the parents

who might be new, reading and walking away with the idea that " ABA "

is strictly skill and drill, in a chair for hours on end, mindless

teaching. Our child has been involved in a very successful ABA

program....but you would not believe the amount of parents who have

said how horrible " ABA " is and how their child is either " not that

severe " or link ABA to Lovaas style (DTT) and how it would be

robbing their spirits from them. Our first consultant was very DTT

(and came with high recommendations)...the repeated drills over and

over and over increased our childs bad behaviors out of

control...Our second consultant, who is a BCBA, actually had to do a

fair amount of " un " teaching to repair the damage done. Just like

anything...there are good programs and there are not so good

programs, and sometimes the not so good can do more damage than good.

Any child/person would benefit from " good " ABA...(including many of

our husbands)....see a behavior, analyze it, utilize a reward system

to modify the behavior into something more socially acceptable. It's

a rather huge misconception in northeast Ohio in

particular....probably because of the lack of centers, lack of

workshops, etc, to choose from and the saturation of DTT in this

area, as to what ABA truly is.

Unfortunately for many of us, the form of ABA implemented in an area

is often very regionalized....what is popular here, isn't on the

west coast, what's popular there isn't in the south...and so forth

and so forth. Good consultants will keep open minds to what works

well with each child individually....there is no cookie cutter

approach.

I wasn't trying to bash you....just trying to clarify some points

for parents who are new to the terminology.

> Cleveland Clinic utilizes a lot of the principles from

DTT. DTT is a

> form of ABA, but it is not the only form. Monarch also employs a

lot

> of methods of ABA, yet implements it in a floortime, VB approach.

I

> guess what I am saying is not all ABA is sit and skill and drill.

A

> well run program actually has very little of that. So don't knock

> ABA...it's the methodology you should knock.

> >

> >

> > ---------------------------------

> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with

> Search.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks! I agree and this was my main point, that the approach you take in treatment should be always individualized. The way you've explained ABA here is somewhat novel to me. Until now I undestood that ABA is a methodology, with variations. Many professionals also somehow asserted that ABA was on the one end of autism intervetions while floortime would be on the other end - the opposite end. That really never totally made sense to me b/c I felt that following the child's lead is compatible with discreet trials and positive reinforcement! And as you said, the need to analyze behavior and understand where it stems from as well as design a plan to change behavior is a must for good therapy and parenting in general. I like the way you have explained it to us. Makes sense to me. So thank you! pcrawfo1 <PCrawfo1@...> wrote: ABA (Applied Behavioral Analysis)is an umbrella term. There are numerous methods to implement it...DTT, VB, Floortime and even TEACH to some degree..all like to call it their own name...but they share many underlying characteristics. Each has their own pros and cons. Just like anything else if you put all your eggs in one basket, if it fails you are lost. An ideal program will use blended approaches that include many that still fall under "ABA" just different

methodolgies to implement the skills or behaviors being taught. The reason why I wrote earlier was to try and clarify for the parents who might be new, reading and walking away with the idea that "ABA" is strictly skill and drill, in a chair for hours on end, mindless teaching. Our child has been involved in a very successful ABA program....but you would not believe the amount of parents who have said how horrible "ABA" is and how their child is either "not that severe" or link ABA to Lovaas style (DTT) and how it would be robbing their spirits from them. Our first consultant was very DTT (and came with high recommendations)...the repeated drills over and over and over increased our childs bad behaviors out of control...Our second consultant, who is a BCBA, actually had to do a fair amount of "un" teaching to repair the damage done. Just like anything...there are good programs and there are not so good

programs, and sometimes the not so good can do more damage than good.Any child/person would benefit from "good" ABA...(including many of our husbands)....see a behavior, analyze it, utilize a reward system to modify the behavior into something more socially acceptable. It's a rather huge misconception in northeast Ohio in particular....probably because of the lack of centers, lack of workshops, etc, to choose from and the saturation of DTT in this area, as to what ABA truly is.Unfortunately for many of us, the form of ABA implemented in an area is often very regionalized....what is popular here, isn't on the west coast, what's popular there isn't in the south...and so forth and so forth. Good consultants will keep open minds to what works well with each child individually....there is no cookie cutter approach.I wasn't trying to bash you....just trying to clarify some points for

parents who are new to the terminology.> Cleveland Clinic

utilizes a lot of the principles from DTT. DTT is a > form of ABA, but it is not the only form. Monarch also employs a lot > of methods of ABA, yet implements it in a floortime, VB approach. I > guess what I am saying is not all ABA is sit and skill and drill. A > well run program actually has very little of that. So don't knock > ABA...it's the methodology you should knock. > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search.> >>

