Re: Still getting pains in hip joints and knees - Blood Test Results.

[Guest guest]

Hello Ann - the difference in your thyroid function test results

between blood and urine is that the NHS only test the levels of TH in the blood

- before they have done the job they are supposed to do, and the 24 hour urine

test shows the level of thyroid hormone that is being used at the cellular

level. This is our one BIG argument with the NHS in that they have no test to

find out whether patients might be suffering with peripheral resistance to

thyroid hormone at the cellular level (that being secreted naturally by our

thyroid gland, or any thyroid hormone supplement). It appears that with you,

your cells are not getting sufficient of the ACTIVE thyroid hormone T3 and you

may be better by using T3 alone. Talk to Dr P about this, but I would certainly

think it worthy of a trial, at least.

BTW - how much natural thyroid extract are you taking?

Luv - Sheila

I don't understand why my blood test for T3 seems more 'normal' whereas the 24

hour urine test for T3 was in the lower end of the 'normal' scale. When I asked

someone about the urine test they said it was to see how the cells in the body

use T3/T4 so does this mean that my cells are not getting enough T3 and that is

why I still get joint pains?

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, thanks for your reply, I will talk with Dr. P about this next week

when I see him, about maybe just taking T3. To reply to your question, at the

time of the blood test (three weeks ago) I was taking 6 grains of Erfa, I have

since reduced this to 4, as I was not really benefiting from a higher dose, only

negatively in that I was feeling a bit shaky and unwell, other than that at the

moment I don't really feel much different on a lower dose, I do feel better

actually other than the hip pains. I did put the dose up to 6 grains to see if

it would cure the pains in my hip joints but it didn't, I was on 6 grains for

about three months. Maybe my body doesn't like T4 at all?

This is our one BIG argument with the NHS in that they have no test

> to find out whether patients might be suffering with peripheral resistance

> to thyroid hormone at the cellular level (that being secreted naturally by

> our thyroid gland, or any thyroid hormone supplement). It appears that with

> you, your cells are not getting sufficient of the ACTIVE thyroid hormone T3

> and you may be better by using T3 alone.

[Guest guest]

Ask your GP to check your levels of ferritin, B12, D3,

magnesium, folate, copper and zinc Ann. Check out the attached document which

you can print off to show your doctor if s/he doubts there is any association

with these low levels and thyroid hormone not reaching the cells. Pass the

results to us with the ref. range for each test done once you get them and we

will help with their interpretation.

Luv - Sheila

Hi Sheila, thanks for your reply, I will talk with Dr. P about this next

week when I see him, about maybe just taking T3. To reply to your question, at

the time of the blood test (three weeks ago) I was taking 6 grains of Erfa, I

have since reduced this to 4, as I was not really benefiting from a higher

dose, only negatively in that I was feeling a bit shaky and unwell, other than

that at the moment I don't really feel much different on a lower dose, I do

feel better actually other than the hip pains. I did put the dose up to 6

grains to see if it would cure the pains in my hip joints but it didn't, I was

on 6 grains for about three months. Maybe my body doesn't like T4 at all?

Recent

Activity:

·

New Members 22

·

New Files 5

Visit Your Group

TPA

is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner

before changing medication.

Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms

of Use

..

1 of 1 File(s)

LOW MINERALS AND VITAMINS AND THE THYROID CONNECTION.doc

[Guest guest]

Presumably this attachment, which I cannot see, is somewhere in the Files area?

Please would you post its address. I have looked in several folders and can't

seem to find it. Thanks.

Miriam

> Ask your GP to check your levels of ferritin, B12, D3, magnesium, folate,

copper and zinc Ann. Check out the attached document which you can print off to

show your doctor if s/he doubts there is any association with these low levels

and thyroid hormone not reaching the cells. Pass the results to us with the ref.

range for each test done once you get them and we will help with their

interpretation.

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam, if you opted to receive Individual Emails rather than

opting to receive the Daily Digest or you read direct from the forum web site,

you will receive any attachments, but with the latter, you won't. I have uploaded

this document to the FILE entitled All Mineral and Vitamins (or similar name)

and it is called 'Low Vitamins and Minerals and the Thyroid Connection'

Luv - Sheila

Presumably this attachment, which I cannot see,

is somewhere in the Files area? Please would you post its address. I have

looked in several folders and can't seem to find it. Thanks.

