Re: Help with new blood tests please!

[Guest guest]

These are from 11/01/11 and i was taking no NT and 10 HCTSH - 3.0(0.4-4.0)FT4 - 12.9(12-22)FT3 - 4.4(3.0-6.2)When I was on 2 grains and 12.5 T3 and 25HC - 5 months agoTotal Throxine - 41.6 (58-154)TSH - 0.012 (0.4-4.0)FT4 - 8.04 (10-22)FT3 - 3.9(2.8-6.5)FT4 - FT3 Ratio - 2.1(2.0-4.5)Why is my tests when im taking no NT better than the ones when im taking NT andT3?

Hello Leisa,

The test off Naturethroid was not actually `better', just different for various reasons. Although there is nothing wrong with the combination of thyroid hormones and HC as you had taken, it makes it difficult to interpret a thyroid panel, because of drug interaction and different ratios. Looking at your test 5 months ago:

You were taking 25 mg HC, which is a glucocorticoid, and this would have knocked your TT4 (total thyroxine) figure down, so it might look lower than it actually was; however, your FT4 corresponds with the TT4 figure (both were too low, but at least there was no contradiction) and the FT4 is not usually so influenced by non-thyroidal medication, but there is also to consider that the T4:T3 ratio in NDT is more "T3-weighty" than a healthy human thyroid gland would supply, so you would expect the FT4 figure to be lower in relation to the FT3. In addition it may be worth looking at any other non-thyroidal medication you may have been taking and check if any of those might be known to interact. Your FT3 was not high enough, but again, it is difficult to say that categorically as this figure might have been knocked since you (presumably) had taken no thyroid hormone for 24 hours before the blood draw. The FT3 in our blood gets used up pretty rapidly (within hours) and all a blood test tells you is what is still left circulation in your blood, not your cells.

When someone takes a mix of HC, NDT and T3 – to my mind – the most meaningful parameters to look at are the TSH and FT3.... the TSH should be low or suppressed (and yours was) and the FT3 should be at least in the upper third or the top of the ref range; this would tell you that your cells have sufficient T3 to live on.....in your case above your FT3 was still too low – I would expect a figure around 5+, given that your TSH showed a suppressed figure, which would indicate that the body has sufficient thyroid hormone to function. So IMHO at the time you would have needed either a bit more NDT or T3, or both, to bring both the FT4 and FT3 up.....

Another explanation could be that you may have a problem with your pituitary function and the previous suppressed TSH was spurious..... although, your current TFT does not suggest this, since your TSH, now that you are off NDT, has risen, indicating that thyroid hormones are too low and need replenishing.... so it looks like the pituitary gland is doing what it is expected to do.Your recent test reflects just that ....FT4 and FT3 are both too low, and the TSH has risen, indicating that you need to get some thyroid hormone into you. The burning question is just in which form -NDT or T3 only or a combination again? I do not know the reason why the Naturethroid had made you feel awful, but you do need to get some thyroid hormones into your cells somehow. I would first of all check all those minerals and vitamins: Ferritin, Magnesium, Folate, Zinc, Copper, Vit B12 and Vit D3.... if you were low (even if low within the ref range) in any of those, that could have the effect of preventing the hormone from getting into the cells. Obviously, you are already dealing with the cortisol side of it, since you say you take HC. That leaves to check yourself for the possibility of a Candida Albicans infection – have a look in the files, there is a questionnaire which might give you an idea if that is likely. Yeast overgrowth could also have the effect of preventing thyroid hormone from getting through to the cells.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

.... Sorry, I have forgotten to mention something else... - please ask your doctor to also check your thyroid antibodies - TPO, TgAB and TRAB. A high autoantibody count could also have an effect on TFT figures and might give some spurious results... so it is worth noting what is going on with those AA's.

[Guest guest]

LEISA, PLEASE WILL YOU LEAVE JUST A SMALL PORTION OF WHAT YOU ARE RESPONDING TO

AND DELETE THE REST BEFORE CLICKING SEND. LUV - SHEILA

_____________________________________________________________

Hi

Thank you so much for your reply. I didnt realise HC could knock your T4 down a

bit, this makes the tests make more sense. I do think im not absorbing thyroid

meds properly as every 2 or 3 months on NT i would go toxic and have to stop for

a week.

