Re: Digest Number 182

April 5, 1999

> essage: 3

> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 1999 11:44:23 -0400

> From: Alba <alicia@...>

> Subject: IV during labor..

>

> HI--

>

> I always here of mothers not wanting to have an IV during labor, but have

> never quite understood it. The Drs never asked me if I wanted it or not.

> They just gave it to me. I guess I could have objected, but I was in so

> much pain I did not even feel like talking. What are the dangers of having

> an IV?? What are the dangers of not having an IV? I was considered to be

> completely low risk etc.. The only thing was I did not think I was really

> in labor, I thought it was prelabor..so my husband kept giving me water

> and of course it kept coming up.. So maybe that is why they gave me the IV

> without asking, maybe they thought I would get dehydrated..

>

> Also I wanted to ask.. Did anyone have demoral after they were 10 cm

> dilated?? Is this considered safe?? All the Drs say it is completely safe??

>

> Also I wanted to ask how many mothers who had demoral-- had babies that did

> not cry at birth, but were otherwise normal??

>

> thanks--

>

> Rocky's MOM

>

_______________________________________________________________________________

>

_______________________________________________________________________________

>

An IV during labor does not pose much risk of anything.

Simply many people do not like it as it hinders mobility, showering, etc and

makes them feel like they are " sick " or not involved in a natural process.

People do seem to get dehydrated if they vomit alot during labor and have a long

labor

but in general I do not know that an IV is really warrented in some cases

anyway.

But, it really does not pose much physical problems.

As for demerol at 10cm, why? at 10cm it is usually time to push, not sleep.

Also, nothing is completely harmless.

all narcotics make newborns " sleepy " and again you need to look at benefit

verses

risk.

Not all babies cry at birth anyway and in general tend to cry alot less if they

are

given to mom right away. 9 times out of 10 the moms want to know why the baby

isn't

crying when the baby is placed ontop of them right after birth at their request.

(

I usually do this anyway).

Marcy

April 5, 1999

> Hi--

>

> I would like to make a comment on having a birthing plan and not being able

> to trust you OB. When I got pregnant I had a very hard time even finding

> ab OB/GYN. I could not find an OB/GYN in my insurance plan was taking my

> insurance anymore or they were not accepting any new patients. And Mdwives

> were not even covered in my plan unfortunately . This is in NYC so I can

> imagine if you live in a more rural environment that there may not be as

> many options available.

>

> When I finally found a Dr I was already a couple of months pregnant. I was

> hoping that I could establish a good relatinship, so I would feel more

> relaxed during my labor. But i felt like I should go to the hospital at

> the last possible second so I would not be tempted by having in

> unneccessary medical intervention. Unfortunately I did not wait long

> enough and I was given demoral at 10 cm when I was completely on schedule

> for a normal delivery. I felt like I was kind of talked into it. When I

> really did nto want it. I now think that this could have caused some kind

> of birth trauma to my son and the DPaT vaccine out him over the edge.

>

> Rocky's MOM

>

_______________________________________________________________________________

>

_______________________________________________________________________________

I used to work in NY.

There is a big choice there.

Managed care is a big problem and I personally would rather pay for the MD I

want

then be stuck with whatever my insurance covered.

Before I became a nurse I did the same thing.

I would never narrow myself in an HMO.

Anyway, that is another issue in itself.

What was the reason you were given for them wanting to give you demerol at 10

cm?

By the way, I always tell my patients that pain meds are available.

If they have told me they do not want any I tell them they are available but I

will

make no offers,

if they change their minds they can ask me. That usually works out well.

Then it is their responsibilty and their option. Nobody should ever ORDER pain

medication against your will.

April 5, 1999

>

> Unfortunately I did not wait long

> enough and I was given demoral at 10 cm when I was completely on schedule

> for a normal delivery. I felt like I was kind of talked into it. When I

> really did nto want it. I now think that this could have caused some kind

> of birth trauma to my son and the DPaT vaccine out him over the edge.

>

> Rocky's MOM

It is highly unlikely that the demerol would cause any birth trauma.

The baby may be have respiratory depression at birth but can be rapidly

reveresed.

>

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>

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April 5, 1999

In a message dated 4/5/99 8:47:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, marcy@...

writes:

<< It is highly unlikely that the demerol would cause any birth trauma.

The baby may be have respiratory depression at birth but can be rapidly

reveresed.

>>

Narcotics are VERY powerful drugs and they always have side-effects...just

not always immediately measurable ones. They also interfere with the baby's

brain development and bonding. Not to mention that his first experience will

be of getting high!! Do you not think that it will make a difference later

in life when she/he tries other drugs, including alcohol? There is research

to support, as well as common sense, the theory that our birth experience

frame our lives, and effect us on a profoundly deep level.

