Re: Advice on NAX etc please

[Guest guest]

Hello Jo - starting Nutri Adrenal Extra is pretty straight

forward 0 but remember that you should take 3/4000 mgs vitamin C daily with it

as well to help with absorption.

Go to our FILES section from here http://health./grouop.thyroid treatment

and click on FILES in the Menu. On the page that opens, click on 'Discounts on

Tests and Supplements'. On the page that opens, click on 'Nutri Ltd' and

following the instructions for buying NAE from them. By using the reference

code they give there, you can get a discount of 33% by being a member of

Thyroid Patient Advocacy.

You start by taking 1 tablet with breakfast - and 7 to 10

days after that, add another tablet with your lunch (with food always). Never

take after 1.00p.m. because the extra adrenaline might keep you awake.

After another 10 days, add another tablet with your breakfast.

You can increase your dose in this way until you find some of your symptoms are

going away.

After you take the first tablet - you can then add levothyroxine

on the 8th day - and take NAE and levothyroxine together after that. You can

take up to 6 NAE daily, but if you find your symptoms are not being helped,

this could be a sign you might need a short course of hydrocortisone.

I am delighted that your surgery is happy to give you a trial of

levothyroxine even though a patient's blood results might be within the so

called 'normal' reference range.

You may, however, be helped by taking some form of the active

thyroid hormone T3, but you first need to see whether the thyroxine (which is a

mainly inactive thyroid hormone) will convert to the active thyroid hormone T3

on its own. If it does, then fine, but if you continue to suffer symptoms, this

is something you might need to look into.

Obviously having such a low basal temperature is an indication

your metabolism is running too slow and the cause could be your hypothyroidism.

I would, if you continue with symptoms once you start the levothyroxine, ask your

GP to write a blood form for TSH and free T3 and to write

" ?hyperthyroidism " on the blood form, and that way, the laboratory

will test your blood for FT3. Norty, but a lot of doctors are happy to do this

for their patients when they know their local laboratory is refusing to test for

this.

Can't answer your last question, could be sheer coincidence or

it could be this is what your body has been screaming out for.

Luv - Sheila

Out of interest I checked my basal temperature over a few weeks before Christmas

and this came out consistently low at around 36.3 C in the morning before

rising and about 35.6 C in the evening.

I

also have consistently low blood pressure.

My doctor was concerned I was still so tired and offered to run some

thyroid tests and to check my ferritin levels etc. Unfortunately, the labs

in this area refused to do the requested FT3 and FT4 tests and won't do them

unless requested by a consultant and with a good indication from the other

tests

Please

could you advise:

1)

what the dosage is and how long you have to take NAX for before starting thyroxine?

2) Do you have to carry on taking it while on thyroxine?

Any other advice would be great.

P.S. I recently requested

steroid tablets as I have a flare up of my arthritis going on and have been

taking them for 3 days and feel much better, less stressed and with much better

energy. Is that a coincidence or could it be related to my adrenals/thyroid?

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo,

Do hold onto that gem of a doctor – he certainly has the right ideas J - and yes, many pioneers in the field of thyroid do believe that there is a very close connection between arthritis and thyroid disease. Thyroid hormones can relieve bone-, joint- and muscle troubles. Dr. E. Hertoghe , a distinguished Belgian clinician, urged his colleagues as far back as 1914 during his lectures to "think of a possible deficiency of the thyroid secretion" whenever they encountered patients with any of a long list of problems, not least those with "rheumatoid changes in the muscles, ligaments or tendons".

I assume that the immune-suppressant tablets you are taking are not steroids since you say you have requested steroid tablets for your RA.....

P.S. I recently requested steroid tablets as I have a flare up of my arthritis going on and have been taking them for 3 days and feel much better, less stressed and with much better energy. Is that a coincidence or could it be related to my adrenals/thyroid?No, this is not a co-incidence. I assume that you have been prescribed Prednisolone or Hydrocortisone, both of which are a glucocorticoid, and that will not only help to get down the inflammation of your RA, but will also help with the cortisol that your adrenals are supposed to produce, but probably won't produce in sufficient amounts... this is what adrenal support is all about – to give the adrenals a helping hand and restore them to former glory (i.e. make them function normally again). NAX will achieve this with the "natural way", preds or HC are the artillery. NAX can be taken indefinitely, if needed, without causing any side effects, Prednisolone or HC are a different matter. They are a steroid and the dosing with steroids is all about amounts and duration and you need to be careful.

