Re: I don't know what to do about thyroxine dose - thoughts please

[Guest guest]

Sorry Carole,

I have come to this a little late and you may well have received a number of great answers to your problem. I am sorry your not feeling well. You should be able to improve once you thyroid supplement is at the right level.

I would suggest your heart probs are very much part of thyroid dysfunction but also your calcium chanel blockers....what are you supposed to be taking them for and what exactly are you taking (everything)?

You TSH should fall as you take more thyroid supplement; that is normal. What should happen is your T4 and T3 levels though should rise in the opposite direction to your TSH. It is also normal to have a surppressed TSH with thyroid supplement intake.

You need to have you FT3 and rT3 levels taken and then work out the average using those figures.....

I'm sure you know T4 can be converted to rT3 instead of just T3 and rT3 is neutral the body is unable to use it. This is a safety net when the body 'thinks' it has too much T4 in its system....that is one of the reasons many people prefer NDT or taking amix of T4 and T3.

Your muscles need both calcium and magnesium and indeed many of the minerals you should be taking in your diet.

HOWEVER, one of the problems we hypos have is that we dont absorb nutrients from either food or supplements as well as we should.

One way to help that is to increase our stomach acid...most often low in hypothyroids.....so take an HCXL Betaine supplement with your food each time you have a main meal.

The If you can let us know why you are on your calcium blockers that would help, but if you feel unwell taking them then does that tell you your body doesnt like them?

Most of us in the western world have high levels of calcium and this is particularly so for hypos. Most of us in the western world have a deficiency of magnesium and this is particularly so for hypos.

This imbalance causes many of the symptoms we experience and some of those particularly relate to our heart muscle function. This balance of calcium and magnesium MUST be reinstated. But you dont do it by blocking calcium using drugs...you do it by supplementing with magenesium citrate or taurate.....This truly is essential to the good function of your heart muscle and indeed all your musccles but further also for good function of your brain and those good friends of ours the adrenal glands....many many reasons to make sure our magnesium levels remain in blance with calcium. I wont go into greater detail but there is much information about this out there.

I would suggest you start taking a good quality magnesium supplement (as recommended above)...immediately. Then do tell us the details re other stuff youare taking and we will see if we have any further useful adivce for you.

So Summary...you probably need to increase you thyroid supplement BUT you may need to add T3 in whatever shape or form and then increase your magensium levels and ?????? stop calcium blockers......the other thing you should do when taking a minerals upplement is to take also in additiona a multi-mineral supplement......

Best of lluck,

Sally xx

diagnosed 2007 and never happy with treatment. Im on Levothyroxine. TSH 0.1 on 50mcg so considered oer medicated and dose reduced from 50mcg to 37.5 to 25 and tsh remaind 0.1 throughout, so went down to 12.5mcg daily,and TSH dropped to 0.03 so I took a genova test and it showed Im low in T3, back to Dr and currently waiting for endo app to arrive. Still left on 12.5mcg meanwhilePROBLEM... I have two heart problems going on, Supraventricular tacchycardia and atrial fibrillation. both are being aggrevated, if not caused by, my thyroid situation. I do have calcium channel blocker medication, but hate how they make me feel, and they seem to upset my heart rather than help it sometimes, so I generally only take half a dose most days and full dose when hearts worse than usual, but I feel so ill all of the time. Waiting on cortisol tests coming back, think they will be ok or perhaps slightly low, but I do have NAE in so could take that if you

think its needed.Because Im low T3 and poss heading toward RT3, I don't know what to do for best about my thyroxine dose, bearing in mind reducing the dose made TSH go lower rather than higher so it went wrong way. Im doing the right things as far as possible, eg selenium and so on. I don't know how long till I see endo, or even if he will do anything, but am arming up with references etc. but Im unable to do much as I feel so ill all the time, yet need to be able to move house alone when a place comes up, which could be soon, so I really need to start feeling better even if only short term, so, to feel better do I need to take more thyroxine or stop it completely? below lab ranges in brackets, so then with the heart issues and ....with a blood TSH 0.03 (0.30-6.0) Ft4 12.7 (10-25) urine test Ft3 454 (592-1850)which way do I take thyroxine dose?Carole

[Guest guest]

Hi Carole

If your free T3 is low it means you need to take T3. So, you should be on

either Natural Desiccated Thyroid ie Erfa, Armour... or you should be on a

combination treatment of T4/T3 or T3 only (I have the same problem and am on

150mcg T3 only). It is obvious that you are unable to convert the inactive

hormone thyroxine (T4 into the ACTIVE hormone triiodiothyronine (T3).

