Re: cortisol & yellowing of whites of eyes?

[Guest guest]

Thanks

I'm going to ring Dr S tomorrow so I'll see what he suggests.

I don't think it's vit A as I wouldn't say my diet is high in it but thanks for

the link.

Cheers

Dawn

>

> Hi

>

> What does Dr S have to say about it all? can he or your gp not offer you some

blood tests for iron etc?

moderated to remove old messages!!!!!!

[Guest guest]

By the way I did the hormone questionnaire and was probably or possibly for most

of them - probably for -cortisol, DHEA, thyroid (??), and pregnenolone. I did

have blood tests for all of these last year from the endo (who was pretty

useless in my case) and they all came back 'normal' - so as far as they are

concerned I am completely normal and have absolutely no endo related problems.

But might be worth getting them tested again.

I'm thinking that putting my head in a large bucket of sand for the foreseeable

future could be the way forward?? (I'm joking of course!!)

My body seems to have it in for me as my blood tests always come back 'normal'

and my GP seems to think I'm making it up - so I'm not convinced going to him is

the way forward - I'll see what Dr S says.

thanks again

Dawn

[Guest guest]

did you get the reference ranges with results?

normal doesn't mean 'optimal' does it. ie, range 0.1 - 1.0, you could be 0.105

- that's normal: a person your age may need to be 7.6 or whatever. Also it

depends on the ref ranges, who did they check against to come up with these

values? What were your values when you were healthy? How do these compare

against your values now? (just saying - so normal may not be 'normal'). oh

incidentally, when is not normal, normal? When a dr decides that it is : i had

a testosterone test which was below range and i was told that was normal. if

they have decided all your problems are in your mind then they may tell you

everything is normal...

>> I'm thinking that putting my head in a large bucket of sand for the

foreseeable future could be the way forward?? (I'm joking of course!!)

it is one way :-)

>

> By the way I did the hormone questionnaire and was probably or possibly for

most of them - probably for -cortisol, DHEA, thyroid (??), and pregnenolone. I

did have blood tests for all of these last year from the endo (who was pretty

useless in my case) and they all came back 'normal' - so as far as they are

concerned I am completely normal and have absolutely no endo related problems.

But might be worth getting them tested again.

[Guest guest]

well I wanted the ref ranges, especially for the hormone tests as these can

change according to time of the month, age, wind direction, phase of the moon,

doctors whim (am I starting to sound cynical? ) but they said they

couldn't/wouldn't give me them - I seem to remember they told me they weren't

relevant but they were normal and I didn't need to worry about them.

As I was already being treated like a 'difficult' patient (I had been to see Dr

S and was being treated by the time I got the results back) I decided not to

push it at the time. But having recently got my GP notes I discovered that they

often don't put the ref ranges on the lab results - I assume because they didn't

know any details except my age!

This 'normal' business drives me insane as well - how can you define 'normal'

what's normal for one person is not what's normal for another!

Mind you as far as the endo department of the QE in Bham are concerned (and my

GP) there is nothing wrong with my thyroid either, despite having thyroiditus at

21, various thyroid symptoms & goiter for the past 20 years, and a family

history of it! Blood tests are my enemy!!

I'll let you know how the sand goes...

Dawn

>

> did you get the reference ranges with results?

>

> normal doesn't mean 'optimal' does it. ie, range 0.1 - 1.0, you could be

0.105 - that's normal: a person your age may need to be 7.6 or whatever. Also

it depends on the ref ranges, who did they check against to come up with these

values? What were your values when you were healthy? How do these compare

against your values now? (just saying - so normal may not be 'normal'). oh

incidentally, when is not normal, normal? When a dr decides that it is : i had

a testosterone test which was below range and i was told that was normal. if

they have decided all your problems are in your mind then they may tell you

everything is normal...

>

> >> I'm thinking that putting my head in a large bucket of sand for the

foreseeable future could be the way forward?? (I'm joking of course!!)

>

[Guest guest]

ok well if you can try and get the results, and post them here?

if thyey won't give them you, show them they don't know the meaning of the word

difficult!

>

> well I wanted the ref ranges, especially for the hormone tests as these can

change according to time of the month, age, wind direction, phase of the moon,

doctors whim (am I starting to sound cynical? ) but they said they

couldn't/wouldn't give me them - I seem to remember they told me they weren't

relevant but they were normal and I didn't need to worry about them.

[Guest guest]

If this was me, I would be reducing my thyroid hormone

replacement by 50mcgs T4 at least and get the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile

done by Genova Diagnostics. See our Files Section on accessible form the Home

Page of this forum web site and click on 'Discounts on Tests and Supplements'

and then 'Genova Diagnostics'. If you have low adrenal reserve, no amount of

thyroid hormone is able to be fully utilised at the cellular level and you will

get the symptoms of toxicity, which is what you sound as if you may have. You

would need to treat your low adrenal reserve. I have attached a document you

should read showing some of the reasons why thyroid hormone replacement stops

working.

Ask your GP also to test your blood to test your levels of

ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc. Get

these blood results together with the reference range for each test done when

they are returned from the lab, and post them here on the forum so we can help

with their interpretation.

Is there a possibility you could be suffering with systemic

candidiasis or have mercury poisoning because you have amalgam fillings?

People don't realise that you can get hypothyroid symptoms when

on too high a dose of thyroid hormone replacement just the same as when you are

on no replacement or too low a dose.

