Re: Really need some help - feeling pretty desperate today!

[Guest guest]

Hi

sorry you're feeling so bad

i wanted to ask are you sure you're sleep is ok? I have sleep apnea, which

means i stop breathing during sleep. It can apparently be a symptom of

hypothyroidism as well as a problem in it's own right so to speak. Before

treatment for sleep apnoea, i was stopping breathing 90 times an hour, so I

never really got a good nights sleep, and was rather tired and not very well

generally. Just a thought. Do you have a partner - have they advised if you

snore? (Though snoring and sleep apnea aren't the same, if you snore then stop

snoring/breathing then startle and breathe again, that's kind of a clue!)

Your TSH doesn't look very good to me, though i'm sure someone more knowledgable

than me will be along soon to help you out there wiht some advice what to do.

chris

>

> Hi all,

>

> Well, the title says it all and I really hope that someone will be able to

advise me of the next steps to take before I crack up entirely!

>

> Today I've had to have the day off work because I woke after a good night's

sleep feeling like I'd just run a marathon. All day I've been debilitatingly

tired with aching weak legs, weak arms and a dizzy, foggy head. It took me 10

minutes to remember the name of my close colleague to phone in sick to work. I

think all this is because I attempted to do two things on Sunday - a meal out

with friends and a visit to a London museum (hardly a crazy life for a 36 year

old!!).

>

[Guest guest]

Hi :

Sorry you aren't feeling well today. Can you ask your DR for natural thryoid

meds? Is there a reason you are on only T$ medication?

I just want to address your veggie lifestyle. Most vegetarians are notorious for

being very LOW in B-12 along with the other B vitamins. I'd get you started on a

good B vitamin complex today and also an extra B-12 supplement. Make sure you

buy the METHYL form of B12. This is the best form and hard to find in the store.

Generally you have to order it:

http://www.iherb.com/Jarrow-Formulas-Methyl-B-12-1000-mcg-100-Lozenges/129?at=0

You can also find this in 5000 mcgs, same brand.

Probably low on the iron too. Have the Doc check your FERRITIN iron levels along

with iron serum. The best form of iron to take is the iron bisglycinate. This

form is chelated and enters the system easier:

http://www.iherb.com/Bluebonnet-Nutrition-Chelated-Iron-18-mg-90-Vcaps/13960?at=\

0

I'd also start on an adrenal glandular...

Cheers,

JOT

>

> NB. Not sure if this is relevant, but I'm a vegetarian - though eat fish - and

I wonder if I could also be low in Iron, or some other element?

>

[Guest guest]

MODERATED TO REMOVE MOST OF PREVIOUS MESSAGES ALREADY READ. PLEASE DELETE THESE

LEAVING JUST A SMALL PORTION OF WHAT YOU ARE RESPONDING TO BEFORE CLICKING

'SEND'. LUV - SHEILA

____________________________________________________

I *think* I sleep OK - no reason to suspect I have sleep apnoea. I was sleeping

terribly before the diagnosis - insomnia and needing the loo all night long, but

that has resolved since I've been on levothyroxine. So really no reason to

continually be feeling like this. TSH is now 4.3 btw - at least it was 5 weeks

ago. Probably now down within the normal range, but I'm still feeling awful.

Thanks,

.

>

> Hi

>

> sorry you're feeling so bad

>

> i wanted to ask are you sure you're sleep is ok? I have sleep apnea, which

means i stop breathing during sleep. It can apparently be a symptom of

hypothyroidism as well as a problem in it's own right so to speak. Before

treatment for sleep apnoea, i was stopping breathing 90 times an hour, so I

never really got a good nights sleep, and was rather tired and not very well

generally. Just a thought.

