Re: need information quickly

[Guest guest]

Maj. ,

One question that might be ask is who is going to shoulder the responsibilty for

any illness incurred by this vaccine. We here at the OKC ANG were given our

briefing back in Feb. Not to belittle our Flt Surgeon, but his answer was the VA

will take care of us if we get ill from the anthrax vaccine. Well, you can only

imagine the laughter. Maj., I'm sorry to say that you will not get any straight

answers from a DOD brief on this matter. The truth is slowly coming out about

this situation though. One being the veterinarian lie that was so used until

proven different. I'm sure that more and more lies will surface as people ask

questions and get answers. There are so many twist to this problem, one being

why is there only one manufacturer of this vaccine and does Ret.Adm. Crowe

owning stock in the co. have anything to do with it. Why did the Federal

Government spend tax money to rebuild a private facility such as Bioport. Why

did one Commander(from Conn.) lie to another Commander(mine) about a certain

Capt.(one of the Tiger Team members from Conn.) saying that he had changed his

mind and would have taken the shot if he had only known then what he knows now.

That is one more lie that came to light. Sometimes we don't even have to ask a

question to get a lie, it just comes spewing forth.

You are not alone in your decision about whether to be vaccinated or not. We

have had a semi sort of survey taken within our squadron and our Commanders are

well aware of the resistance to this sad state of affairs. I don't really think

they know the true number of folks that will not be vaccinated. The military

wanted more educated and informed people in their ranks. Well here we are!!!!

Keep the faith as this will surely pass as more is learned about the dangers,

physical and doctrinal.

Bill

, , MAJ, 134 OSF, DOTS wrote:

> From: " , , MAJ, 134 OSF, DOTS " <.@...>

>

> My Air National Guard unit is having a 90 minute presentation on

> June 6th to discuss/debate Anthrax vaccinations. I think this will be a

> critical juncture in the decision making process for most individuals and if

> most people (especially the leadership) leaves " feeling good " about the

> shots, I think the concern will die until days before the shots are given

> (December or January).

>

> I don't think the shots are needed, I don't think they will work

> very well against airborne Anthrax, I don't think it is easy to create

> Anthrax (airborne), I don't think an enemy would be stupid enough to use a

> biological weapon against a force that has been vaccinated and I think it is

> a ridiculous policy decision to vaccinate (probably driven by money and

> politics instead of " force protection " ); but, I don't want to bring any of

> those issues up at the meeting because we could debate those issues for

> weeks.

>

> I feel sure they are going to promote the DOD line that the vaccine

> is safe and that " As far as we know... " squalene was not used in any Anthrax

> vaccine. They will also quote the .07% ( I think that is the percentage

> they quote) number as being a small number (to show it is safe). Of course

> they say that all of those individuals are " fully recovered " and back on

> duty. They will discredit the Internet because it is an easy answer, they

> don't understand the Internet and because the Generals now claim that

> anything on the Internet is a form of journalism and that the only source of

> factual information is peer reviewed literature.

>

> What I would like to bring up for discussion is the following 3

> questions:

> 1) I can't understand how I vaccination can be considered

> safe, yet ____ or ____% of individuals are getting seriously ill. If a

> squalene adjuvant is really not the cause of those individuals sick, then

> what is causing them to have side effects like ________________?

> 2) How many people getting seriously ill is an acceptable

> number in the eyes of the DOD? (Our guests won't know the answer, but I am

> sure there is a percentage that DOD would find acceptable). Even if the

> actual number is NOT underreported, .07% still translates to 16,800 people;

> how lucky do you feel?

> 3) Since the vaccine is " safe " , if someone gets seriously

> ill, Anthrax vaccinations will not be considered the cause. Since their

> illness(es) will occur while they are civilians and at their civilian jobs,

> how will they be cared for? Will it be up to the individual to prove to the

> government that their illness(es) are related to the shots or will YOU (our

> flight doctor and the leadership) help us in that fight?

>

> Whatever information I give them will be scrutinized for any shred

> of exaggeration or untruth. What I need from you is the best information

> you have. I need:

> 1) a common list of symptoms from those that are ill,

> 2) a " best guess " of what the actual adverse reaction

> percentage is,

> 3) names of sick people and the details of their illnesses.

> For those individuals that are willing (and able) to be contacted, I need

> phone numbers and addresses so that our skeptical leadership can call and

> talk to the person and confirm that they are real and not some Internet

> propaganda.

