Guest guest Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 I personally prefer taking T4 and T3. The reason for this is that i get the T4 on the NHS free and buy my own T3 (although i am trying to get them to prescribe T3 as well). The main reason, though, is due to the control you have over the doses. With natural you have to take the dose of T4 and T3 they give to you. I am sure this works fine for most people, but for a minority it is better if they can control the T4/T3. For example some people may need more T3 avaliable in, say two grains (76 T4 and 18 T3) so they could be on 75mg T4 and 30mg T3. Others may not tolerate the T3 as well (but still need it) and so could dose 75 T4 and 10 T3. I am sure this control could offer some help to those struggling with there set natural dose. You can also take natural and add in some T3 and people do this, but in your case it sounds like you want to take LESS T3 and so using T4/T3 will help with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 5, 2011 Report Share Posted January 5, 2011 HI, That is not a bad idea. I have some T4 and T3 as well. What I am trying to figure out is how bad is it for you to take T4 with low iron? T4 seems like it is less harsh on the body..T3 is so hard on the adrenals, or so it seems that way. Ideally I would take 2mcg of T3 every few hours...I really do not need much...6mcg sends me flying! It is hard to break down the T3 into that small a dose. > > I personally prefer taking T4 and T3. The reason for this is that i get the T4 on the NHS free and buy my own T3 (although i am trying to get them to prescribe T3 as well). > > The main reason, though, is due to the control you have over the doses. With natural you have to take the dose of T4 and T3 they give to you. I am sure this works fine for most people, but for a minority it is better if they can control the T4/T3. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 3/4 of a grain of Armour is a very small dose and I would try to increase it by another quarter of a grain (if you are very sensitive) or half a grain if not. You should really be increasing your dose of Armour by half a grain every 3 to 4 weeks until you find the dose where all your symptoms disappear. This is often found out quite early after one of your dose increases, a couple or so hours after having the increased dose, you might start to feel hyperthyroid with symptoms of palpitations, feeling 'spaced out', over-active etc. This is a sign you have taken too much so don't take any more that day, and the following day, go back to the dose you were on previously and that is the dose you will probably need for the rest of your life. I would be inclined to take your iron tablets up to a couple of days before the ferritin test. Also, I hope you are taking your iron well away (about 4 hours) from thyroid hormone replacement. Have you also had your vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc levels tested, because again, if any of these are low in the range, your thyroid hormone can't be properly absorbed. Luv - Sheila Hi, I am trying to decide if I would be better off on T4 only or if I should stay on Armour. My ferritin was 31 last time I had it done ( end of Nov ) and I have been taking various forms of iron since - about 150mg per day with Vit c, digestive enzymes, etc. I was on T3 only and made it up to 31mcg and felt too anxious and just did not like T3. So I re-started on 1/4 Armour and worked my way up to 3/4 grain. I am feeling some improvement on the 3/4 grain, clearly all of my hypo symptoms are not gone...I have a long way to go. However, when I take Armour each time, I feel a little wired / tired from the T3 and low iron must be the reason for that. Would T4 only be better for a while? Or am I better off hanging out on a low dose of Armour for longer? I want to go my ferritin re-tested...perhaps next week. How long do I need to stop taking iron before the test? Do some people just find the T3 in Armour too strong? Thanks! Jen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi Sheila, > I appear to be very sensitive to Armour and since I had a crash about 6 weeks ago, I want to be cautious. I am doing ok on the 3/4 grain and it is giving me time to focus on my Ferritin levels, which I have been working on for roughly 5 weeks - I hope the iron is making a difference. > > I take the Armour sublingually, so I am not having any conflicts with other supplements ( iron, etc. ) I also take the iron with VIt C and do not have any dairy or calcium / mac / zinc at the same time. > > Thank you for the info regarding the iron timing with the blood test, I will stop today and tomorrow and take the test on Sat then. I plan to increase 1/4 grain at the end of next week unless I get clear signs I need more ( usually that is air hunger and increase back pain / stiff hands ). I do not feel massively hypo yet..so I think my body is still adjusting to the 3/4 grain dose. > > I find it interesting that Armour's conversion chart is so wrong. There is no way that 3/4 grain is equal to 75 of T4...am I right on that one? The body will store the 29mcg of T4 and use the of T3 that day...so really I am only building up 29 mcg of T4 over time.... > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi , There is no point in taking Armour sublingually since the reformulation some time ago. Other brands such as FERA may be taken sublingually- it's all in the type of fillers. Keep thyroid meds away from all minerals especially calcium by 4 hours. The conversion chart is fine- as long as you can convert T4 to T3- if you cant use the T4 and it converts instead to RT3 then it blocks the T3 receptors which causes all sorts of problems and intolerances. > thyroid treatment > From: roebuck_jennifer@...> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 12:05:11 +0000> Subject: Re: T4 only or Armour> > Hi Sheila,> > I appear to be very sensitive to Armour and since I had a crash about 6 weeks ago, I want to be cautious. I am doing ok on the 3/4 grain and it is giving me time to focus on my Ferritin levels, which I have been working on for roughly 5 weeks - I hope the iron is making a difference. > > > > I take the Armour sublingually, so I am not having any conflicts with other supplements ( iron, etc. ) I also take the iron with VIt C and do not have any dairy or calcium / mac / zinc at the same time. > > > > Thank you for the info regarding the iron timing with the blood test, I will stop today and tomorrow and take the test on Sat then. I plan to increase 1/4 grain at the end of next week unless I get clear signs I need more ( usually that is air hunger and increase back pain / stiff hands ). I do not feel massively hypo yet..so I think my body is still adjusting to the 3/4 grain dose. > > > > I find it interesting that Armour's conversion chart is so wrong. There is no way that 3/4 grain is equal to 75 of T4...am I right on that one? The body will store the 29mcg of T4 and use the of T3 that day...so really I am only building up 29 mcg of T4 over time....> > > > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi , Many are taking Armour sublingually and doing fine. You just have to add a bit of sugar and crush it up - the STTM site has some good pointers on this since the reformulation. I am thinking I will give EFRA a try in the future though, when my Armour supplies run out. My last rT3 labs came back ok, so I do convert T4 well despite my low iron. I think I just end up with T3 pooling a bit when I go too high..so I have to be patient until iron is a little higher. I am not sure that conversion chart makes sense, but we can debate about that another time . Thank you for all the work you do, it is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 You can't take the new Armour sublingually . It was reformulated a couple of years ago to stop it from being taken sublingually. Nobody knows why. They removed some of the dextrose and added more cellulose and if you now try to take it sublingually, you just get a horrible gluey unpleasant concoction that still has to be swallowed. Unlike the old Armour, that was dissolved direct into the blood stream through the tiny capillaries under the tongue. However, the best way to take the new Armour is to chomp it up to bits in your mouth and then swallow it with plenty of water - and an hour away from food. You are correct in that the Armour conversion chart is wrong, but they never seem to put it right. Have you been tested to see whether you have low adrenal reserve or systemic candidiasis, and what about vitamin B12, D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc? If any of these are low, your thyroid hormone cannot be absorbed and you will get toxicity symptoms. Luv - Sheila > I appear to be very sensitive to Armour and since I had a crash about 6 weeks ago, I want to be cautious. I am doing ok on the 3/4 grain and it is giving me time to focus on my Ferritin levels, which I have been working on for roughly 5 weeks - I hope the iron is making a difference. > > I take the Armour sublingually, so I am not having any conflicts with other supplements ( iron, etc. ) I also take the iron with VIt C and do not have any dairy or calcium / mac / zinc at the same time. > ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi , I am not a moderator, just a patient. The symptoms of being anxious sound like this an adrenal problem. Have you had a 24 hour saliva test done to see where your adrenal levels are? Many times when one cannot tolerate T3 and or T4/T3 it is because of weak adrenals. Most people need to be on 75 - 125 T3 after they clear the reverse T3. The order of treating should be to raise ferritin and treat adrenals, then start to raise the Thyroid medications. I found out the hard way. I took (8) iron infusions at the hospital (one a week) and did the T3 protocol to clear Reverse T3....then started Hydrocortisone and it was a very rough ride. I had been taking my T3 in 6 doses throughout the day so I could tolerate it but it was very wearisome. My temperature was not stable and low. My doctor put me on Hydrocortisone taken 4 times a day in a manner that mimicks the bodies rythm and I had to lower my T3 for a while, it was not fun. I am getting better now. Good luck. I hope this helps. Terri RE: Re: T4 only or Armour You can't take the new Armour sublingually . It was