[Guest guest]

These are the tests which we need to see:

TSH

Free T4

Free T3

RT3 (Reverse T3)

Ferritin (Iron reserve - very IMPORTANT)

CBC (Complete Blood Count)

Serum Iron

Anti-TP

TgAb (Thyroid Antibodies)

Adrenal Cortisol levels (swab test-Adrenal Fatigue test-4 swabs)

B-12

B-6

Folate

Magnesium

Potassium

Vitamin D3

Copper

Zinc

Selenium

Vitamin C

Aldosterone

It is important to have the TSH, Free T4 and Free T3 tested to see if you are

converting the T4 meds into T3 hormone. You're on a very low dose of T4 meds

now. With your TSh at 7 or more this is far too high. Most people feel good with

a TSH at 1.0

Ask your DR to put you on natural thyroid meds like ERFA, Armour thyroid or to

start you on T3 as well.

This is Sheila's list on the vitamin recommendations:

Here are some links to the reasons why you need to have these levels of certain

vitamins and minerals checked and their connection to your thyroid and metabolic

status.

· Low iron/ferritin: http://www.thewayup.com/newsletters/081504.htm

andhttp://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm . I also used the following article in our

last TPA Newsletterhttp://www.femail.com.au/iron-levels-tony-pearce.htm

· Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

· Low vitamin D3:

· http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

andhttp://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

· Low magnesium:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

· Low folate:

· http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

andhttp://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

· Low copper/zinc:

http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

andhttp://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effecti\

ve_Thyroid_Function.html

You can show your DR these reasons of why you may not be converting the T4 meds

into T3 hormones in your system.

Do you have DR Peatfield's book? This is a must buy for learning about

the thyroid and how it works and what it needs to survive.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Your-Thyroid-How-Keep-Healthy/dp/190514010X

Cheers,

JOT

[Guest guest]

So you dont wear leather shoes etc? Do you use soaps, shampoos etc., they all contain pretty grusome bits of animal...its very difficult to avoid. The beauty of pigs thyroid is it would be wasted other than we use it up; then because it used as a supplement in the pharaceutical industry it is handled with more care and better conditions than your soaps and shampoos washing powders etc....

I am veggie, but I understand what your saying........

Hi JOTThanks for your reply - it's definitely helpful in terms of the tests that I need to ask for. I have a docs appointment tomorrow am so will request them then. In terms of why I'm on T4 only - that's just what my doc prescribed, and he has been very difficult to deal with so I don't think he would be open to prescribing anything non-standard as it were . Also, I believe the natural form is dessicated pig's thyroid and this is offputting to me as a vegetarian (although I know all drugs are tested on animals and some may include animal extracts). Are there any other synthetic meds I could be taking alongside thyroxine though, that my doctor may be open to prescribing? Thanks againC>> Hi :> > Sorry you aren't feeling well today. Can you ask your DR for natural thryoid meds? Is there a reason you are on only T$ medication?>

[Guest guest]

Anyway, the problem is how to tackle this with my GP. My original TSH readingwas 7.4, I was on 50mcg levo for 2 months, now upped to 75mcg for the last 5weeks. Things have improved a little (some days I even feel back to normal!) butI'm still having way too many days like today and I'm starting to feel reallydepressed and desperate to feel well again. My experiences with my GP so farhave been awful - he only cares about me being in the normal TSH range and isnot interested at all in how I'm actually feeling, telling me that 'everyonegets tired'. He seems to want me out of his office as quickly as possible, whichI find very intimidating.

.....Are there any other synthetic meds I could be taking alongside thyroxine though, that my doctor may be open to prescribing?

Hello ,

Looks like we have a namesake newbie on the forum, another , so your mail confused me a little at first J

If your GP is only looking at the TSH and not the patient, then you might be better off asking for a referral to an endo of your choice (not his).

I do understand your reluctance to take natural thyroid; although Sally has a point in saying that none of us can really avoid consuming animal products in one way or another. I am not a vegetarian, but for ethical reasons I often wish I were. The way I look at it is - animals will get slaughtered for human consumption; there is nothing I can do about that. Pigs thyroids will go to waste except for those that are used to producing dissected thyroid hormone .... I take my pills and I am thankful for the help it is offering me. I don't think I could justify taking NDT if animals were bred and killed solely for their thyroids, though. I look in the same way at organ donations.... if in my death I can help save lives, then so be it.

