Re: Yet another way to keep us ill

[Guest guest]

I agree , if not a conspiracy, it's definitely deception. Just as the UK

has a north/south divide over wealth, we have the informed/uninformed in

medicine. Where would many of us be without the resources of the internet?

I've often wondered whether TV producers are censored over highlighting the

medical professions ineptitude and incompetence, because many documentaries are

made on " cowboy " builders, plumbers, electricians and other tradesmen ripping

off the end consumer?

Bill

[Guest guest]

>

> PS The links to related articles under the one posted above are equally scary.

>

Very scary.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7965417.stm

I had an appointment at a NHS hospital with the Professor quoted in this

article. He told me he rarely prescribes T3 and never Armour or any other animal

thyroid. He was quite happy to leave me with ill health on Levothyroxine to the

point that I was applying for sickness benefit.

I am self treating as I have a brain and I can work out for myself from this so

called and I quote 'potentially misleading information available on the web.'

which information is correct and how to apply it to myself.

I sat in his clinic waiting room and could tell who was still ill. I spoke to a

few patients just asking how long they had been coming to the clinic and it was

years. Years of continuing ill health if you ask me.

>

[Guest guest]

Thyroid disorders

'misdiagnosed'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7965417.stm

People with suspected

thyroid disorders are being mistreated and misinformed, experts have warned.

British Thyroid Association

doctors say some people are being given the wrong tests and the wrong

treatment.

That's because the Royal

College of Physicians, the British Thyroid Association et al produced 'new'

guidance on the diagnosing and management of primary hypothyroidism 2 years

ago, telling doctors that ONLY thyroid function tests (TSH with a measure of

T4)should be taken into account when trying to diagnose a patient's symptoms.

They tell doctors they should not give a diagnosis if TSH is within the

reference range of 0.5 to 10.0 - this range is the widest in the WORLD and is

clearly stopping doctors from giving their patients a trial of thyroid

hormone replacement. Should they DARE, they know they stand the chance of

being watched closely with a possible reporting to the GMC.

NHS doctors abide by expert

guidelines - but the BTA says the problem comes when patients go outside the

NHS.

It's those patients who go " outside of the NHS " who are

getting back their normal health. Why do we have almost 2200 member's joining

our forum if the NHS was giving the correct information to doctors and

doctors were giving them back their normal health.. This is clearly getting

at Doctors such as Dr Peatfield, Dr Skinner, Dr Myhill and all the other

doctors who DARE to diagnose and treat outside of the NHS guidelines.

Around 3% of the UK

population has an underactive thyroid, which should be diagnosed with a blood

test and treated with a synthetic hormone.

Around 25% of the UK

population has an underactive thyroid. Signs should be taken into account as

well as symptoms, as should basal temperature, symptoms, family history, past

medical history and a thorough clinical examination. Note the mistake made

above " ….which should be diagnosed with A blood test " TUT,

TUT!

An under-active thyroid, or

hypothyroidism, develops when the thyroid gland produces too little

thyroxine, and it is becoming more prevalent because of the ageing

population.

An under-active thyroid

(rightly called " hypothyroidism " ) means an under active thyroid

gland which is not secreting sufficient thyroid hormone. They forget that

many thyroid glands ARE producing the correct level of thyroid hormone

secretion so the blood tests (TSH, Free T4, free T3) show normal. They

conveniently forget that some of these patients still have many of the symptoms

of hypothyroidisms because the thyroid hormone being secreted is not being

properly absorbed at the cellular level, and these patients are suffering

with Euthyroid Hypometabolism, or resistance to thyroid hormone at the

cellular level - so they need the ACTIVE thyroid hormone triiodothyronine

(T3) either synthetic, or natural thyroid extract.

Symptoms can include being

very tired, feeling the cold, having difficulties with memory or

concentration, weight gain and fertility problems.

….and many, many

more - whether the thyroid gland is not secreting sufficient thyroid hormone

or the thyroid hormone it IS secreting is not being properly utilised at the

cellular level.

These are symptoms that can

mimic other conditions, and experts warn an incorrect diagnosis could mean

some patients could suffer harmful effects from excess thyroid hormones,

while other serious conditions may go undiagnosed.