This will exacerbation your heart problems, slow you brain down and make you

weak with no energy or motivation - you may find you are unable to walk or lift

things if your fT3 level remains low.

I'm pressed for time right now but if you look in the FILES section you should

find some info there. You can also use the 'search' function at the top - put in

'low fT3' and try some others and you may be amazed at how much info will come

up.

Love

Jacquie

-

> Im on Levothyroxine. TSH 0.1 on 50mcg so considered oer medicated and dose

reduced from 50mcg to 37.5 to 25 and tsh remaind 0.1 throughout, so went down to

12.5mcg daily,and TSH dropped to 0.03 so I took a genova test and it showed Im

low in T3, back to Dr and currently waiting for endo app to arrive. Still left

on 12.5mcg meanwhile

>

> PROBLEM... I have two heart problems going on, Supraventricular tacchycardia

and atrial fibrillation. both are being aggrevated,

>

> with a blood TSH 0.03 (0.30-6.0) Ft4 12.7 (10-25)

>

> urine test Ft3 454 (592-1850)

>

>

> which way do I take thyroxine dose?

>

>

> Carole

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Carole

If your free T3 is low it means you need to take T3. So, you should be on

either Natural Desiccated Thyroid ie Erfa, Armour... or you should be on a

combination treatment of T4/T3 or T3 only (I have the same problem and am on

150mcg T3 only). It is obvious that you are unable to convert the inactive

hormone thyroxine (T4 into the ACTIVE hormone triiodiothyronine (T3).

This will exacerbation your heart problems, slow you brain down and make you

weak with no energy or motivation - you may find you are unable to walk or lift

things if your fT3 level remains low.

I'm pressed for time right now but if you look in the FILES section you should

find some info there. You can also use the 'search' function at the top - put in

'low fT3' and try some others and you may be amazed at how much info will come

up.

Love

Jacquie

-

> Im on Levothyroxine. TSH 0.1 on 50mcg so considered oer medicated and dose

reduced from 50mcg to 37.5 to 25 and tsh remaind 0.1 throughout, so went down to

12.5mcg daily,and TSH dropped to 0.03 so I took a genova test and it showed Im

low in T3, back to Dr and currently waiting for endo app to arrive. Still left

on 12.5mcg meanwhile

>

> PROBLEM... I have two heart problems going on, Supraventricular tacchycardia

and atrial fibrillation. both are being aggrevated,

>

> with a blood TSH 0.03 (0.30-6.0) Ft4 12.7 (10-25)

>

> urine test Ft3 454 (592-1850)

>

>

> which way do I take thyroxine dose?

>

>

> Carole

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Carole

I have similar heart issues to you, which my cardio has said is most likely

thyroid related and will hopefully resolve when my thyroid is properly

medicated. I have however found that the tachy is triggered (or made worse) by

various other situations, like my blood sugar going all over the place, eating

certain foods and so on, so I think it's helpful to look at the whole picture

and see if there's anywhere you can reduce burdens on your system.

Adrenal fatigue is another part of it for me, so getting that checked is

helpful.

My cardio put me on beta-blockers (correct me if I'm wrong, but I assume that's

what you're on?). They are usually bad news for hypoTs and make us much worse. I

didn't know this before I started them. I wondered why I was getting more and

more tired and depressed. My doc changed me to a new drug called IVABRADINE. it

doesn't work in the same way as beta-blockers, it's not a calcium channel

blocker and it (usually) doesn't cause low bp either, which can be a problem

with bbs. It's a fairly new drug, used for angina. Tachycardia is an 'off-label'

use for it, so it's probably something only a cardio would think of prescribing.

Worth asking about.

I'm sure you know this already, but don't just stop the beta blockers. Rebound

tachycardia when you stop suddenly is dreadful.

I find magnesium helps me a lot. I've only just discovered this. The best type

for heart problems is magnesium taurate. Biocare do one you can order off your

nutrition shop (and get the tpa discount). I've just taken delivery of mine.

