Re: HI - ANOTHER NEWBIE

[Guest guest]

Hello Colleen and welcome J

I am a 58 year old who has underactivethyroid for the past 10 years and still feels ill although take 125mcg oflevothyroxine and docs say I should be ok!!That just about sums it up....story of our lives L

Help - where do I start please?

Our usual recommendation when the thyroid meds are not working as they should is to -

a) check the adrenal function,

check for Candida albicans,

c) check the minerals & vitamins – namely: Ferritin, Folate, Zinc, Copper, Magnesium, Vit D3, Vit B12

In addition to the above reasons for the meds not working might be -

d) Amalgam fillings

e) conversion problems of T4 to T3

f) receptor resistance

g) food allergies

h) hormone imbalances

i) dosage too low

However, in your case things are a little different – you already take steroids for your arthritis (Prednisolone, I assume ?) so your body is well catered for as far as cortisol levels go... which knocks out low adrenal function (a) above as a possible culprit. Unfortunately immuno-suppressants do predispose you for Candida, so that needs to be checked and addressed if applicable, as need all the other points.

I am sure my chronic fatigue, bad nails, bad hair and a lot of general aches andpains are from thyroid problem but everything gets blamed on arthritis.

I have high blood pressure (caused by immume suppressants for athritis) and thedocs surgery dont even bother checking that let alone thryoid.

I do not want to give you false hope, but I have read a book by Broda . Dr. passed away in 1988, but his work transformed the lives of thousands of his patients during his life time – people who had suffered for years without their own doctors being able to help – and Dr. helped them to find relief with the help of a simple and effective therapy – natural desiccated thyroid. The work of Dr. Peatfield (our medical advisor) and many doctors like him was inspired by Broda and he is carrying on spreading the word. – You will see what I mean by not wanting to give you false hope, as I am about to type out a section of Broda ' book "Hypothyroidis, the unsuspected illness".

Psoriasis:

Psoriasis is another serious and often resistant disease o the skin. It is characterized by bright red patches coveres with solvery scales which appear most often on the knees, elbows and scalp. The chest, abdomen, back of arms and legs, palms of hands, and soles of the feet are other locations frequently affected. Psoriasis also may occur along with rheumatoid arthritis.

Here again, in psoriasis, the mucopolysaccharides are increased in the connective tissues. Early workers with thyroid therapy had reported about the turn of the century that some cases of psoriasis responded spectacularly while others were dismal failures.

My own experience with psoriasis has been limited to about a dozen cases, with no improvement at all from thyroid therapy in four but marked improvements in the others. In one case, the improvement was spectacular. This was the University of Denver retired dean whom I mentioned earlier. After half a century of being plagued by psoriasis, his skin cleared entirely with thyroid therapy.

The most serious psoriasis case in my series is a recent one. This is a twenty-four year old man whose psoriasis had started nine years before. Despite repeated treatment efforts, his condition had grown progressively worse and had reached the point where his entire skin was involved. When he undressed for physical examination, the floor was covered with scales.

Thyroid therapy was started and in about a month there was some improvement. But then no further progress was made. It became obvious that something else had to be done. At the end of the second month, prednisone was added in very small dosage to the thyroid medication. Prednisone is an anti-inflammatory compound related to hormones of the adrenal gland. With the addition of prednisone, further improvement occurred during the next month. A month later, the skin was almost clear for the first time in nine years. (More will be said about the combination of thyroid and prednisone therapy in the chapter on arthritis).....

The chapter on Arthritis is a long one, so I am not typing it all out, but just a couple of para's –

......Although the incidence of arthritis is not much different from that of hypertension, the amount of suffering is another matter. Blood pressure may be elevated for years without symptoms but arthritis may begin with debilitating pain even in childhood which may persist into advanced years. There is an old saying that arthritis never kills; it just keeps it victims miserable.

Is there a connection between arthritis and the thyroid? Often there is. I've seen it in hundreds of patients with rheumatic complaints and low thyroid function whose bone, joint and muscle troubles were relieved when their thyroid function was corrected.....

