Guest guest Posted February 26, 1999 Report Share Posted February 26, 1999 Hello, This morning I was listening to WTAG radio. There was a short thing in vaccines. Have you heard that they are trying to get one for Hep A and earaches. Earaches!! Interesting... I didn't know if anyone else has heard of this. Take Care! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 1999 Report Share Posted February 26, 1999 What next!! Perhaps many children wouldn't have earaches if their tiny, fragile immune system wasn't attacked in the first place by vaccines at birth. Thanks for the info. kathy ---------- > From: <karen@...> > Vaccinationsonelist > Subject: Re: (no subject) > Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 8:11 AM > > From: <karen@...> > > Hello, > This morning I was listening to WTAG radio. There was a short thing in > vaccines. Have you heard that they are trying to get one for Hep A and > earaches. Earaches!! Interesting... I didn't know if anyone else has heard > of this. > Take Care! > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Ta Da! Come see our new web site! > > Onelist: A free email community service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 26, 1999 Report Share Posted February 26, 1999 The Hep A vaccine has been around for awhile now but not used widely until now. They are trying to mandate Hep A for all school children across the country. I know Washington State is fighting the Hep A as we speak. The " ear infection " vaccine may be released as soon as the fall. I have some info on it somewhere and will forward it to the group next week. Off for the weekend. Have a great weekend everyone!! List Owner Re: (no subject) From: <karen@...> Hello, This morning I was listening to WTAG radio. There was a short thing in vaccines. Have you heard that they are trying to get one for Hep A and earaches. Earaches!! Interesting... I didn't know if anyone else has heard of this. Take Care! ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Ta Da! Come see our new web site! Onelist: A free email community service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 28, 1999 Report Share Posted February 28, 1999 Yes! I've heard about that! They did a big news article on it here in Utah about how there soon will be a vaccination for ear infections. That is just wonderful, don't you think? I mean, how are they going to prove ear infections life threatening? CP used to be OK to get, now hundreds die a year, and all must be protected. What are they going to use for ear infections? Shalia >From bounce-vaccinations--1058-rands68=hotmail.comonelist Fri Feb 26 08:20:13 1999 >Received: (qmail 1845 invoked by alias); 26 Feb 1999 16:11:59 -0000 >Received: (qmail 1722 invoked from network); 26 Feb 1999 16:11:53 -0000 >Received: from unknown (HELO matthewmollica.com) (208.234.0.5) by pop.onelist.com with SMTP; 26 Feb 1999 16:11:53 -0000 >Received: from mollica.com (mollica.ne.mediaone.net [24.128.136.23]) by matthewmollica.com (8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA12268 for <Vaccinationsonelist>; Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:12:33 -0500 >Message-ID: <36D6C7C8.141EFF7D@...> >Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 11:11:52 -0500 >From: <karen@...> >X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) >X-Accept-Language: en >Vaccinationsonelist >References: <410-36D65090-1434@...> >Mailing-List: list Vaccinationsonelist; contact Vaccinations-owneronelist >Delivered-mailing list Vaccinationsonelist >Precedence: bulk >List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:Vaccinations-unsubscribeONElist> >Reply-to: Vaccinationsonelist >Mime-Version: 1.0 >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >Subject: Re: (no subject) > >From: <karen@...> > >Hello, >This morning I was listening to WTAG radio. There was a short thing in >vaccines. Have you heard that they are trying to get one for Hep A and >earaches. Earaches!! Interesting... I didn't know if anyone else has heard >of this. >Take Care! > > > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Ta Da! Come see our new web site! > >Onelist: A free email community service > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 Hello, Can anyone help me in finding info on homeopathy and " alternative " medicine. I am interested in looking into this. I have decided not to vaccinate my little one. My doctor would like me to. I don't really see the point of taking in every couple months to be weighed and measured, but my husband thinks maybe we should take him in just in case he gets something from not being vaccinated, but we would know if he was sick or had an earache I would think.... Any ideas. You can email me privately. Sherri O'Lonergan wrote: > Hi . > > Yes, there is an " alternative " homeopathic approach, > although if you talk to most naturopathic dr's they do > not call it an " alternative " ... protecting their own > butts. From what I understand they are effective, natural > and without any adverse side effects. > > I am using them with my son (7 mo) and to date he has > had no colds, flu, ear infections, etc. > > Hope this helps! > > Sherri > > > > > Troy Lucas wrote: > >> Does anyone know about alternative homeopathic vaccinations? I >> don't know if I am wording it correctly, but basically they are >> homeopathic remedies that give the immunity to the diseases in the >> same fashion that a vaccination would. Also, sorrya bout the 2 times >> I forwarded messags on the digest mode and everyone got the entire >> digest along with it. Embarrassing! I had no idea it would do >> that. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 Hi . I have pursued finding a naturopathic doctor and was very happy with the results. He gave me several homeopathic 'alternatives' (although he did not want to refer to them as an alternative to vaccines - to cover his own butt) but here they are: Pertussinum 200K Diptherinum 200K Influenzinum 200K Tetanotoxinum 200K Rubeolinum 200K Tuberculinum 200K Morbillinum 200K Variolunum 200K Parotidinum 200K Lathyrus 200K They are to be administered during a non-illness time (colds, etc.) and are given twice a day (15 min. before/ after meals) for three consequetive days followed by 10 days of no administration. They are, from my understanding, preventative in nature and are not reserved for the onset of an illness and are to be repeated each year until the child is 4 and then repeated at age 6, 9 and 12 (not exactly sure of ages as I'm not looking at my information). The Dr. we used was Dr. and I'm sure if you can't find anyone else to help that he'd be happy to talk to you about administering the nosodes to you. His number is 719-635-4776. Hope this helps!! Sherri wrote: > Hello, > Can anyone help me in finding info on homeopathy and " alternative " > medicine. I am interested in looking into