Re: Bluish lips and poor sleep?

January 7, 2011

On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:17:35 -0000, you wrote:

>After treating adrenal insufficiency (but I've stopped doing that) and having

thyroxine prescribed, I still have poor sleep, and bluish lips?

>

>Any ideas? Could these be deficiencies?

>

>I feel tired and cold at 9pm, fall asleep easily (if warm enough)around 11pm or

midnight usually, sleep reasonably well now till 3, 4 or 5 am (aroung 4 hours

generally), wide awake till 7am. Then if not going to work, could sleep from 7

to 8am (very rare though, I usually get up at 7am).

It's screaming adrenal at me

have a read of http://thyroid-rt3.com/adrenals.htm

Some average temperatures as per the Dr Rind link would be a way

forward

Nick

January 7, 2011

Hi, When treating both thyroid and adrenal insufficiency it is usual to start the adrenal support- then add in thyroid replacement, and not try to stop adrenal support until you feel really well. It need the thyroid to be working or replaced well to support the adrenal function- the whole endocrine system works together. Have you checked iron and other mineral and vit levels? > Subject: Re: Bluish lips and poor sleep?> > On Thu, 06 Jan 2011 15:17:35 -0000, you wrote:> > >After treating adrenal insufficiency (but I've stopped doing that) and having thyroxine prescribed, I still have poor sleep, and bluish lips?> >> >Any ideas? Could these be deficiencies?> >> >I feel tired and cold at 9pm, fall asleep easily (if warm enough)around 11pm or midnight usually, sleep reasonably well now till 3, 4 or 5 am (aroung 4 hours generally), wide awake till 7am. Then if not going to work, could sleep from 7 to 8am (very rare though, I usually get up at 7am).> > It's screaming adrenal at me> > have a read of http://thyroid-rt3.com/adrenals.htm> > Some average temperatures as per the Dr Rind link would be a way> forward> > Nick> > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

January 7, 2011

Dark circles under the eye is from IRON deficiency and I would put blue lips

under that catagory as well. Have you had any recent ferritin tests done?

Ferritin blood levels at best for women should be 120 and at best 150 for men.

Thinning eyebrows fall under IODINE deficiency.

Cheers,

JOT

January 9, 2011

what tests shall I have done My doc will support thre tests I want done at the

moment?

Ferritin

Iron?

Can you test for iodine and other vit levels?

January 9, 2011

We usually recommend getting ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3,

folate, magnesium, copper and zinc. Of that lot, you can test to see

whether you are low in zinc or not yourself by putting a zinc tablet in your

mouth and crunch it up. If you get a strong metallic taste, this shows a

shortage of zinc (which you can supplement with 15mgs tablets bought from a

health food store, but I believe you also need zinc and copper together) and if

it tastes like chalk, your zinc level is OK - so you could probably assume your

copper level would be reasonably OK too. So that's 2 down. They will

probably refuse to test your Vitamin D3 anyway (so that's 3 down). You could

probably get away with not having your magnesium level tested so that would

leave B12, ferritin (stored iron) is very important and folate. Why and how can

you doctor decide that he will ONLY give you three tests. Apparently saving

money is very much more important than saving your health. I would probably get

shirty with such a doctor and ask that he cite the references to the scientific

evidence that show that for those suffering the symptoms of hypothyroidism, low

levels of these important vitamins and minerals are NOT affected. Any one of

these being low in the reference range will stop thyroid hormone (your own or

synthetic) from getting into the cells.

Luv - Sheila

what tests shall I have done My doc will

support three tests I want done at the moment?

Ferritin

Iron?

Can you test for iodine and other vit levels?

January 9, 2011

Hi Sheila, OOPS! you've got it the wrong way round. You can only taste the zinc if you have sufficient levels- if you are low it just tastes chalky. thyroid treatment@...

W you can test to see

whether you are low in zinc or not yourself by putting a zinc tablet in your

mouth and crunch it up. If you get a strong metallic taste, this shows a

shortage of zinc (which you can supplement with 15mgs tablets bought from a

health food store, but I believe you also need zinc and copper together) and if

it tastes like chalk, your zinc level is OK

January 9, 2011

Bloomin' 'Eck!. That's the SECOND time I have got this wrong. Good

job I have you to keep an eye on me .

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila,

OOPS! you've got it the wrong way round. You can only taste the zinc if you

have sufficient levels- if you are low it just tastes chalky.

thyroid treatment@...

