OT Re: How to have healthy children

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/17/00 19:33:47 Uhr, xtina@... writes:

<< I have to agree that homebirth is a very personal choice. Everyone

should

> have the option of having one, but to say it is the best is not

viewing all

> the different aspects that surround birth. >>

I didn't say it was best. I was responding to 's comment that it

wasn't safe. I simply said that statistically speaking home birth is safer

than hospital birth. And yes it is very definitely a personal choice. Kimme

[Guest guest]

Hi everybody! It is my opinion that what is true about homebirths is that

although they may be statistically safer than hospital births, for a given

child and mother, they may or may not be safer. Reliable, accurate

Information about home and hospital births should be available to all, and

the right to choose. Just as with vaccinations.

Babies born at home and their mothers used to die just as children have died

from disease. Babies born in hospitals and their mothers die just as do

children from vaccinations. There is no right or wrong answer. We need to

support an individual's right to choose and their right to have good

information with which to make a choice.

One cent is all this is worth. Sandy

[Guest guest]

At 11:59 PM 11/19/00 -0500, you wrote:

>In a message dated 11/19/00 23:12:06 Uhr, adrienne@... writes:

>

><< Homebirths are unsafe if you don't have a good support system. It doesn't

>matter how good your midwife is if your husband (or other main support

>person) is against homebirth. >>

>

>This is of course true in the case of hospital births too. Kimme

Well, yes. But I didn't see anybody arguing that everyone should have a

hospital birth, just that everyone should have a homebirth. I'm arguing

for the right of a woman to give birth where she feels best about

it. Turning the argument around doesn't really make a difference.

Adrienne

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/20/00 10:00:36 Uhr, adrienne@... writes:

<< But I didn't see anybody arguing that everyone should have a

hospital birth, just that everyone should have a homebirth. I'm arguing

for the right of a woman to give birth where she feels best about

it. >>

I never argued that everyone should have a homebirth. You are absolutely

right that we should all feel empowered to give birth where we feel most

comfortable. I only stated that homebirths are statistically safer not that

everyone should have one. Kimme

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/29/00 12:00:21 Uhr, lisa@... writes:

<< Consider reading " Confessions of a Medical Heretic " and " Male Practice "

by Dr. Mendelsohn. >>

Silent Knife and Immaculate Deception II are also excellent. Kimme

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/29/00 11:27:37 AM Central Standard Time, xtina@...

writes:

<< to feel appreciated?? >>

I personally FEEL, and this is going by the 2 idiots who attended my births

-- that it's a power trip. Plain and simple. We always seek to control that

which we do not understand. And let's face it, they don't get it. Kudos to

those doctors who step aside and admit they don't know how it feels, or will

listen to the mother's feelings about the subject and act in what SHE feels

is best for the situation. But in my experience, this didn't happen. And I

feel that, after talking to many moms on both those weekends, that most moms

don't know (especially first timers) that doctors don't know everything, nor

do they realize they have a choice. Nor were they ever told anything beyond

" this is what we do " . They trusted the statements without looking for

foundation. That's why it SEEMS that a lot of doctors are okay, but

honestly, they're all taught the same things in medical school, so reason

tells you they are going to follow the same routine and party line -- unless

they have personally made an effort to go beyond the text book instructions

and research a little more. And they are out there, just not in the majority.

I remember reading a book where the authors took 25 women from the 60s and

wrote out their birth stories and how they felt. At that time, most were

pretty okay with what they had experienced. 20 years later when the

researchers went back and re-interviewed the women and the child involved,

they found that none of the women were okay with the original birth

experience, and that they were all resentful to some degree, and many were

guilty and angry. Mostly due to things they found out afterward or in the

years since. Their children also showed signs of birth stress. I wish I

could remember the book - in all cases the mothers remembered the experience

just the same as when they originally had given it, but it was their views of

it that had changed. I think that's sad.