this. I have decided not to > vaccinate my little one. My doctor would like me to. I don't really > see the point of taking in every couple months to be weighed and > measured, but my husband thinks maybe we should take him in just in > case he gets something from not being vaccinated, but we would know if > he was sick or had an earache I would think.... Any ideas. You can > email me privately. > > > Sherri O'Lonergan wrote: > >> Hi . >> >> Yes, there is an " alternative " homeopathic approach, >> although if you talk to most naturopathic dr's they do >> not call it an " alternative " ... protecting their own >> butts. From what I understand they are effective, natural >> and without any adverse side effects. >> >> I am using them with my son (7 mo) and to date he has >> had no colds, flu, ear infections, etc. >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> Sherri >> >> >> >> >> Troy Lucas wrote: >> >> > Does anyone know about alternative homeopathic vaccinations? I >> > don't know if I am wording it correctly, but basically they are >> > homeopathic remedies that give the immunity to the diseases in the >> > same fashion that a vaccination would. Also, sorrya bout the 2 >> > times I forwarded messags on the digest mode and everyone got the >> > entire digest along with it. Embarrassing! I had no idea it would >> > do that. >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 karen, the best way is probably to find a good naturopath or homeopath. they are much more open on the vaccination issue and not subjected to the greed of the pharmaceuticals! it also helps to find out yourself about alternative medicine. there are plenty of books on homeopathy specifically written for the layman which are available at any bigger bookstore. hope this helps. love and light claudia --- <karen@...> wrote: > > Hello, > Can anyone help me in finding info on homeopathy and " alternative " > medicine. I am interested in looking into this. I have decided not to > vaccinate my little one. My doctor would like me to. I don't really see > the point of taking in every couple months to be weighed and > measured, but my husband thinks maybe we should take him in just in case > he gets something from not being vaccinated, but we would know if he was > sick or had an earache I would think.... Any ideas. You can email me > privately. > > > Sherri O'Lonergan wrote: > > > Hi . > > > > Yes, there is an " alternative " homeopathic approach, > > although if you talk to most naturopathic dr's they do > > not call it an " alternative " ... protecting their own > > butts. From what I understand they are effective, natural > > and without any adverse side effects. > > > > I am using them with my son (7 mo) and to date he has > > had no colds, flu, ear infections, etc. > > > > Hope this helps! > > > > Sherri > > > > > > > > > > Troy Lucas wrote: > > > >> Does anyone know about alternative homeopathic vaccinations? I > >> don't know if I am wording it correctly, but basically they are > >> homeopathic remedies that give the immunity to the diseases in the > >> same fashion that a vaccination would. Also, sorrya bout the 2 times > >> I forwarded messags on the digest mode and everyone got the entire > >> digest along with it. Embarrassing! I had no idea it would do > >> that. > > > <HR> <!doctype html public " -//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en " > <html> <body bgcolor= " #FFFFFF " > Hello, <br>Can anyone help me in finding info on homeopathy and " alternative " medicine. I am interested in looking into this. I have decided not to vaccinate my little one. My doctor would like me to. I don't really see the point of taking in every couple months to be weighed and measured, but my husband thinks maybe we should take him in just in case he gets something from not being vaccinated, but we would know if he was sick or had an earache I would think.... Any ideas. You can email me privately. <br> <p>Sherri O'Lonergan wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE>Hi . <p>Yes, there is an " alternative " homeopathic approach, <br>although if you talk to most naturopathic dr's they do <br>not call it an " alternative " ... protecting their own <br>butts. From what I understand they are effective, natural <br>and without any adverse side effects. <p>I am using them with my son (7 mo) and to date he has <br>had no colds, flu, ear infections, etc. <p>Hope this helps! <p>Sherri <br> <br> <br> <p>Troy Lucas wrote: <blockquote TYPE=CITE> <font color= " #000000 " ><font size=-1>Does anyone know about alternative homeopathic vaccinations? I don't know if I am wording it correctly, but basically they are homeopathic remedies that give the immunity to the diseases in the same fashion that a vaccination would.</font></font> <font color= " #000000 " ><font size=-1>Also, sorrya bout the 2 times I forwarded messags on the digest mode and everyone got the entire digest along with it. Embarrassing! I had no idea it would do that.</font></font> <font color= " #000000 " ><font size=-1></font></font></blockquote> </blockquote> </body> </html> == http://homepages.infoseek.com/~lovingdolphin1/geninfo.html silly verses http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/saraavidolphin/index.html go holistic! http://www.freeyellow.com/members6/saraavidolphin/page1.html channelings about atlantis and today icq 8082968 subscribe to NATURAL_PARENT, /subscribe.cgi/natural_parent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 4, 1999 Report Share Posted March 4, 1999 what is the difference between these vaccines and the ones you recieve normally? Thanks! Sherri O'Lonergan wrote: > Hi . > > I have pursued finding a naturopathic doctor and > was very happy with the results. He gave me several > homeopathic 'alternatives' (although he did not want > to refer to them as an alternative to vaccines - to cover > his own butt) but here they are: > > Pertussinum 200K Diptherinum 200K > Influenzinum 200K Tetanotoxinum 200K > Rubeolinum 200K Tuberculinum 200K > Morbillinum 200K Variolunum 200K > Parotidinum 200K Lathyrus 200K > > They are to be administered during a non-illness time > (colds, etc.) and are given twice a day (15 min. before/ > after meals) for three consequetive days followed by > 10 days of no administration. They are, from my > understanding, preventative in nature and are not reserved > for the onset of an illness and are to be repeated each > year until the child is 4 and then repeated at age 6, 9 and > 12 (not exactly sure of ages as I'm not looking at my information). > The Dr. we used was Dr. and I'm sure if > you can't find anyone else to help that he'd be happy to > talk to you about administering the nosodes to you. His > number is 719-635-4776. > > Hope this helps!! > > Sherri > > > > > > wrote: > >> Hello, >> Can anyone help me in finding info on homeopathy and " alternative " >> medicine. I am interested in looking into this. I have decided not >> to vaccinate my little one. My doctor would like me to. I don't >> really see the point of taking in every couple months to be >> weighed and measured, but my husband thinks maybe we should take him >> in just in case he gets something from not being vaccinated, but we >> would know if he was sick or had an earache I would think.... Any >> ideas. You can email me privately. >> >> >> Sherri O'Lonergan wrote: >> >> > Hi . >> > >> > Yes, there is an " alternative " homeopathic approach, >> > although if you talk to most naturopathic dr's they do >> > not call it an " alternative " ... protecting their own >> > butts. From what I understand they are effective, natural >> > and without any adverse side effects. >> > >> > I am using them with my son (7 mo) and to date he has >> > had no colds, flu, ear infections, etc. >> > >> > Hope this helps! >> > >> > Sherri >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Troy Lucas wrote: >> > >> >> Does anyone know about alternative homeopathic vaccinations? I >> >> don't know if I am wording it correctly, but basically they are >> >> homeopathic remedies that give the immunity to the diseases in >> >> the same fashion that a vaccination would. Also, sorrya bout the >> >> 2 times I forwarded messags on the digest mode and everyone got >> >> the entire digest along with it. Embarrassing! I had no idea it >> >> would do that. >> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted March 5, 1999 Report Share Posted March 5, 1999 ... you wouldn't happen to be from Colorado Springs would you? Just curious... " Mollica " is very familiar to me! Anyway, the difference is that these homeopathic nosodes are in no way " vaccines " - they are derived homeopathically. If you're not sure what that means you can do some more research if my explanation isn't enough. First, homeopathy is a science that has been around 100+ years and its philosophy is that you take a substance and dilute it and dilute it until there is not even one molecule of the original substance left. It is believed that " less is more " and that is the major difference between homeopathic and allopathic (traditional dr's approach). When they inject our children with their vaccines they are injecting the actual virus directly into the bloodstream. Not only that but it is injected with other foreign substances like formaldehyde (used to deactivate the live virus), mercury and foreign (monkey, pig, etc.) animal tissue (where they culture the virus and then remove it). These injections miss the very first line of our immune system defense - our mucos membranes, the lymph system and our intensinal system. They are injected directly into our bloodstream and it is up to our little baby's immune systems to be strong enough to fight them off... sometimes it works - other times the baby develops severe reactions such as seizures, brain damage or worse they just die. I hope this offers more insight. I'm in no way an expert but I'm sure talking to Dr. would be even more helpful. Sherri wrote: > what is the difference between these vaccines and the ones you > recieve normally? > Thanks! > > Sherri O'Lonergan wrote: > >> Hi . >> >> I have pursued finding a naturopathic doctor and >> was very happy with the results. He gave me several >> homeopathic 'alternatives' (although he did not want >> to refer to them as an alternative to vaccines - to cover >> his own butt) but here they are: >> >> Pertussinum 200K Diptherinum 200K >> Influenzinum 200K Tetanotoxinum 200K >> Rubeolinum 200K Tuberculinum 200K >> Morbillinum 200K Variolunum 200K >> Parotidinum 200K Lathyrus 200K >> >> They are to be administered during a non-illness time >> (colds, etc.) and are given twice a day (15 min. before/ >> after meals) for three consequetive days followed by >> 10 days of no administration. They are, from my >> understanding, preventative in nature and are not reserved >> for the onset of an illness and are to be repeated each >> year until the child is 4 and then repeated at age 6, 9 and >> 12 (not exactly sure of ages as I'm not looking at my information). >> The Dr. we used was Dr. and I'm sure if >> you can't find anyone else to help that he'd be happy to >> talk to you about administering the nosodes to you. His >> number is 719-635-4776. >> >> Hope this helps!! >> >> Sherri >> >> >> >> >> >> wrote: >> >> > Hello, >> > Can anyone help me in finding info on homeopathy and " alternative " >> > medicine. I am interested in looking into this. I have decided not >> > to vaccinate my little one. My doctor would like me to. I don't >> > really see the point of taking in every couple months to be >> > weighed and measured, but my husband thinks maybe we should take >> > him in just in case he gets something from not being vaccinated, >> > but we would know if he was sick or had an earache I would >> > think.... Any ideas. You can email me privately. >> > >> > >> > Sherri O'Lonergan wrote: >> > >> >> Hi . >> >> >> >> Yes, there is an " alternative " homeopathic approach, >> >> although if you talk to most naturopathic dr's they do >> >> not call it an " alternative " ... protecting their own >> >> butts. From what I understand they are effective, natural >> >> and without any adverse side effects. >> >> >> >> I am using them with my son (7 mo) and to date he has >> >> had no colds, flu, ear infections, etc. >> >> >> >> Hope this helps! >> >> >> >> Sherri >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Troy Lucas wrote: >> >> >> >> > Does anyone know about alternative homeopathic vaccinations? >> >> > I don't know if I am wording it correctly, but basically they >> >> > are homeopathic remedies that give the immunity to the diseases >> >> > in the same fashion that a vaccination would. Also, sorrya bout >> >> > the 2 times I forwarded messags on the digest mode and everyone >> >> > got the entire digest along with it. Embarrassing! I had no >> >> > idea it would do that. >> >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 5, 1999 Report Share Posted April 5, 1999 HI ya Cardiotocograph that is what the monitor is called. And dopplers are ultrasound too , some women don't know that. YOUr place of work sounds like a mad house. ---------- > From: Marcy Koltun-Crilley <marcy@...> > Vaccine list <Vaccinationsonelist> > Subject: (no subject) > Date: Monday, 5 April 1999 20:10 > > From: Marcy Koltun-Crilley <marcy@...> > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:53:05 +1200 > From: " jenick " <jenick@...