Re: Thyroid antibodies.

[Guest guest]

Hi na,

Yep, I can throw light on it, the doc is out of his depth and baffling you with

bull sh**.

If you have antibodies to your thyroid then you have auto immune thyroiditus,

(Hashimotos disease). This does not go away and it attacks your thyroid

until it stops working. Once you have the antibodies, then it is of little

relevance whether they are high or low, as they change all the time.

How 'normal' is your TSH? a normal tsh is 1. Ask your doctor for the

number, along with the reference range, also, do you have results for free T4

or free t3? Unless the doc has measured free t4 as well as TSH, he is

playing a guessing game...... although the raised antibodies should give him a

clue......

Ask for the test results and post them on here, although you probably need a

referral to an endo if your doc is this incompetent....

x

>

> Hi Everyone,

>

> Can anyone tell me whether it is possible that I have hypothyroidism or not.

My TSH is normal but I have loads of symptoms I thought may be my thyroid.

[Guest guest]

Yes,

it is possible - the membership of this forum is made up of hundreds who have

so called 'normal' TSH yet suffer many of the symptoms and show many of the signs

of hypothyroidism. With thyroid antibodies of 300, you have Hashimoto's, which

is a cause of hypothyroidism. Thyroid antibodies see your thyroid gland as

public enemy number one and set about its complete destruction over time. If

you are already suffering symptoms, this must not be ignored and as your GP is

only a GP and not a specialist in thyroid disease, he needs to refer you to an

endocrinologist.

Get

your GP to do this by writing him a letter and sending a copy to the Head of

Practice. In that letter, list all of your symptoms and signs. Check these

against those in our web site under 'Hypothyroidism' www.tpa-uk.org.uk

..

Next,

take your basal temperature for 4/5 mornings before you get out of bed and if

less than 97.8 degrees C (36.6 degrees C), list these too.

List

any members of your family who have a thyroid or autoimmune disease.

Next, list the blood tests you would like done, on the thyroid side,

beside the TSH you also need to know your free thyroxine (fT4) level and your

free triiodothyronine (fT3) level. You also need to know whether any of the

following minerals and vitamins are low in the reference range: ferritin,

vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc. Should any of

these be low, your thyroid hormone cannot be fully utilised at the cellular

level until whatever is low is supplemented. Ferritin levels for women need to be between 70 and 90

(for men around between 150 and 170). Vitamin B12 needs to be at the top of the

range. D3 levels need to be about 50.

Magnesium levels need to be at the top of the range, it's one

thing that gets missed a great deal.

Should your doctor tell you

that there is no connection between these minerals and vitamin levels and

thyroid disease, enlighten him by citing the following references:

Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3

conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism

boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as

indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in

diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered

adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)).

1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron

deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative

and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2.

SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic thyroid

hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat. Life Sci

1993;53(8):603-9.

3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium

Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to

Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone

Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low  copper/zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Next,

ask for a referral to an endocrinologist as you are entitled to a second

opinion and believe me, with this particular doctor, you need a second opinion.

You can choose who you would like to see and I will send you my list of doctors

recommended by our members.

Next,

ask for your letter of requests to be placed into your medical notes, send a copy

to the Head of Practice and keep a copy for yourself in case you need to refer

to it at a later date.

Hypophosphatasia is an inherited disorder that affects the

development of bones and teeth. Somebody in your family must be carrying this

gene. This condition disrupts a process called mineralization, in which

minerals such as calcium and phosphorus are deposited in developing bones and

teeth. Mineralization is critical for the formation of bones that are strong

and rigid and teeth that can withstand chewing and grinding.

Beside

the list of symptoms for hypothyroidism http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/symptoms_hypot.pdf

in

our web site, see here the symptoms of hypophosphatasia - you will see that they

are very different to hypothyroidism http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/h/hypophosphatasia/symptoms.htm#symptom_list

I

hope this helps and good luck with your GP in getting him to treat you properly

as a patient.

One

last tip, never, never, never let a doctor tell you that your blood test

results are " normal " . Ask for the actual figures together with the

reference range for the tests done and post them here on the forum and we will

help with the interpretation.

Luv

- Sheila

He said it was ok as it was only 300, normal he said was 0-50 but it is ok

until it reaches about 2,000. I am confused! He said I have a 1 in 5 chance of

having trouble in the future and I should retest in one year & see if I

have symptoms. I pointed out that I already have symptoms & so he said,

" Ok 6 months then " ! Can it be possible to be hypothyroid with a

normal TSH? It is also thought that I have Hypophosphatasia & so I'm not

sure what symptoms are from what. I checked my temperature orally in the

morning with a mercury thermometer and it varied from 36.2C to 36.6C- my pulse

was always below 60 on waking. Is anyone able to throw light on this please?