The Royal College of

Physicians (RCP) recently set out guidance for how hypothyroidism should be

diagnosed and treated in the UK.

Remember that doctors

can, according to the Department of Health' choose whatever

'guideline/guidance/statement they wish to use, even if has been written in

another country. So long as a doctor can tell you, or anybody that should

ask, WHY he has chosen that particular 'guideline/guidance/statement' on the

diagnosis and management of hypothyroidism. Doctors in the UK DO NOT HAVE TO

FOLLOW ANY GUIDELINE/GUIDANCE/STATEMENT WRITTEN BY THE RCP, THE BTA OR ANY

OTHER ORGANISATION.

It says the only accurate

way to diagnose a thyroid disorder is via a blood test which measures hormone

levels, and the only scientifically proven way of treating the condition is

by topping up a patient's natural thyroxine levels with a synthetic form of

the hormone.

The RCP, BTA et al.

'statement' is ONLY accurate when measuring the secretion of the hormones thyroxine

(T4) and triiodothyronine (T3)produced by the thyroid gland. These blood tests

do NOT detect 'Type 2' Hypothyroidism, defined as peripheral resistance to

thyroid hormones at the cellular level.

But the BTA warns that

information on the web and in the media about alternative ways of diagnosing

and treating the condition are leading people to turn to alternative methods

of diagnosis and treatments.

But the TPA warns that there is misleading (and in parts),

incorrect information on their web site and in their

guidelines/guidance/statements on thyroid function testing and that

endocrinologists should learn about the 'alternative' ways of diagnosi8ng and

treating the condition as doctors used to diagnose and treat using natural

desiccated thyroid extract, adding synthetic T3 to T4 or using synthetic T3

alone. It is BECAUSE patients suffering the symptoms and signs of

hypothyroidism are OT regaining their optimal health on levothyroxine (T4)

-alone, that patients are doing the necessary research and finding using

these 'alternative' therapies is what gives them back their health.

It says urine tests, saliva

tests and measuring body temperature are not reliable ways of diagnosing the

condition.

The 24 hour urine test

is more reliable than blood tests because this actually tests the level of

thyroid hormone being used in the tissues and at the cellular level. The BTA

thyroid function tests ONLY test the level of free TY4 and free T3 circulating

in the blood. Basal body temperature testing is a good indication the patient

is suffering with hypothyroidism but it is not 100% accurate.

Confusion

Dr Amit Allahabadia, the

secretary of the BTA who wrote the editorial, said: " This is potentially

an enormous problem, given that in any one year, one in four people in the

United Kingdom have their thyroid function checked.

What actually IS

potentially an enormous problem is that doctors are taking no account of

symptoms, signs, family history, the patient's medical history, testing for

antibodies to the thyroid and not performing a thorough clinical examination

- again, relying on the results of TSH (secreted by the pituitary gland) and

a " measure of T4 " . It is well known that TSH testing in particular

can be flawed. A search on PubMed showed 126 such cases. Unfortunately, TSH

doesn’t always respond correctly to low thyroid hormone levels. If the

actual thyroid hormones themselves (T4 and T3) are not checked,

hypothyroidism can be missed. We're aware of several cases of

hypothyroidism with low thyroid hormone production and a normal TSH level.

He added: " I think it

is essentially doctors who are outside the NHS [who] may be misdiagnosing the

condition. I am almost certain it is doctors who work outside of the NHS 'guidelines/guidance/statements

that are misdiagnosing the condition. NHS doctors are diagnosing depression,

anxiety, sleep disorder, over-eating, fatigue, weight gain,

constipation CFAS, ME, FM etc. Relying on TSH alone, even with a

measure of free T4 misses a lot of cases of hypothyroidism, or Eythyroid

Hypometabolism. Dr Allahabadia would do well to listen to these doctors who

know how to return such patients to their optimal health. However, one notes

that he does write " may be misdiagnosing " . Also, the BTA are

using old data and a 'normal reference range' that is too large when

determining whether or not the TSH level is normal. This means that many

people are being told that they have a normal thyroid function when,

according to the latest scientific standards, they are actually suffering

from the symptoms of hypothyroidis.

