Re: Some Tests Results in at Last!

[Guest guest]

At last, I have some test results for my daughter(12.5yrs) - I am not sure ifthese indicate anything, so I would be very grateful for your advice.THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 2.28 mIU/L (0.27 -4.2)FREE THYROXINE 17.7 pmol/l (12.0 - 22.0)FREE T3 6.7 pmol/L (3.5 - 7.7)Thyroglobulin Antibody 18.8 IU/mL 0-115(Negative)ModularThyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 21.7 IU/mL <34 (Negative)

Hello ,

Hmmmm – that's pretty inconclusive L ... looks sort of borderline to me . I had hoped for a clearer outcome. The TSH is too high for my liking, but her FT4 is bang in the middle of the range and the FT3 is quite high, considering....(although this does not show how much of this FT3 might be rT3). If it were not for the money, I would suggest a urinary thyroid test with Genova - but where does one draw the line?

Her TgAB count is negative (which is good) but her TPOs are too high within the range to convince me that they might not be higher in another sample. Antibodies go up and down all the time and in a further sample you might see a very different count.

The thing to bear in mind is that it takes years for a thyroid gland to fail. You can get a whole long list of symptoms several months or even years before the blood figures fall into the red. In fact, by the time a blood TFT is positive, about 75% of the thyroid gland has either been already destroyed or (in case of non-autoimmune origin) has stopped working to the same degree for other reasons. I suffered symptoms for 10 years before my thyroid test was finally positive and I got help.

I have just started reading "Why do I still have thyroid symptoms" by Datis Kharrazian and have come across some interesting comments - for instance (quote) A TPO and TGB serum antibody test helps identify Hashimoto's. A negative test is sometimes false as the immune system fluctuates. If symptoms strongly suggest the disease, repeat tests should be done to confirm the diagnosis. Sometimes it is necessary to challenge the patient with gluten before an antibody test. (unquote). He reckons that gluten intolerance is a trigger factor for Hashimoto's and could, in susceptible patients, bring the antibodies out of their retreat. Being gluten intolerant does not necessarily mean the patient suffers from coeliac disease btw. So a coeliac test could well come back as 'normal'.

Let's see what the short Synacthen test will come up with. Did you get anywhere with your referral to St. Barts? – and how is your daughter doing now? And are there other tests outstanding?

I can't remember now – what were your daughter's Cholesterol levels? And what are her basal temps like (first thing in the morning and last thing at night)?

Love,

[Guest guest]

Hi, I would be concerned that her TSH is rather high in the range- though FT4 and FT3 look fine this may indicate that her thyroid is being pushed hard to give the proper output. Antibodies are present, though low, so need watching too. > thyroid treatment > From: m.kidson60@...> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 21:00:57 +0000> Subject: Some Tests Results in at Last!> > Hi All,> > At last, I have some test results for my daughter(12.5yrs) - I am not sure if these indicate anything, so I would be very grateful for your advice.> > THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 2.28 mIU/L (0.27 -4.2) > > FREE THYROXINE 17.7 pmol/l (12.0 - 22.0) > > FREE T3 6.7 pmol/L (3.5 - 7.7) > > Thyroglobulin Antibody 18.8 IU/mL 0-115(Negative) > Modular > Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 21.7 IU/mL <34 (Negative) > > Best wishes,> > > > > > > > ------------------------------------> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication.> >

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

I can feel your frustration and I really feel for you and your family. It is infuriating the way you and your daughter have been treated by this endoprat, but fortunately they are not all quite as bad as her. I doubt if she has ever seen a cushingoid child, so what does she know ! Good that you have an appointment now for the ACTH stim test. Presumably you will be staying with your daughter during the test, so you can make sure that they do it properly. Your daughter needs to be fastened since the previous evening and she should lie down for the duration of the test. I have heard reports where people were sent walkabouts in between the procedure and told to come back in half an hour .... definitely a no-no.

"How will the test be performed?"

You may be asked to lie flat and/or quiet with no external stress for the duration of the test.

An initial blood sample will be taken to check the baseline level of cortisol.

You will then be given an injection of ACTH (AdrenoCorticoTropic Hormone) to stimulate your own body's production of cortisol.

A blood sample will be taken at 30 minutes, and sometimes at 60 minutes, after the stimulation to measure the cortisol level.