Certainly, hypothyroidism cannot be considered to be invariably the cause of arthritic conditions. In my practice I have seen many children and adults respond to thyroid therapy alone. But others have not. More recently, many of these others who have failed to respond to thyroid therapy alone have responded when thyroid has been combined with prednisone, a cortisonelike compound, used in extremely small doses, far below the amounts ever employed before successfully in arthritic conditions and without any of the undesirable effects associated with the larger amounts....

I think you should get that book, Colleen ... and preferably also Dr. Barry Peatfield's book "Your thyroid and how to keep it healthy".Oh, and you will have guessed – Dr. was not talking about Levothyroxine, but Armour thyroid. Something else I have not mentioned yet is that Armour thyroid (or Erfa or any good natural desiccated thyroid hormone) will usually normalize high blood pressure without the need for BP drugs. My own niece had been suffering from high blood pressure for 10 years. After a few months on NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) her BP is now normal.

As I said above, I do not want to give you false hope – it might not work, and you would have to bear that possibility in mind ..... but what have you got to lose by trying it out? – your Levo isn't working for you by the sounds of it, and your doctors are at a loss and want to put you onto adalimumab, which, I read, might have quite nasty side effects. There are no guarantees, but there is a good chance that NDT might rid you off your psoriasis, high BP AND it might even work and rid you of your low thyroid symptoms J - plus you may be able to lower your steroid intake AND help your arthritis. You did not say how much of the immune-suppressants you are taking and what, but the amounts Dr. is talking about would have been physiological dosages – no more than 5 mg prednisone/prednisolone (or the equivalent = 20 mg Hydrocortisone) per day in conjunction with NDT.

It has to be your own decision, but if you wanted to give this a go, you could approach either your GP or your Rheum and ask if they would prescribe Armour thyroid (Erfa) for you. They probably won't, but you never know your luck. If they refuse, you could change tack and offer to buy Erfa yourself – but would they at least agree to monitor you .... - with this you may have more luck. If that gets refused, you could then decide to try it anyway – who is to know, but you? But we can cross that bridge when we come to it, provided you would like to give it a go. - Adalimumab will still be an option for you, if all else fails.

Oh, before I forget.... your Vit D3 was atrociously low – I hope you are taking mega doses now to bring the level up – how much are you taking?

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thank you for answering.

No I dont take steriods - I take methotrexate (immune suppressant). The only

time I have had steriods is when a couple of bad infections would not clear up -

and some steriod injections into joints. Have had loads of drugs over the

years to help but now stick to methotrexate and codeine for pain relief

(arthritis does indeed make you miserable unfortunately). As for vit D, I was

given calcichew (2 a day) plus I take one Vit D 400 iu per day - is that enough?

My doc said that he cannot give me prescription for Vit D so just to buy some.

Last blood test showed it had gone to 30 or 40 I think so he said just keep

taking tabs.

I did take 150mcg thyroxine for a while but doc said my levels were too high and

had to go back to 125mcg.

As for blood pressure, I never had any trouble until one of the immune

suppressants upset it about 5 years ago - once started it doesnt stop

unfortunately so not thyroid that caused that.

The worst thing is the brain fuzz, lack of concentration and poor memory on top

of all physical probs - sound a right old moaner dont I - sorry!!

I am going to see my doc and ask him about new blood tests and see what he says

about NDT - worth asking at least. Also going to see if I can get copy of book

too - thank you so much for taking the time to write all this reply.

C

>

>

> Hello Colleen and welcome J

>

> I am a 58 year old who has underactive

> thyroid for the past 10 years and still feels ill although take 125mcg

> of

> levothyroxine and docs say I should be ok!!