Miriam

[Guest guest]

Yes, I do only ever read messages directly from the forum. I am a member of

about 10 different and could not possibly have messages or even

digests, coming from all of them into my in-box.

Thanks, I have found the file now.

Miriam

> Hi Miriam, if you opted to receive Individual Emails rather than opting to

receive the Daily Digest or you read direct from the forum web site, you will

receive any attachments, but with the latter, you won't. I have uploaded this

document to the FILE entitled All Mineral and Vitamins (or similar name) and it

is called 'Low Vitamins and Minerals and the Thyroid Connection'

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, I was interested in what you said about peripheral resistance to

thyroid hormone, as this seems to be a reason why I am still having Hypothyroid

symptoms,but less so now I am on Erfa. I googled RTH - Resistance to Thyroid

Hormone, and I was surprised to find there was quite a lot of research done on

this by various people around the world. One site www.hotthyroidology.com

(which is a journal owned by the European Thyroid Association) had an article

titled 'Treatment of Thyroid Hormone Resistance Syndromes' by a Professor from

the Department of Medical Sciences, University of Milan in Italy, in this

article (which is quite medical and difficult to understand about genetic

mutations etc.,) they have put 'suggested therapeutic approaches for resistance

to thyroid hormone (RTH) patients, which is I quote: 'Drugs such as TRIAC is

effective in almost all patients: D-T4 Effective in almost all patients: T3

Production of daily peaks of very high T3 concentrations, which contribute to

maintain clinical hyperthyroidism' I looked up TRIAC which stands for

Triiodothyroacedtic Acid (TRIAC)and found that it was used at one time in the

United States as a health supplement for weight loss, and even body builders

have it on their site, but it is banned now in the States and Canada, don't know

why though. I was wondering if you have ever heard of TRIAC being used instead

of T3 for Resistance to Thyroid Hormone states or even of D-T4? This article

was written in 2002 and other articles I found have known about this TRIAC etc.,

since 1997, has anyone else heard of this? Also on the members of the European

Thyroid Association was a Professor Bloom from Imperial College London,

I looked on the British Thyroid Assoc. web site but he is not one of their

members, and he is a Professor of Endocrinology with his own web site, have you

heard of him or has anyone else heard of him, he seems quite impressive on his

web site and is interested in research into endocrine disorders? Thanks Ann

> Ask your GP to check your levels of ferritin, B12, D3, magnesium, folate,

copper and zinc Ann. Check out the attached document which you can print off to

show

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila and everyone, Please can you reply to this message, I have posted it

again as I have had no response from it. I was interested in what you said

about peripheral resistance to

thyroid hormone, as this seems to be a reason why I am still having Hypothyroid

symptoms,but less so now I am on Erfa. I googled RTH - Resistance to Thyroid

Hormone, and I was surprised to find there was quite a lot of research done on

this by various people around the world. One site www.hotthyroidology.com

(which is a journal owned by the European Thyroid Association) had an article

titled 'Treatment of Thyroid Hormone Resistance Syndromes' by a Professor from

the Department of Medical Sciences, University of Milan in Italy, in this

article (which is quite medical and difficult to understand about genetic

mutations etc.,) they have put 'suggested therapeutic approaches for resistance

to thyroid hormone (RTH) patients, which is I quote: 'Drugs such as TRIAC is

effective in almost all patients: D-T4 Effective in almost all patients: T3

Production of daily peaks of very high T3 concentrations, which contribute to

maintain clinical hyperthyroidism' I looked up TRIAC which stands for

Triiodothyroacedtic Acid (TRIAC)and found that it was used at one time in the

United States as a health supplement for weight loss, and even body builders

have it on their site, but it is banned now in the States and Canada, don't know

why though. I was wondering if you have ever heard of TRIAC being used instead

of T3 for Resistance to Thyroid Hormone states or even of D-T4? This article

was written in 2002 and other articles I found have known about this TRIAC etc.,

since 1997, has anyone else heard of this? Also on the members of the European

Thyroid Association was a Professor Bloom from Imperial College London,

I looked on the British Thyroid Assoc. web site but he is not one of their

members, and he is a Professor of Endocrinology with his own web site, have you

heard of him or has anyone else heard of him, he seems quite impressive on his

web site and is interested in research into endocrine disorders? Thanks Ann

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila and everyone, Please can you reply to this

message, I have posted it again as I have had no response from it. I was

interested in what you said about peripheral resistance to thyroid hormone, as this seems to be a reason why

I am still having Hypothyroid symptoms,but

less so now I am on Erfa.