The above is taken from http://www.addisons-network.co.uk/ad_tests.html which is an 's site, but it gives useful info on how a test should be interpreted. It is very unlikely that your daughter might suffer from 's but there is still her bafflingly low salivary adrenal profile; there must be a reason for that.... I am not familiar how a possible Cushing's result would be interpreted, but I think the cortisol measurement after 30 mins would have to be pretty high and the starting point would probably be in the `normal' range; in case of Cushing's the cortisol level would probably shoot up after injection of ACTH, way beyond the normal response (which would be a doubling of the base cortisol level, but must reach >500). A possible pituitary malfunction can also be detected via a Synacthen test and I think that is where it gets complicated and needs a really good endo to draw the correct conclusions.

I assume you will be called in the afternoon or the next day with the results. Please ask them to email, fax or send by post a copy of the results straight away, inclusive of the ref ranges that have been used, so that you physically hold the results in your hands and can take it to a competent endo for interpretation. It is likely that a nurse will just read out the numbers and comments by the lab, without understanding what they mean. The results will then presumably go to the endoprat who ordered the test, and I would not trust her judgement at all.

As far as I know no one has tested her cholesterol levels. I haven't taken herbasal temperatures recently, but, in the past I have done Dr Rind's graphs andthat showed large fluctuations in temperature throughout the day - often gettingas low as 36.3.

Cholesterol is usually part and parcel of a normal Biochemistry when they check all the usual functions - liver & kidney function and a haematology to check the red and white blood cells.... - has this never been done? Those are usually the first routine check a doctor orders. Perhaps they can include all of that when they take the first blood for the Synacthen test ? It's worth asking and it certainly would be worth having some general results.

If Cholesterol were high – or high within the norm, that can be an additional sign for low thyroid hormone.

It is interesting that you have done the Dr. Rind's graph and that your daughter's temps fluctuate a lot... when you say `as low as' 36.3C, do you mean that her temp is usually higher than this during the day? - It would be good to also check her basal temperatures in addition to the fluctuations during the day - very first thing in the morning when she opens her eyes, and very last thing at night before she falls asleep.....

The headaches are still a huge issue as is the intolerance to exercise and thetiredness. I have been desperate dealing with her behaviour and so I havestarted her on the iodine protocol as per the iodine group, 2 caps of adrenalnatural glandular, 1 grain of Naturethoid, and progesterone cream. She says thatshe feels much better, though far from well. Generally the screaming has stoppedand her coming up to me with her teeth barred and growling has also virtuallystopped. The hitting is much better. Much of the light sensitivity has gone aswell.

The symptoms you describe above point again towards low thyroid. It is well documented that manic or depressive behaviour – with outbreaks of rage or fury – has been observed in Hypothyroidism. I am pleased that you have now taken action and decided to self medicate J . ly, if she were my daughter, I would have done the same, just to see if iodine, progesterone and NDT make a difference and it seems that it does.... which sort of proves a point! You obviously are familiar with Dr. Brownstein's theory – it does make a lot of sense. I too believe that the proof is in the pudding, and if it helps her, then you can't go far wrong with what you are doing. However, I believe the adrenal glandular extract will have an influence on the Synacthen test and might invalidate it – so you might need to stop the treatment 2 weeks before the test or at least get some professional advice on the extend to which the glandulars might interfere.

There are hormone tests still outstanding, I understand that these will not beback until the end of March. I am wondering if I need to try & hold on untilthese tests are back or whether I should try for a or a second opinion.Whatever it is your daughter is suffering from, it is clearly some endocrine problem, and I would not mind betting that it is also linked to the meningitis she suffered from as a baby. For a second opinion you might as well wait until you have all the results together – synacthen test and hormone tests as well. ... won't be long now.

She has been gluten free since Christmas, but, I am really not sure if this islikely to have made any difference. Her IgA and IgG Gliadin antibodies arenegative. The only thing that was elevated was the IgE this was 552 when itshould be <200. This is not a surprise though as we know that she has allergies.