> That just about sums it up....story of our lives L

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hello Colleen

You don't have to buy the books mentioned. TPA has its

very own lending library and you have quite a few books which some of our

members are willing to lend you. Go to our FILES section, accessible from the

Home Page of this forum web site http://health.groups//group/thyroid treatment

and scroll down the long list there (all alphabetically) to the FOLDER entitled

'Lending Library'. There you will see a list of the books we have, with the

email address of the person who is happy to lend you the book. What you need to

do is to click on that persons email address and write to them privately

telling them which book(s) you would like to borrow and ask for their Home Address

to enable you to send them (in stamps) the cost of postage, which works out at

£2.80 per book.

Once that person receives the stamps, they will send the book(s)

to you. Try not to keep them longer than 4 weeks as others may be waiting to

borrow them too, but if you do need them for longer, make absolutely sure you

tell that member so they are not left wondering what has happened to them.

Hope this helps.

There were a couple of members recently wanting to borrow some

books from me and you were going to send the required stamps for posting them

on, but I never received the stamps. If this was you and you still want the

book(s) please would you contact me.

Luv - Sheila

The worst thing is the brain fuzz, lack of concentration and poor memory on top

of all physical probs - sound a right old moaner dont I - sorry!!

I am going to see my doc and ask him about new blood tests and see what he says

about NDT - worth asking at least. Also going to see if I can get copy of book

too - thank you so much for taking the time to write all this reply.

C

_

[Guest guest]

Hi Colleen,

I am so sorry to hear that you are suffering so............we all know how you feel.

I was crippled with pain hardly able to walk - screaming in agony with each step (my pelvis was out of alignment which I found out later) - this all went when I got my thyroid meds sorted AND took HC (cortisol) - the reason I am writing today is that I tried to reduce my cortisol yesterday by 1/4 because I am being told it is bad for me and I am hardly able to move this morning - in agony again - pains in my ankles and knees and my groin - it is amazing. I firmly believe that arthritis - including rheumatoid are low cortisol (adrenal issues).

I was told that I was very low on cortisol - and have been taking it for 3 years now and feel great on it - energy - no pelvis or back pain etc. - today reminded me how bad it was.

You have to way up the fact that being on HC or long periods of time can have issues BUT not as many issues as a drug (HC is natural at least).and some of the ones they are giving you have awful side effects I daresay.

I would try to see Dr P and see if you can't get some help for your hormone levels - you can be better than you are now and I wish you all the very best.

http://drlarsen.com/lower-back-adrenal-glands-and-chronic-pain

Best wishes

Mandy

[Guest guest]

Hello Colleen,No I dont take steriods - I take methotrexate (immune suppressant). The onlytime I have had steriods is when a couple of bad infections would not clear up -and some steriod injections into joints. Have had loads of drugs over theyears to help but now stick to methotrexate and codeine for pain relief(arthritis does indeed make you miserable unfortunately).

You poor thing must be really suffering badly from arthritis to take methotrexate L. I don't know this drug, but it made frightening reading when I googled it. Please do give Dr. ' recommendation some serious thought and discuss it with your rheum. Personally I would rather give the regimen of natural thyroid extract plus a mini-dose of steroids a try than take those really heavy synthetic drugs. Steroids are nothing to be scared of in physiological dosages. They only get scary when you have to take them in therapeutic or immune-suppressive dosages over a long term. Cortisol is a hormone that our adrenals produce, because it vital for life; without it we die. So please do not let your rheum put you off the idea by using scare tactics. A physiological dose of prednisolone (i.e. 5 mg) would not give you those scary side effects that higher dosages would give you. Although one should never take steroids unnecessarily, you could take 5 mg preds indefinitely without doing any damage to the system..... unlike the drugs you are currently taking. Furthermore, in combination with Erfa thyroid this might give you all the benefits I pointed out yesterday. Although there is no guarantee, to my mind it would be worth a try, particularly since neither your thyroid nor your arthritis and psoriasis are currently effectively medicated by the sounds of it. Very few doctors are prepared to prescribe Erfa thyroid, but you could offer to buy it yourself – it costs around £ 100 for 500 pills of the 1 grain strength, which would last you about 6 months or longer, depending on the amount you would need. If you have not already done that, please read all about natural desiccated thyroid extract in our files (Armour or Erfa Thyroid).