But if you can't ethically justify taking NDT, then you could always find an endo who might prescribe (synthetic) T3 in addition to Levothyroxine. I don't think your GP would prescribe it for you (although you could ask), but if you email Sheila privately, she will send you a list of endos who are sympathetic to prescribing T3 and you could ask for a referral to an endo of your choice.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I'm so sorry you are feeling so poorly and it doesn't help that your GP is so

unhelpful.

Is there any way you can change to a different GP? I know how hard it is to have

to battle with a Dr when you are feeling so ill. I have the same problem myself.

Regarding the dessicated thyroid, I am veggie and I feel the same as you.

I had my first appointment with Dr P this week and I was dreading telling him

that I was vegetarian as I know he recommends dessicated thyroid, glandular

supplements etc.

As it happens, after some light heart teasing of " Oh no you're not a

vegetarian? " and " What was he going to do with me!! " he was actually very

understanding and we agreed that I would support my adrenals with all the usual

herbs & vitamins (Adrenomax, Vit C, Siberian Ginseng, B Vits, essential fatty

acids etc etc) and that when ready I should have a trial of synthetic T3 which I

am trying to source online at the moment.

I did apologise for being " awkward " as I know it makes things harder for me in

my treatment, but Dr P said he has seen many others who feel the same and that

if taking the dessicated thyroid was that upsetting for me then it's value would

probably be counteracted by the additional stress it would cause.

I am very new here , and I am also feeling dreadful at the moment, but I

just wanted to say that you shouldn't ever feel bullied into taking something

that you don't feel comfortable with, especially if its going to add to you

stress levels.

As others have said, I would really recommend Dr P's book & spend time to read

all the information files on this forum as they have really helped me to

understand it all (though I am still learning!)

Good luck with your next Dr's appointment!

Take care,

x

>

>

In terms of why I'm on T4 only - that's just what my doc prescribed, and he has

been very difficult to deal with so I don't think he would be open to

prescribing anything non-standard as it were . Also, I believe the natural

form is dessicated pig's thyroid and this is offputting to me as a vegetarian

(although I know all drugs are tested on animals and some may include animal

extracts). >

[Guest guest]

Sally, I agree but it's just a personal thing. I don't want to get into an

debate re vegetarianism on here, at the end of the day it's just a choice .

>

> So you dont wear leather shoes etc?  Do you use soaps, shampoos etc.,

*************moderated to remove old messages...... you all know the rules, why

don't you clip 'em? *******************

[Guest guest]

No claire I'm sorry I wasnt challenging your views and reason for being veggie...as I said I too am veggie and get a little bored with those challenges.

Perhaps I put it the wrong way, what I was trying to say...the animals will be killed regardless of you having NDT.......So I was trying to say its like wearing leather shoes ...the animals are not killed for the leather it is a by product. But the other thing is that animal products are in many things we are not always aware of such as shampoos and soaps etc......

So No dont worry I fully agree personal choice and you are fully at liberty to make that personal choice I wouldnt question that....xx

Sally, I agree but it's just a personal thing. I don't want to get into an debate re vegetarianism on here, at the end of the day it's just a choice . >> So you dont wear leather shoes etc? Do you use soaps, shampoos etc.,*************moderated to remove old messages...... you all know the rules, why don't you clip 'em? *******************

[Guest guest]

will send my precious list to you privately .

Luv - Sheila

But if you can't

ethically justify taking NDT, then you could always find an endo who might

prescribe (synthetic) T3 in addition to Levothyroxine. I don't think your GP

would prescribe it for you (although you could ask), but if you email Sheila

privately, she will send you a list of endos who are sympathetic to prescribing

T3 and you could ask for a referral to an endo of your choice.

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

, we have all the information you need regarding sourcing

T3online. Go to our FILES section accessible from the Home Page of this forum http://health.groups.l.com/gruop.thyroid treatment

- click on FILES. On the page that opens, click on 'Internet Pharmacies' and

you can see all the reputable Internet Pharmacies we recommend where you can

buy T3 online without prescription. You can also buy many thyroid and adrenal

supplements from Nutri Ltd with a 33% discount for TPA members. Again, in the

FILES section, scroll down to 'Discounts on Tests and Supplements' and open the

Nutri ltd. File, and follow the instructions for ordering, and don't forget to

quote the TPA reference number.