That's good news about her coeliac antibodies being negative, but it does not necessarily mean that a gluten free diet makes no difference - the avoidance of gluten might help to keep her condition in remission. The point Datis Kharrazian is making is that gluten, when a patient is intolerant to gluten - yet does not have coeliac disease (and therefore negative antibodies) – can entice the immune system into action and in turn raise thyroid antibodies like TPO and TgAB if proof were needed that they are basically there and in positive number, only they had gone into remission. This is the first I have read that about gluten, but I know from personal experience that if a person is suffering from an autoimmune disease which is in remission, it is quite easy to provoke the auto-antibodies to `come out of hiding' and attack by challenging the immune system to react. This is how I eventually got diagnosed myself when previous lab results always came back `negative'. I used to have a mouthful of amalgam fillings and had them taken out after Dr. Peatfield told me that my thyroid is low and I should have those fillings removed – it was a lengthy process which took a few months to complete because one thing led to another and I needed major work done, involving re-root canal fillings where the cavaties had been filled to the brim with amalgam under the caps and it all needed to come out – consequently I must have breathed in my fair share of mercury despite all the precautions..... - and Bingo! – suddenly my TPO's shot up in their hundreds and my TSH shot up too and I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's at the 11th hour before the men in their white coats could cart me off to the loony bin for being "clinically depressed" J I was admittedly counting on the TSH to rise as a result of all the trauma, but was still surprised when the blood test came back and it had worked <g>

Please keep the updates coming, .

Love,

[Guest guest]

Thank you .

>

>

> Hi,

> I would be concerned that her TSH is rather high in the range- though

FT4 and FT3 look fine this may indicate that her thyroid is being pushed hard to

give the proper output. Antibodies are present, though low, so need watching

too.

>

>

> > thyroid treatment

> > From: m.kidson60@...

> > Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2011 21:00:57 +0000

> > Subject: Some Tests Results in at Last!

> >

> > Hi All,

> >

> > At last, I have some test results for my daughter(12.5yrs) - I am not sure

if these indicate anything, so I would be very grateful for your advice.

> >

> > THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 2.28 mIU/L (0.27 -4.2)

> >

> > FREE THYROXINE 17.7 pmol/l (12.0 - 22.0)

> >

> > FREE T3 6.7 pmol/L (3.5 - 7.7)

> >

> > Thyroglobulin Antibody 18.8 IU/mL 0-115(Negative)

> > Modular

> > Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 21.7 IU/mL <34 (Negative)

> >

> > Best wishes,

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

> > TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical

practitioner before changing medication.

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

Thank you very much for this. I note what you say about the adrenal support. I

had added this as I was unsure if I gave my daughter thyroid hormome, whether

she would have enough reserves to metabolise it - I will stop this tomorrow and

see how she is without it. I am glad that you agree that you would have started

to self medicate if you were in my position.

Thank you for the information about the test, I need to ring the hospital to

confirm - they do not mention the fasting in the letter. the appointment is for

8.30am. My daughter is not looking forward to the test as it means getting up

very early which she finds very hard! I will definitely be staying with her so I

can make sure that she stays lying down.

> doubt if she has ever seen a cushingoid child, so what does she know !

Well today, I decided to ring St Bart's to see what they had to say - the

secretary said that if it was Cushing's that she needs to be referred straight

away - I was told to go to my GP straight away and to get the referral faxed

through!! if I had any trouble I was to ring her back.I explained the situation

with the NHS dr and the private Dr. Well, I went to see a GP, unfortunately

there were only locum GP's there today. After some discussions in which he was

saying that it would be a good idea to work with the local team as my daughter

would be treated by them anyway, I could tell that he couldn't understand what I

was saying. Eventually he looked at my daughter's buffalo hump - he is the first

person in the NHS to do this. I could tell that he was shocked - the endoprat

had clearly written in her letter that physical examination was normal - yet

here was an abnormality. He did change after this and he agreed that my daughter

should be referred to St Bart's, however, he felt that it should be done after

the synacthen test. I couldn't get this changed - he said that he couldn't do

the referral - it had to be done by a partner - so I have to go back! I pleaded

with him for help for my daughter's headaches and he said that she may be

getting migraines due to the Cushing's! I couldn't quite believe what he said!

The letter from the endoprat says 'she does not look Cushingoid' I will be

ringing St Bart's back in the morning to see what they say.

> Cholesterol is usually part and parcel of a normal Biochemistry when

> they check all the usual functions - liver & kidney function and a

> haematology to check the red and white blood cells.... - has this never

> been done?

Lots of tests have been done including liver & kidney tests, but, I can't see

cholesterol anywhere.