First of all – please note that Prednisolone is 4 times as powerful as Hydrocortison (HC). 5 mg of Prednisolone = 20 mg of HC. This is extremely important to remember. They both do the same job, only HC is not stored by the body but used up straight away, which is why it needs to be taken in split dosages up to 4 times a day. Prednisolone does get stored in the body and is active for 24 hours – hence it is only taken once a day, usually in the mornings.

Another important thing to remember about those steroids is dosages and duration of treatment: up to 30 mg of HC or 7.5 mg of Prednisolone are on average (there are exceptions) a `safe' physiological dosage. Anything more than that and you venture into therapeutic dosages, and then it's a whole different ball game. Physiological dosages – according to Dr. Petfield and others – can be taken without doing harm or shutting down the adrenal function for as long as needed. Therapeutic dosages of Prednisolone (10 mg/day - or considerably more, as needed) are given for a short period of time to knock an acute inflammation on the head. On a therapeutic dosage people usually feel great and pain free for about a week.... but thereafter unwanted side effects may kick in. Because therapeutic dosages of steroids will have the effect of (temporarily) shutting down the adrenal function, the patient will have to very slowly reduce the dosage after a course of steroids – stopping the tablets abruptly can cause serious health problems.

Please could you advise:

1) what the dosage is and how long you have to take NAX for before starting thyroxine?

2) Do you have to carry on taking it while on thyroxine?

Since you are currently taking some steroids for your RA, this will double up as adrenal support, but you can take NAX in addition and carry on with that for as long as you need it when the current course of steroids is over. Start with 1 NAX with your breakfast and if you feel you need more you can up the dose to 1 with breakfast and another 1 with lunch after about 2 weeks. You can up the dosage – if you feel you need it – to 6 tablets per day, but never take them after 1 pm or you might have trouble sleeping at night.

I would start with thyroxine after about 7 days on adrenal support.

Your B12 ref range looks a bit strange (180-2000) – usually the upper range is around the 900 mark - but if this is correct, you could do with some B12. Your platelets are low and your haemoglobin is low too, so supplementing B12 might help. The best B12 is from Solgar and you take it sublingually (they taste nice J)

http://www.solgar.co.uk/product/vitamin-b-12-1000ug-nuggets-250-E3230.html 250 nuggets

http://www.solgar.co.uk/product/vitamin-b-12-1000ug-nuggets-100-E3229.html 100 nuggets

I hope your GP will agree to check the other parameters too... I would in any case start supplementing D3 a well. You are bound to be low after this winter and all your infections – Btw, if any of the thyroid antibodies (TPO or TgAB) come back positive, then that alone would be diagnostic for autoimmune thyroid disease.

One other thing.... even if you are not allergic to gluten, try to avoid it as much as possible or cut it out totally – you will feel a whole lot better and have less arthritic pain.

I hope this helps a little,

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

Thank you so much for the info. I have bought NAX via the discount setup for my daughter in the past and think it is high time I got some for myself! I know my adrenals have taken a bashing and think there are a few others in the family that appear to have the same problems. I am currently on 3 x Prednisole for a week and then reducing to two and then one tablet. It will be interesting to see what effect it has on me as the dose reduces.I feel great! I haven't had this kind of energy and upbeat mood for ages and my rheumatoid arthritis flare up has quickly subsided. I would quite happily stay on them if it were safe to do so but I gather there is a lot of adverse opinion about their side effects. I expect it is the same for hydrocortisone as they are both steroids but I will see what I can find about it all on the website and in the files. I suppose NAX is the safe long-term alternative and hope it has a similar effect.Is it normal to carry on taking NAX forever while you are taking thyroxine or NT?My daughter is taking NAX and Nutri Thyroid with Vit C, iron and CoQ10 at the moment and is a lot better but a long way off being right and she is somewhat erratic about the

whole thing but I am hoping she might fare better if she has some medical supervision. I know really that she needs to take responsibility for herself but she is sick of the whole thing and with taking tablets and not getting properly better so it is a vicious circle at the moment. Thanks again :)LoveJo> You start by taking 1 tablet with breakfast - and 7 to 10 days after that,> add another tablet with your lunch (with food always). Never take after> 1.00p.m. because the extra adrenaline might keep you awake.

