Re: Suspected hypothyroisidm but 'normal' results?

[Guest guest]

Hello Nikita

It appears that you are one of our members who would do better

by writing to your GP. Doctors DO pay a lot more attention to the written word

than they do in a face to face consultation. Send a copy of the letter to your

Head of Practice and keep a copy yourself in case you need to refer to it at a

later date. In that letter

Tell the doctor you are no longer prepared to carry on suffering

the symptoms and signs that you are without a proper diagnosis being found so

that you can start on the treatment that will make you well.

List all of your symptoms and signs. Check these against those

in our web site www.tpa-uk.org.uk

under 'Hypothyroidism'

Next, list ALL the members of your family who have a thyroid or

autoimmune disease.

Next, take your temperature for 4 or 5 mornings before you get

out of bed and list these if they are less than 97.8 degrees F or 36.6 degrees

C.

Next, list the blood tests you still need to be done, particularly

the tests to see whether you have antibodies to your thyroid. These are TPO and

TgAb. Ask for the follow9ing minerals and vitamins to be tested and tell the

doctor that if any of these are low in the reference range, your thyroid

hormone cannot be fully utilised at the cellular level until whatever is low,

has been supplemented. These are ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium,

folate, copper and zinc. When the results of these are returned, ask the doctor

to send these out to you together with the reference range for each test done.

Should your GP try to tell you that there is no connection between these particular

low levels of vitamins and minerals, then quote the following:

Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly

reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the

thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus,

iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin

below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4

should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is

present (1-4)).

1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al.

Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism.

Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2.

SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In

vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of

dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of

Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry

and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for

Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr.

1989;119:772-778.

Low

vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low

vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low

magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low

folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low 

copper/zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Ferritin

levels for women need to be between 70 and 90 (for men around between 150 and

170)

Vitamin

B12 needs to be at the top of the range. D3 levels need to be about 50. Magnesium

levels need to be at the top of the range, it's one thing that gets missed a

great deal.

Next,

ask to be referred to an endocrinologist of your choice. I will send you a list

of these privately. You can be referred outside of your area if there is nobody

suitable where you live.

Hope

this helps to get your doctor shifted into a position where he knows you will

not put up with the lack of care any longer and that he will now do what he can

to help you.

Last,

don't forget to ask your GP to put your letter of requests into your medical

notes.

Good

luck

Luv

- Sheila

But I digress. I have a strong family history of thyroid probs (mum's was

overactive and taken out at 18yrs old, sister has Hashi's), many symptoms

myself (fatigue which is getting a lot worse, weight problems, feel the cold to

a ridiculous degree, etc etc) and yet I don't seem to be getting anywhere.

I suspect adrenal fatigue is maybe an issue but I am dreading the thought of

trying to get anywhere with that... Can't afford to go private or get tests

myself so I am (unfortunately) reliant on the NHS.

1 of 1 File(s)

MINERALS AND VIT. TESTING.doc

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila.

Oddly this has all come around via me trying to get tested for vitamin D

deficiency (which only I suspect - drs have actually laughed at me when I've

suggested it), due to chronic bone pain in various places (worst in ribs/feet).

It was researching that that led me here via a recommendation from someone else

as the two things seem to be related and I have the hypo symptoms as well.

I have just changed GP because of the attitude of the last ones (they have given

up now as the answer hasn't magically appeared) - I've only seen the nurse so

far (for the new patient appt which is when I requested the blood tests), I

would guess it's best to see a Dr first and see what they say then do the

letter?

Or would you go straight for the letter, maybe if I include a bit about how I've

been getting nowhere for 2 years and have changed surgery in the hope that they

would help? Not sure if it would upset them though and as I've only been there

a week I'd rather not do that!

Sorry to bombard you with questions

Thanks, Nikita

[Guest guest]

Funny. I had been trying to get a Vitamin D test for two years as well... and I was deficient. HA! I started waddling a few months ago, and my shoulders are very weak, and I feel crunchy when I walk.  Just started taking 10,000IU supplements a few days ago. I'm also having similar issues with the thyroid, with similar results. (1 for TSH) I was normal, my GP proclaimed. 

 The doctors shouldn't be laughing, Vitamin D deficiency is becoming a widespread problem. On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:26 AM, nikirushka <niki_rushka@...> wrote:

 

Thanks Sheila.