> It is interesting that you have done the Dr. Rind's graph and that

> your daughter's temps fluctuate a lot... when you say `as low

> as' 36.3C, do you mean that her temp is usually higher than this

> during the day?

the 36.3c was the average for the day. Over the period of 3 weeks that I did

this, once a week the temperatures rose to around about 36.9c for a day then it

would take a sharp drop back.

- It would be good to also check her basal temperatures

> in addition to the fluctuations during the day - very first thing in the

> morning when she opens her eyes, and very last thing at night before she

> falls asleep.....

>

I will try to do this - it is difficult at times.

> The symptoms you describe above point again towards low thyroid. It is

> well documented that manic or depressive behaviour – with outbreaks

> of rage or fury – has been observed in Hypothyroidism.

I didn't know this - thanks.

You obviously are familiar with Dr. Brownstein's theory – it does make a lot of

sense.

I have been reading about this for a while now - I have put myself and my son on

the iodine as well. I am also on the NDT - it has made a huge difference. I am

still working on my son to get some tests done! He has asked for the thyroid

hormone though!

> Whatever it is your daughter is suffering from, it is clearly some

> endocrine problem, and I would not mind betting that it is also linked

> to the meningitis she suffered from as a baby.

I am glad that you agree here, I think that slowly we are getting somewhere. I

also agree that it probably all stems from the meningitis.

For a second opinion you might as well wait until you have all the results

together – synacthen test and hormone tests as well. ... won't be long now.

> The point Datis Kharrazian is making is that gluten, when a patient is

> intolerant to gluten - yet does not have coeliac disease (and therefore

> negative antibodies) – can entice the immune system into action and

> in turn raise thyroid antibodies like TPO and TgAB if proof were needed

> that they are basically there and in positive number, only they had gone

> into remission. This is the first I have read that about gluten,

I didn't know this either, I think that I need to get this book.

but I

> know from personal experience that if a person is suffering from an

> autoimmune disease which is in remission, it is quite easy to provoke

> the auto-antibodies to `come out of hiding' and attack by

> challenging the immune system to react. This is how I eventually got

> diagnosed myself when previous lab results always came back

> `negative'. I used to have a mouthful of amalgam fillings and

> had them taken out after Dr. Peatfield told me that my thyroid is low

> and I should have those fillings removed – it was a lengthy process

> which took a few months to complete because one thing led to another and

> I needed major work done, involving re-root canal fillings where the

> cavaties had been filled to the brim with amalgam under the caps and it

> all needed to come out – consequently I must have breathed in my

> fair share of mercury despite all the precautions..... - and Bingo!

> – suddenly my TPO's shot up in their hundreds and my TSH shot up

> too and I was diagnosed with Hashimoto's at the 11th hour before the

> men in their white coats could cart me off to the loony bin for being

> " clinically depressed " J I was admittedly counting on the TSH

> to rise as a result of all the trauma, but was still surprised when the

> blood test came back and it had worked <g>

Goodness, you have been through alot - I had all my amalgams out last year - it

has been one of the best things I have done, I feel so much better.

I will let you know what happens!

With very best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hello again, ,

Just another couple of things ....

.... I note what you say about the adrenal support. Ihad added this as I was unsure if I gave my daughter thyroid hormome, whethershe would have enough reserves to metabolise it - I will stop this tomorrow andsee how she is without it. I am glad that you agree that you would have startedto self medicate if you were in my position.On thinking about it, it's not just the adrenal glandular but any adrenal hormones that would influence the outcome of the SST ... and unfortunately that includes the Progesterone cream too L I am sorry about this, as the cream seems to help your daughter so much. I am not overly concerned about stopping the glandulars, because if she had Cushing's, then she would have an excess of cortisol anyway to utilize thyroid hormone, although there is always the off-chance that the salivary profile was correct and she has too little cortisol... but from what you are saying it's more likely that she has too much rather than too little. It seems a shame having to stop the cream though.... Could you perhaps phone St. Barts again and ask if it would make a big (or any?) difference if you carried on? I know the test will not be done there, but I just think that they would be more clued up about the requirements....the following is what it says in the endocrine handbook guidelines about preparations for a synacthen test:If on steroids ensure that none is taken the night prior to the test or on the morning of the test. The

final dose of hydrocortisone should be at midday, on the day prior to the test.