> > Subject: Re: Birth plan, > > Kia ora: Great to hear your expereinces. One question about > auscultation...do you have dopplers or only the CTG. Why wouldnt the > women > LET you listen to bubs heart? > > Take care I am feeding my babe and can' really type with one hand. > > see ya > > ---------- > Not really sure what you are asking? > CTG ? were I work we have one or two handheld dopplers ( usually used > for fetus under 23 weeks) and otherwise we have fetal monitors. > > " Why wouldnt the women LET you listen to bubs heart? " > The ones that do not usually seem to have a preconceived notion that we > will > say something is wrong , or that ultra sound is harmful, or mostly it > bothers them and they do not want to hold still and feel it is not > needed and they have a normal situation. > These are the answers I get. > However, it is rare that someone will not let us listen at all after > giving explanation. > More common is they say OK but then do not co-operate long enough to get > more then > a few seconds of listening. > > Marcy > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > If you like orange and blue, then you will love our new web site! > > Onelist: ing connections and information exchange Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 1999 Report Share Posted April 8, 1999 [This message contained attachments] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 1999 Report Share Posted April 8, 1999 Hi Theresa! I am looking for it too!! I tried to search their archives online, but got nowhere. I thought the year was '86?? Guess I'm way off, but anxioulsy awaiting responses to your post too!!! Sue Theresa wrote: > Hi everyone. Can anyone please tell me which month the article " The > Lethal Dangers of the Billion Dollar Vaccine Business " appeared in the > MONEY magazine during 1996? I phoned for a back issue, but they need > to know which month the article appeared in. Thanks!! Theresa - > mother to Cassandra 10mos. old and very healthy...breastfeeding and > never vaccinated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 8, 1999 Report Share Posted April 8, 1999 I have an e-mail version of this article. I will repost it to the list so all the new people can read it. Be warned...it is pretty long and will be in two e-mails. List Owner (no subject) Hi everyone. Can anyone please tell me which month the article " The Lethal Dangers of the Billion Dollar Vaccine Business " appeared in the MONEY magazine during 1996? I phoned for a back issue, but they need to know which month the article appeared in. Thanks!! Theresa - mother to Cassandra 10mos. old and very healthy...breastfeeding and never vaccinated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 9, 1999 Report Share Posted April 9, 1999 Hi Theresa- The article appeared in December 1996. It is about 10 pages if not longer. It has alot about the political background. There was also another article in New Yorker magazine either in November orDecember 1996. I have not yet gotten to find or read this article...this is on the list to do. Theresa wrote: > Hi everyone. Can anyone please tell me which month the article " The > Lethal Dangers of the Billion Dollar Vaccine Business " appeared in the > MONEY magazine during 1996? I phoned for a back issue, but they need > to know which month the article appeared in. Thanks!! Theresa - > mother to Cassandra 10mos. old and very healthy...breastfeeding and > never vaccinated ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 10, 1999 Report Share Posted April 10, 1999 Thank you so much. I just want to say that I think this list is GREAT. I have learned SO much, and everyone is so incredibly helpful. With every day that passes that I turn on my computer and read more about what everyone is saying about vaccines, the websites, and all the info available I am that much more happy that I have decided absolutely positively NO VACCINES for my children. Thank you everyone, for your letters and replies have saved lives. Re: (no subject) >From: Reiss <lisa@...> > >Hi Theresa- >The article appeared in December 1996. It is about 10 pages if not >longer. It has alot about the political background. There was also >another article in New Yorker magazine either in November orDecember >1996. I have not yet gotten to find or read this article...this is on >the list to do. > > >Theresa wrote: > >> Hi everyone. Can anyone please tell me which month the article " The >> Lethal Dangers of the Billion Dollar Vaccine Business " appeared in the >> MONEY magazine during 1996? I phoned for a back issue, but they need >> to know which month the article appeared in. Thanks!! Theresa - >> mother to Cassandra 10mos. old and very healthy...breastfeeding and >> never vaccinated > >________________________________________________________ >NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? >Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at >http://www.netzero.net/download.html > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend. >http://www.ONElist.com >ONElist: The leading provider of free e-mail list services! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 1999 Report Share Posted May 18, 1999 Some comments on this, coming from a parent who has selectively vaccinated her 3 year old son, but at this point would be hard-pressed to allow any further shots. << The advice I aways give to nonvaccinating parents is that they have taken on a great responsibility to educate themselves in the signs, symptoms and consequences of the infections thier children are susceptable to. These are not " scare tactics " but rather a " wide-awake " approach to the realities of these infections. Oddly though, I find a " head in the sand " attitude very often, almost like " if we don't think about our child getting sick, it won't happen " . I find this odd, since these same parents are so very concerned about damage that might be caused by vaccines; yet are unwilling to educate themselves on the very real dangers of the infections.>><< I am very concerned that people who are not vaccinating are somehow not getting all the information they need on how to detect these illnesses while in the early and still manageable stages.>> I disagree with this. From personal experience and in speaking with friends who have questioned vaccinations, I find that all of us have immersed ourselves in as much information as we can find in order to make these very difficult decisions. My husband and I cried over some of these decisions - it is a nearly impossible position to be put in, with experts on either side of the issue. I don't think that any parent takes this responsibility lightly for obvious reasons, and a non-vaccinating (or questioning) parent is probably better informed about diseases and their dangers than a vaccinating parent. And at the root of any questioning of vaccinations is a simple formula - risk vs. benefit for both vaccine and disease. A vaccinating parent is, in my experience, more likely to be " going with the flow " of what their doctor is telling them to do and assuming that their child will not get the disease they've been immunized against - and therefore not informed about the actual disease/symptoms/danger. And, as is evident in studies done, vaccinations do not guarantee immunity, so vaccinating parents are probably less knowledgeable than non-vaccinating parents in terms of disease dangers. << Pertussis is a particularly tricky one-looks like any other sniffles for up to 2 weeks before the " whooping " sets in. Once the characteristic cough and respiratory difficulty sets in, antibiotics do no good. So an unimmunized child with a " cold " needs to be watched much more carefully. Pertussis is generally passed from an adult to a child so daycare is not the main source. Pertussis looks like a typical cold in the adult. Pertussis is very serious in children under a year usually requiring hospitalization up to 2 weeks to keep the lungs functioning with ventilators, nebulizers, steroids, etc..