New member, test results, Armour, and looking for a doctor

[Guest guest]

Hi all,

My name is and I found your group as I was surfing the Internet

yesterday, looking for some advice. What I'm about to write is very long, so I

really appreciate your efforts in reading and responding, should you choose to

do so!

I quit smoking in February 2010; in May/June 2010 I was undergoing a really

stressful period of exams (my last year of law school) and wasn't working out

very much. I gained a lot of weight in a very short period of time - close to

20 pounds. I chalked it up to having quit smoking and going through a lot of

stress.

In September 2010, I went to the doctor, complaining of some absolutely brutal

IBS symptoms - constipation, gas, diarrhea - the works. I also hadn't had my

period for almost 4 months and I was starting to get worried as I knew I wasn't

pregnant.

The doctor told me to wait it out and come back in a few weeks if I was still

feeling ill. Well, sure enough I was still feeling poorly in mid-October, and I

was sent for some blood tests on 20 October 2010. I was complaining of IBS

symptoms, I had a constant eye tic, I was so depressed to the point that I

didn't want to get out of bed in the morning, I had no period, bloating to the

extent that I looked pregnant, and I had gained a lot of weight, which is very

abnormal for me as I'm naturally really skinny. It was absolutely awful. I've

always been so healthy my entire life and all of a sudden I experienced this

downward spiral into hell. I was absolutely miserable.

Sure enough, my blood tests came back with the following results:

TSH 360 (0.3 - 4.2)

FT4 5.6 (9.0 - 26.0)

(unfortunately I don't have the FT4 numbers for this test)

The doctor put me on 100 mcg of Levo. Subsequently, I started to lose a lot of

hair, which subsided after taking the medication for about 2 months. I went for

further blood tests 19 November 2010 and the results were as follows:

TSH 12.36 (0.3 - 4.2)

FT4 14.7 (9.0 - 26.0)

FT3 4.6 (2.5 -5.7)

In between my first and second blood test, my period came back, albeit

irregularly, and the bloating and IBS symptoms subsided a fair bit, as did the

eye tic.

He also test for the thyroid peroxidase antibodies, which was positive for

antibodies at 452, the normal range being 0 - 75.

So as a result, he increased my medication to 125 mcg.

My period also came between the second and third blood test, albeit 2 weeks

late.

I went back again for blood tests on 30 December 2010, and the results were as

follows:

TSH 0.64 (0.3 - 4.2)

FT4 14.4 (9.0 - 26.0)

FT3 4.8 (2.5 -5.7)

I asked him if I could increase my dosage to 150 mcg and he was reluctant to let

me do so as he was worried that he would push me into hyperthyroidism, but he

said to try as it couldn't hurt in the long run.

After my appointment, I did not increase the dosage I was taking until 3 days

ago; for the past 3 days, I've been taking 150 mcg. I decided to increase it

because I've been feeling hypo for the past 2 or 3 weeks; I'm yet again gaining

weight inappropriately, and the IBS symptoms are back in a serious way. I just

want to fit in my clothes again, I want my tummy to be okay, and I want to feel

happy. I feel so miserable, to the extent that I'm starting to act like a

hermit!

I moved last week so I've had to switch doctors. I have my first appointment

with my new doctor this Thursday, and I want to ask for the following things:

- a prescription for Armour because I imagine I will lose the hypo symptoms

(this is what the reading I have done seems to say);

- a referral to an endocrinologist;

- more blood tests; and

- whether this means I have Hashimotos or not, since I am confused.

I don't know if they will give me Armour or another natural thyroid medication

and I don't know if he will be sympathetic or if he will go by the usual TSH

interpretation. Nor do I know if he will refer me to an endo.

If I have no luck with him, can anyone suggest any good doctors on the NHS in

London?

I have found out about Dr S in Birmingham, but I've just finished university,

am looking for a job and I don't have the money right at the moment to go for a

consultation with him.