Many thanks

__

[Guest guest]

Hi there, you have hashimoto`s disease and any auto-antibodies over say 20 is positive for this doctors always ere on the cousous side and don`t treat until they are very high. go to our files and find studies that you can print out to show your doctor that you need treatment now, as you need to stop the attacks. he is not the expert on this so you need to learn all you can so as to be able to take charge of your health.this is 3 times more than mine and you need treatment ASAP. ask to see a specalist one who no`s a out the thyroid, not all do . some specsalise in diabetes. I am sorry but i had a little laugh when you said your doctor told you not to worry . don`t take all he says as correct you need to question every thing. angel

[Guest guest]

Can anyone tell me whether it is possible that I have hypothyroidism or not. My TSH is normal but I have loads of symptoms ...... He said it was ok as it was only 300, normal he said was 0-50 but it is ok until it reaches about 2,000....... I checked my temperature orally in the morning with a mercury thermometer and it varied from 36.2C to 36.6C- my pulse was always below 60 on waking.

I would say from your anti-body results that you have auto-immune thyroiditis or Hashimoto's disease. It sounds like you may be at the beginning of your illness. I say this because it took a year for my doctor to diagnose me. I had four tests. Sometimes I had anti-bodies, sometimes not. This is because the auto-immune attack is not continuous at the beginning of the disease. So your doctor is waiting for you to be in a continuous state of auto-immune attack before prescribing treatment. If I were in your position with the knowledge that I have now, I would do the following.

(i) Go on a gluten free diet (this helps with auto-immune diseases, might help your vitiligo)

(ii) Find out about the Iodine Protocol (this also helps with auto-immune thyroid disease, bringing down the anti-bodies)

(iii) Find out about RT3 (This often accompanies auto-immune thyroiditis, look on wikipedia and www.thyroid-rt3.com and www.stopthethyroidmadness.com. It can be a big source of stress and aggravate auto-immune attacks)

The Iodine Protocol and a gluten free diet seem to have brought my Hashi anti-bodies down. I got rid of my RT3 (which my doctor never told me about!!) and that has improved my symptoms.

Even when I had "satisfactory" test results, I had aching arms and found it hard to stay awake during the day and I was freezing cold. If you act quickly with these measures you may be able to avoid a deterioration of your health. I took synthetic T4 for four years and my condition just got worse and worse. If I had gone on to a T3 containing drug straight away I would probably never have had the aggravation of symptoms that I had.

Besides my three points, I also heartily agree with all the details that Sheila put in her reply. It can take years to get your health back once your condition has started to slide. And it can be expensive. You need to leave no stone unturned. Your doctor will probably pooh-pooh all the advice that you receive in this forum, but it is worth getting the NHS to finance as much as possible and using all measures to get them to do their job properly That's what you pay your taxes for.

In the position you are in now, if you act quickly you may be able to avoid a serious aggravation of your condition. You don't have to believe everything your doctor tells you. Be very cynical in your dealings with him or her. Most of them don't know what they are talking about with thyroid disease. And I am a person who used to do absolutely everything the doctor told me!

By the way, having an reading of 300 for either of the two anti-thyroid anti-bodies that are measured to see if you have auto-immune thyroid disease is definately NOT NORMAL. Your doctor does not know what he is talking about. Be careful. I have never had reading over 600 and I felt pretty ill at one time. Goodness know what state I or anybody else would be in with 2000! You don't want to find out the hard way.

Good luck with what happens next,

MacGilchris

[Guest guest]

Thanks Angel, The sicker you are it seems the less you can trust a doc. I lost

confidence years ago when I was laid up with M.E. Wouldn't mind if only they

would admit they didn't know instead of pretending that they do. I will

certainly pursue treatment. Its interesting to hear that your antibodies are 3

X less than mine but that you need treatment. I thought I was dopey & a poor

specimen, such foggy brain & poor energy, falling asleep (thermal long 's &

water bottles in summer!!) etc etc A friend & my own mother have been saying

for years that I had a thyroid problem, but always a normal TSH. Now for the

first time I realise that I just need the right help. Many thanks, I hope you

are much better now.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Thanks , if this is only the beginning, I certainly don't wont the middle

or end! Actually although upsetting to hear I have a problem its also

encouraging to think that if I can find the right treatment I may feel 'normal'.