W you can

test to see whether you are low in zinc or not yourself by putting a zinc

tablet in your mouth and crunch it up. If you get a strong metallic taste, this

shows a shortage of zinc (which you can supplement with 15mgs tablets bought

from a health food store, but I believe you also need zinc and copper together)

and if it tastes like chalk, your zinc level is OK

January 9, 2011

Testing for Iodine is a bit hard, but there are two things you can do to check

levels. The first is a litmus paper test where you measure your levels through

your urine:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003NUVXNC? & tag=shopwiki-us-20 & linkCode=as2 & cam\

p=1789 & creative=9325

And the second test is sometimes unreliable but it worked fine for me when I

first did it....so it may just work for you, most people use this test. You

paint iodine on your thigh or inner arm in a square about 3 inches by 3 inches.

You can put it on with a Q-tip or cotton ball. It will be bright orange when you

paint it on the skin and allow it to dry. If the color fades quickly, your body

probably needs iodine. Within 24 hours if it is so faint you can hardly see it,

you need iodine supplementation. It's lugols iodine they're speaking about, not

the iodine which is in your first aid kit.

Lugol's iodine:

http://www.amazon.com/J-Crows-Lugols-Iodine-2-Liquid/dp/B001AEFM9Y/ref=sr_1_cc_1\

?ie=UTF8 & qid=1294598031 & sr=1-1-catcorr

Iodine Paint Test:

http://altmedangel.com/iodine.htm

Cheers,

JOT

> Can you test for iodine and other vit levels?

>

January 9, 2011

hello jot

i was under the impresson that the *patch* test had been discredited and drs

brownstein and flechas accept it is not valid?

trish

> And the second test is sometimes unreliable but it worked fine for me when I

first did it....so it may just work for you, most people use this test. You

paint iodine on your thigh or inner arm in a square about 3 inches by 3 inches.

You can put it on with a Q-tip or cotton ball. It will be bright orange when you

paint it on the skin and allow it to dry. If the color fades quickly, your body

probably needs iodine. Within 24 hours if it is so faint you can hardly see it,

you need iodine supplementation. It's lugols iodine they're speaking about, not

the iodine which is in your first aid kit.

>

> Lugol's iodine:

>

http://www.amazon.com/J-Crows-Lugols-Iodine-2-Liquid/dp/B001AEFM9Y/ref=sr_1_cc_1\

?ie=UTF8 & qid=1294598031 & sr=1-1-catcorr

>

> Iodine Paint Test:

> http://altmedangel.com/iodine.htm

January 10, 2011

I was under this impression too. On some groups, they are

vehemently against anybody relying on the iodine patch test as it is extremely

unreliable. It is easily tested through urine.

Here is a reminder about Dr Peatfield's speech at one of our TPA

conferences:

Dr. Peatfield’s speech about Iodine

From the TPA meeting on April 24, 2010, at the Alma

Inn

Dr. Peatfield:

I’m going to talk about

Iodine. Probably expecting us to say something about thyroid and stuff, and

adrenals, but there is a good deal of misunderstanding and misinformation about

iodine. In fact, there is propaganda against it. Most of you are a bit uncertain

about iodine. [background voices –

‘yes’] You think

perhaps you shouldn’t have it, especially with Hashimoto’s,

[background voices – ‘yeah’]…’tis propaganda,

it’s not true.

So, I’m going to get a few

things straight first, and start by saying that you can never be quite well

without iodine. The damaging effects of iodine deficiency have actually been

known for the best part of 200 years. Recent decades, though, have become

convinced that it not only doesn’t help, it may actually be bad for us.

Now, this conviction stems from poor animal experiments, assertions about

medical matters, not backed up by evidence, with which we’re all

familiar, aren’t we?

The basis of this approach, and

it’s undoubtedly the black hand of Big Pharma, is to convince us all that

simple, safe measures are old hat, and that lovely drugs and operations and

radioactive iodine are much better.

The element iodine belongs to a

small group of elements, which include bromine and fluorine, which are called

halogens. At best bromine has little beneficial role to play in medicine, and

fluorine is violently toxic; but iodine has many highly beneficial effects.

Now, there’s a chap called Bernard Courtois who discovered iodine…

this is just a bit of technical stuff… funnily enough, while making gunpowder

from seaweed. [laughter] As you do… [background voices –

‘yes’ – more laughter] in 1811. During the next two decades

it was found that iodine would prevent, and shrink, goitre. Two American

doctors, Two American doctors, Marine and Larson used it for this in Michigan,

around the Great Lakes, in the early 1920s, and the addition of iodine to salt

was begun. This iodised salt is widely used throughout the world, though less

so in the UK than previously… Physicians found that small amounts of Lugol’s

iodine helped reduce goitre and hypothyroidism; but also that large amounts

caused suppression of over-activity, and shrinkage of the overactive goitre.