>> A serious disease for infants. It is unfortunate that such an ugly disease is one of the more horrible vaccines. I can't dispute anything she says here. I have heard of instances where whooping cough has been passed within a family, and the vaccinated child seemed to have a worse case compared to the non-vaccinated child. I don't know if that is common. But I can add that vaccine efficacy is highly questionable (as in all vaccines) and fatalities in children over 12 months are rare. Not very comforting when you are faced with vaccinating your infant, but the repercussions of the vaccine are not too comforting either. << Tetanus has no cure- it is a long painful death, contracted as easily as from a prick with a rose thorn. If one is unimmunized for tetanus and gets a cut, it takes 4 shots to get the immunity in place and these need to be started in the first 48 hours.>> First of all, from " The Vaccine Guide " you have 72 hours, not 48 hours. And you have two choices: if you have had at least 2 doses of tetanus vaccine at any time in your life, you will receive a booster injection (rapid and adequate to prevent tetanus when given within 72 hours of injury); or if you have had less than 2 previous tetanus vaccines, you will be given an injection of Tetanus Immune Globulin, Human (TIG) for a serious wound. This introduces antibodies directly into the body to fight tetanus bacteria. This is passive immunity - you won't develop your own antibodies. Again, sufficient to prevent tetanus if within 72 hours. While tetanus, if contracted, is a really ugly disease and is potentially fatal - it is POTENTIALLY fatal, not fatal without a cure. But again, it is ugly and you do not want to get it. It is one of the more " milder " vaccines in terms of reactions and needs to be considered depending upon your environment. But based on this book, incidence of tetanus is approximately 50 cases per year for the past 10 years, less than 10 of these cases are under 30 years old and these cases are " rarely fatal. " << Anyway, there's alot of reasons why these illnesse were chosen for vaccines and others not, among which they are often fatal or have serious consequences, like polio (which still occurs in Mexico and can be carried by anyone coming in from there, healthy or not).>> Like chicken pox (primarily a vaccine to avoid parents missing work) or the rubella vaccine (to protect women who have not been vaccinated)? Both of these are vaccines (although varicella is still optional) for relatively mild diseases. <<A good source for info on these diseases is someone who has worked with them in person. Any practitioner who hasn't seen or experinced these things has no reason to take them seriously and may not educate his patients accurately/thoroughly. >>>> >> Quite the opposite is true, I believe. I have gone into my pediatrician's office and been given pamphlets detailing all the reasons to vaccinate, and minimizing the side effects of the vaccine. While I believe this woman is extremely caring and concerned for unvaccinated children, I think she is misguided in many areas. I agree that the dangers of diseases and their symptoms should be understood, but by ALL parents, as vaccines are not guaranteed for immunity. Cathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 1999 Report Share Posted May 18, 1999 Hello, I felt the need to comment on the below article. I did vaccinate my children and I am now rethinking that. I did not realize I had a choice! I thought I HAD to do it, this is what my doctor said when I asked him if it was necessary. Anyway, the below comments about being uneducated MAY apply to some who vaccinate but not all. I know the symptoms of each illness, even though my children were vaccinated against it. I had that 'what if' in the back of my head; what if the vaccines don't work? I need to be prepared and KNOW what the symptoms are, just in case. Another thing on the Tetanus topic, my mother had Tetanus as a child. She stepped on a rusty nail that went through the sole of her shoe into her foot. She had the typical 'lock jaw' and was hospitalized, but (obviously!) she did NOT die. Most of these 'fatal' illnesses are not fatal if you know what the symptoms are and they are caught immediately. Any parent, regardless of whether or not you vaccinate, should know the symptons of ALL possible diseases your child could catch. Just my thoughts... P. From: Mom2jriver@... Reply-Vaccinationsonelist Vaccinationsonelist Subject: (no subject) Date: Tue, 18 May 1999 14:53:00 EDT From: Mom2jriver@... A friend sent me this from another list that she is on. Does anyone feel like giving their thoughts on it. I would like to give my friend some information from the other side of the issue. <<<The advice I aways give to nonvaccinating parents is that they have taken on a great responsibility to educate themselves in the signs, symptoms and consequences of the infections thier children are susceptable to. These are not " scare tactics " but rather a " wide-awake " approach to the realities of these infections. Oddly though, I find a " head in the sand " attitude very often, almost like " if we don't think about our child getting sick, it won't happen " . I find this odd, since these same parents are so very concerned about damage that might be caused by vaccines; yet are unwilling to educate themselves on the very real dangers of the infections. Pertussis is a particularly tricky one-looks like any other sniffles for up to 2 weeks before the " whooping " sets in. Once the characteristic cough and respiratory difficulty sets in, antibiotics do no good. So an unimmunized child with a " cold " needs to be watched much more carefully. Pertussis is generally passed from an adult to a child so daycare is not the main source. Pertussis looks like a typical cold in the adult. Pertussis is very serious in children under a year usually requiring hospitalization up to 2 weeks to keep the lungs functioning with ventilators, nebulizers, steroids, etc.. I am