As for vit D, I wasgiven calcichew (2 a day) plus I take one Vit D 400 iu per day - is that enough?My doc said that he cannot give me prescription for Vit D so just to buy some. Last blood test showed it had gone to 30 or 40 I think so he said just keeptaking tabs.

In a word – no. You would need to take a lot more D3... at least 1000 iu per day, better 2000 iu or even more. Some people here take 5000 iu per day, I take at present 4000 iu because my D3 level was at the bottom of the range last time we checked. A good level is around the 90-100 mark, I think.

I did take 150mcg thyroxine for a while but doc said my levels were too high andhad to go back to 125mcg.

And do you feel better on 125 than on 150 ? I would imagine that your doc made you go down with the dosage because your TSH was "within the norm range" without any consideration for FT4 or FT3 – right? This is the classic mistake. There is no way on earth to manage the level of thyroid meds on the basis of the TSH alone. The TSH is a pituitary hormone, not a thyroid hormone. The correct way to adjust the amount of thyroid medication is by measuring the FT4 and FT3 – both should be in the upper third of their respective ref ranges. It does not matter one hoot whereabouts the TSH is, as long as it is low – suppressed even. You are not at risk of over-supplementation as long as the FT4 and FT3 are within the ref range – regardless of TSH.

As for blood pressure, I never had any trouble until one of the immunesuppressants upset it about 5 years ago - once started it doesnt stopunfortunately so not thyroid that caused that.

As I said, switching to Erfa thyroid should (hopefully) normalize the BP.....

The worst thing is the brain fuzz, lack of concentration and poor memory on topof all physical probs - sound a right old moaner dont I - sorry!!

You moan away J... that's what this forum is there for, to let off steam and to gain information. You have got brain fog and all the rest of it because most likely the Levothyroxine is not doing its job – without seeing your thyroid figures (with ref ranges, please) it's difficult to say what is going on, but you will need to ask your doc for all the minerals & vitamins that I had listed yesterday – if you were low in any of them, that would prevent the active thyroid hormone T3 from getting into the cells, where it is needed. Since you are not taking steroids, you also need to check your adrenal function...there is a questionnaire in the files – please fill it in and see how you fare.... and you need to check each of the other points I listed too.....

I am going to see my doc and ask him about new blood tests and see what he saysabout NDT - worth asking at least.

It's worth asking, but in all likelihood he will pooh-pooh the idea. You would not believe the rubbish some doctors come up with when talking about NDT – from "dirty pig thyroid" to "inconsistent strength" to downright "dangerous"....it's all total bullocks. But be prepared for that and do not let him put you off. Millions are regaining their health thanks to this totally safe and effective medication. Doctors haven't got a clue about NDT unless you find one who is hypothyroid him- or herself. Then they come crawling out of the woodwork asking for information about NDT when they suffer themselves and Levothyroxine doesn't do the job – else they do not want to know. Most have not even heard of it. In this country (unlike in the US) Armour thyroid is not licensed, therefore doctors would not be insured if they prescribed it. Furthermore, the Royal College of Physicians and the British Thyroid Association actively discourage doctors from prescribing it for reasons best known to themselves. However, doctors are allowed to prescribe NDT on NHS .... most do not even know that they are. But even when they know, they do not want to do it, because the wrath of the RCP or BTA might be heaped upon them .... this is why I say buy it yourself and just ask for monitoring. This way the doctor is off the hook and most are prepared to oblige. – btw, it might be better to talk about NDT & Preds with your rheum rather than the GP – perhaps you could even take Dr. book along and show him the references to NDT & Preds for treatment of thyroid/arthritis/psoriasis....it is totally safe approach without any risk of side effects – so perhaps he will have an open mind ??? But do ask your GP for the blood tests – you also want a FULL thyroid panel in addition to the minerals and vitamins – ask for TSH, FT4 , FT3 (which needs to be ordered specifically, or the lab will ignore the request) plus TPO and TgAB antibodies.