In the 1930s most especially, the

use of natural thyroid became widespread; and thyroxine was synthesised in the

1950s, and the use of iodine became a thing of the past. For the overactive

thyroid, the natural Lugol’s iodine also fell out of favour, and instead

neomercazole and propyl thiouracil became the drugs of choice, in spite of

damaging side effects. And if these weren’t enough, the radioactive form

of iodine, which collects in the thyroid and kills the cells off, and surgery

became the favoured treatment.

In 1948 Wolff and Chaikoff

concluded from rat experiments, that iodine would actually block manufacture of

thyroid hormones. The truth of the matter was that a high dose

would do so; but for a day or so only. By then the damage was done and iodine

became less and less used – with the resultant increase in thyroid

illness. Their papers had gone right through the medical fraternity –and

all the doctors started to believe that iodine was, in some way, not a good

thing, and it became less and less used with resulted increase in thyroid

illness. In those days, iodine was used in the manufacture of bread, and even

that was stopped, and instead of using iodine, they started to use bromine,

which does have untoward effects, sometimes. And, of course, you lose out on

your iodine.

This made everything much worse;

since the RDA was set at a very low figure of 0.15 mg (ie 150 mcg), when 37.5

– 50 mg is a far more realistic dose. Very small amounts (75 mcg) will

prevent goitre, since with iodine deficiency the thyroid enlarges to obtain as

much iodine as possible, and when iodine is given it will shrink. This is where

Derbyshire neck comes in.

Now, there’s a chap called

Bernard Courtois …this is just a bit of technical stuff…who

discovered iodine in 1881, funnily enough, while making gunpowder from seaweed.

[laughter] As you do… [background voices – ‘yes’

– more laughter]. And it was latched onto by doctors, and quite soon

they, doctors, found that it helped people with, goitres, either due to overactive

or underactive thyroid. It became widely used over the next few decades, and by

the 1900s, it was becoming so widely used that there were two doctors in

Michigan, in the Great Lakes, who, finding so many of their patients were

HYPOthyroid due to iodine deficiency, that they suggested that salt had iodine

added to it. This is iodized salt.

We used to use a lot of iodized

salt in this country. You can still buy it, but it’s become much, much

less seen, and as a result, of course, there is an increasing amount of thyroid

deficiency states because we’re not getting the salt that we actually

need.

Iodized salt is actually widely

used throughout the world, and even a small amount of what’s called

Lugol’s Iodine, which is a mixture of iodine and potassium iodide, was

found in the years before the war to reduce goitre and hypothyroidism quite

remarkably, and that large amounts could be used to suppress over-activity, and

was used to shrink the over-active goitre.

By the 1930s, the natural thyroid

was becoming widespread in use, and then as we know, Thyroxine was synthesized

in the 1950s, and the use of iodine started to fade out. The use of

Lugol’s Iodine, for the over-active thyroid, fell into disuse, and

instead of using a simple, safe iodine preparation, now, if you have an over-active

thyroid, as you know, you get NeoMercazole and Thiouracil, and if you’re

lacking and can run fast enough, that’s enough to prevent having your

thyroid taken out, or your thyroid nuked.

In fact, I’m sorry to say,

that radioactive iodine is a favourite course of treatment for anybody with an

overactive thyroid, and this is, I’ve said elsewhere, a terrible,

terrible, thing to happen. And most of you, given sufficient iodine, even with

an over-active thyroid, may actually avoid the attentions of the surgeons or

the physicians with their radioactivity.

So, on the whole, the use of

iodine started to get less and less and less, and it all got so much worse;

since the RDA was set at a very low figure of 0.15 mg (ie 150 mcg), when 37.5

– 50 mg is a far more realistic dose. Very small amounts (75 mcg) will

prevent goitre, since with iodine deficiency the thyroid enlarges to obtain as

much iodine as possible, and when iodine is given it will shrink. This is where

Derbyshire neck comes in. This is enough to stop you getting a goitre, but it

is not enough for your general

health. In fact, as I shall say in a moment, you can have something like, ten

times that dose, and benefit from it.

I saw a lady the other day with a

classic Derbyshire Neck. This would have been prevented with sufficient iodine

, and what I am actually giving her will be iodine, probably in the form of

kelp, possibly Lugol’s Iodine, and this will shrink Derbyshire Neck.

Derbyshire Neck is where there is insufficiency in iodine - wherever you are

living, particularly in inland areas, and the thyroid enlarges to try and make

better use of the iodine it can get.

So, though most of us think in

terms of iodine for HYPOthyroidism, because it is an essential component of

thyroxine, the system does have other uses for iodine, and these too are

ignored by modern medicine.