HRT or any oestrogen should be discontinued for 6 weeks before the test.

In patients in whom the test is being used to screen for 21 hydroxylase deficiency, the test should be

done in the follicular phase because progesterone levels rise substantially in the luteal phase, and

there is some cross reaction between the 17 OHP assay and the Progesterone assay.

...... but she is a child and presumably has not yet reached puberty (?) – and I have no idea if/how that might influence the test if you just carried on with the progesterone cream. Prog might be converted into oestrogen amongst other things .... I don't think it matters about the 6 week reference above, since you have just started the treatment and her system would not yet have been saturated with the hormone. But one way or another it needs clarifying; you do not want to risk the SST to be inaccurate.

I can't find a reference to fasting at the moment, but I am pretty sure it's required. – please ask though, just to make sure.

He did change after this and he agreed that my daughtershould be referred to St Bart's, however, he felt that it should be done afterthe synacthen test. I couldn't get this changed - he said that he couldn't dothe referral - it had to be done by a partner - so I have to go back! I pleadedwith him for help for my daughter's headaches and he said that she may begetting migraines due to the Cushing's! I couldn't quite believe what he said!I couldn't believe my eyes reading this..... what a prat the endoprat women is – how could she have been put up as head of a department ?!

> The symptoms you describe above point again towards low thyroid. It is> well documented that manic or depressive behaviour – with outbreaks> of rage or fury – has been observed in Hypothyroidism.I didn't know this - thanks.The mechanism whereby diminished thyroid function affects behaviour is unclear. But it is believed that hypothyroid patients have reduced cortisol clearance, and the constantly elevated levels of circulating cortisol mimic the condition of a constant state of stress. Mental function is impaired and the patient is likely to respond to stress in a stereotypical rather than a reasoned fashion. Chronic stress has been implicated in the pathogenesis of depression and studies have shown that major depression can produce changes in neural activity in areas of the brain which regulate aggressive and other behaviours. The good news is that thyroid hormone can achieve a dramatic reversal of such behaviour patterns.

the 36.3c was the average for the day. Over the period of 3 weeks that I didthis, once a week the temperatures rose to around about 36.9c for a day then itwould take a sharp drop back.Hmmm, interesting... particularly the occasional sharp fluctuation – I wonder what this is about. However, if 36.3C was the average during the day, chances are that her basal am and evening temps are even lower than that.... and this is yet another sign for low thyroid. According to Dr. Peatfield (book) there are only 4 conditions other than hypothyroidism that will cause subnormal temperatures – malnutrition, alcoholism, liver disease and hypothermia.

>>>You obviously are familiar with Dr. Brownstein's theory – it does make a lot ofsense.I have been reading about this for a while now - I have put myself and my son onthe iodine as well. I am also on the NDT - it has made a huge difference. I amstill working on my son to get some tests done! He has asked for the thyroidhormone though!Aaaah – I guessed that much when you said you gave it to your daughter J and again, the proof is in the pudding.... you obviously feel better. Alas.... since you have now put your son on NDT and iodine too, there is not much point in doing the blood test at the moment – once you are on thyroid medication, you can't diagnose hypothyroidism anymore, because the thyroid hormones will alter the outcome. However.... the acid test is this – if you and your son (and your daughter) were not hypothyroid, either one of you who is not hypothyroid would become hyperthyroid in due course because of the build-up of thyroid hormones.... it would take a few weeks though, because a healthy system would first speed up the metabolism in an attempt to excrete the excess hormones as fast as possible, but it won't be able to keep that up in the long run – the thyroid hormones would soon build up and you would get symptoms of hyperthyroidism (palps, jittery, breathing problems etc). If this happens, stop the NDT and within a day or two you should be back to normal. I assume you are all taking 1 grain ? I would stay on that for at least 4-5 weeks, and by then you should know one way or another. If, however (as I assume) you are all in need of NDT, you will just get on improving. If you and your son did improve, I would forget about any blood test for the moment and in about 8 weeks or so would do a 24 hour urinary thyroid test with Genova. This is more accurate than any blood test and it will demonstrate just how much T4 and T3 your body has been using over the period of 24 hours and will give you the proof that you are doing the right thing. This might also be more agreeable for your son, as all that is required is to collect urine for 24 hours J - the only downside (as always) is it costs money .....