Can't wait to try it.

Can't really comment on your levo dose as my problem is different - I convert ok

but then don't absorb the t3 at cellular level and the build up of t3 aggravates

the tachy big time. I think the others are right in saying you probably need t3

in some form - whether synthetic or having dessicated. I'm no expert, but my

instinct would be to try something as natural as possible eg naturethroid.

Have you got any allergies or intolerances? Sometimes tachy can be caused or

aggravated by them. Sometimes also, people have problems with the ingredients in

levo. There's variuos purer options available. I've been switched to liquid levo

which is sugar and lactose free. Just a thought.

Hope that helps. Please shout if I've raised more questions than answered.

SUsie x

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally, Jacquie, Susie and all

Ive had my ex here for a few days helping me, but now hes headed home and I can

get on with things as usual, so apologies for delay in responding and thanks for

all the helpful advice, and I will look into 'low fT3' as Jacquie suggested and

up again to 25mcg and see if its better or worse for doing that.

I was prescribed beta blockers first but they caused breathing issues so was

swapped to the calcium channel blockers for tachycardia and Atrial Fibrillation

(which I also believe are thyroid linked). The med does work, so if my heart

goes wild, then I will take it rather than risk full blown heart attack or

stroke, but I have now stopped taking them regularly, and will be taking extra

magnesium citrate and q10 as my first line. I didnt know taurate was best heart

one, so will swap to that when citrates gone, it works for me so will wait till

Ive used it up. If magnesium fails, then yes, I would take the CCB from

necessity to get settled down again, but am trying to avoid it if possible.

Apart from soy and rye, I have no intolerances or reactions I know of.

I understand my TSH should fall if I take more thyroid supplement, but it

doesnt. Mine falls if I take LESS. Im on a tiddly 12.5mcg with a TSH 0.03 but

if I take 25mcg my TSH goes UP to 0.1 which while the figures ok, its in the

wrong direction so signifies a problem. Im waiting to see endo and am asking

him in writing ahead of the appointment, for T3 addition but don't know if he

will allow it yet. If he doesn't I think it likely I will order T3 privately

and try medicating myself till I can find other help. But wait and see what he

says first!

I have been hunting for a suitable mineral supplement, but being post meno not

sure I need iron, (till tested anyway), plus with hashi I don't want iodine in

there, so havent found one yet, but am trying to figure which is best anyway. If

you have a good cost effective one please feel free to share. Taking q10,

magnesium, multivit, b complex, and c, I felt ill when taking Vit D so stopped

it. my zinc and selenium ACE I dont do every day as I feel concerned it may

build up too much,

I cant afford the Rt3 test or mineral ones, but recently took the genova 24hr

urine test and then afterwards, the adrenal profile, results.........

T3 454 (592-1850) LOW outside range

T4 970 (347-1994). Middle of range

Ft3 ratio LOW 0.5 (0.5-2.0)

No long term ongoing stress in my life, pretty calm and very dull really,

sample 1 LOW 8 (12-22)

sample 2 IN RANGE 5.9 (5-9)

sample 3 IN RANGE 4.4 (3-7)

sample 4 IN RANGE 2 (1-3)

TOTAL DAILY CORTISOL LOW 20.3 ( 21-41)

DHEA am sample LOW 0.15

DHEA pm sample LOW 0.07

DHEA MEAN 0.11 (0.20-0.70)

DHEA CORTISOL RATIO LOW 0.54 (0.6 - 3.0)

think thats everything, hope so anyway

Carole

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

I personally would get my selenium from three brazil nuts eaten as a snack mid morning rather than pay for supplements.

I would add a multi-minerals when taking any single mineral supplement you should take a multi-mineral alongside and similarly when taking any single vit B you should also take a B complex alongside...helps the body put the single supplement where its needed....

Think I would do as you are sugggesting with the CCB......good...hope the magnesium workds well for you.

I would say your not thyroid supplemented adequately and if they were my results I would be haranging the doc to increase. HOWEVER, Seems like you need DHEA supplement.......and if possible to increase your adrenal supplements further.....leave the Cortisol thing for now and see if it improves with DHEA and additional or higher dose adrenal supplements.