very concerned that people who are not vaccinating are somehow not getting all the information they need on how to detect these illnesses while in the early and still manageable stages. Tetanus has no cure- it is a long painful death, contracted as easily as from a prick with a rose thorn. If one is unimmunized for tetanus and gets a cut, it takes 4 shots to get the immunity in place and these need to be started in the first 48 hours. Anyway, there's alot of reasons why these illnesse were chosen for vaccines and others not, among which they are often fatal or have serious consequences, like polio (which still occurs in Mexico and can be carried by anyone coming in from there, healthy or not). A good source for info on these diseases is someone who has worked with them in person. Any practitioner who hasn't seen or experinced these things has no reason to take them seriously and may not educate his patients accurately/thoroughly. Because I have worked with people who have experienced these illnesses and seen the lifelong effects and lengthy hospitalizations on tiny children, I have a sense for the horror of both parents and children when they are affected by these illnesses. Please... at least educate yourselves on these illnesses.>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ONElist: where the world talks! Join a new list today. _______________________________________________________________ Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 18, 1999 Report Share Posted May 18, 1999 I think your friend is mostly right. Especially in children under 1, watch for whooping cough. If anyone gets cuts or grazes, make sure they are washed out properly with soap, then disinfectant or whatever cleaning regimen you go for. If the cut has not bled, and occured around animal manures, then in might be wise to consider using hydrogen peroxide etc. We should be aware of these things whether our children are vaccinated or not. We should learn about the symptoms of things like Diptheria (grey lining in throat etc.), wash our hands carefully daily especially before meals and after changing nappies (for polio) etc. etc. Point is, vaccinated children do still get these diseases, so parents of vaccinated children should certainly be aware of them also. Diseases in vaccinated children may be harder to see as often they get the disease (like whooping cough or measles) but normal symptoms do not appear. They have 'atypical' symptoms. Because vaccines do strange things to the immune system, a vaccinated child's immune system will react differently to a disease than a non-vaccinated sometimes, displaying symptoms of illness that are harder to diagnose or find the cause for. Of course, a vaccinated child may also have to deal with other problems of general health, which a parent should be aware of. But for the most part, this ladies advice is good. Just because you do vaccinate or don't vaccinate, you should be aware of these things. I would think the majority of kids go through childhood with no major problems, but it is prudent to be aware. Sebastiana At 02:53 PM 5/18/99 EDT, you wrote: >From: Mom2jriver@... > >A friend sent me this from another list that she is on. Does anyone feel >like giving their thoughts on it. I would like to give my friend some >information from the other side of the issue. > > ><<<The advice I aways give to nonvaccinating parents is that they have >taken on a great responsibility to educate themselves in the signs, >symptoms and consequences of the infections thier children are >susceptable to. These are not " scare tactics " but rather a " wide-awake " >approach to the realities of these infections. Oddly though, I find a > " head in the sand " attitude very often, almost like " if we don't think >about our child getting sick, it won't happen " . I find this odd, since >these same parents are so very concerned about damage that might be >caused by vaccines; yet are unwilling to educate themselves on the very >real dangers of the infections. Pertussis is a particularly tricky >one-looks like any other sniffles for up to 2 weeks before the > " whooping " sets in. Once the characteristic cough and respiratory >difficulty sets in, antibiotics do no good. So an unimmunized child with >a " cold " needs to be watched much more carefully. Pertussis is generally >passed from an adult to a child so daycare is not the main source. >Pertussis looks like a typical cold in the adult. Pertussis is very >serious in children under a year usually requiring hospitalization up to >2 weeks to keep the lungs functioning with ventilators, nebulizers, >steroids, etc.. >I am very concerned that people who are not vaccinating are somehow not >getting all the information they need on how to detect these illnesses >while in the early and still manageable stages. Tetanus has no cure- it >is a long painful death, contracted as easily as from a prick with a >rose thorn. If one is unimmunized for tetanus and gets a cut, it takes 4 >shots to get the immunity in place and these need to be started in the >first 48 hours. Anyway, there's alot of reasons why these illnesse were >chosen for vaccines and others not, among which they are often fatal or >have serious consequences, like polio (which still occurs in Mexico and >can be carried by anyone coming in from there, healthy or not). A good >source for info on these diseases is someone who has worked with them in >person. Any practitioner who hasn't seen or experinced these things has >no reason to take them seriously and may not educate his patients >accurately/thoroughly. >Because I have worked with people who have experienced these illnesses >and seen the lifelong effects and lengthy hospitalizations on tiny >children, I have a sense for the horror of both parents and children >when they are affected by these illnesses. Please... at least educate >yourselves on these illnesses.>>>> > >------------------------------------------------------------------------ >ONElist: where the world talks! > >Join a new list today. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 19, 1999 Report Share Posted May 19, 1999 Tetanus from a rose thorn??!! I think NOT>>>Educate, I believe we have, and it's the FALSE information out there that makes me nuts!! I honestly believe that people " ASSUME " that people " like us " have not done our research, not to mention much soul-searching on wether or not we should immunize; to even insinuate that this decision is made casually is maddening!! Sorry for ranting, but I just get so aggrivated with coments like that. By the mere fact that we are all on this list DAILY looking for answers and asking questions is enough for me. And, there has not been a cold with a cough that my children have gotten that I HAVEN " T been careful to check for signs of pertussis. Yes, I fear for them getting a disease that may be prevented by an immunization, but have an even greater fear of the long term unknown effects of the shots. People from Mexico can bring in Polio?? Then, why isn't it running rampant in our society?? And why are the only cases of polio in the U.S. from the SHOT??!! Trust me, we have done our homework and we keep learning that the decisions we have made for our children at this time are the right ones. And, might I add, not EVER made lightly. Okay, I have said my piece. Blessings everyone. Nadine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 1999 Report Share Posted May 27, 1999 Hi, Joan. There are pediatricians out there that treat you with respect, even though you choose not to vaccinate, although they are admittedly a rare breed. At the very least, they will be cordial while reminding you why you should vaccinate. Keep looking! In the meantime, if memory serves me correctly, I think the one you need to look out for is the oral polio (they should not be giving it anymore, at least not for the first two doses, but I've personally been aware of it still happening). The injected polio is killed and should not present a problem as it enters the bloodstream. But the oral is live and enters the stomach/intestines and is eliminated in their poop. So it is possible to catch it from a recently vaccinated child if you are in the vicinity of their poopy diaper or (I would assume) if the child touched the poop then passed it on. They will even warn you before giving your child the shot if you have an immune-compromised person or an unvaccinated (polio) person living in the household. I don't remember the actual amount of time that a child is " contagious " in their shedding the live virus, I think it's at least a couple of weeks. I believe that this is the only vaccine that you can " catch " since it is live and oral, therefore shed in the stools. Cathi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 1999 Report Share Posted May 27, 1999 Hi Joan, I went through the same thing with doctors with my 2 yr old daughter since her birth and I'm still trying to locate someone in my area who will see her without pushing the issue of vaccinating. She's pretty healthy, happy and smart too. She's around other children constantly and doesn't get ill...so far so good! She was also exposed to chicken pox a year ago and didn't get it. I'm just hoping for the best whether she's vaccinated or not. Good luck to you and your little one. ---------- > From: Jefkarp@... > Vaccinationsonelist > Subject: (no subject) > Date: Thursday, May 27, 1999 11:58 PM > > From: Jefkarp@... > > Hello, > My husband and I are the parents of a very healthy, un-vaccinated 6 month old > daughter, who was born at home. We were lucky enough to have a friend > suggest that we investigate the vaccine issue before I ever gave > birth...otherwise, I wonder if we would have just followed the masses and > vaccinated because that's just what everyone else does. We've tried to > interview i.e. set up consultations with pediatricians to discuss our options > and etc. regarding vaccinations. The unprofessional manner in which most of > the nurses / secretaries fielded my initial questions was a real eye-opener. > It became SO obvious that those of us that question the efficacy of vaccines > are truly in the minority. It was intimated by more than one pediatrician's > office that we were POOR parents for even considering NOT vaccinating. All I > wanted to do was gather information and discuss the issue - - that didn't > seem too threatening...but I guess someone felt threatened. We had no luck. > At any rate. Our daughter is magnificent and very healthy...but we've not > taken her to a pediatrician...reason being that if they agreed to consult > with us, then, regardless of how we as parents felt about the issue of > vaccine safety, our daughter would leave their office that very day having > been " shot " ...no if's, and's or but's. It really puts parents in a tough > position...we want to do the right thing, but doctors make it so that it's > completely one-sided: their way or not at all. > > But that's not so much what I wanted to write about as was a question > concerning the safety of our daughther playing with vaccinated children. I've > read some on the issue, but I can't find sufficient information regarding the > precautions we, as parents, need to take regarding our un-vaccinated > children's interaction with the recently vaccinated. Does anyone have some > diffinitive info. that they could share. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks. > Joan Karp > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Campaign 2000 is here! > > Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage. ________________________________________________________ NetZero - We believe in a FREE Internet. Shouldn't you? Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 1999 Report Share Posted May 27, 1999 Cathi - Thanks for the encouragement! We've just moved to a new area, so the search for a pediatrician continues...but hopefully they'll be a bit more open-minded around here. It's just discouraging sometimes, you know? Thanks to for the info. re: transmission. That's pretty much what I figured, but I wanted to be sure. You don't know how excited I am to be on this list! Thanks again! Joan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 1999 Report Share Posted May 27, 1999 , this is SO true - handwashing. There was recently a backlash on all the antibiotic soaps, lotions, etc. - apparently it was helping create an environment where certain germs were becoming resistant (similar to what we've done by overuse of antibiotics). Everyone was coming out in the medical industry saying " simply wash your hands with warm water and soap - OFTEN " . If you think of all the things we touch throughout the day (money, keys, doorknobs, pens from strangers to sign our credit purchases).....Yuck. And then I bite my nails! Quadruple Yuck. But simple soap and water is fine - you don't need the added stuff. A little neurotic hygiene thing that I do - when I absolutely have to use a public restroom, I go to wash my hands at the sink, leave the water running when I'm done, get a towel, wipe my hands, then using the towel I will turn the water off and open the door with it - dump the towel in a garbage can outside somewhere. I read somewhere that it helps with kids to teach them to sing the " Happy Birthday to you " song while they wash their hands - it's the perfect amount of time for soapy hands before rinsing. I find myself singing it in my head while I'm handwashing! Cathi In a message dated 5/27/99 10:11:42 PM Eastern Daylight Time, lisa@... writes: << As far as your concern regarding precautions with vaccinated children....I am VERY particular with hygiene. Most diseases BEGIN with lack of proper hygiene. This does not