I have also read about Dr P, but he charges as well and I just can't afford it

at the moment, but I really want a prescription for Armour as I'm hoping I'll

have some better luck on this medication.

Alternatively, I DO have private health insurance with BUPA; does anyone know of

any sympathetic endos on BUPA?

If you are at all inclined to respond (I would really appreciate any

information!!) and would like to do so privately, my email address is

samanthasigler AT gmail.com

Thank you very much,

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

A warm welcome to our group - and WOW..... not many of us have had as dramatic a TSH and FT4 as you .... and to answer one of your questions straight away – Yes, you do suffer from Hashimoto's disease - also known as autoimmune thyroiditis - without the shadow of a doubt. A positive count of TPOs (thyroid peroxidise antibodies) alone would be diagnostic for it, but with your initial TSH and FT4 there is no question mark at all over the diagnosis.

I must say, your previous GP did not hang about, did he? To start you on a dose of 100 mcg Levothyroxine was a bold move... and not one that I would have done straight off (usually you start with 25 mcg and build up every few weeks), but your body obviously tolerated it. Mind you, you were so deficient, your body must have thought it had died and gone to heaven when the thyroid hormone finally arrived. I can't imagine how you must have felt with a TSH of 360 ..... mine was only 7.6 when I was diagnosed and I felt like something I had trodden in.

Your last set of tests in December looked still too low (both FT4 and FT3 should at least be in the upper third or near the top of the ref range) and you were right to increase ... As you are probably aware, now that you are diagnosed and treated, the TSH is of no further value, unless it goes up again (which would be a sign that your cells are starved of thyroid hormone again) ... this is incidentally not something you will hear from your GP or endo. Most physicians are slaves to the TSH and try to regulate a patients medication by TSH only .... BIG mistake!

Now – to your other questions....

I don't know if they will give me Armour or another natural thyroid medicationand I don't know if he will be sympathetic or if he will go by the usual TSHinterpretation. Nor do I know if he will refer me to an endo.

Very, very few endos are prepared to prescribe NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) on NHS, although there are a few who will. I do agree with your notion to switch to natural desiccated thyroid – to my mind it is vastly superior to a synthetic T4-only containing medication like Levothyroxine. I used to be on Levo for one year and although I improved, I never really felt `good'. Different story when I switched to Armour thyroid – I now feel great.

My advice – chose your endo carefully. It is your right to chose any consultant anywhere in the country, NHS or private. Select who you want to see and then ask your GP for a referral to him or her. Sheila has a list of doctors who are sympathetic to prescribing either Armour thyroid or at least a combination of T4 and T3. If you ask her, she will send you this list privately.

Just an additional thought .... if your doctor were not willing to prescribe Armour thyroid for you on NHS, then do ask straight away if he/she would be willing to monitor you if you bought it yourself. Armour thyroid does not break the bank and you can buy it on line without a prescription – either from the US, Canada or Thailand. Depending on which product you chose, it would cost you roughly £ 150 a year (depending on dosage, of course) ... half that if you went for the generic Armour thyroid from Thailand, which, incidentally is very good - I take that myself.If I have no luck with him, can anyone suggest any good doctors on the NHS inLondon?

Yes, there is a highly recommended endo in London on Sheila's list ....he does both, NHS and private.

I have found out about Dr S in Birmingham, but I've just finished university,am looking for a job and I don't have the money right at the moment to go for aconsultation with him.I have also read about Dr P, but he charges as well and I just can't afford itat the moment, but I really want a prescription for Armour as I'm hoping I'llhave some better luck on this medication.

As I said, I fully agree with you wanting to switch to NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) and strictly speaking you do not even need a doctor to do a switch.... many of us have just bought the meds and done it (myself included). If you just wanted to do the switch, you could buy NDT and we can tell you exactly how to do that. It is your choice. If you wanted to do it by the book, then you should go and discuss it with your doctor – only brace yourself, as you may have a battle on your hand and even if you succeed, it often takes several weeks (months even) before you will actually hold an NHS script for it in your hand. The usual procedure is that the endo has to clear it with other doctors in the surgery and then there is the admin side of it, and that can take time.....Alternatively, I DO have private health insurance with BUPA; does anyone know ofany sympathetic endos on BUPA?