Jeez, just noticed the time – better put my own adrenals to sleep now....<g>

Love,

[Guest guest]

hi mary

it beggar's belief that the endo you saw said your daughter's physical exam was

normal ....she has no right to be in the job if she is so incompetent, clealry

she is life-threatening ...what an appalling situation and i too feel for you

and your family.

you probably already know, but i thought it worth mentioning that apparently the

tsh can rise for up to six months when starting with iodine supplementation.

keep up your good work and very best wishes to you.

trish

>

Eventually he looked at my daughter's buffalo hump - he is the first person in

the NHS to do this. I could tell that he was shocked - the endoprat had clearly

written in her letter that physical examination was normal - yet here was an

abnormality. He did change after this and he agreed that my daughter should be

referred to St Bart's, however, he felt that it should be done after the

synacthen test. en a patient is

[Guest guest]

Good morning ,

I just re-read the mail I send last night and noticed that I misread what you'd said – I realize now that your son is not yet on NDT, just on Iodine. – sorry, it was very late and I was clearly lacking T3 <g>

However, since your son is already half-way to coming round to the idea of thyroid hormone, why not do a 24 hour urinary TFT for him straight away? The disadvantages are that it's the most expensive test (~£85, I think, plus a tenner for courier service) it does not include the antibody test and that no NHS doctor will recognize its validity. The advantages, however, are that he can do it at home, no needles or doctors required, and it will actually tell him more than a blood test might ...namely how much T3 and T4 his body has utilized over a 24 hour period.... not (like a blood test) how much thyroid hormone is circulating in his veins. To my mind this is the ultimate test – only the NHS does not agree. It would certainly take the question mark over whether he needs thyroid hormones or not. If you wanted to do that -

All orders should be directed to kitorders@...

or phone 020 8336 7754 , which is a dedicated test order line.

and this is what a urinary test result would look like

http://www.iwdl.net/files/profile_assets/sample_report/HOR06%20Thyroid%20Urine%20T3T4%20Sample.pdf

Love,

[Guest guest]

Just a reminder to all our members that any testing done through

Genova Diagnostics attracts a discount for all members of TPA. Go to our FILES

section which is a\accessible from the Home Page of this forum web site and

scroll through the alphabetical list there until you see 'Discounts on Tests

and Supplements'. In the list that opens, click on Genova Diagnostics and

follow the instructions there, remembering when you place your order to quote

'Thyroid Patient Advocacy' as your Practitioner. Without doing this, you will

not get any discount. The results will be sent to you direct and they are not

sent to me whatever anybody might tell you who works at Genova. This is a

special arrangement between Genova and myself as owner of TPA.

You can also get 33% discount from Nutri Ltd - but you need to

quote the TPA reference number to claim that.

Luv - Sheila

Good morning ,

All orders should be directed to kitorders@...

or phone 020 8336 7754 , which is a dedicated test order line.

and this is what a urinary test result would look like

http://www.iwdl.net/files/profile_assets/sample_report/HOR06%20Thyroid%20Urine%20T3T4%20Sample.pdf

Love,

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

> On thinking about it, it's not just the adrenal glandular but any

> adrenal hormones that would influence the outcome of the SST ... and

> unfortunately that includes the Progesterone cream too L

oh no! Not sure I can cope with that! Anyway, we have stopped. I do feel a bit

better as I think that we are getting somewhere now, so perhaps I will be able

to cope a bit better with the outbursts. St Barts said to stop both the cream

and the glandulars.

although there is always the off-chance that the salivary profile was correct

and she has too little cortisol...

I've no idea why this result was as it was, I forgot to say that we have done a

24hr urinary cortisol test as well - this may give us more of an idea - the

results are not back yet.

..... but she is a child and presumably has not yet reached puberty (?)

This is a moot point at the moment - the GP was concerned that her periods had

not started and that there were almost no physical signs of bodily changes,

however, the endoprat found things that are not there and has made a statement

that all is OK in this dept!

> I can't find a reference to fasting at the moment, but I am pretty

> sure it's required. – please ask though, just to make sure.

I will - I need to check the timimg as the appointment is for 8.30am - if they

want to out anaesthetic cream on her before putting in any needles than this

takes an hour to work, so the test may not be started before 9.30-10.00am - this

isn't right is it?

I couldn't believe my eyes reading this..... what a prat the

> endoprat women is – how could she have been put up as head of a

> department ?!