Oddly this has all come around via me trying to get tested for vitamin D deficiency (which only I suspect - drs have actually laughed at me when I've suggested it), due to chronic bone pain in various places (worst in ribs/feet). It was researching that that led me here via a recommendation from someone else as the two things seem to be related and I have the hypo symptoms as well.

I have just changed GP because of the attitude of the last ones (they have given up now as the answer hasn't magically appeared) - I've only seen the nurse so far (for the new patient appt which is when I requested the blood tests), I would guess it's best to see a Dr first and see what they say then do the letter?

Or would you go straight for the letter, maybe if I include a bit about how I've been getting nowhere for 2 years and have changed surgery in the hope that they would help? Not sure if it would upset them though and as I've only been there a week I'd rather not do that!

Sorry to bombard you with questions

Thanks, Nikita

__

[Guest guest]

Are you really taking 10,000 IU of vitamin D per day? The capsules we got from

Dr Myhill are 1,000 IU and it says you can take between one and five per day.

My son has been taking 1,000 IU for months and it hasn't helped his vitamin D

deficiency at all. Maybe he could take quite a lot more?

Miriam

> I had been trying to get a Vitamin D test for two years as well...

> and I was deficient. HA! I started waddling a few months ago, and my

> shoulders are very weak, and I feel crunchy when I walk. Just started taking

10,000 IU supplements a few days ago.

[Guest guest]

i was told last year by an endo that if i had deficiency i'd take 10,000 a day

for a short period of time-too much too long and he said i'd get kidney stones,

i can't remember how long.

chris

>

> Are you really taking 10,000 IU of vitamin D per day? The capsules we got

from Dr Myhill are 1,000 IU and it says you can take between one and five per

day. My son has been taking 1,000 IU for months and it hasn't helped his

vitamin D deficiency at all. Maybe he could take quite a lot more?

>

> Miriam

>

[Guest guest]

i saw a dismissive dr too - i asked her about vitamin d and she said didn't i

ever go outside?

they just show their ignorance.

is brief exposure every day going to be enough? i don't think so.

not only that, but are overweight people with no garden and who can't afford a

foreign holiday really like to lounge around outside where they can be

ridiculed?

they are very ignorant and a disgrace to their profession. if they tested and

said 'it's ok' then that's something else, but just to dismiss it out of hand

shows their ignorance.

>

> I have just changed GP because of the attitude of the last ones (they have

given up now as the answer hasn't magically appeared) - I've only seen the nurse

so far (for the new patient appt which is when I requested the blood tests), I

would guess it's best to see a Dr first and see what they say then do the

letter?

Yes i think see a dr first, give them a chance to be different and explain the

situation maybe?

chris

>

> Thanks Sheila.

>

> Oddly this has all come around via me trying to get tested for vitamin D

deficiency (which only I suspect - drs have actually laughed at me when I've

suggested it), due to chronic bone pain in various places (worst in ribs/feet).

It was researching that that led me here via a recommendation from someone else

as the two things seem to be related and I have the hypo symptoms as well.

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry.For me, that was a one time dose of 10,000 IU, and I have to take another dose in a month's time.On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:20 PM, miriam_hinch <miriam_hinch@...> wrote:

 

Are you really taking 10,000 IU of vitamin D per day? The capsules we got from Dr Myhill are 1,000 IU and it says you can take between one and five per day. My son has been taking 1,000 IU for months and it hasn't helped his vitamin D deficiency at all. Maybe he could take quite a lot more?

Miriam

> I had been trying to get a Vitamin D test for two years as well...

> and I was deficient. HA! I started waddling a few months ago, and my

> shoulders are very weak, and I feel crunchy when I walk. Just started taking 10,000 IU supplements a few days ago.

[Guest guest]

I would go straight for the letter - start as you mean to go on,

and it gives your new GP a good insight into exactly what you have been

suffering in the past and what you need for the future. S/he will know you have

no intention of allowing anybody to pull the wool over your eyes. Word it in

such a way that you are not sounding combative, but wanting him/her to know

your feelings right from the start so that you can both work together to put

things right. Always remember that doctors need patients and patients need

doctors so you do not have to wait to see HIM/HER first, you start the ball

rolling as you have as much right to put your case forward as they have to meet

you have way - if that makes sense. We all know how the majority of NHS doctors

will try to reach a diagnosis of hypothyroidism and how they will treat it, and

how little they know about all the associated conditions that go along with the

symptoms of hypothyroidism - that must be recognised and treated.

We are always saying " we don't want to upset our

doctors " - but it should also be doctors saying " we don't want to

upset our patients " . 50/50!