I would imagine that most private endos on Sheila's list would be registered with Bupa, although I don't think Dr. S. in Birmingham is.

You also asked about further blood tests – there are some additional tests that should be done -

a) You should check if your adrenals are working sufficiently. If you look in our files, you will find an adrenal questionnaire – fill it in and see how you fare. If the test result shows that your adrenals are weak, you may need to support your adrenal function with minerals and vitamins. – please read all about you can find in the files on the adrenals. – In addition, please ask your GP or endo to check your AM-Cortisol with a blood test.

Also check yourself for Candida Albicans..... that's yeast overgrowth, and if you suffered from that, you need to tackle the problem ASAP. All the info you will also find in the files. Yeast overgrowth will prevent thyroid hormone from getting into the cells....

c) Ask your GP for the following blood tests: Ferritin, Magnesium, Zinc, Folate, Copper, Vitamin B12 and Vitamin D3..... if you were low in ANY of those – even low within the ref range – that could prevent sufficient T3 from getting into your cells, where it is needed.... so in effect you could have perfectly normal looking Thyroid figures, yet your cells might still be deficient of the hormone, because what gets measured is the hormone in the bloodstream, not the cells....

Furthermore - if you do not already have Dr. Peatfield's book "your thyroid and how to keep it healthy", I would highly recommend for you to get it. It is excellent and will explain all there is to know about thyroid and adrenals.

Best of luck – and please keep asking questions if anything is unclear... we are all here to help if we can.

[Guest guest]

Hi ! Thank you so much for your reply, and for taking the time to read

my initial message. I really appreciate your feedback and your thoughts. I

feel like I'm fighting this on my own and it's so great to have some people out

there who are going through the same thing and can provide some good, useful,

and helpful advice.

Re: your comment about my high TSH and FT4... I didn't realise that it was

really bad! But from your message, I take it that they were exceptionally high

and low, respectively.

It is also good to confirm that I have Hashimotos. My doctor said that I just

have autoimmune thyroiditis, but he is a GP and while he seems great because he

was testing for FT4 and FT3, endocrinology is not his speciality. He seems

pretty open-minded though, so I'm happy that I found him initially. Now, I hope

to find someone even better!

In retrospect, you are right - within 3 days of first taking the medication, I

felt drastically different and vastly better. My mood was much improved and the

awful IBS problems had subsided.

Like you felt on Levo, I don't feel so great - and I really do want to feel

great; I want to have my life back... so I'm going to try my best to find myself

NDT and I might very well self-medicate, if need be. It's such a shame that

thyroid patients feel as if they are in that situation and I wish that there was

more medical support in the UK for thyroid patients. I am actually Canadian,

and while I'm happy living here, I wish I could be treated back home!

Your advice re: buying it myself and asking the doctor to monitor me is an

excellent point. I shall do so, if need be.

I will print out your answer and conduct further research on the other points

you mentioned.

Again, thank you so much!

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

You're very welcome. Any questions – just shout ....

I would just like to clarify one point – your former GP has not misled you. Autoimmune thyroiditis is Hashimoto's disease – it's just another name for it.

Not every form of Hypothyroidism is autoimmune, although most are (think the figure is 90%, but not sure). The word thyroiditis means "inflamed thyroid" and although it is in common usage, strictly speaking a person is not truly "hypothyroid" until the thyroid gland is dead as a dodo for one reason or another – in the autoimmune form that means it's destroyed, in the classic form of thyroiditis the thyroid gland would shrivel up until it can no longer function. The end result is the same, as is the treatment.