Also going to see if I can get copy of booktoo - thank you so much for taking the time to write all this reply.You're very welcome J - and as Sheila says, you can always use our library; although the books are not expensive – around a tenner each, I'd say. I use mine for references all the time; they are useful to have at hand.

Good luck at your next appointment,

[Guest guest]

Hi All

Thanks so much for your helpful posts - this week has been dreadful for me so please accept my apologies for not answering your posts and thank you so much. Have been in bed since Monday evening with a bug I think which just made all the symptoms of thyroid a 100 times worse-still no better but have managed to get an appointment in the morning with GP.

I am making a list of blood tests to ask for and hopefully you can let me know if I have all the right ones on it - otherwise it will be a waste of a few weeks!

Adrenal, Candida, Ferritin, Folate, Zinc, Copper, Magneium, Vit D3, Vit B12 FT4 FT3and TSH TPO and TgAB antibodies. I think I saw something about selinium here? I can just see his face when I give him this list!!!!!!!

I get so frustrated with myself for being so low, etc and not having the energy to do things. My arthritis is bad in that my joints are badly worn in shoulders neck and back (lots of xrays and scans over the yeasrs) - but I think the thryoid problem causes aches and pains over the rest of me! If it was just the arthritis alone I could cope with that as it doesnt have all the horrible side effects like this dreaded thyroid - just pain which can be controlled most of the time. I researched diets years ago and found they sometimes work for RA but not PSA unfortunately - I dont eat much red meat etc though just in case!

I have put off having my new injections as I think any more side effects of meds at the moment will just kill me off completely! For the past four days I havent even been able to get out of the house let alone drive etc. so am really not well. I am even off food and tea - which is so unlike me as I exist on about 20-30 cups a day. Hold on while I scream please!!!

Once the results are back I will let you know them and perhaps you could kindly advise again - I cant wait to be "normal" again. Heres hoping!!!!

Thank you all for being so kind understanding and so helpful.

Colleen xxx

From: <christina@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Sun, 6 March, 2011 13:56:52Subject: Re: HI - ANOTHER NEWBIE

Hello Colleen,No I dont take steriods - I take methotrexate (immune suppressant). The onlytime I have had steriods is when a couple of bad infections would not clear up -and some steriod injections into joints.

[Guest guest]

Hi Shelia

Have been to docs and had blood tests - a long list of them on the form when I

went to hospital. I phoned docs surgery Fri to see if results were in and was

told yes 3. 2 were " OK " and one was " see doc " . Here we go again, " normal " !! I

was wondering if before I get an appointment (which is a task in itself with our

surgery) do I ask him about going on NT or ask to see an endo? My rheumy did

send me to one quite a few years ago (Dr H at North Middlesex in North London)

but she was not very helpful, friendly or nice! Had a 24 urine sample and some

bloods, and she sent me back to rheumy saying probably diabetes inspidus and

take thyroxine as rec by GP! When I posted a few weeks ago I had 4 days where I

couldnt even get out of bed with feeling awful and so painful but that has

mostly subsided now. I am just about managing to get out (only if I drive

somewhere or on mobilty scooter) and am going to start my Humira injections next

week when they arrive for my arthritis as I cant cope with it all. A lot of

what I have is caused by psoriatic arthritis (xrays prove it)and it causes

problems with skin, tendons, ligaments and joints etc etc but I still think my

underactive thryoid causes a lot of problems that I could get rid of but docs

although friendly and nice just smile and sympathise with me!! I need

ammunition as they are so nice and I dont want to offend them and they are

trying so much to help me. What do you rec - asking GP for NT or do I just ask

to see another endo (could you recommend a helpful one please if so).

Thank you thank you thank you in advance. It is so nice to know I am not the

only one and not imagining these symptoms. It is bad enough not being to move

about but if I cant think straight it drives me mad - literally!!!!

