Re: should I supplement DHEA?

[Guest guest]

Hi Susie,

DHEA you will know is an adrenal steroid hormone manufactured from cholesterol. It works in sync with Cortisol...if you like and it is converted to our sex hormones.......Giving DHEA will support the adrenals...its an individual thing and it may be appropriate for you to try it with your levels so low.

I take 25mgs (max dose ofr most ladies 50mgs for men) I take it first thing in the morning replicating what my body would normally do that is have high levels (as with Cortisol) in the morning.

SID EFFECTS the DHEA can become testosterone as a preference......At first I got a couple of whiskers I plucked but now that has settled down and it feels good......indeed all my other hormonal imbalances have settled as a result. I too support my adrenals with a ship load of vits and minerals etc.....including NAX but the DHEA has been an important addition.

Has this helped is there more you need to know? Best of luck...Sally xx

I posted my adrenal results a few weeks ago, but am slightly confused about the whole DHEA thing!My second and fourth cortisol samples were slightly low, the other two were normal. My DHEA samples were:0.34 range: 0.40-1.471.30 range: 2-6I'm on NAX, vit c etc, but what I was wondering is whether I should get myself some DHEA? Or will the DHEA improve by itself given that I'm now treating my adrenals?I've read about some people who seem to do well taking the DHEA, but then have also read that it's a cortisol antagonist, so I'm confused!Thansk in advance!Susie

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally

Thanks very much for your response.

Hope you don't mind me asking - how did your adrenal results compare to mine?

Are you self-medicating with the DHEA or under guidance?

What sort do you use and did you start off on a really low dose?

Is it like taking hc in that you need to let people know in case of accidnets

etc ? Does your body come to rely on it in the same way?

>

> Hi Susie,

>

> DHEA you will know is an adrenal steroid hormone manufactured from

cholesterol. 

> It works in sync with Cortisol...if you like and it is converted to our sex

hormones.......Giving DHEA will support the adrenals

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

ray peat talks about this

http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/three-hormones.shtml

really, if it were me, i'd want to see blood tests for progesterone,

pregnenolone, dhea and see what was low and follow on accordingly.

vitamin A is important too,

" Therefore adrenal malfunction is a fat deficiency. So the first step is simple

and logical: eat more fat, especially cholesterol–rich fats contained in animal

meats, eggs, fish, especially butter, which also contain all of fat soluble

vitamins A, D and E. The adrenals cannot make adrenal hormones out of

cholesterol without vitamin A. "

http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/treat1.php

i'd take professional advice on what to do, or at least get blood tests

chris

>

> Hi all

> I posted my adrenal results a few weeks ago, but am slightly confused about

the whole DHEA thing!

>

> My second and fourth cortisol samples were slightly low, the other two were

normal. My DHEA samples were:

> 0.34 range: 0.40-1.47

> 1.30 range: 2-6

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Suse,

I was initially started by doc but I just do my own thing now. I had one 4x spit test and it showed low DHEA like your own and my cortisol was out of sync too.....but I never needed HC supplement...

I think my advice would be dont be frightened of these supplements....obviously becareful and educate yourself about them, but what to do with them is so individual its a case of finding out what your body wants and needs and how it wants/nneds it...

I get mine on NHS prescription and so it has changed a couple of times...I suppose whichever one is the most generic or cheapest at the time of Boots Chemist ordering it from their suppliers!! Currently from ' Laboratories'.

I started by taking 25mgs and that is what I take today. I take 20mins before breakfast as soon as I wake and I chew it (not good taste) I take my ERFA and T3 at the same time and I chew them all and let some absorption take place in my mouth and eventually swallow the saliva...I chew until they are only water.