Any problems, just shout.

Luv - Sheila

As it happens, after some light heart teasing of " Oh no you're not a

vegetarian? " and " What was he going to do with me!! " he was

actually very understanding and we agreed that I would support my adrenals with

all the usual herbs & vitamins (Adrenomax, Vit C, Siberian Ginseng, B Vits,

essential fatty acids etc etc) and that when ready I should have a trial of

synthetic T3 which I am trying to source online at the moment.

As others have said, I would really recommend Dr P's book & spend time to

read all the information files on this forum as they have really helped me to

understand it all (though I am still learning!)

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Thank you, I should have explained fully what I meant, I just didn't want to

hijack s thread.

I have found the pharmacy files and ordered from Nutri. (thank you for the

discount its a big help)

The reason I am still searching is that I am trying to find some T3 without

lactose (I'm intolerant) and gelatine free (cos I'm veggie). Everything I find

seems to have one or the other or both?

I did find some made by Paddock on the International Pharmacy website that look

ok, but when I searched for reviews of that brand lots of people were saying

they were very weak? And they seemed quite expensive?

I found some T3 liquid that people had mentioned on here, but I am nervous of

ordering it as everyone else seems to use tablets and I'm a bit worried if this

liquid is genuine?

Whenever I search for T3 via google I seem to find lots of body building

websites??

I guess I will just have to order the mexican ones, I just don't want to take

something every day for the rest of my life that is going to make me ill as I

feel bad enough already.

Thanks again,

x

p.s. If anyone has a brand of T3 that is lactose & gelatine free please let me

know? I have found a Turkish brand called Tiromel, but I can't seem to find the

full ingredients? x

>

> , we have all the information you need regarding sourcing T3online. Go

> to our FILES section accessible from the Home Page of this forum

> http://health.groups.l.com/gruop.thyroid treatment - click on

> FILES.

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Did you get any replies to this mail? I noticed s reply about T3 synthetic....this may be helpful to you.

I felt like you one day came and I felt 'normal' I even sang spontaneously and felt like dancing too....that hadnt happened for a very long time. Then it didnt happen again for absolutely ages and I thought I had imaginedd it!!!:-( Then another came some time latr.....and then a little later another day. Then two consecutively...and so on. So hold on to that.

See how you go on this dose...and personally I would tell your doc that you must feel better on higher doses....so he either gives you some T3 or increase your t4....take a male with you...they tend to back down a little in the company of another man. Pick one off the street if needs be.even an inflatable if necessary...he is behaving like a bully and not a caring medical doc.

Sally xx

Anyway, the problem is how to tackle this with my GP. My original TSH readingwas 7.4, I was on 50mcg levo for 2 months, now upped to 75mcg for the last 5weeks. Things have improved a little (some days I even feel back to normal!) butI'm still having way too many days like today and I'm starting to feel reallydepressed and desperate to feel well again. My experiences with my GP so farhave been awful - he only cares about me being in the normal TSH range and isnot interested at all in how I'm actually feeling, telling me that 'everyonegets tired'. He seems to want me out of his office as quickly as possible, whichI find very intimidating.

.....Are there any other synthetic meds I could be taking alongside thyroxine though, that my doctor may be open to prescribing?

But if you can't ethically justify taking NDT, then you could always find an endo who might prescribe (synthetic) T3 in addition to Levothyroxine. I don't think your GP would prescribe it for you (although you could ask), but if you email Sheila privately, she will send you a list of endos who are sympathetic to prescribing T3 and you could ask for a referral to an endo of your choice.

[Guest guest]

excellent news for you then . xxxx

Hi Sally,Yes, I did get some really helpful replies and they helped me through a really horrible week where I was doubting whether I would ever feel better. However... I went to see a different GP and

[Ed]