Guest guest Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi again, I'd be grateful for some feedback as I wonder if I am going off at a tangent here. I have had trouble with my right knee for years now, having stiffness sometimes and trouble going up and down stairs. There have been a couple of occasions when I have fallen unexpectedly, not having tripped over anything and did not really put it down to the knee having collapsed under me. Last week we went to our daughter for the weekend and she has very steep stairs. By tne end of the weekend I was hobbling and then had an appointment in London which meant that I had a lot of walking to do. By the next day - last Tuesday, I could not walk at all and so I have been resting the knee, iceing it and taking Ibuprofen and it has improved slightly. I have been to the GP today and have asking him to refer me to a specialist. Am I being premature and is this, perhaps, to do with my hypothyroidism (26 years of having been diagnosed with ME, but with normal thyroid results and I have been with Dr. P since April). I am now taking NAX and 2 gm Armour a day. Is there a possibility that this knee condition might improve as I raise the Armour? Might I give myself extra grief if I go to a specialist and have treatment? Help, please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi, I certainly found my knee problem was worse when I wasnt treated for hypothyroidism and now I am it is certainly improving.....so my opinion is yes it could be thyroid.....however, if you have the appointment perhaps you should take it. slly xx Hi again, I'd be grateful for some feedback as I wonder if I am going off at a tangent here. I have had trouble with my right knee for years now, having stiffness sometimes and trouble going up and down stairs. There have been a couple of occasions when I have fallen unexpectedly, not having tripped over anything and did not really put it down to the knee having collapsed under me. Last week we went to our daughter for the weekend and she has very steep stairs. By tne end of the weekend I was hobbling and then had an appointment in London which meant that I had a lot of walking to do. By the next day - last Tuesday, I could not walk at all and so I have been resting the knee, iceing it and taking Ibuprofen and it has improved slightly. I have been to the GP today and have asking him to refer me to a specialist. Am I being premature and is this, perhaps, to do with my hypothyroidism (26 years of having been diagnosed with ME, but with normal thyroid results and I have been with Dr. P since April). I am now taking NAX and 2 gm Armour a day. Is there a possibility that this knee condition might improve as I raise the Armour? Might I give myself extra grief if I go to a specialist and have treatment? Help, please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi, Thanks for that. I think that I will go ahead as I am afraid that my knee might give way again and cause another fall. When I fell two years ago I broke my shoulder in 4 places and that wasn't very nice! Regards, Vicki From: Sally Jarvis <wollertonbank@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Tue, June 28, 2011 6:29:32 PMSubject: Re: sore knee joint Hi, I certainly found my knee problem was worse when I wasnt treated for hypothyroidism and now I am it is certainly improving.....so my opinion is yes it could be thyroid.....however, if you have the appointment perhaps you should take it. slly xx Hi again, I'd be grateful for some feedback as I wonder if I am going off at a tangent here. I have had trouble with my right knee for years now, having stiffness sometimes and , I Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Hi vicky, Wow that is dramatic, how awful for you. Yes my knee used to give way...I am whispering this now....it hasnt done it now for a long time. When I walked or run suddenly it was as though I only had one leg and I might also get a sharp pain. Walking up but particularly down stairs was awful and more so if I manged to wear heels ARGHH. Certainly if I was you I would see the specialist...but also get your thyroid dose correct...it helps with so many things. The thyroid and its function/effect is so complicated I dont think anyone absolutely undertands it. Sally xx I think that I will go ahead as I am afraid that my knee might give way again and cause another fall. When I fell two years ago I broke my shoulder in 4 places and that wasn't very nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 28, 2011 Report Share Posted June 28, 2011 Vicki,I had an issue with my right knee as well - it started about the time my thyroid shut down (around 10 months ago) and stopped a couple of weeks ago when I finally switch to Armour from Synthroid. I believe it definitely could be related. Sorry for your troubles. Be positive!RondaOn Tue, Jun 28, 2011 at 11:30 AM, vickiandrews6150 <vickiandrews6150@...> wrote: Hi again, I'd be grateful for some feedback as I wonder if I am going off at a tangent here. I have had trouble with my right knee for years now, having stiffness sometimes and trouble going up and down stairs. There have been a couple of occasions when I have fallen unexpectedly, not having tripped over anything and did not really put it down to the knee having collapsed under me. Last week we went to our daughter for the weekend and she has very steep stairs. By tne end of the weekend I was hobbling and then had an appointment in London which meant that I had a lot of walking to do. By the next day - last Tuesday, I could not walk at all and so I have been resting the knee, iceing it and taking Ibuprofen and it has improved slightly. I have been to the GP today and have asking him to refer me to a specialist. Am I being premature and is this, perhaps, to do with my hypothyroidism (26 years of having been diagnosed with ME, but with normal thyroid results and I have been with Dr. P since April). I am now taking NAX and 2 gm Armour a day. Is there a possibility that this knee condition might improve as I raise the Armour? Might I give myself extra grief if I go to a specialist and have treatment? Help, please! -- 2011 “It is an ironic juxtaposition of events: one involves a meaningless ritual in which we look to a pathetic creature lacking wisdom for prognostication while the other involves a groundhog.