> 4) I need incidents where individuals got sick, weren't

> medically treated properly and then were (or are) in the process of being

> discharged without benefits.

>

> I have spent hundreds of hours reading and researching this on the

> Internet. Unfortunately, I do not have to time to research this before the

> 6th of June. I am hoping your devoted interest to the AVIP will allow you

> to give me the " ammunition " I need quickly. My decision to NOT take the

> series of shots has been made.

>

> Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Maj. ,

One question that might be ask is who is going to shoulder the responsibilty for

any illness incurred by this vaccine. We here at the OKC ANG were given our

briefing back in Feb. Not to belittle our Flt Surgeon, but his answer was the VA

will take care of us if we get ill from the anthrax vaccine. Well, you can only

imagine the laughter. Maj., I'm sorry to say that you will not get any straight

answers from a DOD brief on this matter. The truth is slowly coming out about

this situation though. One being the veterinarian lie that was so used until

proven different. I'm sure that more and more lies will surface as people ask

questions and get answers. There are so many twist to this problem, one being

why is there only one manufacturer of this vaccine and does Ret.Adm. Crowe

owning stock in the co. have anything to do with it. Why did the Federal

Government spend tax money to rebuild a private facility such as Bioport. Why

did one Commander(from Conn.) lie to another Commander(mine) about a certain

Capt.(one of the Tiger Team members from Conn.) saying that he had changed his

mind and would have taken the shot if he had only known then what he knows now.

That is one more lie that came to light. Sometimes we don't even have to ask a

question to get a lie, it just comes spewing forth.

You are not alone in your decision about whether to be vaccinated or not. We

have had a semi sort of survey taken within our squadron and our Commanders are

well aware of the resistance to this sad state of affairs. I don't really think

they know the true number of folks that will not be vaccinated. The military

wanted more educated and informed people in their ranks. Well here we are!!!!

Keep the faith as this will surely pass as more is learned about the dangers,

physical and doctrinal.

Bill

, , MAJ, 134 OSF, DOTS wrote:

> From: " , , MAJ, 134 OSF, DOTS " <.@...>

>

> My Air National Guard unit is having a 90 minute presentation on

> June 6th to discuss/debate Anthrax vaccinations. I think this will be a

> critical juncture in the decision making process for most individuals and if

> most people (especially the leadership) leaves " feeling good " about the

> shots, I think the concern will die until days before the shots are given

> (December or January).

>

> I don't think the shots are needed, I don't think they will work

> very well against airborne Anthrax, I don't think it is easy to create

> Anthrax (airborne), I don't think an enemy would be stupid enough to use a

> biological weapon against a force that has been vaccinated and I think it is

> a ridiculous policy decision to vaccinate (probably driven by money and

> politics instead of " force protection " ); but, I don't want to bring any of

> those issues up at the meeting because we could debate those issues for

> weeks.

>

> I feel sure they are going to promote the DOD line that the vaccine

> is safe and that " As far as we know... " squalene was not used in any Anthrax

> vaccine. They will also quote the .07% ( I think that is the percentage

> they quote) number as being a small number (to show it is safe). Of course

> they say that all of those individuals are " fully recovered " and back on

> duty. They will discredit the Internet because it is an easy answer, they

> don't understand the Internet and because the Generals now claim that

> anything on the Internet is a form of journalism and that the only source of

> factual information is peer reviewed literature.

>

> What I would like to bring up for discussion is the following 3

> questions:

> 1) I can't understand how I vaccination can be considered

> safe, yet ____ or ____% of individuals are getting seriously ill. If a

> squalene adjuvant is really not the cause of those individuals sick, then

> what is causing them to have side effects like ________________?

> 2) How many people getting seriously ill is an acceptable

> number in the eyes of the DOD? (Our guests won't know the answer, but I am

> sure there is a percentage that DOD would find acceptable). Even if the

> actual number is NOT underreported, .07% still translates to 16,800 people;

> how lucky do you feel?

> 3) Since the vaccine is " safe " , if someone gets seriously

> ill, Anthrax vaccinations will not be considered the cause. Since their

> illness(es) will occur while they are civilians and at their civilian jobs,

> how will they be cared for? Will it be up to the individual to prove to the

> government that their illness(es) are related to the shots or will YOU (our

> flight doctor and the leadership) help us in that fight?

>

> Whatever information I give them will be scrutinized for any shred

> of exaggeration or untruth. What I need from you is the best information

> you have. I need:

> 1) a common list of symptoms from those that are ill,

> 2) a " best guess " of what the actual adverse reaction

> percentage is,

> 3) names of sick people and the details of their illnesses.