We are talking

here about 'Type 2' hypothyroidism, or what should be more correctly called 'Euthyroid

Hypometabolism'.

'Type

1' hypothyroidism is associated with insufficient secretion by the thyroid, the

pituitary or the hypothalamus gland, thereby reducing the level of the mainly

inactive T4 hormone, available for conversion, to the active hormone T3.

Every cell in the body and brain needs T3 to make them function. Those whose

symptoms of hypothyroidism are being produced by having either primary,

secondary or tertiary hypothyroidism, can, in most cases, be treated quite

successfully with levothyroxine-only.

Primary

hypothyroidism, means the thyroid gland doesn't produce an adequate amount of

thyroxine (T4). Secondary hypothyroidism develops when the pituitary gland does

not release enough of the thyroid-stimulating hormone (TSH) that prompts the

thyroid to manufacture more thyroid hormone T3 and T3. Tertiary hypothyroidism

results from a malfunction of the hypothalamus, the part of the brain that

controls the endocrine system.

Type

2 hypothyroidism is defined as peripheral resistance to thyroid hormone at the

cellular level. Type 2 hypothyroidism reduces the amount of the active thyroid

hormone T3 in the body, producing the same sort of symptoms that Type 1

hypothyroidism produces. Environmental toxins may also cause or

exacerbate the problem. The pervasiveness of Type 2 hypothyroidism has yet to

be recognised by mainstream medicine, but already is in epidemic proportions.

Type 2 hypothyroidism needs to be treated with T3 hormone replacement therapy

(synthetic or natural thyroid extract) - and not by T4-only therapy. The BTA

and RCP appear to fail to even recognise Type 2 hypothyroidism (or more

correctly called Euthyroid Hypometabolism).

The

other 'Thyroid Hormone Resistance Syndrome is rare, incidence is

variously quoted as 1 in 50,000 or 1 in 40,000 live births. THR is noted when thyroid

hormone levels are high but the TSH level is not suppressed, or not completely

suppressed as would be expected with such high Thyroid levels. The most common

cause of this syndrome are mutations of the â (beta) form (THRB) gene of the

thyroid hormone receptor, , of which over 100 different mutations have been

documented. Mutations in MCT8 and SECISBP2 have also been associated with this

condition.

This syndrome can present with variable symptoms, even between

members of the same family who have the same mutation. Typically most or all

tissues are resistant to thyroid hormone, so despite raised levels of thyroid

hormone in the blood, the individual may appear euthyroid (have no symptoms of

over or underactivity of the thyroid gland). The most common symptoms are

goitre  and

tachycardia. See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9350446

Coming back to 'peripheral resistance to thyroid hormone at the

cellular level' (Type 2 hypothyroidism), there can be  many causes that may reduce the

conversion of T4 to T3, e.g. aging, obesity, disease, stress, exercise,

malnutrition, etc., potentially reducing the efficacy of a T4 alone treatment,

and in which a natural or synthetic T4/T3 treatment may be more effective. There

are also toxic substances such as phenols, cadmium, and mercury and medications

such as propranolol, amiodarone and several others that may interfere by

inhibiting the T4 to T3 conversion.

Deficiencies

in hormones, such asT3 itself, TSH, growth hormone, insulin, cortisone and

certain trace elements such as selenium, iron, zinc, copper, iodine partially

block this essential conversion step for thyroid function. On the other hand,

excess hormones such as glucocorticoids, ACTH, oestrogens and some trace

elements may also slow down the conversion of T4 to T3.

Problem

is telling your GP or endocrinologist about all of these, because those

genuinely interested or wanting to learn more about thyroid hormone metabolism

are rare birds indeed.

Luv

- Sheila

I googled RTH - Resistance to Thyroid

Hormone, and I was surprised to find there was quite a lot of research done on

this by various people around the world. One site www.hotthyroidology.com

(which is a journal owned by the European Thyroid Association) had an article

titled 'Treatment of Thyroid Hormone Resistance Syndromes' by a Professor from

the Department of Medical Sciences, University of Milan in Italy, in this

article (which is quite medical and difficult to understand about genetic

mutations etc.,) they have put 'suggested therapeutic approaches for resistance

to thyroid hormone (RTH) patients, which is I quote