Luv - Sheila

Thanks Sheila.

I have just changed GP because of the attitude of the last ones (they have

given up now as the answer hasn't magically appeared) - I've only seen the

nurse so far (for the new patient appt which is when I requested the blood

tests), I would guess it's best to see a Dr first and see what they say then do

the letter?

Or would you go straight for the letter, maybe if I include a bit about how

I've been getting nowhere for 2 years and have changed surgery in the hope that

they would help? Not sure if it would upset them though and as I've only been

there a week I'd rather not do that!

[Guest guest]

Anyone with low Vit D should do extra checks to see that it is not a Secondary

problem. If you have bone pain and other symptoms of HyperParathyroidism - the

Vit D is going low for a reason and supplementing will make you feel worse.

The parathyroids sit very near or in the thyroid so they are often co existing

illnesses.

http://www.parathyroid.com/low-vitamin-d.htm

Jane

>

> >

> >

> > Thanks Sheila.

> >

> > Oddly this has all come around via me trying to get tested for vitamin D

> > deficiency (which only I suspect - drs have actually laughed at me when I've

> > suggested it),

>

> old message deleted by moderator*************

>

[Guest guest]

Hi nikita, well TSH look good- and that is what most docs look at, but FT4 is near the bottom of the range and FT3 isn't very high either, most healthy folk have the FT3 near the top of the range. With those results you are not likely to get a diagnosis of hypothyroidism from a GP. But that does not mean that something is not wrong. I would try to get the vits and minerals tested alongside the vit D. Iron ( ferritin is the test) zinc, selenium, B12 and folate are all vital for proper thyroid function too. Have you lookes at the questionnaires in the forum files for adrenals and candida as these may help you decide where the problem lies. > thyroid treatment > From: niki_rushka@...> Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 08:33:15 +0000> Subject: Suspected hypothyroisidm but 'normal' results?> > HI all, I had bloods taken last week to test my thyroid and vitamin D levels at my request (had to change dr to get this), just got the thyroid results back and wondered what people think.> > TSH - 1 (ref range 0.35-4.94)> T3 - 4.14 (3.6-6.5)> T4 - 12.4 (9-19.1)> > Vitamin D was not in the results, he nurse thought it might just be taking a little longer. If it doesn't turn up I will be royally miffed as I've been trying to get a vit D test for nearly 2 years!> > But I digress. I have a strong family history of thyroid probs (mum's was overactive and taken out at 18yrs old, sister has Hashi's), many symptoms myself (fatigue which is getting a lot worse, weight problems, feel the cold to a ridiculous degree, etc etc) and yet I don't seem to be getting anywhere.> > I suspect adrenal fatigue is maybe an issue but I am dreading the thought of trying to get anywhere with that... Can't afford to go private or get tests myself so I am (unfortunately) reliant on the NHS.> > Any advice anyone?> > Thanks, Nikita> > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

i feel a bit thick now: i have low vit d levels, and symptoms of vit d

deficiency, but not been treating. it just struck me. how stupid.

anyway, Friedman wrote about vit d+ thyroid receptors

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v & q=cache:8BP4UsqvCm4J:www.goodhormonehealth.com\

/VitaminD.pdf+vitamin+d+thyroid+receptor & hl=en & gl=uk & pid=bl & srcid=ADGEESixyij6Nj\

0mP4kuBPFKwh55reqhv-Bk573PjHMLlxEqPDpAhW-pbcSM9aF-dA2_MUcMGWzG_mW8HrxathmKOdCITn\

8SuLVzZo_oIs19TL1UowdgVWs6_RNTzS7dROMbtqrnHx4w & sig=AHIEtbTsZxDH3OH8ZFluQUD1tdHo8\

6PXIA

>

> Anyone with low Vit D should do extra checks to see that it is not a Secondary

problem. If you have bone pain and other symptoms of HyperParathyroidism - the

Vit D is going low for a reason and supplementing will make you feel worse.

The parathyroids sit very near or in the thyroid so they are often co existing

illnesses.

>

> http://www.parathyroid.com/low-vitamin-d.htm

>

[Guest guest]

Well now. Just called to chase up the vitamin D - result is in.

My level is 49; ref range 50-75 and there is a note saying 'should be above 75

at all times'. So I am now officially deficient although I must admit I

expected it to be worse than that, but it's progress!

Apparently the doctor has written me a letter, only sent it yesterday though so

likely I won't get that til Saturday at least. I'm intrigued now, as there's no

info on the system about what it's about.