The most common criteria for diagnosing autoimmunity in thyroid disease is the presence of positive thyroid autoantibodies, and you have plenty. It must be said, however, that it is possible to have autoimmune thyroiditis without a positive autoantibody count....they may exist inside the thyroid gland but not be in the bloodstream; this is rare, but possible. Furthermore, those AAs (autoantibodies) go up and down all the time in line with their frequent attacks on the thyroid gland. Those attacks will happen and there is nothing one can do to prevent them, although it is believed that optimal thyroid hormone treatment will ease the attacks and reduce their frequency.

The actual number of AAs in a blood test is of secondary importance to their presence.... i.e. you would suffer from Hashimoto's whether you had just one antibody too many or have them in their hundreds (some even in their thousands). It is commonly believed that we Hashi's will have positive AAs until they have succeeded in destroying our thyroid gland - this is their purpose and it will usually take years – and by then they will have burned themselves out and will disappear. Although advisable to have an AA check at least once a year, this is just to monitor the general progress. If the count is high, you will know that some active process is going on at the time, if its low(er) then the AA's are currently holding fire.

The following link explains the whole thing quite well, except I had to laugh at the second sentence, where it says `it is a fairly rare autoimmune disease....' ; it's anything but rare - it's common as muck <g>

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-autoimmune-thyroiditis.htm

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/hashimotos/ an excellent site – worth browsing around in.

Just to help you with your search .... the places to buy NDT from are:

http://www.valuepharmaceuticals.com/Armour-Thyroid.php They sell generic Armour. It is made by Erfa in Canada and is simply called `Thyroid'. On the on-line form just tick 'no prescription required' and nothing more. They will accept your c/c payment.

This is the NDT that most of our members use. It is the closest to the "old" Armour formulation and is produced in Canada. The most sensible and versatile size to opt for from them is 500 pills of the 1 grain (60 mg), because you can split them easily and make up whatever dosage you need until you have reached your optimum.

http://www.internationalpharmacy.com/en/products/search/armour/1

This is the original "Armour" – but it is the new formulation, and many patients have complaint about it – others say it's fine....

http://www.1drugstore-online.com/showprice.asp?name=thyroid & bysearch=ok & Go.x=0 & G\o.y=0This is the link from Thailand. They sell all kinds of useful drugs, which might come in handy (so save the website even if you opt for one of the other makes). It's a reputable website. I have bought my meds from them for the past 2 years and am very happy with it – never had a problem (last famous words!) – They sell Thyroid S and something called Thiroyd (it's generic Armour – no spelling error). Personally I favour the Thiroyd, Thyroid S has too many fillers for my liking. I buy 1000 pills and keep them airtight in the fridge – they last perfectly. They can even be frozen if unopened and keep for years – that goes for them all, btw.

A word about prices.... when ordering from the US or Canada your parcel is likely to be fished out by UK customs and you will be notified that you have to pay the VAT (20% now) and a handling charge for Royal Mail of £ 8 and until you have paid that they won't deliver the goodies. All my Thai parcels have – so far – gone through unchallenged. So this is something else to bear in mind.

Also – this site may help you to decide on which product to opt for if you have to buy it yourself .....

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands/

Good luck,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks again for the information... the cumulative knowledge on this web site

must be enough to put most of the thyroid endocrinologists in the UK out of

business!! I'm really grateful for the explanation and it's a shame that my

doctor can't explain this to me in such depth.

Yes, that STTM site is amazing and it led me to this group. I found it on

Saturday and spent most of Saturday reading everything I could on STTM and

following links to other sites.

It's super that I can buy the medication without a prescription. I was actually

going to ask where I could buy NDT from so thank you for pre-empting my query!

I'm going to hold fire until Thursday, when I see my new doctor - I'll wait to

see whether he is pre-disposed to giving it to me via a prescription and then

go from there. Hopefully he'll be at least willing to monitor me, as you

suggested.

I will be back soon for dosage information.

So, do most people here do their own private blood tests because their doctors

don't support their self-medication with NDT?

Thanks again and best to you,