So, uses of iodine. It is an

amazingly good antiseptic. It used to be used as a major, major antiseptic in

hospitals. And it was actually, at least as good as, if not better, than

Hibitane and Dettol. It’s very, very good for sterilizing skin, for

surgery, as well as in dressing wounds. The system needs iodine generally for

the production of other hormones. Specifically, though, it is needed by the

tissues of the breast and the ovary. More on that in a minute.

Every cell contains and uses

iodine, and glands other than the thyroid need it. It’s stored in

salivary glands, the cerebral spinal fluid, breast tissue, ovaries, and brain.

In this context, low iodine in pregnancy may be a disaster. Low iodine in

pregnancy can reduce the IQ of your baby 5 or 10 points, no trouble. And, the

World Health Organization has actually recognized that iodine deficiency is the

world’s greatest cause of preventable mental retardation. Bit of a worry!

Our main concern has to be the

role of iodine in the thyroid gland. Now, you’ll remember that the

thyroid molecule is built up of the amino acid, thyronine, formed from two

tyrosines together with the iodine. Four for thyroxine, T4, three for T3, two

for T2, and so on. So, iodine is pretty important. And, I’ll just

mention, and come back to it in a minute, that iodine deficient people have

increased risk of thyroid antibodies. I, and I know Dr.Skinner, we diagnose

Hashimoto’s Disease more and more often, this is the autoimmune

thyroiditis, where you produce your own antibodies and they destroy your own

thyroid.

Another interesting thing to be

aware of that if you give iodine, there is a slight rise in TSH. Now, this is

where Wolff and Chaikoff got it all wrong, because people say with a TSH

that’s going up, then actually the iodine is suppressing thyroid

function. It’s NOT that! The thyroid actually isn’t being shut

down, but the TSH stimulates the production of cells which transport the

iodine, so as to get more iodine to the system. So, you’ve got a

temporary rise in TSH, when you have iodine, but it’s not because

it’s shutting down the thyroid. It’s because the thyroid is

actually responding to it.

We know that iodine is needed for

thyroid hormone production, but it does have some other things to do. In the

cell, the iodide salt, which is what we get mostly in our food, is oxidized to

elemental iodine by hydrogen peroxide, by the enzyme thyroperoxidase. Now, if

this doesn’t work properly, if this oxidization doesn’t work

properly, and it’s not oxidized properly, this is why you get antibodies

being stimulated. The iodine in the thyroid becomes part of the thyroid

molecule, and you need anything from 75 to 150 micrograms a day to do this.

But, if a larger amount is given,

say 10 times as much, say 15 milligrams, the iodine can now do some other

things. When it attaches itself to a lactose molecule, it forms something

called gamma inolactase . Now, THIS is crucial, because it has a role to play

in regulating cell growth in the thyroid. And, most especially, a wonderful

process, wait for it, called apoptosis. This is a process by which cells are

programmed to die as part of the regulation of metabolic processes, and to

control

is what happens in cancer. And,

this process can occur in the thyroid and in the breast tissue and in the

ovaries. Gamma iodolactose controls this alongside cellular calcium.

So, iodine can actually be used

to control cancer in at least three very important tissues. In addition to this

loss of control of apoptosis, lack of iodine may result in too much hydrogen

peroxide which may be produced from over oxidation of the iodine, and this can

damage the thyroperoxidase enzyme. It is this which kicks off antibody

production, and thyroglobulin can get involved in this as well; so we find anti

TPO antibodies, and anti thyroglobulin antibodies. Hense, Hashimoto’s

disease.

Treatment of this situation means

that extra iodine must be taken, and much more than 150 mcg RDA; probably 10

times as much. Vitamins B2 and B3 riboflavin and niacin are required. Large

amounts of vitamin C, say 4 or 5 grams at least, are also needed, and magnesium

should be provided also if deficient.

Now, people do worry about high

levels of iodine. One worry is that you may get allergies to iodine, which is

very rare, and if it happens, I’m afraid, it’s something that has

to be dealt with on its merits. The big worry is the erroneous, but firmly held

belief, that iodine CAUSES autoimmune thyroiditis. And, as I’ve said, it

doesn’t. It actually helps prevent it. In fact there is no evidence for

this assertion, but you’ll find doctors believe it all over the place.

And, you see it everywhere, that iodine mustn’t be used in

Hashimoto’s disease. It’s not true! It actually helps!