reformulated a couple of years ago to stop it from being taken sublingually. Nobody knows why. They removed some of the dextrose and added more cellulose and if you now try to take it sublingually, you just get a horrible gluey unpleasant concoction that still has to be swallowed. Unlike the old Armour, that was dissolved direct into the blood stream through the tiny capillaries under the tongue. However, the best way to take the new Armour is to chomp it up to bits in your mouth and then swallow it with plenty of water - and an hour away from food. You are correct in that the Armour conversion chart is wrong, but they never seem to put it right. Have you been tested to see whether you have low adrenal reserve or systemic candidiasis, and what about vitamin B12, D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc? If any of these are low, your thyroid hormone cannot be absorbed and you will get toxicity symptoms. Luv - Sheila > I appear to be very sensitive to Armour and since I had a crash about 6 weeks ago, I want to be cautious. I am doing ok on the 3/4 grain and it is giving me time to focus on my Ferritin levels, which I have been working on for roughly 5 weeks - I hope the iron is making a difference. > > I take the Armour sublingually, so I am not having any conflicts with other supplements ( iron, etc. ) I also take the iron with VIt C and do not have any dairy or calcium / mac / zinc at the same time. > ___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi, Ok. I do feel a lot of improvement from taking it sublingually so that is odd. I will try swallowing tomorrow and see what happens. The problem is I take HC and that has to be taken with food first thing in the morning and I need to take that before thyroid meds. That is why sublingual works. The other groups have people taking the new Armour sublingually. I am on 27mg of HC. I do not have candida or any of the other deficiencies. Just the iron and adrenal fatigue. Glad someone else has noticed the Armour chart is wrong. There is no way people with functioning thyroids would start out on 100mcg of T4...which is what they say is 1 grain. > > You can't take the new Armour sublingually . It was reformulated a > couple of years ago to stop it from being taken sublingually. Nobody knows > why. They removed some of the dextrose and added more cellulose and if you > now try to take it sublingually, you just get a horrible gluey unpleasant > concoction that still has to be swallowed. Unlike the old Armour, that was > dissolved direct into the blood stream through the tiny capillaries under > the tongue. However, the best way to take the new Armour is to chomp it up > to bits in your mouth and then swallow it with plenty of water - and an hour > away from food. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 6, 2011 Report Share Posted January 6, 2011 Hi Terri, I am actually taking HC and have been since last July, adrenals are very stable - my temp is always 36.3, except when I start improving on thyroid medication. Yesterday I had a 36.6 - very exciting! I have not been anxious recently, only when getting to 31mcg of T3, which was due to low iron problems as I was on 40mg of HC at the time, salt 2x per day, vit C and the list goes on. I do not feel anxious now, just a little speedy when I take the Armour, T4 even gives me decent energy. my rT3 ratio was 20 when I last checked, which is not bad and I do not think warrants the T3 protocol. I am just working on getting my iron up now and feel like I should stay on a low dose of Armour for now to be safe, I do not want to start over again..... There is documentation from the Mayo clinic that says low iron causes your body to go into a hyperadrenic state when thyroid hormone is given to hypo patients, which then causes you to have an adrenal crash even if you are on HC. They ran studies of various patients and charted their ferritin levels and found a correlation between their tolerance of T4 and NTH improved when Ferritin was raised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 14, 2011 Report Share Posted January 14, 2011 If you are taking the Canadian Erfa brand 'Thyroid' (they call it Armour Thyroid) - that is designed to be taken sublingually, but most definitely not if you are using the 'Armour thyroid' manufactured by Forest Pharmaceuticals. If you try that sublingually, it goes into a horrible chalky, gooey and most unpleasant mess. Luv - Sheila Hi, Ok. I do feel a lot of improvement from taking it sublingually so that is odd. I will try swallowing tomorrow and see what happens. The problem is I take HC and that has to be taken with food first thing in the morning and I need to take that before thyroid meds. That is why sublingual works. The other groups have people taking the new Armour sublingually. I am on 27mg of HC. I do not have candida or any of the other deficiencies. Just the iron and adrenal fatigue. Glad someone else has noticed the Armour chart is wrong. There is no way people with functioning thyroids would start out on 100mcg of T4...which is what they say is 1 grain. __ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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