[Guest guest]

Hi--- What is "BCBA"? I have not heard that term before! Laurie Pattison <egerpatt@...> wrote: Thanks! I agree and this was my main point, that the approach you take in treatment should be always individualized. The way you've explained ABA here is somewhat novel to me. Until now I undestood that ABA is a methodology, with variations. Many professionals also somehow asserted that ABA was on the one end of autism intervetions while

floortime would be on the other end - the opposite end. That really never totally made sense to me b/c I felt that following the child's lead is compatible with discreet trials and positive reinforcement! And as you said, the need to analyze behavior and understand where it stems from as well as design a plan to change behavior is a must for good therapy and parenting in general. I like the way you have explained it to us. Makes sense to me. So thank you! pcrawfo1 <PCrawfo1 > wrote: ABA (Applied Behavioral Analysis)is an umbrella term. There are numerous methods to implement it...DTT, VB, Floortime and even TEACH to some degree..all like to call it their own name...but they share many underlying

characteristics. Each has their own pros and cons. Just like anything else if you put all your eggs in one basket, if it fails you are lost. An ideal program will use blended approaches that include many that still fall under "ABA" just different methodolgies to implement the skills or behaviors being taught. The reason why I wrote earlier was to try and clarify for the parents who might be new, reading and walking away with the idea that "ABA" is strictly skill and drill, in a chair for hours on end, mindless teaching. Our child has been involved in a very successful ABA program....but you would not believe the amount of parents who have said how horrible "ABA" is and how their child is either "not that severe" or link ABA to Lovaas style (DTT) and how it would be robbing their spirits from them. Our first consultant was very DTT (and came with high recommendations)...the repeated drills over and over and over

increased our childs bad behaviors out of control...Our second consultant, who is a BCBA, actually had to do a fair amount of "un" teaching to repair the damage done. Just like anything...there are good programs and there are not so good programs, and sometimes the not so good can do more damage than good.Any child/person would benefit from "good" ABA...(including many of our husbands)....see a behavior, analyze it, utilize a reward system to modify the behavior into something more socially acceptable. It's a rather huge misconception in northeast Ohio in particular....probably because of the lack of centers, lack of workshops, etc, to choose from and the saturation of DTT in this area, as to what ABA truly is.Unfortunately for many of us, the form of ABA implemented in an area is often very regionalized....what is popular here, isn't on the west coast, what's popular there isn't in the south...and

so forth and so forth. Good consultants will keep open minds to what works well with each child individually....there is no cookie cutter approach.I wasn't trying to bash you....just trying to clarify some points for parents who are new to the terminology.> Cleveland Clinic utilizes a lot of the principles from DTT. DTT is a > form of ABA, but it is not the only form. Monarch also employs a lot > of methods of ABA, yet implements it in a floortime, VB approach. I > guess what I am saying is not all ABA is sit and skill and drill. A > well run program actually has very little of that. So don't knock > ABA...it's the methodology you should knock. > > > > > > ---------------------------------> > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with > Search.> >>

[Guest guest]

Board Certified Behavior Analyst.

It is a rather strict certification process to make sure the person is

adequately educated/experienced to provide services...Ohio doesn't

recognize it as much, however, it does at least differentiate from

anyone else out there who likes to claim they are a " consultlant " .

Currently in Ohio there really aren't any " legal " recourses against

anyone who puts themselves out to be an ABA consultant..so your

neighbor who has never worked with a kid, could print up some business

cards and say he is a consultant....being Board Certified at least

puts regulations, qualifications in place and maintains a certain

level of competency and professionalism.

"

[Guest guest]

Thank you. Did you go through an agency in the Cleveland area for your home program?pcrawfo1 <PCrawfo1@...> wrote: Board Certified Behavior Analyst.It is a rather strict certification process to make sure the person is adequately educated/experienced to provide services...Ohio doesn't recognize it as much, however, it does at least differentiate from anyone else out there who likes to claim they are a "consultlant". Currently in Ohio there really aren't any "legal" recourses against anyone who puts

themselves out to be an ABA consultant..so your neighbor who has never worked with a kid, could print up some business cards and say he is a consultant....being Board Certified at least puts regulations, qualifications in place and maintains a certain level of competency and professionalism."