> For those individuals that are willing (and able) to be contacted, I need

> phone numbers and addresses so that our skeptical leadership can call and

> talk to the person and confirm that they are real and not some Internet

> propaganda.

> 4) I need incidents where individuals got sick, weren't

> medically treated properly and then were (or are) in the process of being

> discharged without benefits.

>

> I have spent hundreds of hours reading and researching this on the

> Internet. Unfortunately, I do not have to time to research this before the

> 6th of June. I am hoping your devoted interest to the AVIP will allow you

> to give me the " ammunition " I need quickly. My decision to NOT take the

> series of shots has been made.

>

> Thanks,

[Guest guest]

Hi Randi,

We all know what the truth is as far as who will take care of the ill because of

the vaccination. I had to throw that statement/question in that was ask at our

" briefing " just because of the laughter that it brought. Anyone with any sense

of

reality knows that the VA can't handle the work load they have now, and I'm sure

that most technician insurance companies will not cover an illness incurred

while

in a military status. Mine says they will, but that is yet to be seen. I have

been watching the events surrounding your situation and praying for your

recovery

as well as the others that are sick. Thank you and the others from your unit for

the testimony at the second congressional hearing. The truth will win out as it

always does. Keep the faith and keep the info coming. You are correct when you

say that most civilian doctors don't know anything about anthrax. I'm convinced

that most military doctors don't know much about it either, just the doctrine.

Hang in there Lady!

Sincerely,

Bill in OKC

Randice1@... wrote:

> From: Randice1@...

>

> If anyone wants to know " WHO " will take care of the civilians, just ask.

> Here is your answer:

> NO ONE! Civilian doctors (most) don't know anything about the anthrax

> vaccine. (I've run into this situation), and the Military doctors don't even

> associate your symptoms to the vaccine. I've seen two. Both tell me I had

> the flu, and too much stress at my job. Find a new job, and problems are

> solved. There's your answer. I can diagnose anyone over the internet as

> well as what they diagnosed me. Sorry, last sentence is a little sarcastic.

> But it is, the truth.

[Guest guest]

Hi Randi,

We all know what the truth is as far as who will take care of the ill because of

the vaccination. I had to throw that statement/question in that was ask at our

" briefing " just because of the laughter that it brought. Anyone with any sense

of

reality knows that the VA can't handle the work load they have now, and I'm sure

that most technician insurance companies will not cover an illness incurred

while

in a military status. Mine says they will, but that is yet to be seen. I have

been watching the events surrounding your situation and praying for your

recovery

as well as the others that are sick. Thank you and the others from your unit for

the testimony at the second congressional hearing. The truth will win out as it

always does. Keep the faith and keep the info coming. You are correct when you

say that most civilian doctors don't know anything about anthrax. I'm convinced

that most military doctors don't know much about it either, just the doctrine.

Hang in there Lady!

Sincerely,

Bill in OKC

Randice1@... wrote:

> From: Randice1@...

>

> If anyone wants to know " WHO " will take care of the civilians, just ask.

> Here is your answer:

> NO ONE! Civilian doctors (most) don't know anything about the anthrax

> vaccine. (I've run into this situation), and the Military doctors don't even

> associate your symptoms to the vaccine. I've seen two. Both tell me I had

> the flu, and too much stress at my job. Find a new job, and problems are

> solved. There's your answer. I can diagnose anyone over the internet as

> well as what they diagnosed me. Sorry, last sentence is a little sarcastic.

> But it is, the truth.

[Guest guest]

FYI: I will be speaking to members of the ANG in Madison Wisconsin the

weekend of June 6. I will be happy to speak to other groups (unpaid)

who can provide transportation for me to do so. I am also willing to

make my slides or photocopies available to groups for the cost of

copying them.

MY ANSWERS ARE BELOW IN CAPS:

1) I can't understand how I vaccination can be

considered

safe, yet ____ or ____% of individuals are getting seriously ill. If a

squalene adjuvant is really not the cause of those individuals sick,

then

what is causing them to have side effects like ________________?

WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT THE PROBLEM IS IN THE VACCINE; DOD MAY HAVE LOOKED

INTO THIS BUT THERE IS NO INFO IN THE OPEN LITERATURE. DIFFERENT %S GET

ILL FROM DIFFERENT LOTS; A DOCTOR AT LAST WEEK'S MEETING AT FORT DETRICK

REPORTED THAT LOTS 017,020 AND 030 WERE KNOWN TO BE PROBLEMS. BUT WE

DON'T KNOW THE OTHERS ARE SAFE, YET. JUST THAT THERE WERE MORE REPORTS

OF ILLNESS FROM THESE LOTS. AND MOST ILL SERVICEMEMBERS DO NOT REPORT

THEIR SYMPTOMS FOR MANY REASONS, BOTH GOOD REASONS AND BAD.

2) How many people getting seriously ill is an

acceptable

number in the eyes of the DOD? (Our guests won't know the answer, but I

am

sure there is a percentage that DOD would find acceptable). Even if the

actual number is NOT underreported, .07% still translates to 16,800

people;

how lucky do you feel?

3) Since the vaccine is " safe " , if someone gets

seriously

ill, Anthrax vaccinations will not be considered the cause.

THAT HAS BEEN A BIG PROBLEM SO FAR

Since their

illness(es) will occur while they are civilians and at their civilian

jobs,

how will they be cared for? Will it be up to the individual to prove to

the

government that their illness(es) are related to the shots or will YOU

(our

flight doctor and the leadership) help us in that fight?

Whatever information I give them will be scrutinized for any

shred

of exaggeration or untruth. What I need from you is the best

information

you have. I need:

1) a common list of symptoms from those that are ill,

MY LIST IS IN MY TESTIMONY, BUT OTHERS CAN ADD TO IT

2) a " best guess " of what the actual adverse reaction

percentage is,

FOR BATTLE CREEK, THE %AGE WAS 9/12, OR 75%. MY GUESS IS THAT IT IS

GREATER THAN 10% FOR LONG-TERM REACTIONS.

3) names of sick people and the details of their

illnesses.

For those individuals that are willing (and able) to be contacted, I

need

phone numbers and addresses so that our skeptical leadership can call

and

talk to the person and confirm that they are real and not some Internet

propaganda.

4) I need incidents where individuals got sick, weren't

medically treated properly and then were (or are) in the process of

being

discharged without benefits.

I have spent hundreds of hours reading and researching this on

the

Internet. Unfortunately, I do not have to time to research this before

the

6th of June. I am hoping your devoted interest to the AVIP will allow

you

to give me the " ammunition " I need quickly. My decision to NOT take the

series of shots has been made.

Thanks,

MERYL

--

Meryl Nass, M.D.

Parkview Hospital, Brunswick, Maine 04011

email mnass@...

phone (207) 865-0875

fax (207) 865-6975

[Guest guest]

Maj ,

My best advise to you would be to dip into your squadrons slush funds and

bring Dr. Meryl Nass down the same weekend! Meryl is WONDERFUL to say the

least! She is a wealth of knowledge and has been there and continues to be

for us here in the Creek. To give you a short history:

1. We are also a Guard Unit, 110th Fighter Wing, Battle Creek, MI

2. 12 of us began our series of vaccinations in September, 9 experienced

reactions. My last vaccination was 14 Mar 99, and I'm still experiencing

problems. I'm currently under the care of a general practitioner,

neurologist and a Rheumatologist. Myself and 3 others have also sent our

blood to Dr. Asa for the squalene test. To say the least it's been a rough

road and I feel it will continue to be for a while.

3. We were told that we need to be in military status to receive the shots

in the event there was a reaction they would provide medical care. Reality:

My civilian insurance has spent thousands of dollars in the past few months

the military?

4. Incidents where individuals got sick and weren't medically treated

properly? We are a great example of everything that could go wrong!

Following our testimonies on the 29th the AF send a team from AFB to

investigate. As of last Tuesday the report has not yet been finalize. I am

sure however it will be interesting reading.

Finally, our testimonies are on the web along with Dr. Nass's. If you would

like more details or information please feel free to contact me.

Robin

robi2662@...

[Guest guest]

If anyone wants to know " WHO " will take care of the civilians, just ask.

Here is your answer:

NO ONE! Civilian doctors (most) don't know anything about the anthrax

vaccine. (I've run into this situation), and the Military doctors don't even

associate your symptoms to the vaccine. I've seen two. Both tell me I had

the flu, and too much stress at my job. Find a new job, and problems are

solved. There's your answer. I can diagnose anyone over the internet as

well as what they diagnosed me. Sorry, last sentence is a little sarcastic.

But it is, the truth.