[Guest guest]

Hi and thanks for all the information.

It is great to get support from everyone as I have been

grappling with my daughter's hypothyroidism for ages and it stresses me out to

the point where I can't think straight or retain information. The family don't

really understand and I am conscious that they don't really want to hear it all

yet again!

My daughter is not getting any help from her GP and is

rejecting the whole thing at the moment and says she hates taking the tablets.

She is tired, muddly and has a really bad memory as well as disabling anxiety

but is better than she was. She finds it hard to remember to take the tablets

and temperature etc due to all this as well.

We really need to go and see Dr P again to get her back on

track and encourage her to stick with it. She is currently taking NAX, iron,

CoQ10, Vit C, Nutri Thyroid but is pretty erratic. She is lots better than she

was but miles from being right.

I am going to ask her GP if she will prescribe a trial

course of thyroxine for her and, if not, I hope she will move over to my GP who will do that for her.

>

> I assume that the immune-suppressant tablets you are taking are not

> steroids since you say you have requested steroid tablets for your

> RA.....

> The immunosuppressants I take are methotrexate and leflunomide, both

high risk nasty drugs!

I assume that you have been prescribed Prednisolone or

Hydrocortisone I am taking Prednisolone 5mg x 3 for 1 week then reducing

the dose for 2 weeks but will be getting myself some NAX this week!

I will ask the GP to check the ref range for the B12 and get

some supplements anyway. I was wondering about magnesium citrate too and where

to get a good product from as I think my daughter would benefit from this. I

will also request the antibodies tests and anything else I can get done, labs

permitting.

Thanks for the links and I will get myself organised this

week and see if I can get myself firing on a few more cylinders. Having had a

taste of feeling good, I want more of it!

All the best

Love, Jo

[Guest guest]

Hi

Do you know of a good source of magnesium citrate powder to aid sleep

problems? I read somewhere on the forum recently that it is really good

stuff but I don't know if it is variable in quality.

Thanks

jo

[Guest guest]

would magnesium oil help? You can buy it either on a spray on form or form for

the bath http://www.revital.co.uk/BetterYou_Magnesium_Oil_Soak

the sport version of mag oil is in the penny sale at H+Barrett...

http://www.revital.co.uk/product_search.cfm?searchString=magnesium+oil & x=9 & y=11

there's also epsom salts

don't know if either might help

chris

>

> Hi

> Do you know of a good source of magnesium citrate powder to aid sleep

> problems? I read somewhere on the forum recently that it is really good

> stuff but I don't know if it is variable in quality.

> Thanks

> jo

[Guest guest]

> Do you know of a good source of magnesium citrate powder to aid sleep> problems?

Hi Jo,

I take Magasorb from Lamberts. They are pills and quite big whoppers as such, but I find them good (Lamberts has good products). They are 150 mg each and I usually take 4 a day, sometimes 5 if I need to calm down palps.

http://www.yournutritionshop.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes & sppp=20 & page=1 & Keyword=magasorb & category=ALL & highprice= & lowprice= & allwords=magasorb & exact= & atleast= & without= & cprice= & searchfields=

If you or your daughter have difficulties swallowing the pills, Magnesium Spray might be an option. I have never tried it, but it is a good way of absorbing Magnesium (through the skin). Spray will, however, work out more expensive, because you would need a lot of 'pumps' to achieve the equivalent mgs.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Jo

If you buy from yournutritionshop, remember you can get a get ten perc ent

discount if you use the TPA code:

DSC1210

http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/sE6GTbMFrK-jcR96ca7vW7wDIy2QlFvnISCRVVv3tCyfun0kse6\

RYoSFa-VK0bxJrYw5ymdILnXMkLRXCHbeVyS9jisBTVbGhKbsWys/DISCOUNTS%20ON%20SUPPLEMENT\

S%20and%20TESTS/Discount%20from%20Your%20Nutrition%20Shop.doc

> http://www.yournutritionshop.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes & sppp\

> =20 & page=1 & Keyword=magasorb & category=ALL & highprice= & lowprice= & allwords=m\