I'm rather hoping it's something lovely along the lines of 'I've looked at all

your results and we need to do something asap' but I am also hoping it's not

something along the lines of 'how dare you get that test without seeing any of

us doctors'!

Well, nuts to em if they are annoyed quite frankly, it's progress for me!

[Guest guest]

This is a calculator from the Norwegian Institute for Air Research for how long to stay in the sun for Vitamin D.http://nadir.nilu.no/~olaeng/fastrt/VitD-ez_quartMED.html

On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 3:41 PM, <chrisjtaylor46@...> wrote:

 

i saw a dismissive dr too - i asked her about vitamin d and she said didn't i ever go outside?

they just show their ignorance.

is brief exposure every day going to be enough? i don't think so.

not only that, but are overweight people with no garden and who can't afford a foreign holiday really like to lounge around outside where they can be ridiculed?

they are very ignorant and a disgrace to their profession. if they tested and said 'it's ok' then that's something else, but just to dismiss it out of hand shows their ignorance.

>

> I have just changed GP because of the attitude of the last ones (they have given up now as the answer hasn't magically appeared) - I've only seen the nurse so far (for the new patient appt which is when I requested the blood tests), I would guess it's best to see a Dr first and see what they say then do the letter?

Yes i think see a dr first, give them a chance to be different and explain the situation maybe?

chris

>

> Thanks Sheila.

>

> Oddly this has all come around via me trying to get tested for vitamin D deficiency (which only I suspect - drs have actually laughed at me when I've suggested it), due to chronic bone pain in various places (worst in ribs/feet). It was researching that that led me here via a recommendation from someone else as the two things seem to be related and I have the hypo symptoms as well.

>

[Guest guest]

Well, I got my referral!

There was debate about 'normal' results, and at one point I had to giggle

because the Dr seriously asked me if I was a medic - all because of him starting

to say 'the TSH - that comes from the brain...' and I said 'yes, the pituitary.'

Guess he's not used to people knowing the big words!

Anyhoo he is not convinced despite my big ol' list of symptoms, but credit to

him, he did say that he would be prescribing outside his comfort zone so the

best thing to do would be to refer him as per my letter (which he's attached to

the referral request).

Thanks all

[Guest guest]

Brilliant Niki - just the type of story I luv to read. Well done

and I hope you get a good referral and all ends well.

Luv - Sheila

Well, I got my referral!

There was debate about 'normal' results, and at one point I had to giggle

because the Dr seriously asked me if I was a medic - all because of him

starting to say 'the TSH - that comes from the brain...' and I said 'yes, the

pituitary.' Guess he's not used to people knowing the big words!

Anyhoo he is not convinced despite my big ol' list of symptoms, but credit to

him, he did say that he would be prescribing outside his comfort zone so the

best thing to do would be to refer him as per my letter (which he's attached to

the referral request).

_

[Guest guest]

Luck you - my doc has refused to prescibe outisde her comfort zone. Just shows

there's a real lottery when it comes to care - you will be receiving treatment

and getting better while I will be feeling worse with no medication.

Utterly ashamed at the NHS.

>

> Brilliant Niki - just the type of story I luv to read. Well done and I hope

> you get a good referral and all ends well.

>

> Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

As another example of lottery care.   I had been taking T3, prescribed  by a private doctor for 5 years, when my GP and endo put their foot down to stop me taking it.    I asked the endo if he ever prescribed T3 and he had the cheek to say that he did but only for patients who had moved into the area from another area and who had been prescribed it before.  That I had been prescribed it by a private doctor for five years meant nothing.     

LilianLuck you - my doc has refused to prescibe outisde her comfort zone.  Just shows there's a real lottery when it comes to care - you will be receiving treatment and getting better while I will be feeling worse with no medication.

Utterly ashamed at the NHS.

[Guest guest]

I suspect had I not gone in there expecting to have to fight for it, and armed

with my letter already just in case, I'd be in exactly the same position as you

- I've just learned over the past two years (and beyond) to be very pushy and

assertive.

That said, as I said in my first post I have had to change docs to get this

progress - I've no doubt if I was still at the old place I'd be no better off.

>

> Luck you - my doc has refused to prescibe outisde her comfort zone. Just

shows there's a real lottery when it comes to care - you will be receiving

treatment and getting better while I will be feeling worse with no medication.

>

> Utterly ashamed at the NHS.

>