" Patients may go to

see them when they think they have an under-active thyroid, or when tests

have shown they have normal hormone levels but they still feel ill. "

Of course they do, if

the NHS refuses to give them a diagnosis and a trial of treatment of

thyroxine, or thyroxine doesn't work for them, they do their research to find

a doctor who does understand what s/he is doing outside of the NHS.

Dr Allahabadia said he

believed a " significant minority " of patients were affected, either

directly through misdiagnosis or mistreatment or because they were being

confused by inaccurate information.

Members of TPA are being

confused with inaccurate information given by the RCP, BTA et al.

Professor Trainer,

who chairs the clinical committee of the Society for Endocrinology which

represents the specialists who treat thyroid disorders, said: " Our

sympathy has to lie with the patient because there is potentially misleading

information available on the web.

Tis nice to know

Professor Trainer's sympathy lies with the patient - this is good, but again,

he is as responsible as all the other active members of the BTA committee for

giving out potentially misleading information, which they make readily

available on their web site. Rarely do they back up their statements on the

diagnosing and management of thyroid disease with scientific evidence.

" It can be confusing

for patients, and it can be difficult for GPs when they are confronted with

that information, which is why the RCP guidance was published. "

Right on! It is

confusing for patients and difficult for GP's when they are threatened that they

should not give a diagnosis or prescribe any form of the active thyroid

hormone T3 outside of their recommendations unless it has been approved by

" an accredited endocrinologist " . This takes away autonomy from

doctors. The RCP might have 'published' the 'guidance/statement - but the RCP

was not the author. All the UK endocrine/thyroid associations authored that

document and they knew they could get away with such a guidance/statement by hiding

under the umbrella of the RCP's Royal Charter. As such, this cannot be

challenged, not even by the Privy Counsel.

Just my two pennies

worth!

Luv - Sheila

Please see this latest 'news':-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13221928

If the medical profession were not so blinkered about the alternatives to

thyroxine perhaps I might have regained more of my health and self and they

might not find themselves in the position of having to deny treatment to

patients as they age.

PS The links to related articles under the one posted above are equally scary.

Lovin the sunshine - must be the Vit D making us all feel better!!

Regards all

[Guest guest]

Hi I think a few more responses are needed to this article -There is only one so

far which is very good - gives everybody a chance to say what they think

-google BMJ2011 342 .d2238.. No response would mean we agree with what is said

..Also it may help some of the medical profession to do a bit of thinking off the

party line.

[Guest guest]

BMJ article on osteoporosis . Nobody has ever tried to scare me about this

..Maybe it is because I had a bilateral hip replacement a few years ago .

One of the statement made is that with ageing thyroid hormone production

decreases . therefore as we get older we require a smaller dose - {I think that

I have got that about right] Now since many people are undertreated [still have

hypo symptoms] how low a dose are they talking about??? This article really

needs some replies -it is rather long but FREE . However the editorial by prof L

is not free but perhaps long enough to reply to .

[Guest guest]

When the DoH are supposed to be making budget cuts, has it never dawned on them that they and the regulatory bodies are indirectly responsible for allowing the cost of sickness benefits spiralling out of control? This in turn also creates animosity between the employed (the taxpayer)and the unemployed (viewed as a benefit scrounger due to ill health)But, it could easily be avoided, as Dr P states, "treat the patient withMark 1 eyeball and the Mark 1 earhole. Look and listen."

An analogy that springs to mind. What's the point in filling plaster cracks in the wall of a house until you've checked whether the house is subsiding and needs to be underpinned? Just another pennies worth? When we're supposed to be making budgetcuts.

[Guest guest]

Hello Bill, I guess it never will occur to them that they are

indirectly responsible for allowing the cost of sickness benefits to spiral out

of control. I wrote the attached letter to my MP (think it was about last

October) hoping to get some action, but all I received was a letter from him to

me saying he had approached Lansley (then Secretary of State for Health)

who stated they would not be doing anything regarding this because they had

already approached 'the experts' in this field (the British Thyroid Association

and the Royal College of Physicians) and they have to take on board what they

'the experts' say. They absolutely refuse to see that it is the BTA and the RCP

that are behind all of this mess.