> agasorb & exact= & atleast= & without= & cprice= & searchfields

> <http://www.yournutritionshop.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes & spp\

>

[Guest guest]

Hi I have been having a trawl on the net and have found these UK sites for Magnesium citrate http://www.vitaminsuk.com/index.php?main_page=product_info & cPath=7_852 & products_id=3686 And http://www.jgsupplements.com/products/Magnesium-Citrate-227g-%288oz%29-Powder.html I did find a flavoured one, Natural Calm, that sounded good but more expensive and they have a lot of info too http://www.calmnatural.co.uk/magnesium-deficiency I think you can add your own flavours anyway as you are supposed to dissolve it in water. Just hope it doesn't taste foul! I don't know how reliable their info is bit it seems ok to me.My daughter has problems with big pills so think this may be the answer. I don't have sleep probs thankfully but I gather it helps the adrenals so may be helpful for me. My daughter has awful sleep problems, anxiety, panic attacks, fatigue and has heavy and very painful periods too and I think it is supposed to help with most of these symptoms as well as PMTI have heard that adding Epsom salts (magnesium sulphate) to a bath is good for absorbing through the skin too and can reduce inflammation. Could be good for my rheumatoid arthritis! There are some sources on Amazon with different essential oils but expect you could just add those to a plain epsom salt bath.I am learning more by the minute but just wish I could remember it all ha haIt would be interresting to hear of anyone else's experience of Magnesium citrate in powder formLoveJo > I take Magasorb from Lamberts. They are pills and quite big whoppers as> such, but I find them good (Lamberts has good products). They are 150> mg each and I usually take 4 a day, sometimes 5 if I need to calm down> palps.> http://www.yournutritionshop.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes & sppp\> =20 & page=1 & Keyword=magasorb & category=ALL & highprice= & lowprice= & allwords=m\> agasorb & exact= & atleast= & without= & cprice= & searchfields

[Guest guest]

You can get a 33% discount if you buy them through Nutri Ltd.

Check out the FOLDER in our Files section under 'Discounts on Tests and

Supplements and then open the Nutri Ltd document.

Luv - Sheila

Jo

If you buy from yournutritionshop, remember you can get a get ten perc ent

discount if you use the TPA code:

DSC1210

http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/sE6GTbMFrK-jcR96ca7vW7wDIy2QlFvnISCRVVv3tCyfun0kse6RYoSFa-VK0bxJrYw5ymdILnXMkLRXCHbeVyS9jisBTVbGhKbsWys/DISCOUNTS%20ON%20SUPPLEMENTS%20and%20TESTS/Discount%20from%20Your%20Nutrition%20Shop.doc

> http://www.yournutritionshop.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes & sppp\

> =20 & page=1 & Keyword=magasorb & category=ALL & highprice= & lowprice= & allwords=m\

> agasorb & exact= & atleast= & without= & cprice= & searchfields

> <http://www.yournutritionshop.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes & spp\

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo - your daughter might find the malate would work for her

better than the citrate. It is more difficult to dissolve in liquid to drink,

but she can sprinkle it happily on food. http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Life-Magnesium-Malate-Powder/dp/B000POUHCC

Luv - Sheila

My daughter has problems with big pills so think this may be the answer. I

don't have sleep probs thankfully but I gather it helps the adrenals so may be

helpful for me. My daughter has awful sleep problems, anxiety, panic attacks,

fatigue and has heavy and very painful periods too and I think it is supposed

to help with most of these symptoms as well as PMT

__

[Guest guest]

i thought you could only get discount from nutri on Nutri adrenal and thyroid,

not magnesium ?

>

> You can get a 33% discount if you buy them through Nutri Ltd. Check out the

> FOLDER in our Files section under 'Discounts on Tests and Supplements and

> then open the Nutri Ltd document.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

Ah! apologies that is correct.

Luv - Sheila

i thought you could only get discount from

nutri on Nutri adrenal and thyroid, not magnesium ?

