Heart Rate 120 - have been prescribed beta-blockers :S

[Guest guest]

Hi everyone,

I've posted this message in NTH Europe as well - but thought perhaps this groups

members might also have some comments/opinions on my situation

31 year old Australian woman in Denmark here.

Feeling a little deflated and scared today. I have been taking 120mcg of Thybon

(t3 only) per day and doing well, if not a little hypo on it (I had my reverse

T3 clearance in august 2010) - I increased the dose to 125mcg about a day or two

ago to see if that helped ease some of my symptoms (I still seem to have some

hypo symptoms - my temps are not high and my pulse was going ok at about 84 to

88bpm) and have

ended up with a heart rate of about 120bpm last night and this morning which

doesn't feel good!!

Went to a regular doctor who is very nice but is not involved in my thyroid

treatment (she acknowledges that t4 was not good for me but that she doesn't

know enough about it to help me). I had a cardiogram?? (where they attach

electrical things to you and measure your heart rate) and it showed a very high

heart rate but NOT artial fibrillation (thank god).

I was super scared about that after reading Shomon's latest post about self

treating.

Anyway - my doctor has prescribed me beta blockers (the smallest dose - 25 mg of

metoprolol called Selo-zok here) which I am to take twice a day for the next

couple of days as I reduce the dose of Thybon in the hope my heart rate comes

down again (I think it will) I am picking up the beta block in about 4 hours.

After my heart rate comes down I have been told I can stop taking the beta

blockers (which should be in two days) then I'm seeing my doctor again on

thursday.

I am scared to take the beta blockers (I'm sure I've heard others have had

problems with them??) but my doc assures me it is safe so I will do it if my

heart rate hasn't come down by tonight. I would like to hear others

opinions/ideas on taking beta blockers though.

My sodium level was low on himmalayn rock salt (138 when it needs to be at least

142) so I recently switched to the stronger celtic sea salt - I take 1/2 tsp 2

to 3 times a day. Perhaps the increase in sodium levels have resulted in a rush

of thyroid hormone into my cells?? I don't know :S

I also came off lithium completely a few months ago (under the suggestion and

guidance of 2 doctors - I did it slowly over many months and have remained well

on T3) and am wondering if my need for thyroid hormone has reduced as a result -

that I am over-treating - I don't know.

My basal temp was normal at 36.6 degrees C.

I haven't had a free T3 test for months (since before switching to

Thybon)because noone will do it for me - my holistic doctor should but we

haven't been able to afford it. I'm going to call Mum and see if she will help

me out with a free T3 test and if so I'll get it done asap.

There is a chance the endocrinologist I have been referred to, who I am seeing

in June, will help me out - but I'm not holding my breath.

So - feeling a little scared and upset today but at least I don't have atrial

fibrillation :-S I had been fine since I dropped the dose of my T3 to 120mcg,

until last night!

Alana

[Guest guest]

Alana,

Beta blockers stop the conversion of T4 into t3. If you're not taking T4 then

you don't need to convert it so in theory you won't have a problem.

BUT.... 125 of T3? That's one hell of a dose. Do you have some sort of

cellular resistance to the T3? If you've stopped all the T4 for some time,

then you shouldn't be making reverse t3 to get rid of the t4.

Can't you use an independent lab for t3 testing? In the uk we have a choice of

labs and we can get tests done privately....... Many of us use genova

diagnostics......

There could be many reasons why you are having to use so much T3, have you

checked copper, iron folate, B12, Zinc, Ferritin and D3? They all need to be

optimal to work properly.

I too read the Shomon scare mongering about self treating, I don't know

what tune she is dancing to, but it doesn't seem to be of much help to those of

us who decide to look out for ourselves, having been let down by the medics...

I decided to ignore it and take my chances

Also, when my own heart rate rose to 120 for a week or so, the doc said it was

because I had a virus - sure enough when the virus went the heart rate dropped

back.... are you sure you haven't caught something wehich is making you feel

rough?