Colleen

]

>

> Hello Colleen

>

> You don't have to buy the books mentioned. TPA has its very own

> lending library and you have quite a few books which some of our members are

[Guest guest]

HI there, 3.2 is not normal. normal in below 1.0. most doctors think that this test is a normal range, when actually it is a reference interval.have you had a TPOab test(looking for auto-antibodies) if not insist that they do one Asap. be firm and say that you will not leave the surgry untilhe agrees to this. Angel. who has been told that she is normal. i now take 4 grains natural hormones and many supplements for hashi`s and RA and some sort of dermatitis, also Meniere`s(autoimmune ear disease.

"The problem I have found is that too often women are told their thyroid is normal without having the complete thyroid tests done. Of course, what most people, and many physicians, don't realize is that...a 'normal range' on a laboratory report is just that: a range. A given person may require higher or lower levels to feel well and to function optimally. I think we must look at the lab results along with the clinical picture described by the patient...I have a series of more than a hundred patients, all but two are women, who had a normal TSH and turned out to have significantly elevated thyroid antibodies that meant they needed thyroid medication in order to feel normal. This type of oversight is particularly common with a type of

thyroid disease called thyroiditis, which is about 25 times more common in females than males...a woman may experience the symptoms of disease months to years before TSH goes up..."

[Guest guest]

Have been to docs and had blood tests - a long

list of them on the form when I went to hospital. I phoned docs surgery Fri to

see if results were in and was told yes 3. 2 were " OK " and one was

" see doc " . Here we go again, " normal " !! I was wondering if

before I get an appointment (which is a task in itself with our surgery) do I

ask him about going on NT or ask to see an endo? My rheumy did send me to one

quite a few years ago (Dr H at North Middlesex in North London) but she was not

very helpful, friendly or nice!

Telephone your surgery and tell them that you will be calling in

to collect your blood test results on such and such a date and that you want

the results together with the reference range for each of the tests done.

Doctors are not allowed to withhold such results from you. Be assertive about

this, and let them know you will not accept anybody telling you that your

results are 'normal' therefore inferring you do not have a problem.

I would not ask the GP for Natural thyroid extract - doubtful

they would give you a prescription without sending you to an endocrinologist. I

will send you a list of my 'good' endocrinologists recommended by our members

who will prescribe using either synthetic T4/T3 combination, T3 alone or

natural thyroid extract and you can ask your GP to refer you to the one of your

choice. You are allowed to go outside of your area if there is not somebody who

specialises in thyroid - most of the endocrinologists have a speciality in

diabetes - and know little about thyroid disease.

Often the best way to get such a referral is to write a letter

to your GP giving the name of the doctor you wish to see and simply asking them

for a referral for a second opinion.

The only alternative Colleen is to take your thyroid health into

your own hands if your GP refuses to refer you, and see a private doctor where

you don't have to be referred. Any chance you could see our wonderful Dr

Peatfield?

Luv - Sheila

What do you rec - asking GP for NT or do I just

ask to see another endo (could you recommend a helpful one please if so).

Thank you thank you thank you in advance. It is so nice to know I am not the

only one and not imagining these symptoms. It is bad enough not being to move

about but if I cant think straight it drives me mad - literally!!!!

Colleen

,_._,___

[Guest guest]

Thanks for taking the time to answer Sheila - I can see you are so busy answering everyone I dont know where you get the time!! Thank you.

Unfortunately I couldnt afford your Dr P - although I have already got his book (bought about 4 years ago) and this was the main reason I questioned my T4 treatment previously and was told, you guessed it(!), all these books people write for money nowadays etc etc and all a load of tosh, just to make money, etc. etc. But years down the line now I am almost positive the T4 isnt working so if you could recommend a good endo to ask for a referral to, I am sure my GP will be glad to see the back of me over this part of my treatment-even after asking the other week for blood tests when I said the T4 wasnt working, he asked me what my rheumy thought!! A lovely man - but still just a GP! I have car so can travel if a good endo is a distance away so that is no problem. My poor husband puts up with so much he will be so pleased if I could get treatment for this -

he puts up with me being miserable so often! The dogs (and cats) and kids are treated much better than him some days!

Thanks a lot for taking your time to read and answer.

Colleen