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/29/00 9:30:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,

squeaksoup@... writes:

<<

<< Im not a doctor and even I resent that comment! Your

suggesting that doctors do C/S to feel useful??? >>

I'm sure this is true for some doctors. >>

I read that it just goes against their training to sit around on their hands

for hours/days waiting for a woman to birth.They do feel the need to do

SOMETHING.Rare(so I hear) are those who can just sit back and allow nature to

take its course.

sara

[Guest guest]

-

Consider reading " Confessions of a Medical Heretic " and " Male Practice "

by Dr. Mendelsohn. It sure was an eye opener from a Doctors point of

view who was a doctor for over 30 years.

wrote:

>

>

> >

> > > Doesn't a c/s make the hospital and the dr more money??

> >

> > Yes, it also makes the anesthetist a lot of money, and it saves the

> dr time,

> > and allows her/him to practice their skills (since, really, they

> don't do much

> > for a low-risk vaginal birth, right? The nurses do all the work

> during the

> > labour and then the dr comes in - maybe - for the catch. People

> like to feel

> > useful, and at an uncomplicated, smooth labour and birth, there's

> really not

> > much for them to do).

> >

> >

> >

> > >******************************************

>

> , Im not a doctor and even I resent that comment! Your

> suggesting that doctors do C/S to feel useful??? Give me a break!

>

> > >

>

--

@...

***************************************************************

Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical

OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you

implement that decision is yours and yours alone.

[Guest guest]

I work with docs everyday...I KNOW they are not the most upstanding

citizens from experience. BUT i am again having difficulties with

the blanket statements thrown around on this list. NO ALL DOCS ARE

BAD.... not all homeopaths are good. There are good and bad in EVERY

bunch. I take offense that they would do a C/S to " feel

appreciated " ...LOL do it for the money yes....to feel appreciated??

Maybe some........but certainly not all

> > >

> > > > Doesn't a c/s make the hospital and the dr more money??

> > >

> > > Yes, it also makes the anesthetist a lot of money, and it saves

the

> > dr time,

> > > and allows her/him to practice their skills (since, really, they

> > don't do much

> > > for a low-risk vaginal birth, right? The nurses do all the work

> > during the

> > > labour and then the dr comes in - maybe - for the catch. People

> > like to feel

> > > useful, and at an uncomplicated, smooth labour and birth,

there's

> > really not

> > > much for them to do).

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > >******************************************

> >

> > , Im not a doctor and even I resent that comment! Your

> > suggesting that doctors do C/S to feel useful??? Give me a break!

> >

> > > >

> >

>

> --

> @p...

> ***************************************************************

> Any information obtained here is not to be construed as medical

> OR legal advice. The decision to vaccinate and how you

> implement that decision is yours and yours alone.

[Guest guest]

Gotta throw in Robbins' book " Reclaiming Our Health " - great

chapters on midwifery, menopause without HRT,and alternative cancer

treatment.

On Wed, 29 Nov 2000 12:46:41 EST squeaksoup@... writes:

>

> In a message dated 11/29/00 12:00:21 Uhr, lisa@... writes:

>

> << Consider reading " Confessions of a Medical Heretic " and " Male

> Practice "

> by Dr. Mendelsohn. >>

>

> Silent Knife and Immaculate Deception II are also excellent. Kimme

>

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>

>

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[Guest guest]

Don't be sorry - I should have specified that only some doctor are like this

- that's the problem with e-mail - it's hard to express emotions and tone of

voice.

wrote:

> Oh I definately agree with you...and I can appreciate your cynisism

> (sp?)....sorry, I just get antsy when these blanket, allencompassing

> statements are made. There are always exceptions to every rule; I

> know you know this, but I get the impression that some dont.

> Sorry

>

>

>

> >

> > > , Im not a doctor and even I resent that comment! Your

> > > suggesting that doctors do C/S to feel useful???

> >

> > All I was trying to say is that sometimes caesareans are done for

> reasons

> > other than true medical indications. I still stick by belief that

> sometimes

> > they are indeed necessary, and I have worked with doctors who have

> truly

> > been sorry that one had to be performed, as well as one who gave

> the woman

> > the choice between vaginal birth and C/S for her breech baby. But

> I have

> > also been at a few caesareans where it was obviously not indicated,

> or where

> > the dr made some totally inappropriate comment about the woman's

> inabailty

> > to " do this - she'll be sectioned by the end of the night, " etc.

> After

> > having several HORRIBLE experiences with drs being completely

> disrespectful

> > to women, I suppose I have become somewhat cynical.

>