.

>

> Hi everyone,

>

> I've posted this message in NTH Europe as well - but thought perhaps this

groups members might also have some comments/opinions on my situation

[Guest guest]

Very interesting about the virus - I ALSO seem to be developing a virus - I have

a red raw throat (see post below). What did you do to bring your pulse down when

you had the virus??

Also interesting about the beta blocker and t4 to t3 conversion - doesn't affect

me but I still don't like taking them! I've never had to take them before and I

expect to be off them as of Thursday.

Yes it is a high dose of T3 lol. I used to take 95mcg of Tertroxin (in

Australia) but am now on 125mcg of Thybon (In Denmark - from Germany) - I had to

increase the dose (according to symptoms, temps and pusle) because it seemed to

be much weaker. However, I now actually think it may be pooling in my blood. I

have dropped the dose a little today and ordered a blood test from my doctor

(see post below)

Thanks for the test suggestions - I've never had copper tested but the others

seem to be ok after testing and taking supplements.

Thank you so much for your response - I feel better now.

Yes, it is a little unfortunate that is taking a stand against self

treating when there is nothing most people in the UK can do about it apart from

staying very sick. I like that she is trying to prompt change though - it's

NEEDED.

Here is what I posted in the NTH Europe group to update everyone - I think I'm

gonna make it through ok! hehe.

Ok - feeling a little less stressed and upset now! I've taken the beta-blocker

and my usual doses of sea salt and other vits including increasing my vit C a

bit and my pulse has come right down to normal again (between 80 and 84). My

temps looks ok - basal 36.6, 2pm 36.9 and 5pm 37 degrees c.

Now that I think about it - I actually think I have some temporary adrenal

stress due to having a relatively big weekend and seem to have blocked sinuses

and seem to be developing a throat infection (it's quite sore and red - as in

viral or infection red). I think resting up a bit and treating the throat

infection will work.

I've lowered the T3 dose a little to take some stress of the adrenals and I've

ordered a free T3 test - just waiting on my holistic doctor to tell me when to

come in to have my blood taken (this test is WELL overdue - I've been dosing by

temps, pulse and symptoms since last september).

Not taking any hydrocortisone or isocort as my morning cortisol level was very

high last time I checked - the rest of the levels good.

I can't afford an aldosterone and renin test yet but it's on the list and taking

sea salt seems to be helping. I think it's a little low.

A very recent saliva test for adrenals revealed normal cortisol levels.

I am quietly confident that come Thursday I'll be off the low dose of beta

blockers again and if I have an infection it will be treated and I'll be back to

normal!

I've been feeling really good of late until last night!

Anyways - that's my update. Will let the group know what happens on thursday - I

expect it to be good news!

Alana

>

> Alana,

>

> Beta blockers stop the conversion of T4 into t3. If you're not taking T4

then you don't need to convert it so in theory you won't have a problem.

>

> BUT.... 125 of T3? That's one hell of a dose. Do you have some sort of

cellular resistance to the T3? If you've stopped all the T4 for some time,

then you shouldn't be making reverse t3 to get rid of the t4.

>

> Can't you use an independent lab for t3 testing? In the uk we have a choice

of labs and we can get tests done privately....... Many of us use genova

diagnostics......

>

> There could be many reasons why you are having to use so much T3, have you

checked copper, iron folate, B12, Zinc, Ferritin and D3? They all need to be

optimal to work properly.

>

> I too read the Shomon scare mongering about self treating, I don't know

what tune she is dancing to, but it doesn't seem to be of much help to those of

us who decide to look out for ourselves, having been let down by the medics...

I decided to ignore it and take my chances

>

> Also, when my own heart rate rose to 120 for a week or so, the doc said it

was because I had a virus - sure enough when the virus went the heart rate

dropped back.... are you sure you haven't caught something wehich is making you

feel rough?

>

> .