Could that be possible, what a lovely thought! Gluten free could be difficult

for me due to multiple food allergies. I tolerate wheat but not corn. I

already eat loads of rice. My upset tummy is improving though by avoiding lots

of foods and so maybe eventually I will find a substitute for wheat (tend to eat

spelt flour).

I cried when I read the following! " I had aching arms and found it hard to

stay awake during the day and I was freezing cold " you were describing me! I

sometimes actually fall asleep while eating!

Thankyou for the references re Iodine protocol & to research RT3 - will check it

out. I am encouraged that you were able to affect the condition favourably &

reduce antibodies. All the best to you .

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Although I don't trust GPs I had no idea that he was making it up - thanks,

doesn't surprise me! I seem to recall that he did do a T4 test but cant find a

result. I do have the following going back some years, different GPs. I can

remember once I was really worried because of memory problems (always cold).

1999 - TSH 2.78 (range 0.5-5.0 mu-l)

2000 - TSH 1.4 (range 0.3 - 4.5)

2004 - TSH just told it was " normal "

2009 - TSH 2.02mu/L (range 0.35-5.5)

2010 - TSH 1.66 (range 0.35 - 5.5)

My ferritin is ok apparently at 54.2 ug/L (range 20.0-300.0) but

my Mean Cell Haemoglobin concentration 31.7 g/dL (range 32.0 - 36)

not sure what that is.

I have had some recent blood tests but need GPs permission to get copies.

I do have other abnormal results due to another condition that I am in the

process of getting a proper diagnosis for (hypophosphatasia). My Gp pretended

to know something about it but soon had to admit he didn't have a clue!

Thanks for info ,

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila,

It will take me a little while to work through all the info you have posted.

Very helpful indeed, thank you.

Always suspected I had thyroid prob but never showed up. So many health

problems, some may be connected to the hypophosphatasia but seems perhaps most

could be from the thyroid. I feel a little bewildered as to where to start. I

know my GP will be difficult. I may go privately initially to get things

started quickly and in the right direction. Hoping an endo' will do both

private and NHS. I am willing to travel. I will peruse your list & maybe

consult others here for more info if needed. I have plenty to be reading to get

educated anyway thanks to you and others here.

Hope to be able to attend one of your get togethers sometime (live in Essex).

Thanks again,

[Guest guest]

....

So you could have been hypothyroid in 1999! A TSH of more than 2.5 would get

you treatment in many countries (but not in the UK)... this 'doctor' you're

trusting with your health is a joke.

Ferritin not great, really needs to be between 70 and 90.

I imagine life is bad enough with a bone problem, insist on treatment for the

hypothyroidism or a referral to a competant endo.

What special permission does the doctor have to give for test results you are

legally entitled to? Write to the head of practice and say that under the

terms of the 2001 freedom of informations act, you are entitled to know the

results and the reference ranges of all testing which is undertaken. Say

that yopu would like the results of all thryoid tests for the past X years and

enclose a stamped addressed envelope. You do not have to explain why you want

the results.

x

>

>

> Hi ,

> 1999 - TSH 2.78 (range 0.5-5.0 mu-l)

> 2000 - TSH 1.4 (range 0.3 - 4.5)

> 2004 - TSH just told it was " normal "

> 2009 - TSH 2.02mu/L (range 0.35-5.5)

> 2010 - TSH 1.66 (range 0.35 - 5.5)

>

>

> My ferritin is ok apparently at 54.2 ug/L (range 20.0-300.0) but

> my Mean Cell Haemoglobin concentration 31.7 g/dL (range 32.0 - 36)

> not sure what that is.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks ,

I will certainly follow this up! There are things in my records that are not

accurate and I did challenge my previous dr (in the same practice). I asked him

to correct it. When I later asked if he had, he said it was not possible, he

had tried. I did recently learn about being able to have access to records if

you request it in writing but admit to being unable to face the fuss. I will

have to rethink! I would really like copy of all my previous blood results for

my own records, especially as he was not even going to mention my abnormal

thyroid antibodies.

Thanks for advice & encouragement.

x

>

> " What special permission does the doctor have to give for test results you

are legally entitled to? Write to the head of practice and say that under the

terms of the 2001 freedom of informations act, you are entitled to know the

results and the reference ranges of all testing which is undertaken. Say

that yopu would like the results of all thryoid tests for the past X years and

enclose a stamped addressed envelope. You do not have to explain why you want

the results. "

>

> x

>

> ---

[Guest guest]

Hi

Just a quite note to add to 's - I was very hesitant on asking for my copy blood tests after being told normal all the time, but in the end spoke to a really lovely receptionist who arranged for a copy of my whole history (including blood tests for the last ten years I think). It included all the reference ranges and cost me £10. I didnt even have to speak to my GP (who is really nice and usually so helpful but is soooo condescending over anything other than T4 treatment that it is not worth even mentioning!)

