How much NDT to take?

[Guest guest]

Hi, I have been getting increasingly tired again, am taking 6 grains of Erfa for

a couple of months and have gradually increased since last July when I started

to take it; I have noticed the HypoT symptoms coming back again, pains in joints

and a bit of 'brain fog', tiredness and sleeping too much. I am really

wondering how much do I have to put the Erfa up to to feel o.k. again as I don't

know what the upper limit is? Or do you think I need T3? I have noticed these

symptoms coming back over the last month or so. thanks.

[Guest guest]

Hi Becky,

If you were OK on NT I cant see how it would lose its efficacy.... just

increasing it hopefully surely isn't the answer.....

Have you checked that everything else is ok, B12, D3, Folate, Ferritin,

Adrenals, Copper, Zinc....... If one of these was low to start with, it could

be that taking the NT has fully depleted it.... for example, T3, taxes the

adrenals

I'd be looking at everything else before blindly increasing the NT. something

might be stopping you converting the t4 in the NT ?... What are your levels of

reverse T3 like? How much free t3 do you have?

.

>

> Hi, I have been getting increasingly tired again, am taking 6 grains of Erfa

for a couple of months and have gradually increased since last July when I

started to take it;

[Guest guest]

What other medication/supplements are you taking. You may well

have one (or more) of the many associated conditions that goes hand in hand

with the symptoms of hypothyroidism and you need to go through each one of

them, eliminating each one before going on to the next possibility. These must

NOT be guessed at - ask your GP to test for any of the following (at least

those tests the NHS will do) and if they don't, then you need to beg, borrow or

steal to get them tested to find the culprit. Often a cause for continuing

symptoms is too little thyroid hormone replacement because doctors are afraid

to increase the dose, but this is obviously not the cause of your particular

problem, though what many sufferers do not know is that quite often, the dose

of thyroid replacement they are taking can be too high, and they

continue to suffer

Dr Peatfield gives some of the following reasons for this:

You may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of

T4, its conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal

hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production

down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding

properly, and provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But

sometimes it doesn’t. If the illness has been going on for a long

time, the enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably

denied by many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up,

unconverted. So it doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This

makes the patient feel quite unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest

pain. If provision of adrenal support doesn’t remedy the situation, the

final solution is the use of the active thyroid hormone, already converted, T3

- either synthetic or natural.

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida

albicans, a yeast, which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body,

invades the lining of the lower part of the small intestine and the large

intestine. Here, the candida sets up residence in the warmth and the

dark, and demands to be fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make

you suffer terrible sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can

cause very many symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which

interfere with the uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the

levels - which we usually test for - can be very high, and make successful

treatment difficult to achieve until adequately treated.

Then

there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being hypothyroid

for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the

binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3 won’t go

in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate

vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again. But this can

be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the dose up

gradually.

And

then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

Then

we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked; each

part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work

properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.

But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that

occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative

dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance

downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones.

This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms

ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra

oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most

especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,

improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

Then,

we must never forget the possibility of mercury poisoning (through amalgam

fillings) - low levels of ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate,

copper and zinc - all of which, if low, stop the thyroid hormone from being

utilised by the cells - these have to be treated.

As Dr

Peatfield says " When you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these

problems have to be dealt with; and since each may affect the other, it all has

to be done rather carefully.

Contrary to cherished beliefs by much of the medical

establishment, the correction of a thyroid deficiency state has a number of

complexities and variables, which make the treatment usually quite specific for

each person. The balancing of these variables is as much up to you as to

me – which is why a check of morning, day and evening temperatures and

pulse rates, together with symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful.

Many of you have been ill for a long time, either because you

have not been diagnosed, or the treatment leaves you still quite unwell.

Those of you who have relatively mild hypothyroidism, and have been diagnosed

relatively quickly, may well respond to synthetic thyroxine, the standard

treatment. I am therefore unlikely to see you; since if the thyroxine

proves satisfactory in use, it is merely a question of dosage.

For many of you, the outstanding problem is not that the

diagnosis has not been made – although, extraordinarily, this is

disgracefully common – but that is has, and the thyroxine treatment

doesn’t work. The dose has been altered up and down, and clinical

improvement is variable and doesn’t last, in spite of blood tests, which

say you are perfectly all right (and therefore you are actually depressed and

need this fine antidepressant).

The above problems must be eliminated if thyroid hormone isn't

working for you.