Bonding is more important than any medical personnel will lead you to

believe. Using narcotics will interfere with the baby's ability to bond and

also the Mother's ability to bond. When you are high you can not make the

beautiful connection between Mother and child. Babies on drugs also nurse

less efficiently during those special first moments/hours. Its bad enough

that hospital births are dangerous in themselves, you do not need to add

powerful drugs to the equation.

Narcotics interfere with endorphin production, which are your body's natural

pain-killers. Endorphins alleviate pain without dangerous side-effects and

without affecting you in a negative psychological way. Narcotics are the

bogus synthetic version of endorphins; they trick your brain's

neurotransmitters and negatively impact every system in your body. They

also shut off your body's natural defenses, ultimately making labor,

delivery, and recovery more painful and unnatural. The baby, unfortunately,

suffers the most. Not only is she/he put in harm's way, but psychologically

her first moments on earth are of a drug-induced stupor. Sure, the medical

community can probably keep a baby from dying from overdose, etc....but not

without further exposing her to harmful drugs and treatments. Instead of

peaceful bonding with her Mother, a drugged baby is confused, frightened, and

if problems arise----DANGEROUSLY separated from her Mother. Do you want your

child's first memories to be of breathing apparatus and drug use? Instead of

being warmly welcomed into the world, these babies are greeted by strangers

and terrifying treatments. Also, residual pain caused by birth (little

bruises, etc..) will be all the more painful once her high wears off. The

little baby will not have her natural endorphins to dull the pain, because

narcotics have interfered with their production during birth.

Sorry, to go off on you. I could go on and on about the dangers of ANY drug

use or anesthesia during labor and delivery. These are just a few... It

aggravates me that the medical professionals who are trying to " help " ,

neglect to inform their patients about safe alternatives. They also neglect

to inform their laboring patient about the known scientific dangers of

narcotics!! Just because they can maybe " reverse " known damage, does not

make it right to put that poor little infant in harm's way. (never mind the

psychological, or life-long consequences---there will be time for Prozac and

Betty Ford clinics later)

Now, I am not blaming you---it was not your fault. I am talking about things

in general here, not your particular case. I am sure that if you had known,

you would not have resorted to drugs---especially when you were almost done!

BTW, there is ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY no need for an IV in a normal birth. In

the event of a complication an IV can be started in seconds. I think that it

is just one of the many ways to control a woman in labor. These practices

are dangerous and unnecessary. Birth is a natural and beautiful process...if

you allow yourself to enjoy it. Only about 5 percent of deliveries need a

Doctor's meddling....it does not sound like you were one of the unlucky five

percent. You could have had a wonderful, awe-inspiring, validating

experience...but the medical community stole that from you. You would be

" right " to be angry, so do not feel guilty. They took advantage of a woman

in need who needed support---not dangerous drugs.

~~G

April 14, 1999

Hi All!

This is in response to 's e-mail regarding IV's

& Demoral, etc. I very specifically told the

anesthesiologist not to give me anything that would

make me high (I did this for the birth of both of my

children who were, unfortunately, both c-sections).

Both times I was flying by the time my sons were born.

I refused all oral meds after the surgeries, those I

had control over. The doctors don't care what you

tell them, they do whatever they want, anyway. I was

quite distressed both times and was basically ignored.

--- Vaccinationsonelist wrote:

>

> Have you visited our new web site?

>

> Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>

> There are 4 messages in this issue.

>

> Topics in today's digest:

>

> 1. Re: Group B Strep

> From: Rich or Ann Maxted

> <crossbow@...>

> 2. vitamin k and blood in Spinal fluid.

> From: Alba

> <alicia@...>

> 3. IV during labor..

> From: Alba

> <alicia@...>

> 4. Birth Plan

> From: Alba

> <alicia@...>

>

August 4, 1999

Hi Chris:

Re: Social Phobia treatment

What a success story for winning the battle against OCD!

I'm not sure I agree that social phobia is easier to treat than OCD for the very

reasons you and your

daughter described- it's more pervasive in some ways, and because even therapy

itself is a high level

challenge- it is a " constant social exposure " . It sounds like your daughter is

getting comfortable with her

therapist and that is a great achievement. Practice is the way to go- a social

skills group may be helpful

as has been discussed recently on this site. I find that changing the emotional

temperature in social

exposures is very important- for example using humor. If a child has difficulty

with phone calls I have them

think about a silly call- for example, calling Mcs to make a reservation!

Or, pretending to speak with

an accent- or imagine they are Jewel or some rock star when they practice saying

hi to someone. If children

are " painfully shy " where these challenges are excrutiating, I sometimes use

EMDR (eye movement

desensitization) to decrease the discomfort and give kids an opportunity to

picture themselves having what

they need to socialize (e.g., some whale skin to protect them from teasing, a

microphone to help them speak

up,etc).