Its not quite like HC...in that you dont get the severe reaction if you suddenly stop. However, If I had to stop just take it alternate days then every couple of days for a while then reduce until you stop ....I just listen to my body and how I feel or think it feels!!!! But I would carry a list of medication and especially if you were abroad...

sally xx

Hope you don't mind me asking - how did your adrenal results compare to mine? Are you self-medicating with the DHEA or under guidance?What sort do you use and did you start off on a really low dose?Is it like taking hc in that you need to let people know in case of accidnets etc ? Does your body come to rely on it in the same way?

[Guest guest]

Hi

a couple of things I would comment about your adrenals, cholesterol etc.,

When your adrenals are fatigued if you can give them pregnenalone or DHEA supplementation, this saves the adrenals doing that work, making their job easier and reduces the stress they are under. Vit A is not easiely utilized by the body when we are hypothyroid, this is one of the reasons the adrenals and thyroid are inextricably linked. Cholesterol isnt fat........it is a waxy sterol which is trasported inside protein transporters alongside fats such as triglycerides...but I agree this is another of the reasons we get high levels of cholesterol as well as the effect on our Liver etc.

Sally xx

ray peat talks about this http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/three-hormones.shtmlreally, if it were me, i'd want to see blood tests for progesterone, pregnenolone, dhea and see what was low and follow on accordingly.vitamin A is important too, "Therefore adrenal malfunction is a fat deficiency. So the first step is simple and logical: eat more fat, especially cholesterol–rich fats contained in animal meats, eggs, fish, especially butter, which also contain all of fat soluble vitamins A, D and E. The adrenals cannot make adrenal hormones out of cholesterol without vitamin A. "http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/treat1.phpi'd take professional advice on what to do, or at least get blood tests

chris>> Hi all> I posted my adrenal results a few weeks ago, but am slightly confused about the whole DHEA thing!> > My second and fourth cortisol samples were slightly low, the other two were normal. My DHEA samples were:> 0.34 range: 0.40-1.47> 1.30 range: 2-6>

[Guest guest]

I would definitely say that you needed 25mgs DHEA daily to build

up these levels. The DHEA will not build up by itself, however much you may

wish it to. You may not feel the benefit of DHEA for quite some time, as this

does not 'happen overnight' but continue to take it until you DO feel the

benefit. DHEA we start to lose as we get older and our body cannot function

efficiently if this is low - see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dehydroepiandrosterone

I'm on NAX, vit c etc, but what I was wondering is whether I should get myself

some DHEA? Or will the DHEA improve by itself given that I'm now treating my

adrenals?

I've read about some people who seem to do well taking the DHEA, but then have

also read that it's a cortisol antagonist, so I'm confused!

Thansk in advance!

Susie

[Guest guest]

OK, for a contrasting view...DHEA is an " antagonist " to cortisol- it serves to lower and balance cortisol if it gets too high. (Among other functions.)Here in the U.S., on the natural desiccated thyroid forums, we do NOT recommend at ALL supplementing DHEA if both DHEA and cortisol are low. We recommend only supplementing the cortisol with HC, and allowing the DHEA levels to right themselves as the adrenals heal. Those of us here in the U.S. who have tried DHEA when both DHEA and cortisol were low, found that it hurt us and didn't help us. This was even when we were taking HC to supplement the cortisol, along with the DHEA supplements. I cannot tell you how much worse I felt- when all I wanted to do was GET WELL. This has happened to many others of us, as well. So now, we have created a basic advice to all who come to our forums, to not take DHEA if cortisol is low (even if DHEA is low, also). We never advise supplementing DHEA if both DHEA and cortisol are low. So, this is just a different viewpoint, please do what you feel is best. Cherwyn

[Guest guest]

I wouldnt suggest everyone takes DHEA by any means and usually the DHEA falls and Cortisol rises initially . Also there is the issue with DHEA of hormone dependant tumours and taking 7 Keto-DHEA as an alternative if necessary.

I personally would try the vits and minerals in advance of DHEA and HC...but there is a place for everything and unfortunately with this disoder what suits one is not suitable for another for sure its finding what works for us each as individuals. But I dont disagree with your contrasting view!! but I do most definately agree with doing what you feel is best. tehe. Sally xx

OK, for a contrasting view...