I do not know - I don't know what her reation will be if the test shows

something.

> > The symptoms you describe above point again towards low thyroid. It is

> > well documented that manic or depressive behaviour – with

> outbreaks

> > of rage or fury – has been observed in Hypothyroidism.

> I didn't know this - thanks.

> The mechanism whereby diminished thyroid function affects behaviour is

> unclear. But it is believed that hypothyroid patients have reduced

> cortisol clearance, and the constantly elevated levels of circulating

> cortisol mimic the condition of a constant state of stress. Mental

> function is impaired and the patient is likely to respond to stress in a

> stereotypical rather than a reasoned fashion. Chronic stress has been

> implicated in the pathogenesis of depression and studies have shown that

> major depression can produce changes in neural activity in areas of the

> brain which regulate aggressive and other behaviours. The good news is

> that thyroid hormone can achieve a dramatic reversal of such behaviour

> patterns.

I can't wait for this to happen, I just have a feeling that things are more

complicated though.

Hmmm, interesting... particularly the occasional sharp fluctuation –

> I wonder what this is about. However, if 36.3C was the average during

> the day, chances are that her basal am and evening temps are even lower

> than that.... and this is yet another sign for low thyroid. According to

> Dr. Peatfield (book) there are only 4 conditions other than

> hypothyroidism that will cause subnormal temperatures –

> malnutrition, alcoholism, liver disease and hypothermia.

Presumably if she has Cushing's then this will affect all hormonal

run systems in the body - do you think?

Many thanks - I appreciate your reply so late in the day.

Love,

[Guest guest]

Hi Trish,

Thank you so much for your support - other people have said the same as you -

thst she is life-threatening. This woman is new to the PCT and claims to have

spent 2 years training at the nearest Children's Hospital - I think she has alot

to learn.

I actually think that I might have to be careful how I handle her so that she

does not get hugely defensive if the test shows up something. What I say will be

very different to what I feel and what I would like to do with her!

She will be running more blood tests on the 22nd - I am not sure what she will

think if the TSH has risen - one thing is certain, I will not be telling her how

much iodine I am giving my daughter, even though she feels so much better on it!

Best wishes,

> it beggar's belief that the endo you saw said your daughter's physical exam

was normal ....she has no right to be in the job if she is so incompetent,

clealry she is life-threatening ...what an appalling situation and i too feel

for you and your family.

>

> you probably already know, but i thought it worth mentioning that apparently

the tsh can rise for up to six months when starting with iodine supplementation.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

> However, since your son is already half-way to coming round to the idea

> of thyroid hormone, why not do a 24 hour urinary TFT for him straight away.

What a good idea, I am going to wait a little while, maybe until the Easter

holidays as he is really struggling at the moment coping with school and sport.

He loves his sport and is good at rugby, but, he gets so tired and stiff and his

face gets puffy. He has an appointment with the kidney specialist at the end of

March, so it will be interesting to see if the IgA Nepropathy is active again.

Love,

[Guest guest]

Hi Trish,

sounds like it would be helpful to telepphone the patients advisory liason service to discuss your serious concerns about your daughters care. swith board will put you through to them.

Regards , Bernie

From: "m.kidson60@..." <m.kidson60@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Sat, 5 March, 2011 12:34:11Subject: Re: Some Tests Results in at Last!

Hi Trish,Thank you so much for your support - other people have said the same as you - thst she is life-threatening. This woman is new to the PCT and claims to have spent 2 years training at the nearest Children's Hospital - I think she has alot to learn.I actually think that I might have to be careful how I handle her so that she does not get hugely defensive if the test shows up something. What I say will be very different to what I feel and what I would like to do with her!She will be running more blood tests on the 22nd - I am not sure what she will think if the TSH has risen - one thing is certain, I will not be telling her how much iodine I am giving my daughter, even though she feels so much better on it!Best wishes,> it beggar's belief that the endo you saw said your daughter's physical exam was normal ....she has no right to be in the job if she is so incompetent, clealry she is

life-threatening ...what an appalling situation and i too feel for you and your family.> > you probably already know, but i thought it worth mentioning that apparently the tsh can rise for up to six months when starting with iodine supplementation.

[Guest guest]

Hi Bernie,

I think that this was probably meant for me. Thank you, and yes, I think that

would be a very good idea.

Regards,