Re: Cant take HC or NT anymore!

[Guest guest]

Hi Leisa

I'm really sorry to hear you are feeling so poorly and having such a hard time.

Sorry, I don't have any knowledge to help, I'm afraid (if you remember, I'm

still struggling to increase T3 myself due to low ferritin and I get so lost

with it all?!).

Just wanted to say I am thinking of you and hope someone can offer you some

advice very soon and you feel better.

Love

Liesha

...........The really weird thing is i have been taking HC for quite a long time

and was taking around 35mg and it is having the same effect now! For the last

few days ive only managed to take 2.5 twice a day as anymore makes me feel mad.

Im just taking this tiny amount as i know its dangerous to stop a high dose of

HC suddenly. So at the mo im taking no thyroid and just a tiny bit of HC, that

i have to wait to wear off so i can get dressed.

> Thanks

> Love Leisa

>

[Guest guest]

what natural dose were you on ?

Not tolerating the T3 sounds like an adrenal problem.

i wonder if you had gone into HIGH cortisol mode which is similar to low

cortisol. it is a good idea to reduce down, but i would try going down to 20mg

and see how you get on.

you need to find that window where the thyroid and adrenals are happy. one puts

the other out. too much T3 can cause the adrenals to stress. to much cortisol

or too little and stop thyroid absorption.

So reduce down the cortisol and see how the thyroid dosing goes, but using less

T3. it will be good to see what you were on for this though.

any bloods ?

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for your reply. The most NT ive been on is 2 and a half but lately i was

finding it hard to tolerate 1 and a half. When you say high cortisol mode, do

you mean ive been taking too much cortisol (32.5) and its pooled or that my

adrenals have suddenly started making too much? I would like to take 20mg but

at the moment even 2.5mg is making me feel awful. Maybe ill be able to increase

in a few days. I dont have very up to date results just now, but i should get a

thyroid test kit tomorrow. Heres my last few results

This is my last thyroid results - about 4 months ago on 2 NT and 12.5 T3

Total Throxine - 41.6 (58-154)

TSH - 0.012 (0.4-4.0)

FT4 - 8.04 (10-22)

FT3 - 3.9(2.8-6.5)

FT4 - FT3 Ratio - 2.1(2.0-4.5)

RT3 - 0.32(0.14-0.54)

TG - 20(0-40)

TPO - 10(0-35)

24 Hour thyroid urine results before any treatment

T3 - 459(592 - 1850)

T4 - 219(347 - 1994)

T3:T4 Ratio - 2.1(0.50 - 2.00

Adrenal results

Sample 1 Post Awakening - 6.9(12-22)

Sample 2 (+ 4 - 5 Hours) - 2.9(5.0-9.0)

Sample 3 (+ 4 - 5 Hours) - 0.7(3.0-7.0)

Sample 4 (Prior to Sleep) - 0.5(1.0-3.0)

Total Daily Cortisol - 11.0(21-41 nmol/L)

DHEA Levels

Sample 2 (am) - 0.58(0.40-1. 47)

Sample 3 (pm) - 0.38(0.40-1. 47)

DHEA : Cortisol Ratio - 4.36(2.0-6.0)

My ferritin is low at 27 but ive been supplementing the last year so hope its

come up.

My vitamin D was 10(51-163)been supplementing the last year.

Im thinking of possibly trying just T4 to see how i cope with that, although

thats not ggoing to work if like Dr P thinks i have a conversion problem. Im

totally lost with what to do! Thanks for your advice.

Love Leisa

>

> what natural dose were you on ?

>

> Not tolerating the T3 sounds like an adrenal problem.

>

> i wonder if you had gone into HIGH cortisol mode which is similar to low

cortisol. it is a good idea to reduce down, but i would try going down to 20mg

and see how you get on.

>

> you need to find that window where the thyroid and adrenals are happy. one

puts the other out. too much T3 can cause the adrenals to stress. to much

cortisol or too little and stop thyroid absorption.

>

> So reduce down the cortisol and see how the thyroid dosing goes, but using

less T3. it will be good to see what you were on for this though.