DHEA is an "antagonist" to cortisol- it serves to lower and balance cortisol if it gets too high. (Among other functions.)Here in the U.S., on the natural desiccated thyroid forums, we do NOT recommend at ALL supplementing DHEA if both DHEA and cortisol are low. We recommend only supplementing the cortisol with HC, and allowing the DHEA levels to right themselves as the adrenals heal.

Those of us here in the U.S. who have tried DHEA when both DHEA and cortisol were low, found that it hurt us and didn't help us. This was even when we were taking HC to supplement the cortisol, along with the DHEA supplements. I cannot tell you how much worse I felt- when all I wanted to do was GET WELL. This has happened to many others of us, as well. So now, we have created a basic advice to all who come to our forums, to not take DHEA if cortisol is low (even if DHEA is low, also).

We never advise supplementing DHEA if both DHEA and cortisol are low.

So, this is just a different viewpoint, please do what you feel is best.

Cherwyn

[Guest guest]

> hi Sally

>

> i have read that low vitamin A can exacerbate thyroid problems by reducing the

bodies ability to produce TSH. I have also read that people with hypothyroid

have problems converting beta-carotene to vitamin A - is this what you meant by

the body not being able to use vitamin A? i haven't read anything that says the

body can't use preformed vitamin A when hypothyroid etc? I believe it was dr

langer who wrote about TSH, betacarotene and Vitamin A , though i don't have the

link to hand.

>

> My TSH is low, (0.7 - i call that low, even if no one else does!) and i am low

on vitamin A, so i have wondered whether tsh is fairly low because of vit A

deficiency.

>

> i was just trying to make the point that i'd not necessarily supplement

without tests (i know that dhea is low in this case but what about other things

like vit A, pregnenolone, progesterone etc) . I'd take vitamin A and

pregnenolone and see how i got on. but that is with the luxury of tests, i

suppose. dhea seems to be one where some people say don't take it with adrenal

fatigue, other say yeah take it. other people say things like pregnenolone's no

good as you have no control over what it converts to.

>

> re: cholesterol

>

> http://www.vitaminsinamerica.com/news/pregneno.htm

> The conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone is aided by the presence of

sufficient vitamin A, vitamin E, thyroid hormone, copper, and light, and can be

blocked by too much estrogen, X-rays, ultraviolet light, unsaturated oils, and

iron

>

> " Cholesterol isnt fat........it is a waxy

> > sterol which is trasported inside protein transporters alongside fats such

as

> > triglycerides...but I agree this is another of the reasons we get high

levels of

> > cholesterol as well as the effect on our Liver etc. "

>

> i do wonder why people go 'oh no cholesterol' rather than look at what's not

working? it never occurs to anyone to check all the above does it. most people

dont' know, and those that do know, most of them don't care?

>

> chris

>

>

> >

> > Hi

> > a couple of things I would comment about your adrenals, cholesterol etc.,

> > When your adrenals are fatigued if you can give them pregnenalone or DHEA

> > supplementation, this saves the adrenals doing that work, making their job

[Guest guest]

Hi

> i have read that low vitamin A can exacerbate thyroid problems by reducing the bodies ability to produce TSH. I have also read that people with hypothyroid have problems converting beta-carotene to vitamin A - is this what you meant by the body not being able to use vitamin A? i haven't read anything that says the body can't use preformed vitamin A when hypothyroid etc? I believe it was dr langer who wrote about TSH, betacarotene and Vitamin A , though i don't have the link to hand. Yes that is exactly what I meant. I didnt put it very well did I?>> My TSH is low, (0.7 - i call that low, even if no one else does!) and i am low on vitamin A, so i have wondered whether tsh is fairly low because of vit A deficiency. Well of course that I suppose is the three million dollar question...with our problems I think we have to try something and see if it works most of the time....I agree it could be due to that...what are your other results and do you have major symptoms of hypo?>> i was just trying to make the point that i'd not necessarily supplement without tests (i know that dhea is low in this case but what about other things like vit A, pregnenolone, progesterone etc) . I'd take vitamin A and pregnenolone and see how i got on. but that is with the luxury of tests, i suppose. dhea seems to be one where some people say don't take it with adrenal fatigue, other say yeah take it. other people say things like pregnenolone's no good as you have no control over what it converts to.