I did have low ferritin (22) when i started taking NT and havent had it tested

again since but i have been supplementing 50mg for a year and a half so hope

this has come up. My D3 was very low, something ridiculous like 6, but have

been supplementing. I am seeing my GP in a couple of weeks so am hoping he will

do a full iron panel and the tests you suggested. Do you know if the NHS will

test D3, i think the GP told me last time he wouldnt?

You have made me think about candida. I had discounted this as being the cause

as i had a test for it about 3 years ago and it came back as being present but

not at a level i should worry about. A couple of years ago i went on Dr W

protocol for lyme and took a lot of antibiotics, it was an absolute nightmare it

made me so ill! I guess the antibiotics could have raised my candida, so maybe

i should retest it. Just wish we could get these tests on the NHS!

I do have hashis, i found that out from a private test but when the NHS tested

it found i didnt! Does having hashis mean your thyroid levels change all the

time?

I really dont know what i should do about thyroid meds, i was hoping to find the

underlying problem before i start again. I was actually thinking of trying just

T4 as i have tried NT and T3 and not tolerated them well. I know just T4 isnt

thought of as a good thing but do you think it would be worth me trying?

The other thing i was thinking of is mercury posioning, i have loads of

fillings. Do you know if the NHS would test for this also?

Sorry for rambling on and asking so much questions! Thanks so much for your

help.

Love Leisa

> Your recent test reflects just that ....FT4 and FT3 are both too low,

> and the TSH has risen, indicating that you need to get some thyroid

> hormone into you. The burning question is just in which form -NDT or T3

> only or a combination again? I do not know the reason why the

> Naturethroid had made you feel awful, but you do need to get some

> thyroid hormones into your cells somehow. I would first of all check all

> those minerals and vitamins: Ferritin, Magnesium, Folate, Zinc, Copper,

> Vit B12 and Vit D3.... if you were low (even if low within the ref

> range) in any of those, that could have the effect of preventing the

> hormone from getting into the cells. Obviously, you are already dealing

> with the cortisol side of it, since you say you take HC.

[Guest guest]

Hello again, Leisa,

I do think im not absorbing thyroidmeds properly as every 2 or 3 months on NT i would go toxic and have to stop for a week.Well, this is not how it should be – it sounds as if either something is preventing the T3 from getting into the cells, or you have conversion problems, and you body is not making T3 from T4.... I would not know which.

I did have low ferritin (22) when i started taking NT and havent had it testedagain since but i have been supplementing 50mg for a year and a half so hopethis has come up. My D3 was very low, something ridiculous like 6, but havebeen supplementing. I am seeing my GP in a couple of weeks so am hoping he willdo a full iron panel and the tests you suggested. Do you know if the NHS willtest D3, i think the GP told me last time he wouldnt?

It is vital that you get those checks done again. If your levels for either of them have not come up significantly since the last check, then that could explain why you become thyrotoxic on your meds after a couple of months. And yes, you definitely can get a D3 test get on NHS – I should know, I just had it done .... found out yesterday that mine is depleted, so I am back on the D3 pills myself ;o) – so please challenge your GP if he tells you porky-pies. He might not want to do it, but there is nothing stopping him from ordering this test; he is probably just trying to save money, but this is too important – you need to know.You have made me think about candida......Just wish we could get these tests on the NHS!

That'll be the day <g>..... no chance, I'm afraid, but equally, it would be useful to know one way or another – sorry ( - You could, of course, just follow Dr. Peatfield's protocol and treat yourself with Fluconazole and avoid all sugars anyway (info is in the files) and see it this makes you feel better. The downside is that taking Fluconazole puts quite a strain on the liver, and I would not like to take it unnecessarily. The sugar-free diet and using natural antifungals however can only do good.....

I do have hashis, i found that out from a private test but when the NHS testedit found i didnt! Does having hashis mean your thyroid levels change all thetime?