mean I freak out but we are particular. For example, if we go out when we come home we all wash our hands, my husband washes his hands when he comes home from work so as not to pass the germs, >> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 1999 Report Share Posted May 27, 1999 In a message dated 5/27/1999 9:11:41 PM Central Daylight Time, lisa@... writes: << Learn about homeopathay...it is quite amazing how successful homeopathy is.. >> You know - we tried homeopathy for a couple of years with little or varied success. Our highest hope for it was in treating our then infant son (7 months) for his severe eczema. We were living in Germany at the time - the birthplace of homeopathy. We went to 2 very prominent Homeopathists in our area over the course of our stay there and saw no change in his condition - it was terribly disappointing. We bought one of the kits for our own personal home use for minor symptoms such as colds, aches and such as well as two books on homeopathy - one specifically geared towards treating children. Again - saw little or no difference. I have personally seen better results with the use of traditional herbology. I am not saying that homeopathy does not work - but wanted to pass on my own experience in case others trying it came across the same problems. Bright Blessings Jana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted May 27, 1999 Report Share Posted May 27, 1999 Joan- I have been were you are...I would encourage if you can't find a pediatrician to work with you (it took us almost 9 months after being harassed by our pediatrician for almost 4 months) then go Alt. Locate a chiropractor, homeopathic dr. or naturopathic. This way you atleast have someone to consult should an emergency arise. Amazingly, my homeopathic recommended his pediatrician who understands parents right to not vaccinate...This way should an emergency arise we have a dr. affiliated with a hospital who understands our position and/or should she need antibiotics then the dr. has her history. As far as your concern regarding precautions with vaccinated children....I am VERY particular with hygiene. Most diseases BEGIN with lack of proper hygiene. This does not mean I freak out but we are particular. For example, if we go out when we come home we all wash our hands, my husband washes his hands when he comes home from work so as not to pass the germs, we do alot with boosting her immunity (ie. when traveling I will increase her Vit. C intake and Echinacea..liquid children's non-alcoholic), we discourage her from putting things in her mouth (especially toys at play groups), if we have another child over to the house and the child puts the toys in his mouth then once the child leaves I will wash/disinfect those particular toys..... If I am on my babysitting round of my co-op (a friend of mine and I switch babysitting) then I am EXTREMALLY cautious with changing diapers. Immediately, after a diaper change my hands get washed. It may sound extreme but my daughter has not been sick. I think that people who vaccinate forget the basics of disease avoidance. Once you get into the habit it becomes routine. My father made my daughter a stool for the bathroom to reach the sink. Since age 1 she knows where the bathroom is and what it means to go and wash her hands. Just some ideas. I firmly believe that good hygiene, a boosted immunity, and a child who eats wholesome foods (ie. organic, grains, non-radiated (microwave), fresh) can fight most colds. My daughter has not had an ear infection and she is now 16 months old. In Feb. when our whole family came down with the flu....she walked away completely unscathed (and I was not nursing...I had to stop when she was 9 months old). Learn about homeopathay...it is quite amazing how successful homeopathy is...it has been around for over 200 years. My favorite example of homeopathy's success was in the 1800s when there was a scarlet fever epidemic...Homeopathic hospitals had a 3% death rate while traditional hospitals had a 33% death rate. Homeopathy also has " nosodes " . These help during epidemics of pertussis, etc. It is taken orally. Research it, it is quite amazing. Make sure to get the book Smart Medicine for a Healthier Child (listed several times on this list) Best wishes and welcome, in CT Jefkarp@... wrote: > > From: Jefkarp@... > > Hello, > My husband and I are the parents of a very healthy, un-vaccinated 6 month old > daughter, who was born at home. We were lucky enough to have a friend > suggest that we investigate the vaccine issue before I ever gave > birth...otherwise, I wonder if we would have just followed the masses and > vaccinated because that's just what everyone else does. We've tried to > interview i.e. set up consultations with pediatricians to discuss our options > and etc. regarding vaccinations. The unprofessional manner in which most of > the nurses / secretaries fielded my initial questions was a real eye-opener. > It became SO obvious that those of us that question the efficacy of vaccines > are truly in the minority. It was intimated by more than one pediatrician's > office that we were POOR parents for even considering NOT vaccinating. All I > wanted to do was gather information and discuss the issue - - that didn't > seem too threatening...but I guess someone felt threatened. We had no luck. > At any rate. Our daughter is magnificent and very healthy...but we've not > taken her to a pediatrician...reason being that if they agreed to consult > with us, then, regardless of how we as parents felt about the issue of > vaccine safety, our daughter would leave their office that very day having > been " shot " ...no if's, and's or but's. It really puts parents in a tough > position...we want to do the right thing, but doctors make it so that it's > completely one-sided: their way or not at all. > > But that's not so much what I wanted to write about as was a question > concerning the safety of our daughther playing with vaccinated children. I've > read some on the issue, but I can't find sufficient information regarding the > precautions we, as parents, need to take regarding our un-vaccinated > children's interaction with the recently vaccinated. Does anyone have some > diffinitive info. that they could share. I'd really appreciate it. Thanks. > Joan Karp > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Campaign 2000 is here! > > Discuss your thoughts; get informed at ONElist. See our homepage. -- @... *************************************************************** We Must Have The Freedom To Choose & Respect Everyone's Choice *************************************************************** Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you implement that decision is yours and yours alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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