>

> any bloods ?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Liesha

Thank you for your kind reply. Yeah i remember you were struggling with T3

aswell. I hope youre getting on better with it now. I wish it was all simple

and that we got the help we need from the NHS! Hope youre doing ok and managing

to increase your T3.

Take care

Love Leisa

> I'm really sorry to hear you are feeling so poorly and having such a hard

time.

>

> Sorry, I don't have any knowledge to help, I'm afraid (if you remember, I'm

still struggling to increase T3 myself due to low ferritin and I get so lost

with it all?!).

>

> Just wanted to say I am thinking of you and hope someone can offer you some

advice very soon and you feel better.

>

> Love

> Liesha

>

>

[Guest guest]

EDITED TO REMOVE THE MESSAGES PREVIOUSLY READ. PLEASE CHECK YOU HAVE DONE THIS

BEFORE CLICKING 'SEND'. LUV - SHEILA

_____________________________________________________________

Your total T4 level is very low and this indicates you are low on thyroid

hormones. The FT4 is very low too.

So i would say you need more T4, but it also looks like you have an absorption

problem as well. You have very low cortisol levels you see. iron is low as

well.

This is why you feel so bad and you need to look at taking lots of nutritional

supps as well. Your body is just not working and even adding hormones doesnt

seem to be doing that much.

i have to go out now but i will reply later on.

What supplements do you take

>

> Hi

>

> Thanks for your reply. The most NT ive been on is 2 and a half but lately i

was finding it hard to tolerate 1 and a half. When you say high cortisol mode,

do you mean ive been taking too much cortisol (32.5) and its pooled or that my

adrenals have suddenly started making too much? I would like to take 20mg but

at the moment even 2.5mg is making me feel awful. Maybe ill be able to increase

in a few days. I dont have very up to date results just now, but i should get a

thyroid test kit tomorrow. Heres my last few results

>

>

[Guest guest]

I would give T4 only a try because this is the easiest form of thyroid to

tolerate if adrenals are poor.

I would also take iodine, selenium, magnesium, vit c and nutri adrenal extra.

I take 20mg HC, but if i miss my 2 NAE's then i feel the difference.

I was on 25 Hc in nov and i had a wobble. It turns out i was on too much HC and

it was making me hypo. I found this out by reducing one day and felt much

better. but i went down too low to 15mg and started to feel worse. I tried

upping the dose and at 20mg i feel good.

So this shows you what a balancing act using HC can be. it can be the same with

the thyroid hoprmones as well.

Recently i have messed around with my T4/T3 amounts and have upped the T4 and

decreased the T3

Have you read Dr myhills website about ME. I think there is a lot of good info

on there.

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I think i will give T4 a try and see if

i cope with that any better. Im just so confused why im not tolerating HC just

now, when im not taking any thyroid meds as i took it for a couple of months

before i first started NT and it made me feel better.

It is interesting what you said about going hypo when you were on too much HC.

I never knew about this and i guess i might have been on too much HC. Im going

to retest my adrenals soon to see what kind of state theyre in.

I take magnesium, vit d, vit c, selenium, b12, iron, liquorice, ashwangda and

ginseng.

Thank you for your advice

Take care

Leisa

>

> I would give T4 only a try because this is the easiest form of thyroid to

tolerate if adrenals are poor.

>

> I would also take iodine, selenium, magnesium, vit c and nutri adrenal extra.

>

> I take 20mg HC, but if i miss my 2 NAE's then i feel the difference.