Nope – fluctuating thyroid levels are not the criteria - the presence of thyroid autoantibodies is. You would be diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease if you had elevated thyroid antibodies, i.e. TPO, TgAB or TrAB. Those antibodies can be tested for on NHS, although GPs generally don't like ordering those tests –perhaps it's too expensive??.... As far as the progression of Hashimoto's is concerned, I don't think there is any difference between the autoimmune thyroiditis and the thyroiditis caused not by autoimmunity. Treatment is the same too.I really dont know what i should do about thyroid meds, i was hoping to find theunderlying problem before i start again. I was actually thinking of trying justT4 as i have tried NT and T3 and not tolerated them well. I know just T4 isntthought of as a good thing but do you think it would be worth me trying?Finding the underlying cause would be best, of course, as this would give you the best chance of deciding on the right kind of treatment for you.

Trying T4 only (that would be Levothyroxine)? .... hmmm, I can't imagine that this would help.... Did you mean T3-only? That might be worth a try, but won't necessarily be the answer. Someone like our member Nick Foot is very experienced with that and might be able to help you. I know too little about T3-only therapy. There is nothing wrong with T3-only, but before embarking on it, I would recommend to gather a bit of information. I can't imagine that your GP or endo would be agreeable to prescribe T3 as a sole treatment for you, so it would probably mean going it alone, which can feel a bit scary and lonely....we are all here to help, but it would be you, who has to actually 'do' it. Please read through all the info on rT3, read Nick's story and perhaps contact Nick for help.

thyroid treatment/files/RT3%20%20WHAT%20SHOULD%20WE%20DO%20ABOUT%20IT/

The other thing i was thinking of is mercury posioning, i have loads offillings. Do you know if the NHS would test for this also?

Oh dear (.... and yes, amalgam fillings have a lot to answer for. I used to have a mouthful of them too. When Dr. Peatfield diagnosed me hypothyroid, I fought my now ex-dentist tooth and nail to have them out – he refused, which was a good thing, because consequently I found the best holistic dentist in the whole wide world as a result. Downside - it can cost..... a LOT. Upside – It made such a difference to my wellbeing.

I do not know if it is possible to test for mercury poisoning on NHS. In a way it is not even necessary to test, because for as long as you have amalgam in your mouth, you will get systematically poisoned, as mercury vapours get activated and breathed in every time there is friction on the tooth – be it by chewing or brushing teeth. The mercury in the filling does not "lie dormant" as claimed by some dentists, nor will it ever stop giving off vapours, not even after 30 years or so. I can't find the video in my files at the moment, but just google something like "amalgam fillings video" – you should find it... it's an eye opener. I am all for having them out, but it may be a question of money. If you did consider it, please find the right man or woman for the job. It is not just a question of drilling them out – it needs to be done with the right protection in place, else you might finish up with greater mercury poisoning than you started off with.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi

Thank you for replying again, you explain things so well!

I will ask the GP for the tests you suggested and tell him i know he can do a D3

I dont want to pay for a candida test so like you suggested ill try the more

natural route. I have grapefruit seed extract and olive leaf extract in the

cupboard and ill have a look on the net for anything else that might help.

It was just the T4 treatment i was thinking of trying as ive tried the NT and T3

combo and the T3 on its own, so thought i might give it a go, im not sure about

it really. I would rather take T3 but even the smallest amount of T3 made me

feel terrible so i dont know if that means it was getting into my cells or

pooling in my blood. If it wasnt getting into my cells would it have had such a

bad effect on me?

Im really glad to hear youre feeling much better after having your fillings

removed. I would love to have mine removed but like you say it is so expensive,

i just really hope its not them that causing the problem!

I am just in the middle of doing an adrenal spit test today to see if theyre

better or worse than last time! They dont feel much better but will be good to

know!

Thanks so much for your advice

Take care

Leisa

And yes, you definitely can get a D3 test get on NHS

The downside is that taking Fluconazole puts quite a strain on the liver, and I

would not like to take it unnecessarily. The sugar-free diet and using natural

antifungals however can only do good.....

Trying T4 only (that would be Levothyroxine)? .... hmmm, I can't

imagine that this would help.... Did you mean T3-only? That might be

worth a try, but won't necessarily be the answer.