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 If this was me, I would try to increase in the natural desiccated porcine thyroid extract Vicki. We recommend that NDT should be increased by half a grain (30mgs) every 4 weeks until you find the dose that removes all of your symptoms. The way you find the dose your body needs is to increase as above, and when you start to suffer from any symptoms of hyPERthyroidism, i.e. palpitations, feeling dizzy, sweaty, feeling 'spaced out' agitated and generally yuk, then you don't take any more NDT that day, and the following day you go back on to the dose of NDT you were on before the latest increase. This is about the ONLY way to find the amount of thyroid hormone your body requires. It is likely that an increase will show a great improvement in your pain, but you should first rule out other possibilities with your GP and check that you don't have some inflammation there. Please read our 'How to Use natural Thyroid Extract' document in our FILES section under the folder entitled 'All Natural Thyroid Extract'. Luv - Sheila I have been to the GP today and have asking him to refer me to a specialist. Am I being premature and is this, perhaps, to do with my hypothyroidism (26 years of having been diagnosed with ME, but with normal thyroid results and I have been with Dr. P since April). I am now taking NAX and 2 gm Armour a day. Is there a possibility that this knee condition might improve as I raise the Armour? Might I give myself extra grief if I go to a specialist and have treatment? Help, please! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Hi Vicki, Not an over-pronator are you? It means that when you put your foot down it rolls in very slightly, not enough to make any difference to your shoes, but enough to mess up your knee. I wear an arch support in my shoes and the difference is huge if I leave the supports out, or wear different shooes. Supports from Boots, about £13.... The problem is very very common but often missed..... Have a google and you'll find it easy... amanda x > > Hi again, I'd be grateful for some feedback as I wonder if I am going off at a tangent here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Interesting. Thanks. Funnily enough, the walking when your foot rolls in slightly is, I believe, yet another adrenal symptom, although I can't now find which web-site I found that on. Will look into getting arch supports. thanks. Vicki From: Galathea <galathea@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 3:25:10 PMSubject: Re: sore knee joint Hi Vicki,Not an over-pronator are you? It means that when you put your foot down it rolls in very slightly, not enough to make any difference to your shoes, but enough to mess up your knee. I wear an arch support in my shoes and the difference is huge if I leave the supports out, or wear different shooes. Supports from Boots, about £13.... The problem is very very common but often missed.....Have a google and you'll find it easy...amanda x>> Hi again, I'd be grateful for some feedback as I wonder if I am going off at a tangent here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 From: Vicki s <vickiandrews6150@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 6:10:35 PMSubject: Re: Re: sore knee joint Interesting. Thanks. Funnily enough, the walking when your foot rolls in slightly is, I believe, yet another adrenal symptom, although I can't now find which web-site I found that on. Will look into getting arch supports. thanks. Vicki From: Galathea <galathea@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Wed, June 29, 2011 3:25:10 PMSubject: Re: sore knee joint Hi Vicki,Not an over-pronator are you? It means that when you put your foot down it rolls in Supports from Boots, about £13.... The problem is very very common but often missed..... Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post | Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (9) Recent Activity: New Members 20 New Files 3 Visit Your Group TPA is not medically qualified. Consult with a qualified medical practitioner before changing medication. Switch to: Text-Only, Daily Digest • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 29, 2011 Report Share Posted June 29, 2011 Hi Mandy, do you have references to this please so we can read about this ourselves. This is something I have not heard about before but if this is true, this would answer a lot of questions for those people who suffer with unexplained leg problems. Luv - Sheila There are muscles that are related to the adrenal glands - one of them being near the hip joints - when these weaken then the leg / foot will start to roll. It is important a) you get your adrenals sorted buy the supports to stop damaging your knee permanently. Best wishes Mandy _,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I found this very interesting too and I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. Found this info. Jaki http://tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html Adrenal Gland–Related Muscles Dr. Goodheart identified five specific skeletal muscles which are related to adrenal gland function. These are 1) sartorius, 2) gracilis, 3) posterior tibialis, 4) gastrocnemius, and 5) soleus. There will be weakness in one or more of these muscles when the adrenal glands are malfunctioning. Because of the attachments of the sartorius and gracilis on the pelvis, (sartorius—anterior superior iliac spine; gracilis—pubic ramus), their weakness in persons with adrenal stress problems may allow the sacroiliac joint to subluxate posteriorly. The sartorius and gracilis stabilize the innominate (one side of