Just shows another reason why TSH unreliable!!!!!

Sally xx

Hi Sally, Jacquie, Susie and allIve had my ex here for a few days helping me, but now hes headed home and I can get on with things as usual, so apologies for delay in responding and thanks for all the helpful advice, and I will look into 'low fT3' as Jacquie suggested and up again to 25mcg and see if its better or worse for doing that.

-->

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally,

I cant eat nuts and cant find brazil nut butter at online tesco either, till I

do its supplement for me. Im going to get some multi minerals and add extra Bs

as well, but am only able to tolerate half a NAX just now so working on building

it, and Im looking into DHEA now too, so a good start has been made hopefully.

Thankyou for helping straighten and clear things for me, much appreciated, and

thankyou to others likewise,

Carole

xx

>

>

> Hi there,

> I personally would get my selenium from three brazil nuts eaten as a snack mid

> morning rather than pay for supplements.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Carole,

Its a pleasure If I can help...honestly like Sheila I want to shout this out to the world as so many people are affected by it.

OK no worries with the nut thing...if you are able to take brazil nut butter just make it yourself nothing needs to be added just brazils...but does your allergy include brazils I wasnt sure ?

OK well take as much NAX as you can tolerate...keep reviewing your dose at some point you will possibly be able to take more.

Best of luck,

Sally xx

Hi Sally,I cant eat nuts and cant find brazil nut butter at online tesco either, till I do its supplement for me. Im going to get some multi minerals and add extra Bs as well, but am only able to tolerate half a NAX just now so working on building it, and Im looking into DHEA now too, so a good start has been made hopefully. Thankyou for helping straighten and clear things for me, much appreciated, and thankyou to others likewise,

[Guest guest]

You should take 200mcgs Selenium daily with food if you are

suffering with symptoms of hypothyroidism as our soil is deficient in Selenium.

I believe Brazil Nuts are grown in forests are the worlds most radioactive food

- be warned. See http://farnham.blogspot.com/2007/04/brazil-nuts-for-that-healthy-glow.html

- so if you want to glow in the dark, eat away.

Luv - Sheila

>

>

> Hi there,

> I personally would get my selenium from three brazil nuts eaten as a snack

mid

> morning rather than pay for supplements.

>

[Guest guest]

From: Sheila <sheila@...>thyroid treatment Sent: Mon, 27 June, 2011 14:55:51Subject: RE: Re: I don't know what to do about thyroxine dose - thoughts please

You should take 200mcgs Selenium daily with food if you are suffering with symptoms of hypothyroidism as our soil is deficient in Selenium. I believe Brazil Nuts are grown in forests are the worlds most radioactive food - be warned. See http://farnham.blogspot.com/2007/04/brazil-nuts-for-that-healthy-glow.html - so if you want to glow in the dark, eat away.

Luv - Sheila>> > Hi there,> I personally would get my selenium from three brazil nuts eaten as a snack mid> morning rather than pay for supplements.>

[Guest guest]

Yes I dont disagree to an extent however, it is much better to get our nutrients as God intended where at all possible. Taking nutrients alongside all the other substances in foods such as nuts is important.

.....and there isnt much food around now that isnt contaminated, processed, sterilized, radiated, pasteruised, .......

galvanised and mercury plated...

even the water we drink from our taps and who knows what goes into the bottled stuff...and if you drink from a bottle you will be poisoned by the plastics.......

fish...animal proteins, eggs, breads toothpaste.....

in the end we have to make a decision about what we do, what food we eat, whether we eat any food at all

and even how we eat it!!!!

Oh my, I have a headache coming on just thinking about it! phew.

So far as glowing in the dark, we are all doing that now any how thanks to Chenobal and Japan....etc. But I dont disagree. Sally xx

You should take 200mcgs Selenium daily with food if you are suffering with symptoms of hypothyroidism as our soil is deficient in Selenium. I believe Brazil Nuts are grown in forests are the worlds most radioactive food - be warned. See http://farnham.blogspot.com/2007/04/brazil-nuts-for-that-healthy-glow.html - so if you want to glow in the dark, eat away.

Luv - Sheila>> > Hi there,> I personally would get my selenium from three brazil nuts eaten as a snack mid> morning rather than pay for supplements.>