Yes, Again I think sometimes it is necessary not to stick to rules and try something if the logical stuff isnt working...for example there are many people who are hypothyroid who display symptoms of hyperthyroidism.....So for most of the time those symptoms are hyperthyroidism but on rare occasions not they are not!!!! Dont be too rigid is what I am trying to say...and yes I think someone mentioned this earlier that in the States with DHEA even when low they dont always supplement it.

The same applies to DHEA you cant count on what it will be come...I think what we have to believe is the body knows what its doing and will figure out what it needs to do with it. I for example took DHEA and this seemed to boost my testosterone levels...I didnt necessarily need my testosterone boosting...but eventually that settled down within a couple of months and those effects disappeared. My body knew what to do it just had to figure out how to do it when it wasnt functioning normally. >> re: cholesterol>> http://www.vitaminsinamerica.com/news/pregneno.htm> The conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone is aided by the presence of

sufficient vitamin A, vitamin E, thyroid hormone, copper, and light, and can be blocked by too much estrogen, X-rays, ultraviolet light, unsaturated oils, and iron....yeap agreed. That is one of the reasons we need good vitamin E levels and why I recommend it for adrenal dysfunction.......and the other stuff too. copper is adequate if you have copper pipes for water and you drink the water from your taps...there are trace elements in some of the adrenal and thyroid multiplex tabs and of course vit A. If you have yellow tinge to your skin especially palms of hands...this is due to inability to turn beta-carotene into vit A.>> "Cholesterol isnt fat........it is a waxy> > sterol which is trasported inside protein transporters alongside fats such as> > triglycerides...but I agree this is another of the reasons we get high levels of> > cholesterol as well as the effect on our

Liver etc."

Ofcourse cholesterol is not the bad guy...it is essential to life itself not just humans but plants too.....so it is the good guy, but you see docs have this wrong too....(not all ).

Yes what frustrates me, the other day I was chatting to someone who said her dad had heart probs. She said oh he is on Statins. Oh really so how high is his cholesterol expecting her to say >5. She said oh no its really low but the doc put him on Statins anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cant begin to tell you how sad and angry that makes me feel.

Even if his cholesterol was high I would argue putting him on Statins isnt solving the problem. As you say WHY? is his cholesterol high? Why because its likely he has a thyroid problem.....ARGH>> i do wonder why people go 'oh no cholesterol' rather than look at what's not working? it never occurs to anyone to check all the above does it. most people dont' know, and those that do know, most of them don't care?

Sally xx

[Guest guest]

Oh heck, I'm more confused than ever lol! Don't really know what to do

now....maybe just stick with the NAXs and vitamins and see what happens?

If I did go down the DHEA route though, how do you know how much to take?

Thanks for the interesting discussion everyone. I'm learning so much

Susie

[Guest guest]

If you decide to take DHEA (and this is something most of us

need as DHEA depletes as we age and is essential for a well functioning body)

then you take 25mcgs, for as long as it takes for your body to start

functioning better than it is right now and get your levels up. It might take

some time. Some people take DHEA for life, like thyroid hormone replacement if

it is really low to keep their levels topped up.

Luv - sheila

Oh heck, I'm more confused than ever lol! Don't really know what to do

now....maybe just stick with the NAXs and vitamins and see what happens?

If I did go down the DHEA route though, how do you know how much to take?