>

[Guest guest]

Shomon's scar

mongering about patients self-treating caused a massive upset for a great many

people. For goodness sake, she has been doing the job long enough to surely

know it is the medical profession that is driving patients to self diagnose,

self treat and self monitor. They have NO other choice. Heaven help us all if

we followed her recommendations and left it to the doctors, who are supposed to

know what they are doing, but don't!.

Dr Peatfield was so

angry about this that he wrote a piece specifically for us to put into our web

site so others all of this problem could be put into perspective. See : http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/self_medication.php

I too read the Shomon scare mongering about self treating, I don't know

what tune she is dancing to, but it doesn't seem to be of much help to those of

us who decide to look out for ourselves, having been let down by the medics...

I decided to ignore it and take my chances

.

[Guest guest]

If you are taking beta blockers you won't absorb your thyroxin very well by all

accounts.

[Guest guest]

I suspect that someone has put a scare to her about advocating self treatment so I think she must have put that out to stop herself being sued or something -you know how litigious the USA is. thyroid treatment From: sheila@...Date: Tue, 3 May 2011 17:01:45 +0100Subject: RE: Re: Heart Rate 120 - have been prescribed beta-blockers :S

Shomon's scar

mongering about patients self-treating caused a massive upset for a great many

people. For goodness sake, she has been doing the job long enough to surely

know it is the medical profession that is driving patients to self diagnose,

self treat and self monitor. They have NO other choice. Heaven help us all if

we followed her recommendations and left it to the doctors, who are supposed to

know what they are doing, but don't!.

Dr Peatfield was so

angry about this that he wrote a piece specifically for us to put into our web

site so others all of this problem could be put into perspective. See : http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/self_medication.php

I too read the Shomon scare mongering about self treating, I don't know

what tune she is dancing to, but it doesn't seem to be of much help to those of

us who decide to look out for ourselves, having been let down by the medics...

I decided to ignore it and take my chances

.

[Guest guest]

Alana,

When I had the virus and the fast heart rate, I didn't do anything to bring it

down.... I just rested and as I was on my own I got the neighbours to look

after the dog so I didn't even have to walk him.

Glad yours has gone down with the beta blocker, but really if it's a virus, it's

rest you need..... (and chocolates!! )

x

>

> Very interesting about the virus - I ALSO seem to be developing a virus - I

have a red raw throat (see post below). What did you do to bring your pulse down

when you had the virus??

>

[Guest guest]

Shomon's scare-mongering about patients self-treating caused a massiveupset for a great many people.

----------

She may just be protecting herself and her Web site.

The United States is the most litigious country in the world: Any excuse goes to hire a lawyer and to sue for just about any reason.

That's one of the reasons medicine is so expensive in the States; doctors are constantly getting sued and must have expensive protective insurance.

I'm not excusing her scare-mongering, as I'm one who self-treats. Just aware that she has done a lot of good getting thyroid problems out into the public (and medical) eye and that her Web site has invaluable information for us all.

Fibrojay

[Guest guest]

Alana

You could try taking 500mgs Magnesium to bring down your heart

rate. Works amazingly well for most people.

Luv - Sheila

Alana,

When I had the virus and the fast heart rate, I didn't do anything to bring it

down.... I just rested and as I was on my own I got the neighbours to look

after the dog so I didn't even have to walk him.

Glad yours has gone down with the beta blocker, but really if it's a virus,

it's rest you need..... (and chocolates!! )

x

---

___

[Guest guest]

Hello fibrojay, yes, I truly appreciate that in the State it is

all too easy to be sued and the great need to avoid possible litigation at all

costs. It is just that when people are driven by medical practitioners into self-diagnosing,

self treating and self monitoring (especially here in the UK), they really

don't need others telling them that they should not be doing it and advising

them to be guided by their doctor - when it is the lack of education in the field

of the workings of the greater thyroid system that should be tackled strenuously,

in order that sufferers CAN trust their doctor to give them back their optimal

health. This is what ALL advocates of thyroid disease throughout the world should

be concentrating on and working on together.