Sheila

Hi, I have been getting increasingly tired again, am taking

6 grains of Erfa for a couple of months and have gradually increased since last

July when I started to take it; I have noticed the HypoT symptoms coming back

again, pains in joints and a bit of 'brain fog', tiredness and sleeping too

much. I am really wondering how much do I have to put the Erfa up to feel

o.k. again as I don't know what the upper limit is? Or do you think I need T3?

I have noticed these symptoms coming back over the last month or so. thanks.

[Guest guest]

HI,

The following was sent to me by craik45, I think he meant to send it to

the forum so it's a cut and paste job... Actually, thinking about it, I never

got on with Erfa, I do much better with nature throid. x

_____________________________________________

Hi Becky

I tried Erfa last year and was quite stunned on how bad I felt on it after

moving over from 2.5 grains of Nature Throid. Almost caused a crash when I was

out driving and realised that it was completely not working for me and came off

it at once. All thyroid supplementation is both different and subtle.Each is

different and if you feel the hypo signs coming back then go back to that which

works.

Hope you find what works for you.

Best wishes

>

> Hi, I have been getting increasingly tired again, am taking 6 grains of Erfa

for a couple of months and have gradually increased since last July when I

started to take it;

[Guest guest]

Hi , I have been taking my morning temperature as per Dr test for

about two weeks and it has been consistently low i.e. 34 and 35 whereas the

normal temp would be 37 degrees. I do take B vitamins, iron, calcium etc., but

if it is a low functioning thyroid as per the temperature I suppose I will have

to keep increasing the Erfa, I started Erfa last July and have gradually

increased it, the reason being symptoms have come back and so I increase it,

they go away once I increase the Erfa, but this keeps going on and I am

wondering when it is going to stop and stabilise? Thanks.

> Hi Becky,

If you were OK on NT I cant see how it would lose its efficacy.... just

increasing it hopefully surely isn't the answer.....

>

> Have you checked that everything else is ok, B12, D3, Folate, Ferritin,

Adrenals, Copper, Zinc....... If one of these was low to start with, it could

be that taking the NT has fully depleted it.... for example, T3, taxes the

adrenals

> .

[Guest guest]

Sounds the easiest thing in the world to

do Becky - just keep increasing your dose of NDT to take away your symptoms - but

it just doesn't work like that. Problem is, you don't appear to be utilising

the thyroid hormone properly, and there is a reason why you are not. As I have

said before, you need to know why.

Are you actually doing anything suggested

in previous messages to find out the possible cause? Increasing your Erfa again

and again will eventually lead to your body objecting strongly and giving you

some very nasty symptoms because of toxicity caused by the excess thyroid

hormone. You need to get up to date thyroid function tests done to help us see

exactly what is going on.

Sheila

Hi Sheila, I forgot to mention (because I am so

busy) that I have been checking my morning temperature before I do anything

else and it has been consistently low for over a couple of weeks since I have

been checking it usually 34 or 35 when the normal temp is 37 degrees. I suppose

this shows low metabolic function. In the past I have had the HypoT symptoms

return so I just put the Erfa up and they disappear again, but I am getting a

bit concerned because I still have to keep putting it up since last July every

so often and I am now on 6 grains, and why doesn't it seem to stabilise on say

3 grains? How high will I have to go to remain on the same dose for say 2 years

or something, or will I just have to keep increasing it?

_,_._,___

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, yes I do agree I need to find a doctor that is going to look after my

thyroid so that I can have the appropriate blood tests etc., so far I am doing

this all on my own. I am looking at the list to see the doctors in London

although it would be good to have a personal recommendation from someone who has

seen a doctor in the London area. My mother is also interested in finding

someone who specialises in endocrinology as she is having a lot of joint pains

on 150 mcg synthetic thyroxine and is thinking of switching to NDT but would

like a doctor to supervise this. I am a bit wary of some doctors as I have had

not good luck with some of them in the past and I don't want to spend a lot of

money and be disappointed and be worse off for money. It is very difficult to

see my G.P. as he only works at the surgery for three days in the week and is

one of the most popular G.P.'s and if you book in advance you have to wait three

weeks to see him, he was the only doctor who knew about the Inflammatory

Arthritis I had last year and he over saw the whole thing in sending me to a

Rheumatologist etc. I suppose I'll just have to get on the phone tomorrow and

ring a few doctors on the list and go from there.

> Sounds the easiest thing in the world to do Becky - just keep increasing

> your dose of NDT to take away your symptoms - but it just doesn't work like

> that. Problem is, you don't appear to be utilising the thyroid hormone

Sheila