Thanks for the interesting discussion everyone. I'm learning so much

Susie

[Guest guest]

> My TSH is low, (0.7 - i call that low, even if no one else does!) and i am low

on vitamin A, so i have wondered whether tsh is fairly low because of vit A

deficiency.

>> Well of course that I suppose is the three million dollar question...with

our problems I think we have to try something and see if it works most of the

time....I agree it could be due to that...what are your other results and do you

have major symptoms of hypo?

I agree with that – trying what works (within reason of course :-) ). I have

tried all kinds of things. A helpful phrase is " push where it moves " . But I

would only advocate trying all kinds of things in myself…

I do have some symptoms of hypo-t yes. Initially, on the hertoghe questionnaire,

I scored highest in needing DHEA, pregnenolone, testosterone, GH, didn't really

score much on thyroid at all. Now I'm on treatment for all the first 3.

Interestingly, my thyroid symptoms, by the same questionnaire now come up as

probably being low thyroid. I suspect the recent supps etc have let my body use

more thyroid. Don't have any recent labs tho since starting treatment.

> i was just trying to make the point that i'd not necessarily supplement

without tests (i know that dhea is low in this case but what about other things

like vit A, pregnenolone, progesterone etc) . I'd take vitamin A and

pregnenolone and see how i got on. but that is with the luxury of tests, i

suppose. dhea seems to be one where some people say don't take it with adrenal

fatigue, other say yeah take it. other people say things like pregnenolone's no

good as you have no control over what it converts to.

>>Yes, Again I think sometimes it is necessary not to stick to rules and try

something if the logical stuff isnt working...for example there are many people

who are hypothyroid who display symptoms of hyperthyroidism.....So for most of

the time those symptoms are hyperthyroidism but on rare occasions not they are

not!!!! Dont be too rigid is what I am trying to say...and yes I think someone

mentioned this earlier that in the States with DHEA even when low they dont

always supplement it.

Yes I agree with this and sometimes try things very cautiously as long as it's

an educated and well informed trial, preferably under supervision but not always

possible

>

> re: cholesterol

>

> http://www.vitaminsinamerica.com/news/pregneno.htm

> The conversion of cholesterol to pregnenolone is aided by the presence of

sufficient vitamin A, vitamin E, thyroid hormone, copper, and light, and can be

blocked by too much estrogen, X-rays, ultraviolet light, unsaturated oils, and

iron....>>yeap agreed. That is one of the reasons we need good vitamin E levels

and why I recommend it for adrenal dysfunction.......and the other stuff too.

copper is adequate if you have copper pipes for water and you drink the water

from your taps...there are trace elements in some of the adrenal and thyroid

multiplex tabs and of course vit A. If you have yellow tinge to your skin

especially palms of hands...this is due to inability to turn beta-carotene into

vit A.

Too much zinc – without copper – also depletes copper of course; I took high

dose zinc with copper and still ended up low on copper and high on zinc. I

don't drink the water, mind you :-)

> " Cholesterol isnt fat........it is a waxy

> > sterol which is trasported inside protein transporters alongside fats such

as

> > triglycerides...but I agree this is another of the reasons we get high

levels of

> > cholesterol as well as the effect on our Liver etc. "

>Ofcourse cholesterol is not the bad guy...it is essential to life itself not

just humans but plants too.....so it is the good guy, but you see docs have this

wrong too....(not all ).

Yes what frustrates me, the other day I was chatting to someone who said her dad

had heart probs. She said oh he is on Statins. Oh really so how high is his

cholesterol expecting her to say >5. She said oh no its really low but the doc

put him on Statins anyway!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I cant begin to tell you how sad and angry that makes me feel.

Me too; there is either no information or misinformation, why don't they really

look at this stuff in detail and look at what is or isn't working. Of course

they don't do that, and I suppose they don't have the time. But also I don't

think they're that bothered. It's just fixing the light on the dashboard,

rather than get to the bottom of the problem in the engine. Mind you what

annoys me too is when people are so hung up on psychology to (going off on a

tangent), assuming all their problems are down to how they think (kind of

blaming themselves in a way). Of course, this is sometimes right that people

can think badly and look to the negative, but I think can often a symptom.