[Guest guest]

Dear htransport20000:

I hope you don't take it amiss that no one responded immediately to your

request for quick information. I'm afraid that this group is focused almost

exclusively on daily life and treatment issues related to flatback syndome

induced by spinal fusion surgery, and the grave position that your sister

is in is probably beyond our areas of experience. (It's certainly well

beyond mine.)I think that the only thing we may be able to help with is if

you have specific requests for finding more general information online

about scoliosis. I did a quick search for pulmonary hypertension and

scoliosis and couldn't find much material other than the fact that

untreated thoracic scoliosis can indeed cause it.

I would suggest that you prepare a detailed list of questions to discuss

with your sister's doctor. It helps to have it written down, and to write

down the doctor's answers, since you can make sure you cover everything you

want to know even if you hear complicated or potentially upsetting news. If

you can give us more information about the situation, I'll be happy to help

you figure out what questions your family should be asking the doctor.

Also, as always, a second opinion from another doctor will validate the

information you've already received and reassure you that your family is

making the right choice. I know that time is of the essence on this, so

this may not be possible.

I'm dreadfully sorry that I can't provide more help. Please know that our

thoughts are with your family nonetheless during this difficult time.

Best wishes,

Elissa M.

At 01:08 AM 01/29/2002 +0000, you wrote:

>My sister has scolois. She has now has pulmanary hypertention and

>its not looking good. They have put her on a cpac machine and oxygen

>machine. Its nots working. They want do a trach operation now.

>Doctors say that if she doesn't do this she will maybe have 1 year

>left.

>Any help or incouragement would be appreciate.

>Please pray for her and our family

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Elissa. Thank you for responding back. Just had time to check my

mail. Little up date on my precious sister. We had the trac put in

and she is back at home now. The doctors have suggested that she try

the trac for thirty days and then come back for follow up to see how

her lungs and heart are progressing. Well I have done some intense

research (you are right, there isn't much data available on these

promlems she is having. She was also diagnoised (sp) as being

malnutrion, because her body has used up all of its proteins, etc.

trying to fight for survival. I have started her a regiment of

vitiams, teas for the heart and lungs. The edima has gone down some,

at least enough that she can bend her legs. She is having some panic

attacks along with everthing else. But with Gods help and the will

to live, we will over come this. I think people with scolios should

have more information of what they may have to deal with or at least

what there bodies might go thru as they get older. When she started

swelling so bad her doctor treated for arthritis. She nearly died

because he didn't see the signs. She has been a heart patient of his

also for 15 years. Do we really trust our Doctors?????

Well thanks for the ear and for your information.

God Bless Deb In

@y..., " Elissa K. " <elissa@p...> wrote:

> Dear htransport20000:

>

> I hope you don't take it amiss that no one responded immediately to

your

> request for quick information. I'm afraid that this group is

focused almost

> exclusively on daily life and treatment issues related to flatback

syndome

> induced by spinal fusion surgery, and the grave position that your

sister

> is in is probably beyond our areas of experience. (It's certainly

well

> beyond mine.)I think that the only thing we may be able to help

with is if

> you have specific requests for finding more general information

online

> about scoliosis. I did a quick search for pulmonary hypertension

and

> scoliosis and couldn't find much material other than the fact that

> untreated thoracic scoliosis can indeed cause it.

>

> I would suggest that you prepare a detailed list of questions to

discuss

> with your sister's doctor. It helps to have it written down, and to

write

> down the doctor's answers, since you can make sure you cover

everything you

> want to know even if you hear complicated or potentially upsetting

news. If

> you can give us more information about the situation, I'll be happy

to help

> you figure out what questions your family should be asking the

doctor.

>

> Also, as always, a second opinion from another doctor will validate

the

> information you've already received and reassure you that your

family is

> making the right choice. I know that time is of the essence on

this, so

> this may not be possible.

>

> I'm dreadfully sorry that I can't provide more help. Please know

that our

> thoughts are with your family nonetheless during this difficult

time.

>

> Best wishes,

> Elissa M.

>

>

>

> At 01:08 AM 01/29/2002 +0000, you wrote:

> >My sister has scolois. She has now has pulmanary hypertention and

> >its not looking good. They have put her on a cpac machine and

oxygen

> >machine. Its nots working. They want do a trach operation now.

> >Doctors say that if she doesn't do this she will maybe have 1 year

> >left.

> >Any help or incouragement would be appreciate.

> >Please pray for her and our family

> >

> >

> >

> >