Is the therapist accompanying your daughter on these exposures? Some " low "

level exposures that are actually

tough are asking what time it is, buying a soda at a store etc.- sometimes it is

easier to do the exposures

with strangers you never see again, than with people you know and see regularly.

Keep me posted.

Kathy:

Thanks for your appreciation-it's my pleasure.

Tamar Chansky, Ph.D.

November 29, 1999

Date: Mon, 29 Nov 1999 00:23:00 EST

> From: FemDomSoc@...

>Subject: Re: Servings

>

>What is enrich? I am on my diet for life, personally, but hey, it could be

>worse. It keeps me healthy and in great shape.

You must have great will power - and I envy you! I was depressed, edgy (ie

bitch from hell) when I was on the diet. I realize alot of that was from

die-off, etc - but I missed fresh fruit, I missed making my home-made bread

(so did my husband for that matter)...I didn't want to believe that I'd have

to sacrifice my " eating pleasures " for longer than I did. I do eat

extremely well, I'm not really into junk food - I used to do juice fasts for

cleansing my system, exercise regularly and I have always drank 8 - 10

glasses of water a day - that's why when fruit, sugar, bread, cheese, wine

and vinegar were taken away from me - I got desperate after doing the diet

for 12 weeks with really awful reactions when we reintroduced the " bad "

foods to my diet....You are right, there could be worse things that being on

the diet for life - I just couldn't keep affording the special food and

supplements that I needed to buy to remain on the diet so I wanted to try

something else before I accepted the " diet " as the only solution...and in my

case it worked....Enrich is another health supplement company sold through

distributors - I got mine from a Certified Nutritionist and have a friend

that's a Nurse also involved with them - that's why I wasn't as skeptical as

I normally would be....

Kath.

November 30, 1999

In a message dated 11/29/99 6:52:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,

kathlyc@... writes:

<< onger than I did. I do eat

extremely well, I'm not really into junk food - I used to do juice fasts for

cleansing my system, exercise regularly and I have always drank 8 - 10

glasses of water a day - that's why when fruit, sugar, bread, cheese, wine

and vinegar were taken away from me - I got desperate after doing the diet

for 12 weeks with really awful reactions >>

Well, Im vegetarian too is my diet is really limited. It's not all that bad,

really. I have allergies so I don't think I'll ever be off this diet. I can

have fruit and stuff as long as I don't over do it, but yeast, eggs and dairy

are definite no-nos, as well as caffeine, alcohol and chocolate, drugs,

cigarettes and artificial crap or preservatives. I play in a band so my life

is far from routine, that is probably what keeps me going, that and the fact

that I'm in so much better shape than 99 percent of people I know!

January 30, 2000

to view archives go to onelist, click on and view archives

Or go to any of your search engines, I really like 37.com, and type in

toiletries library, they have a wonderful selection of toiletries, including

soap.

I have to let you know though, that all soap begins with oil, water and lye,

just in case you start to wonder. After they saponify they are no longer the

separate ingredients, but natural soap.

Good luck

Faith

January 30, 2000

B & B,

Is there an archive of recipes. I'm really only interested in doing things

for me & my immediate family. I have very sensivite skin and am not

supposed to use anything w/oil or alcohol, yet the dermatologist's soap is

$9/bar and not covered by insurance, so I would love to find an alternative

way of enjoying soaps, creams, splashes, even shampoos if possible. Thanks,

Bobbye

May 20, 2000

In a message dated 5/20/00 4:04:09 AM Pacific Daylight Time,

egroups writes:

<< was 39 when was born...41 when (non ds) was born....43

when (non ds) was born. >>

And how old are you NOW, Ann??

:-)

May 21, 2000

44 (for 2 more months, that is)

Ann

June 12, 2000

Dear Beth,

What would be the purpose of taking the iron? It will not help your

anemia. You don't have an iron-deficiency anemia, you have a hemolytic

anemia, caused by the ribavirin. Your doctor said your iron levels are

good. So I don't understand why she is telling you to take the iron. Your

hemoglobin and hematocrit should improve with the reduction in ribavirin

without any supplements, and like I said, taking iron WON'T help. If the

anemia doesn't improve within a few weeks the only thing that would help

would be to discontinue the ribavirin completely. I would take the milk

thistle though.

Take care, Claudine

>From: Beth_Sutter@...

>I am now taking only 400 mg ribavarin because of the anemia. When I went

>to

>see my doctor last week she also suggested that I start taking milk thistle

>and a multi-vitamin WITH iron. I questioned the iron and she said that

>since my iron levels are good I should switch to a multi-vitamin with iron

>while taking the ribavarin. Has anyone else been told to switch back to a

>multi with iron? Thanks.

>

>Beth

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June 12, 2000