Brain chemistry too – if hormones and vitamins and diet are right it's harder to

feel/think badly, in my experience.

best regards

chris

>

>

>

> Hi

> > i have read that low vitamin A can exacerbate thyroid problems by reducing

the

> >bodies ability to produce TSH. I have also read that people with hypothyroid

> >have problems converting beta-carotene to vitamin A -

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila

Thanks very much. Do many people on here self-medicate with DHEA? (just

wondering if there's anyone you could point me to who I could speak to about

their experience doing so)

Would it be a good idea to see if Dr P would supervise me doing it? Should I run

it by my NHS endo first or not mention it at all? (I'm not seeing him again till

November).

I know I did have the blood test for DHEA done. I'll have to ask my GP what the

results were. I know it was 'normal' though. Do you know anything about the

reliability of the saliva test compared to the blood test and vice versa?

Where's a good place to get DHEA from and what type would be best?

Thanks muchly

Susie x

>

> If you decide to take DHEA (and this is something most of us need as DHEA

> depletes as we age and is essential for a well functioning body) then you

> take 25mcgs, for as long as it takes for your body to start functioning

> better than it is right now and get your levels up. It might take some time.

> Some people take DHEA for life, like thyroid hormone replacement if it is

> really low to keep their levels topped up.

>

> Luv - sheila

>

[Guest guest]

You can run it by your NHS Endocrinologist but are you confident

that he knows sufficient about the workings of the whole endocrine system to be

able to trust what he says =- honestly, they are very few and far between. I

would however, discuss this with Dr Peatfield. I am not sure off hand which of

our members are taking 9or have taken) DHEA is a supplement but no doubt if

there are any and reading this thread, they will come and respond to you.

I know I had low DHEA and I myself bought 25mcgs tablets of DHEA and took them

for about a year to boost my levels. I had no problems and felt fine, and have

since felt no need to take any more. I was guided in this by a hormone

specialist who is no longer around. I got my DHEA 25mcgs from www.pharmwest.com - the same place I also

originally bought my Melatonin from and found them excellent.

Luv - Sheila

Thanks very much. Do many people on here self-medicate with DHEA? (just

wondering if there's anyone you could point me to who I could speak to about

their experience doing so)

Would it be a good idea to see if Dr P would supervise me doing it? Should I

run it by my NHS endo first or not mention it at all? (I'm not seeing him again

till November).

_._,___

[Guest guest]

I get my DHEA from my GP free on prescription but you need open minded doc..... I take 25mgs which is the maximum dose recommended for females; males 50mgs. Take it first thing in the morning 20mins before breakfast...I chew mine along with NDT and T3. The makers are Laboratories...but you can get it off the internet, just check the label...they are considered dietary supplements.

[Guest guest]

All of our hormone levels drop as we age. They start draining from our bodies

around 25 years of age. Either the blood labs or the saliva should give you a

pretty good idea on where your levels are....some people believe in one test

better than the other, but if you get a general idea.......You should shoot for

a level about 150. (women)

Many people get headaches from the use of DHEA so you'll have to decide that for

yourselves. I find that it is best to work with someone if you aren't familiar

with DHEA....but finding them is indeed difficult.

For women, 5 or 10 mgs a couple times a week should be your starting point. If

you are taking bio-identical testosterone as well, than just one drop of that a

week. It's best to start at the lowest dose and see how it feels.

I use these tablets and they are recommended by most people who supplement

hormones:

http://www.iherb.com/Enzymatic-Therapy-Youthful-You-DHEA-5-mg-60-UltraCaps/2159?\

at=0

It's always good to read the reviews also, I find that very helpful.

Cheers,

JOT