You might want to copy this letter yourself (putting in your

name and address of course) and send it to your MP to see if you get any further

than I have managed to get.

Luv - Sheila

When the DoH are

supposed to be making budget cuts, has it never dawned on them that they and

the regulatory bodies are indirectly responsible for allowing the cost of

sickness benefits spiralling out of control?

This in turn also creates animosity between the employed (the taxpayer)

and the unemployed (viewed as a benefit scrounger due to ill health)

But, it could easily be avoided, as Dr P states, " treat the patient with

Mark 1 eyeball and the

Mark 1 earhole. Look and listen. "

An analogy that

springs to mind. What's the point in filling plaster cracks in the wall of a

house until you've checked whether the house is subsiding and needs to be

underpinned?

Just another pennies worth? When we're supposed to be making budget

cuts.

1 of 1 File(s)

Letter to MP.doc

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, thanks for your letter. I'll mention it to my MP who is currently persuading the Coroner to open an inquest into my late partners death and liaising with Lansley. I have no political persuasion as we're wise enough to realise that it's the Whitehall Mandarins, and not the politicians, that run the country.

The truth is that fewer drugs would be required for less medical conditions and Big Pharma would go bankrupt. Perhaps Pfizers have seen the light by closing their R & D at Sandwich, Kent?

But, wasn't this a Greater Britain when, 50 years ago, we were manufacturing material goods instead of todays medical drugs industries?

Bill

[Guest guest]

All doctors remind me of my old dog, he couldn't stand cats, when he was young

he'd chase them, when he got old he would pointedly look in the other direction,

his view was 'If I can't see it - it doesn't exist'.....

Lately I have been standing up to my endo and gp. I've got to the stage where I

am fed up with being treated like a naughty 5 year old who has nothing else on

her mind than dressing up like a fairy and living in a dream world. (Not that I

do that, its a metaphor!!)

I asked my endo why I needed TSH, he tried to discharge me

I asked my gp - she hadn't a clue

I asked another gp who freely admitted he had no idea - after he'd gone through

the bumf about measuring TSH to tell whether you've gone hyper rather than hypo.

I'm simply fed up of the bull****! After my endo tried to discharge me I sent

him 7 pages of references as to why my TSH was suppressed and the fact that it

was not dangerous. I'm not seeing him till July but I bet he hasn't even looked

up any of them!!!

When you think about it, taking any prescription drug, no matter what for or for

how long, has its risks, if we are grown up enough to read and understand the

risks - why can't they be?

Glynis

[Guest guest]

You are so right Glynis.    They prescribe me this new kind of insulin, the worst side effect can be death.   They said they had to explain this to me so I am informed before they prescribe it.Yet, the very same endo would not prescribe T3 because of the 'dangers'.    I do not think the danger of T3 is worse than the danger of death from the drug that they are quite happy to give me.

Lilian

[Guest guest]

>>>>'If I can't see it - it doesn't exist'..... <<<<I have always suspected that that is the reason why the labs wont do the T3 test when asked.

My GP kept telling me I was being medicated adequately with thyroxine but only the TSH and T4 were done. My TSH was midway in its range and my T4 was right at the bottom but still within range.

When I had a private blood test done I had the T3 done as well. When I showed the result (below range) to my GP I was told that they took no notice of T3. If the doctors are not going to take any notice of it, why should the labs spend time and money testing for it.

All Ostriches with their heads in the sand.

Lilian

[Guest guest]

Hi Lilian- There must be numerous people like you and I who have TSH and T4

tests well within " reference range' but turn out to have under the range T3

which is really the only one that matters . I think the reluctance to do T3

tests has more to do with the fact that it shows the TSH is not a reliable test

.. I have had two T3 tests done under the NHS {however only 2 out of 6 were

completed] TSH -3.0 T3 -borderline TSH-3.6 T3 abnormal . For me I conclude the

TSH test was and is a waste of time and misleading to me and the GP.As things

are at the moment it seems necessary to 'look after our own health' as the

medical profession are failing us in a way that at one time I did not believe

possible .