the pelvis), holding it in an anterior direction. Many persons with hypoadrenia seek chiropractic help for the care of sacroiliac pain and/or low back pain which is due to the lack of pelvic stabilization normally provided by these muscles. The sartorius and gracilis have a common insertion (along with the semitendinosis) on the medial side of the knee and rotate the tibia medially on the femur. When weakness of these muscles occurs, there is a loss of stability on the medial side of the knee. The sartorius and gracilis (along with the semitendinosis) act as dynamic ligaments, protecting and supporting the medial knee joint during various ranges of motion. Their function is particularly important in situations where the knee ligaments alone offer inadequate support. It is very important to check for hypoadrenia in any person with knee problems. One can see how one hypoadrenic person will present with knee problems and another with back problems, and some persons will have both. Due to the relationship of the posterior tibialis, gastrocnemius, and soleus to the stability of the foot and ankle, many hypoadrenic persons will complain of symptoms of tired feet, weak ankles, or aching calves. The posterior tibialis holds up the medial longitudinal arch of the foot, especially during gait. In some persons exhibiting hypoadrenia-related weakness of the posterior tibialis, the medial arch will drop, causing a pronation problem and strain to the foot and ankle. The one common factor in persons with the above-mentioned musculoskeletal complaints will be the weakness of one or more of the five adrenal gland related muscles accompanied by improvement of their symptoms following treatment of the adrenal glands. Hi Mandy, do you have references to this please so we can read about this ourselves. This is something I have not heard about before but if this is true, this would answer a lot of questions for those people who suffer with unexplained leg problems. Luv - Sheila There are muscles that are related to the adrenal glands - one of them being near the hip joints - when these weaken then the leg / foot will start to roll. It is important a) you get your adrenals sorted buy the supports to stop damaging your knee permanently. Best wishes Mandy _,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 I've been watching this thread with interest as for months and months despite seeing a really good osteopath who didn't fix it, I've had sudden weakness in my right knee which caused my knee to give way especially walking up stairs and also a problem with left back pelvic area stiffening up causing me to hobble about and at its worst causing sciatica (ouch!) These all went away almost as soon as I started Armour in May but have come back these last two days together with swollen puffy feet, legs and hands later in the day, which I think was triggered by the excessive heat and humidity last weekend. I'm sure I read a post from JOT to the effect of us being under more strain in the heat and needing to adjust our meds. Jackie x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 This is brilliant, thanks so much Jaki. I will place this information into the ADRENAL FOLDER in our FILES section of this forum, so those complaining of low back pain, weakened knee and leg pain, tired feel, weak ankles, aching calves, and foot pain so any member complaining of such symptoms can be referred to this document and they can take details of this to their TP/Endocrinologist. Luv - Sheila I found this very interesting too and I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. Found this info. Jaki http://tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html Adrenal Gland–Related Muscles Dr. Goodheart identified five specific skeletal muscles which are related to adrenal gland function. These are 1) sartorius, 2) gracilis, 3) posterior tibialis, 4) gastrocnemius, and 5) soleus. There will be weakness in one or more of these muscles when the adrenal glands are malfunctioning. Because of the attachments of the sartorius and gracilis on the pelvis, (sartorius—anterior superior iliac spine; gracilis—pubic ramus), their weakness in persons with adrenal stress problems may allow the sacroiliac joint to subluxate posteriorly. The sartorius and gracilis stabilize the innominate (one side of the pelvis), holding it in an anterior direction. Many persons with hypoadrenia seek chiropractic help for the care of sacroiliac pain and/or low back pain which is due to the lack of pelvic stabilization normally provided by these muscles. The sartorius and gracilis have a common insertion (along with the semitendinosis) on the medial side of the knee and rotate the tibia medially on the femur. When weakness of these muscles occurs, there is a loss of stability on the medial side of the knee. The sartorius and gracilis (along with the semitendinosis) act as dynamic ligaments, protecting and supporting the medial knee joint during various ranges of motion. Their function is particularly important in situations where the knee ligaments alone offer inadequate support. It is very important to check for hypoadrenia in any person with knee problems. One can see how one hypoadrenic person will present with knee problems and another with back problems, and some persons will have both. Due to the relationship of the posterior tibialis, gastrocnemius, and soleus to the stability of the foot and ankle, many hypoadrenic persons will complain of symptoms of tired feet, weak ankles, or aching calves. The posterior tibialis holds up the medial longitudinal arch of the foot, especially during gait. In some persons exhibiting hypoadrenia-related weakness of the posterior tibialis, the medial arch will drop, causing a pronation problem and strain to the foot and ankle. The one common factor in persons with the above-mentioned musculoskeletal complaints will be the weakness of one or more of the five adrenal gland related muscles accompanied by improvement of their symptoms