>

> I was on 25 Hc in nov and i had a wobble. It turns out i was on too much HC

and it was making me hypo. I found this out by reducing one day and felt much

better. but i went down too low to 15mg and started to feel worse. I tried

upping the dose and at 20mg i feel good.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi

>

> Thanks for your reply. The most NT ive been on is 2 and a half but lately i

was finding it hard to tolerate 1 and a half. When you say high cortisol mode,

do you mean ive been taking too much cortisol (32.5) and its pooled or that my

adrenals have suddenly started making too much? I would like to take 20mg but

at the moment even 2.5mg is making me feel awful. Maybe ill be able to increase

in a few days. I dont have very up to date results just now, but i should get a

thyroid test kit tomorrow. Heres my last few results

>

> This is my last thyroid results - about 4 months ago on 2 NT and 12.5 T3

>

> Total Throxine - 41.6 (58-154)

> TSH - 0.012 (0.4-4.0)

> FT4 - 8.04 (10-22)

>

> FT3 - 3.9(2.8-6.5)

> FT4 - FT3 Ratio - 2.1(2.0-4.5)

> RT3 - 0.32(0.14-0.54)

You have reverse T3 problem, and adding T4 it make your worse

FT3/RT3 should be greater then 20. Your case 3.9/0.32 = 12.18

More about this http://www.thyroid-rt3.com/howisit.htm

>

> TG - 20(0-40)

> TPO - 10(0-35)

>

> 24 Hour thyroid urine results before any treatment

>

> T3 - 459(592 - 1850)

> T4 - 219(347 - 1994)

> T3:T4 Ratio - 2.1(0.50 - 2.00

>

> Adrenal results

>

> Sample 1 Post Awakening - 6.9(12-22)

> Sample 2 (+ 4 - 5 Hours) - 2.9(5.0-9.0)

> Sample 3 (+ 4 - 5 Hours) - 0.7(3.0-7.0)

> Sample 4 (Prior to Sleep) - 0.5(1.0-3.0)

> Total Daily Cortisol - 11.0(21-41 nmol/L)

>

> DHEA Levels

> Sample 2 (am) - 0.58(0.40-1. 47)

> Sample 3 (pm) - 0.38(0.40-1. 47)

> DHEA : Cortisol Ratio - 4.36(2.0-6.0)

>

> My ferritin is low at 27 but ive been supplementing the last year so hope its

> come up.

> My vitamin D was 10(51-163)been supplementing the last year.

>

> Im thinking of possibly trying just T4 to see how i cope with that, although

thats not ggoing to work if like Dr P thinks i have a conversion problem. Im

totally lost with what to do! Thanks for your advice.

>

> Love Leisa

>

Do you have any temperatures/pulse? Basal and daily average(to see how adrenals

working).

How to do daily temperature

http://www.drrind.com/therapies/metabolic-temperature-graph

You aslo need full iron panel, to see how much iron you can take. Ferritin alone

is not enough.

[Guest guest]

When i tried ashwanga with the hc it really made things go worse. what i have

realised is not to take adaptogens when using hc. Everything else can cock it

all up.

What about try dropping the ashwanga and licorice and see how you get on the hc

only. i just wonder if these are making you worse.

All the other vits are great for you though.

Dont worry about RT3 because in your case i dont think it is relevant. yes you

have high RT3 but this is not due to having too much T4. It is a case of not

absorbing the hormone very well and so you develop RT3. You need to get to the

cause to slove this one. Yes your RT3 will probably go up on T4 but if you cant

handle T3 what can you do ?

In order to handle T3 you need to work on the adrenals and then you will be able

to use T4 and /or T3. So go with the increased T4 for now and focus on the

adrenals.

Do you have some waking temps and some averages for the day ? These are

important for you to monitor how the body is doing. The base temp is great to

tell us how the thyroid is doing. Ideally it wants to be at 36.4-36.6C.

[Guest guest]

Hi again

Yeah i do think its an absorption problem. I know my adrenals are a problem but

ive been on such a varied amount of HC(from 15-40) at different times i think

they are only part of my problem. Ive never had a full iron panel so i will

hopefully get the GP to do that and my ferritin again. I increased my iron from

50mg to 150mg and im wondering if that had anything to do with me feeling so

awful on the NT, maybe i suddenly started absorbing NT and there was too much in

my body? I know b12 and d3 can affect absorption, my b12 is ok but my d3 was

very low last time i tested it. Ill try and get my GP to test my D3 but i think

he told me they dont test it last time i asked. I read mercury poisoning will

stop absorption too, do you know of anything else that could be stopping it?