[Guest guest]

I reviewed the programs in the Cleveland area when we started at the

time and was unimpressed (Monarch was just beginning home

programs)....I was recommended to Columbus Childrens (which was our

first consultant) After two months we realized that they were too

DTT for what we wanted (not to mention the escalating behaviors) and

had spoken with Dr. Sundberg (of Michigan) about managing our

program. I also had attended a workshop by Vince Carbone and had

toyed with going to his place in NY...but really didn't think that

would be prudent to a long term program, anyways I digress...we had

asked Dr. Carbone if he was familiar with anyone in Ohio who used a

VB approach and he referred us to Gwen Dwiggins from Columbus. We

have been with her ever since and she has been truly an asset to our

child. Our program has been successful, but I would really call it

more of a lifestyle...the program doesn't end when the consultant or

the tutors are gone...it is a constant process and clear consistent

demands are key from every party involved with the child...Mom, Dad,

sibs, grandparents, tutors..everyone. There are no breaks, and you

truly have to step back away from a parenting role and look at

things much more long term. You end up sacrificing a lot...but then

again don't you anyways with autism.

Kowalski <lyndhurstmom3@...> wrote:

>

> Thank you. Did you go through an agency in the Cleveland area for

your home program?

>

> pcrawfo1 <PCrawfo1@...> wrote: Board Certified Behavior

Analyst.

>

> It is a rather strict certification process to make sure the

person is

> adequately educated/experienced to provide services...Ohio doesn't

> recognize it as much, however, it does at least differentiate from

> anyone else out there who likes to claim they are a " consultlant " .

> Currently in Ohio there really aren't any " legal " recourses

against

> anyone who puts themselves out to be an ABA consultant..so your

> neighbor who has never worked with a kid, could print up some

business

> cards and say he is a consultant....being Board Certified at least

> puts regulations, qualifications in place and maintains a certain

> level of competency and professionalism.

> "

>

[Guest guest]

If you don't mind my asking when was this that you viewed the programs in the Cleveland area. On Sat, Feb 23, 2008 at 9:13 PM, pcrawfo1 <PCrawfo1@...> wrote:

I reviewed the programs in the Cleveland area when we started at the

time and was unimpressed (Monarch was just beginning home

programs)....I was recommended to Columbus Childrens (which was our

first consultant)

[Guest guest]

4-5 year ago....I was only interested in home programs at the time.

Their scheduling was...diagnosis one month, next month parents

meeting, next month tutors meeting, next month we will evaluate and

write a program, next month we will have a team meeting to implement

the program....I really wasn't interested in waiting 5 months to start

a program because of scheduling. I would have lost a lot of valuable

time waiting.

>

> > I reviewed the programs in the Cleveland area when we started at

the

> > time and was unimpressed (Monarch was just beginning home

> > programs)....I was recommended to Columbus Childrens (which was our

> > first consultant)

> >

>

[Guest guest]

I found the same long drawn out scheduling 5 years ago! I ended up

telling them that we would be starting our home ABA program on such

and such a day - with or without them! They seemed to kick into

high gear after that! I hope they have streamlined the process

since then!!

> >

> > > I reviewed the programs in the Cleveland area when we

started at

> the

> > > time and was unimpressed (Monarch was just beginning home

> > > programs)....I was recommended to Columbus Childrens (which

was our

> > > first consultant)

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Since I am the one that had asked about the Cleveland clinic program, I am going to say this, responses have gotten off subject, I had asked if anyone had a child in the program and some general questions about it, including funding. At this point my questions was answered. Also I had said daughters placement had done a great job with her, they got her two years ago at the age of nine years old, she was more than a handful, very aggressive even with meds. Where we lived in rual MS she wasnt even in school, no theraphys, etc. If I had not moved she would be in permenat residential by now. Thank for everyones in put. C M <picklespaw@...> wrote: I found the same long drawn out scheduling 5 years ago! I ended up telling them that we would be starting our home ABA program on such and such a day - with or without them! They seemed to kick into high gear after that! I hope they have streamlined the process since then!!> > > > > I reviewed the programs in the Cleveland area when we started at > the> > > time and was unimpressed (Monarch was just beginning home> > > programs)....I was recommended to Columbus Childrens (which was our> > > first consultant)> > >> >>

Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

[Guest guest]

I apologize if you feel your thread was hijacked. That was not my

intent.

> > >

> > > > I reviewed the programs in the Cleveland area when we

> started at

> > the

> > > > time and was unimpressed (Monarch was just beginning home

> > > > programs)....I was recommended to Columbus Childrens (which

> was our

> > > > first consultant)

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Never miss a thing. Make your homepage.

>