following treatment of the adrenal glands. Hi Mandy, do you have references to this please so we can read about this ourselves. This is something I have not heard about before but if this is true, this would answer a lot of questions for those people who suffer with unexplained leg problems. Luv - Sheila There are muscles that are related to the adrenal glands - one of them being near the hip joints - when these weaken then the leg / foot will start to roll. It is important a) you get your adrenals sorted buy the supports to stop damaging your knee permanently. Best wishes Mandy _,___ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 When did you last have an increase of your Armour Jackie. You need to keep increasing your dose every 3 to 4 weeks by half a grain until you reach the level where all of your symptoms have disappeared. If you have been had your ferritin, B12, D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc levels checked and all are satisfactory - if you have done the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile, if you are not suffering with systemic candidiasis or mercury poisoning caused through amalgam fillings - any of which can stop the thyroid hormone from being fully utilised at the cellular level, then your answer may be that you simply need an increase in your dose. Give it a go and let us know the result. This is quite often something that you need to do on your own, it is useless taking serum thyroid function tests when you are taking natural desiccated thyroid extract. This is one medication that tells you whether it is working or not by symptoms and signs. You titrate your dose according too how you feel. Luv - Sheila I've been watching this thread with interest as for months and months despite seeing a really good osteopath who didn't fix it, I've had sudden weakness in my right knee which caused my knee to give way especially walking up stairs and also a problem with left back pelvic area stiffening up causing me to hobble about and at its worst causing sciatica (ouch!) These all went away almost as soon as I started Armour in May but have come back these last two days together with swollen puffy feet, legs and hands later in the day, which I think was triggered by the excessive heat and humidity last weekend. I'm sure I read a post from JOT to the effect of us being under more strain in the heat and needing to adjust our meds. Jackie x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Hi Sheila/all Yes this is one of the documents I would have referred you to - I always know when my adrenals are compromised as my left hip starts to hurt and feel dry. I also confirmed the findings with my osteopath and she agreed that the adrenals do relate to the skeletal system. Therefore if your knees and particularly left hip are hurting you now know why. It starts on the left travels to the knees then the rotation knee/foot and then bingo the whole body skews out. I know I suffered with this so badly when I first got ill - I have no issues with my hips knee etc now - only on occasions - just been on antibiotics and I said to my husband my adrenals are being affected by these tablets he said why - I said my left hip is hurting me - when I stopped the course of tablets the left hip stopped hurting. Our bodies are amazing. Best wishes Mandy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Thanks Sheila, you are right I was awaiting upping it until my adrenal saliva test came back, which it did this week as I kept reading that I may need to treat my adrenals first in order for the Armour to work. When the test came back on Monday looking a little erratic you suggested I contact Dr P, which I am awaiting a return call from. I started Armour on 25 May on half a grain and quickly upped to one grain on 2 June (I was impatient) and think I am due to increase to 1.1/2 about now, so think I'll go ahead and do it as I'll probably have to wait a while for a telephone consultation with Dr P. I'm upping my iron with vit c which is working, have started on B vits, Selenium and ginseng and also have an appointment with Dr R at Sheffield in August re the safe removal of my amalgams. I've also started to take half a teaspoon of Bicarb (yuk) first thing to help remove the excess candida as well as probiotics and cut down on sugars/starches, as I suspect I probably do have it systemically as I still do get a swollen tummy despite being gluten free for years. I wonder if/when I may start to lose some weight???? Or is that the million dollar question? Thanks again Sheila, you're an absolute gem Jackie xOn Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 11:35 AM, Sheila <sheila@...> wrote: When did you last have an increase of your Armour Jackie. You need to keep increasing your dose every 3 to 4 weeks by half a grain until you reach the level where all of your symptoms have disappeared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 That's fantastic Mandy!!! Makes so much sense, thank you so much for this ! Jackie x Therefore if your knees and particularly left hip are hurting you now know why. It starts on the left travels to the knees then the rotation knee/foot and then bingo the whole body skews out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Oh this is great Jaki: ....and I just love the diagram....I have a thing for adrenal/thyroid diagrams LOL Cheers, JOT > I found this very interesting too and I hope you don't mind me jumping in here. Found this info. Jaki > > > http://tuberose.com/Adrenal_Glands.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 30, 2011 Report Share Posted June 30, 2011 Thanks for the reminder Sheila as once or twice I think its only been two hours. Shall make myself a note ! Jackie xOn Thu, Jun 30, 2011 at 4:13 PM, Sheila <sheila@...> wrote: Jackie, don't take any iron or calcium supplements anywhere near to your natural thyroid extract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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