So for the sake of a telephone call to a nice receptionist (hopefully) it will give you a real insight into your condition over the last few years. Good luck.

Colleen

From: julianadivarna <julianaraymondo@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Wed, 11 May, 2011 9:07:43Subject: Re: Thyroid antibodies.

Thanks ,I will certainly follow this up! There are things in my records that are not accurate and I did challenge my previous dr (in the same practice). I asked him to correct it. When I later asked if he had, he said it was not possible, he had tried. I did recently learn about being able to have access to records if you request it in writing but admit to being unable to face the fuss. I will have to rethink! I would really like copy of all my previous blood results for my own records, especially as he was not even going to mention my abnormal thyroid antibodies.Thanks for advice & encouragement.x> > " What special permission does the doctor have to give for test results you are legally entitled to? Write to the head of practice and say that under the terms of the 2001 freedom of informations act, you are entitled to know the results and the reference ranges of all testing which is undertaken. Say

that yopu would like the results of all thryoid tests for the past X years and enclose a stamped addressed envelope. You do not have to explain why you want the results."> > x> > ---

[Guest guest]

Colleen thanks for encouragement. Unfortunately our receptionists

have refused to give results to me before but I will see my GP and

ask. Oddly enough whilst sorting out old some papers today I noticed

a bill for old blood tests at a private hospital, one was for T3, T4 &

TSH in 2007. At the time I was unaware of what I was tested for and

never given a result (I had severe food allergies/ " IBS " at the time).

It will be good to have something to compare a new test with .....

just need to gather myself to get the doc to agree to do them &

retrieve the old one, presuming they sent the result to him. Thanks

again,

[Guest guest]

Good luck with your docs appointment. I am about to phone a recommended endo in London to see what the waiting time for an appointment is. If not too long I will hopefully (she says??!?) try and get a referral from my GP. Meanwhile I am fed up with all the waiting and telling me there is nothing wrong (even though hypo for over 10 years now and taking 125-150 mcg of T4 daily and feeling rotten) so have ordered some Nature throid to start myself on. If this makes me feel half as good as I used to I will give up with docs! The problem I have is that my docs are so nice but you have to be incredibly tough to argue with them about thryoid problems. I found getting blood results was easy - it was arguing for the tests I found

hard!

After finding this website recently it gave me inspiration to argue after so long of feeling ill - and reading everyone's problems just makes you realise you have to do it yourself - the NHS wont help unless you really are admanant and insist on further treatment. As I have severe arthritis and take some extremely powerful drugs for this, my docs are so quick to blame everything on either the arthritis or the drugs - even though I argue that I had these symptons long before the arthritis became bad or even started the medication!

At least this website gives us all hope that we WILL become better eventually! How brilliant is that!!!

Colleen x

From: granville <julianaraymondo@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Sat, 14 May, 2011 23:06:06Subject: Re: Thyroid antibodies.

Colleen thanks for encouragement. Unfortunately our receptionists have refused to give results to me before but I will see my GP and ask. Oddly enough whilst sorting out old some papers today I noticed a bill for old blood tests at a private hospital, one was for T3, T4 & TSH in 2007. At the time I was unaware of what I was tested for and never given a result (I had severe food allergies/"IBS" at the time). It will be good to have something to compare a new test with ..... just need to gather myself to get the doc to agree to do them & retrieve the old one, presuming they sent the result to him. Thanks again,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Your receptionists have no right to refuse to give you your

blood test results. I guess they can refuse to do so until they have passed

your request to your GP - but no NHS staff can refuse you these, or any of the

other information that is in your medical notes (you might have to pay for the

latter) but the girls in reception at my doctors surgery simply get them up on

screen, write them down for me and pass them to me quite happily - check out http://www.nhs.uk/chq/pages/1309.aspx?categoryid=68 & subcategoryid=160

Unfortunately our receptionists have

refused to give results to me before but I will see my GP and ask. Oddly enough whilst sorting out old

some papers today I noticed a bill for old blood tests at a private hospital,

one was for T3, T4 & TSH in 2007. At the time I was unaware of what I was

tested for and never given a result (I had severe food

allergies/ " IBS " at the time).

It will be good to have something to compare a new test with ..... just need to

gather myself to get the doc to agree to do them &

retrieve the old one, presuming they sent the result to him. Thanks again,