My temps at the moment are between 35.9-36.1 when i wake up and go up and down

through the day between 36.5 and 37.

Ive managed to take 2.5 of HC today and havent felt as bad as i have after

taking it the last few days.

Thanks very much for your help

Take care

Love Leisa

>

> Dont worry about RT3 because in your case i dont think it is relevant. yes

you have high RT3 but this is not due to having too much T4. It is a case of

not absorbing the hormone very well and so you develop RT3. You need to get to

the cause to slove this one. Yes your RT3 will probably go up on T4 but if you

cant handle T3 what can you do ?

>

> In order to handle T3 you need to work on the adrenals and then you will be

able to use T4 and /or T3. So go with the increased T4 for now and focus on the

adrenals.

>

> Do you have some waking temps and some averages for the day ? These are

important for you to monitor how the body is doing. The base temp is great to

tell us how the thyroid is doing. Ideally it wants to be at 36.4-36.6C.

>

[Guest guest]

How many fillings do you have ? If a lot they may be affecting toxicity.

This board is good and has lots of info there. this link is to metal toxocoty :

http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=2 & t=7593

The things which affect absorption that i know of, you know i think : iron, b12,

vit d, cortisol, metals, sodium/potassium levels.

How are you helping the adrenals ? This is what i would do. You need to take

in more salt each day by drinking it with tomatoe juice for example. The

adrenals just love salt and soak it up. Try and eat bananas or rasins to keep

potassium up as well. Take 5000mgs vit C per day. The nutri adrenal extra

tablets are very good and you can get a discount through TPA when buying. Then

of course there is the HC.

While you are now almost off the HC i would try and stay off for 2 weeks so you

can do another saliva test. this will be very useful.

Your temps are low in the morning, so this says thyroid problem. AND they are

unstable in the day so this is adrenal. Now the question is are you low on

thyroid because you cant absorb it all ? Yes, but i also think you are low on

the overall amount of thyroid in your system.

So you need to focus on getting the adrenals in better shape. At the same time

you could add in a bit more T4 as you said you may do and you are very low in

this overall.

If you do start to pick up you could try adding in small amounts of T3 - say

start on 2 x 5mg a day. Do the first dose and see if it makes things worse or

not and then continue with the afternoon dose.

Plot temp in a diary to monitor how you are getting on.

This will not be an overnight job, but it is doable. For me to get well it has

taken 2 full yrs and i was ill for 15 before that. My adrenals were no way as

bad as your though. My overall cortisol level wass 22, so at the bottom of the

range but it should be higher for a male anyway).

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thanks for replying again, sorry about the delay, my internet has been being

insane!

Ill have a look at that board you suggested. I have loads of fillings! I went

to the dentist after the being bedbound for the first three year and needed 21

fillings! She said she'd seen that quite often in people with chronic

illnesses. I could never afford to have them removed so ill look into any other

options

I sent off blood for a thyroid test on Friday so hopefully that will be low

enough for my GP to prescribe me some T4, to see if i get on better with that.

Youre right it would be a good idea to get my adrenals tested just now, ill put

it on my credit card and worry about it later!

I have been able to take about 10mg HC the last couple of days without it making

me feel awful but i can actually feel my adrenals being sore.

I really want to do this properly this time as i seem to have made a mess of it

the last 18 months ive been trying it. I might even see if i can see an nhs

endo, although im quite scared of them!

Thank you so much for your advice and encouragement!

Take care

Love Leisa

>

> How many fillings do you have ? If a lot they may be affecting toxicity.

>

> This board is good and has lots of info there. this link is to metal toxocoty

: http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/viewtopic.php?f=2 & t=7593

>

> While you are now almost off the HC i would try and stay off for 2 weeks so

you can do another saliva test. this will be very useful.

>

> Your temps are low in the morning, so this says thyroid problem. AND they are

unstable in the day so this is adrenal. Now the question is are you low on

thyroid because you cant absorb it all ? Yes, but i also think you are low on

the overall amount of thyroid in your system.