>

> You can get a 33% discount if you buy them through Nutri Ltd. Check out

the

> FOLDER in our Files section under 'Discounts on Tests and Supplements and

> then open the Nutri Ltd document.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

> Jo

[Guest guest]

Jo - I am lucky with my daughter as she is " on the same page " as me with the

thyroid issue - my son however would need to be convinced by something other

than " mother " - i.e a good book or article. Just felt that your daughter might

need the same sort of convincing? I have also learnt somewhat painfully that I

can't always get through and they have to get there in their own time. Best of

luck

Pippa

-

>

> It is great to get support from everyone as I have been grappling with

> my daughter's hypothyroidism for ages and it stresses me out to the

> point where I can't think straight or retain information. The family

> don't really understand and I am conscious that they don't really want

> to hear it all yet again!

[Guest guest]

Hi there are different types of magnesium- one that is often recommended is magnesium orotate. Angel.

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

Does the malate get absorbed more easily or something then? I am not

familiar with any of the different types of magnesium or their uses so

advice and information is helpful. I would also prefer to order from the

UK to save postage and time right now so will have a look around for

this one. Jo

>

> Hi Jo - your daughter might find the malate would work for her better

than

> the citrate. It is more difficult to dissolve in liquid to drink, but

she

> can sprinkle it happily on food.

>

http://www.amazon.com/Natures-Life-Magnesium-Malate-Powder/dp/B000POUHCC

>

>

>

> __

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo - sorry, but I haven't the time to check this out for you

right now but if you type in magnesium malate powder UK into google you should

be able to find where you can buy this from in the UK and learn more about it.

Apologies, but I am about to go out. It is much easier to buy

the tablets than the powder.

Luv - Sheila

Does the malate get absorbed more easily or something then? I am not

familiar with any of the different types of magnesium or their uses so

advice and information is helpful. I would also prefer to order from the

UK to save postage and time right now so will have a look around for

this one. Jo

[Guest guest]

Hi Jo,

Light magnesium carbonate is the cheapest magnesium supplement to

purchase ~ Boots will order it in a 500gm container (quite big because

it's light and powdery).

Of that magnesium carbonate you'd need very little to obtain a good

night's sleep. Only a small amount, 10-20mg of the powder would be

enough to make a difference, and that small amount dissolves in stomach

acid and/or carbonated water.

Carbonated water is either " soda water " or other carbonated drink,

alcoholic, or otherwise.

Blowing through a straw into the water in a glass is enough to get a

small amount of light magnesium carbonate into solution (as the

bicarbonate).

Hence, the simplest school laboratory 'trick' is all that is necessary.

best wishes

Bob

-- In thyroid treatment , " jo203924 " <jounwin@...>

wrote:

>

>

> Hi Sheila

>

> Does the malate get absorbed more easily or something then? I am not

> familiar with any of the different types of magnesium or their uses so

[Guest guest]

Hi Bob

Is it just as effective but easier to just take some magnesium tablets

at bedtime to help sleep and are they as effective? This is for my

daughter and it needs to be pretty hassle free or she may give up! I was

just thinking it would be more easily absorbed if it was in solution but

more bother than tablets. What do you think?

Jo

>

> > Light magnesium carbonate is the cheapest magnesium supplement to

> purchase ~ Boots will order it in a 500gm container (quite big because

> it's light and powdery).

>

[Guest guest]

The trick I use is to break half a fizzy vit C tablet into water then

add a few miligrams of the light magnesium carbonate to that, whilst

it's still 'fizzing'.

If a magnesium tablet is made of magnesium oxide it is usually very

poorly absorbed.

The 'salt-like' tablets of (say) magnesium orotate have a better chance

of being absorbed.

Then again, it is better to use as little of them (between a quarter &

half) as possible at night, consistent with getting a good night's

sleep.

A visibly 'soluble' magnesium powder using as little acid as possible

(and CO2 is an acid in water) will provide just sufficient magnesium,

already in solution, that it will work very quickly.

Citric acid, ascorbic acid (vit C), tartaric acid or lactic acid can all

be obtained easily and will each of them dissolve light magnesium

carbonate.

There is a choice to use two components ~ each of them 'useful'

(magnesium and an acid that will be of benefit).

best wishes

Bob

>

>

> Hi Bob

>

> Is it just as effective but easier to just take some magnesium tablets

> at bedtime to help sleep and are they as effective? This is for my

> daughter and it needs to be pretty hassle free or she may give up! I

was

> just thinking it would be more easily absorbed if it was in solution

but

> more bother than tablets. What do you think?

>

> Jo