To me, even though does an enormous amount of work to get

thyroid problems into the public and medical arena and who keeps an up to date

and very informative web site, it should not even hinted at blaming the poor

sufferer or blaming those trying to help them. Most of what she writes makes

sense, and it is groups such as hers, Janie's NTHormone and Thyroid Patient Advocacy

that go out of their way to help those sufferers who have been driven by their

doctors to self medicate. However, what I personally disagree with is the hint

of 'blaming' patients, or others, in such statement as:

·

" Some doctors, as well as officials from the FDA have told me,

off the record, that they feel that negative publicity - including in medical

journals -- regarding thyroid self-medication has moved natural desiccated

thyroid drugs into an unwanted limelight - and has resulted in them getting

greater scrutiny by the FDA.

Also -

·

" A controversial aspect for some patients is my belief that

actively promoting self-medication - and in particular, promoting

self-medication with natural desiccated thyroid -- ultimately can work against

thyroid patient interests " .

We, (and I am speaking for TPA only) do NOT and would not 'promote'

self medication, or self medication with NDT. We are here to help all our

members regain their optimal health as safely and effectively as possible, when

they have no doctor who is able to help them. If they make up their minds to

self medicate that is entirely up to them, and that is their right - the

alternative being to do nothing, receive no treatment (or the wrong treatment)

and remain ill for the rest of their lives. TPA for one, is here to help members

in the safest and most effective (and legal) way possible. It was statements

such as those that caused such upset with members of thyroid forums throughout

the world.

It would be the best thing since sliced bread if all thyroid advocates

throughout the world worked together to do whatever is possible to get this rotten

system changed.

Sheila

She may just be protecting herself and her Web site.

The United States is the most litigious country in the world: Any

excuse goes to hire a lawyer and to sue for just about any reason.

That's one of the reasons medicine is so expensive in the States;

doctors are constantly getting sued and must have expensive protective

insurance.

I'm not excusing her scare-mongering, as I'm one who self-treats.

Just aware that she has done a lot of good getting thyroid problems out into

the public (and medical) eye and that her Web site has invaluable information

for us all.

Fibrojay

[Guest guest]

Sheila -- I agree with you totally.

I just feel that has done a lot of good in putting out necessary information and that good should be recognized.

Patients in both the US and the UK are too often misdiagnosed, unrecognized and forced to self treat. I now live in France, but I've dealt with Hashimoto's in three countries (South Africa, France, USA, now back in France) -- all with totally different medical cultures.

In the States, I was lucky enough to have a holistic GP who put me on the old Armour.

In France, NDT is not legal, so I get blood tests and self-treat with Erfa Thyroid.

I am a member of US, UK, French and European forums. As a journalist, I appreciate information and I continue to learn from all of these forums. I try to share what I know when I can.

I appreciate totally the amount of work you do and have offered to help with translations.

But I can also appreciate the amount of work that is done by others. I just was trying to explain the different legal climate in the States.

Questions: Have you ever written your American counterpart directly to ask her why she doesn't believe in self-treatment? Or why she wrote that recent article?

We know that neither she nor TPA can give direct medical advice or promote self-treatment.

And again, thanks for all you do.

Fibrojay

[Guest guest]

Hi Fibrojay, I agree with you and appreciate that has done,

and is doing, great work and this work should be recognised by all - as should

Janie's in the US, along with other thyroid advocates who are working

tirelessly. Yes, I did at the time write to asking the question why she

doesn't believe in self-treatment. I have written a more detailed response to

you privately.

Luv - Sheila

Sheila -- I agree with you totally.

I just feel that has done a lot of good in putting

out necessary information and that good should be recognized.

Questions: Have you ever written your American counterpart

directly to ask her why she doesn't believe in self-treatment? Or why she

wrote that recent article?

_,_._,___