Another belief we have to counter

is that iodine will cause hypothyroidism and goitre. As I said, there is this

temporary lift in TSH when you have iodine, but the whole thing settles down

within a day or two. And, thyroid enlargement disappears. Some people actually

fear that iodine may produce extra thyroid hormones for a while before the

level settles down, and it doesn’t do this. There have even been

suggestions that it can cause cancer. It prevents cancer. This is part of the

attempt of doctors and Big Pharma to discourage the use of iodine, and it

doesn’t have ANY basis in fact and it’s untrue. It’s been

shown that as iodine levels have got less, and less in the western world, the

incidence of thyroid cancer has increased.

Incidentally, radio-active iodine

from accidental exposure, as from Chenobyl, certainly does, indeed, cause

cancer and if you ever want to know what to do if you get exposed to

radioactive iodine, you have lots and lots and lots of ordinary iodine and then

the body can’t take out the radioactive iodine, so you saturate the

thyroid with iodine, and then the radioactive iodine won’t be taken up

[faint laughter]

Coming second to the thyroid

itself, the tissues of the breast take up and store iodine. Without iodine,

fibrocystic disease of the breast is likely, causing lumpy breasts, discomfort

and tenderness. Many workers consider fibrocystic disease a possible precursor

to breast cancer. Its role seems to be related to the programmed cell death,

apoptosis, I mentioned just now, preventing overgrowth of cells, and also its

role as an antioxidant.

Many people think that

fibrocystic disease is a possible precursor to breast cancer, and the evidence

suggests that it is. Its role seems to be related to this apoptosis bit, where

you’ve got this cell death. Plenty of iodine stops you getting lumpy

breasts, and reduces your risk of getting breast cancer.

There is a relationship too, in

this context, with oestrogen. Where there is an imbalance between the three

oestrogens, with more oestrogen than oestriol present, and a reduction in

oestriol, this is oestrogen dominance. Then, along side iodine deficiency,

fibrocystic disease is even more likely. Iodine has been found to promote a

better oestrogen balance by actually promoting oestriol production from excess

oestrone and oestriol. These are manufactured in the ovary which will cause

normal levels of iodine to insure proper balance between these three. So, it

will actually help you deal with oestrogen dominance. And all these risks

becoming very much worse by xenoestrogens in our diet, that’s all the

foodstuffs which have got oestrogen-like activity which contributes so much to

oestrogen dominance in so many of you ladies.

Now, just a few words about how

to take it. First thing to say is that the RDA at 150mg is too low! You can all

have more, especially you girls, you ought to have more.

Brownstein, to whom I am

indebted for some of this, recommends that the best way of taking in iodine, is

a mixture of iodine and iodide. Probably Lugol’s iodine is the best

preparation; one or two drops a day will provide somewhere between 12 and 50 mg

a day. Iodizyme PH from ‘allergy research’ is another excellent

product; even ½ tablet daily may correct iodine deficiency. These preparations

are excellent and probably best for diagnosed iodine deficiency. But since so

many of

us are deficient, the use of kelp

tablets is a simple and inexpensive alternative, and a valuable adjunct in the

treatment of hypothyroidism and breast disease. You can buy them virtually

anywhere. Three a day, maybe four, maybe more, perfectly safe, and will

actually mean that you need less thyroid hormones, and you’re protecting

yourself against fibrocystic disease and possible cancer of the thyroid, breast

and ovaries. Taken in this way it is entirely safe; and sometimes works so well

that you may need to reduce your thyroid hormone replacement dose. When

starting iodine replacement monitor your response and temperatures and pulses

very carefully.

I did say I’m indebted to

Brownstein for some of this - it was something else that he said that I

wanted to pass on. He has pointed out that the evidence for reduction in salt

in our diet is probably misplaced. The problem really comes from the refined

salt. Refined salt is actually not particularly good for us, because it’s

too simple, too refined. He uses routinely, for people with low thyroid and low

adrenal function, Celtic salt, Himalayan salt, unrefined salts. And, I’ve

found myself, some benefits from so many people whom I’ve told to come off

this ridiculous ‘no salt’ regime, for their blood pressure. The

evidence for it is very, very thin, but all the doctors believe it, and believe

it and believe it and believe it, and, instead, use unrefined salt. And, I

personally use unrefined salt. It’s much nicer, it’s much safer and

it will actually help your thyroid/adrenal function.

So, I wanted you to go away with

the thought that, yes, you do need more iodine, and you can have it in the way

of kelp. Yes, all this business about you mustn’t - you dare not, have

salt because of your blood pressure is largely illusory. None of these things

that we all read about from doctors similar to low thyroid and all the rest of

it, what you actually need is decent salt, and you can have as much as you

need. Even if you’ve got high blood pressure, you may actually find the

blood

pressure comes down. So, those

two things to take away.

Thanks ever so much.