Luv - Sheila

Hi, I am presently taking 200mcg thyroxine

& 1grain of armour and am being treated by Dr S. TSH <0.02 T4 27 (last

blood test april 11)

I still have some problems such as constipation; aching muscles and joints;

woozy head (not brain fog - I had that before - more a sense of being spaced

out); verbal incontinence (muddling words or talking absolute rubbish when my

brain knows what I want to say but by the time it gets to my mouth it has

changed drastically!!); repeated sore throats and pains in my ears/ear ache

(which is a bit random but I've had it for several months and GP can find no

reason for it); occasional palpitations; I get really tired after any type of

'stressful' situation; and my eyes feel tired and ache most of the time (this

is a new thing). I do think my cortisol levels might be a problem and am

looking into that and I think I might be a bit anaemic.

I have recently noticed that the outer edges of my eyes are turning yellow (I

have no liver problems that I am aware of, no pain/discomfort and I had the

usual liver function tests last year all 'normal')Could this be linked to the

other symptoms/a cortisol problem?

If anyone has had anything similar I would love to hear your story or if anyone

can give advise that would be great.

1 of 1 File(s)

Why thyroid hormone stops working (2).doc

[Guest guest]

Doing serum tests to check your levels of cortisol/DHEA are

pretty useless. They only show a snap-shot of what amount of cortisol/DHEA you

are secreting at that particular time. We need to know what you are secreting

at 8.00a.m. 12 noon, 4.00p.m. and again at midnight. Genova Diagnosis do a 24

hour salivary adrenal profile so you can get an accurate account of what is

happening and send the results to you. See our Files section and click on the

Folder 'Genova Diagnostics' on the page that opens Dawn.

Other than that, what might help is if you write a letter to

your GP setting out all of your symptoms and signs. Check these against those

in our web site www.tpa-uk.org.uk under

hypothyroidism.

Take your basal temperature for 4 or 5 mornings before you get

out of bed and list these if they are 97.8 degrees F (36.6 degrees C) or less.

List any members of your family who have a thyroid or autoimmune

disease as this can run down the family line.

List all the thyroid function tests you need, i.e. TSH, free T4,

free T3 and get him to check to see whether you have antibodies to your

thyroid. Ask also for him to check your levels of ferritin, vitamin B12,

vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc and ask him to let you have

these results when they are available, together with the reference range for

each test done. Then you can post them on the forum so we can help with their

interpretation.

Ask for a referral to an NHS endocrinologist of your choice (ask

me for my list of doctors recommended by our members).

Last, send a copy of this letter to the Head of Practice, ask

for your letter of requests to be placed into your medical notes and keep a

copy yourself, in case you need it at a later date.

Good luck - doctors pay so much more attention to the written

word than they do in a face to face consultation.

Luv - Sheila

By the way I did the hormone questionnaire and

was probably or possibly for most of them - probably for -cortisol, DHEA,

thyroid (??), and pregnenolone. I did have blood tests for all of these last

year from the endo (who was pretty useless in my case) and they all came back

'normal' - so as far as they are concerned I am completely normal and have

absolutely no endo related problems. But might be worth getting them tested

again.

I'm thinking that putting my head in a large bucket of sand for the foreseeable

future could be the way forward?? (I'm joking of course!!)

My body seems to have it in for me as my blood tests always come back 'normal'

and my GP seems to think I'm making it up - so I'm not convinced going to him

is the way forward - I'll see what Dr S says.

thanks again

Dawn

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I wonder as you are taking large T4 supplement if you have a conversion problem. You didnt post your FT3 and rT3 that would be helpful if you have it. Also have you taken your basal temperature?

Why do you think you cortisol is a problem?

The other thing is why are you taking so much Levo and so little NDT?

I personally would think you remain hypothyroid....whilst your taking high levels of t4 maybe you have a problem converting it and those tests mentioned above would help gauge that.

By the way the throat and ear thing isnt random that is a common symptom of hypothyroidism.

Sally xx

treated by Dr S. TSH <0.02 T4 27 (last blood test april 11)

[Guest guest]

Hi I agree with about the Beta Carotene and vit A. This can happen not because you are eating a lot of foods with those nutrients but simply because it has built up and the body cannot use it and so tries to get rid of the excess through the skin and eye whites etc. Commonly you will also have yellow palms and soles of the feet.

Deal with the thyroid problem and this will resolve too. In the meantime do try to restrict any supplements which may contain the above nutrients.

I agree if your Liver function has been tested and ok then alongside the sympotms you have (which are not associated with liver problems) then its likely the thyroid.

Beta Carotene is necessary for your body/thyroid gland function in order to produce thyroid hormone. This is a symbiotic relationship; since as the thyroid gland produces its hormone, T3 is necessary for the conversion of Beta Carotene to Vitamin. A!! clever isnt it? When it all works well that is. Perhaps you dont have any/enough T3 and that is the reason for many of your symptoms including this one; you have excess Beta carotene because you dont have enough T3 to convert it to vitamin A, which means you will be vitamin A deficient. This will affect your eyesight etc.

You can tell if your body is having a job converting carotene's as you will notice a yellow tinge on your palm and soles of your feetand whites of eyes. This is another subtle sign of hypothyroidism for the reasons described above.

Vitamin A has a role in immune function.

When one of the thyroid hormones binds to cell receptors a number of biochemical reactions are triggered. These carry messages to the cell nucleus and the cell nucleus is activated, whereby it produces proteins that carry out thyroid functions such as increasing metabolic rate and producing energy/heat. Vitamin A influences how well thyroid hormone receptors in the nucleus of the cell function.

If your thyroid hormone levels are improved (through supplementation) and further if you are able to convert t4 to T3 (or take T3 supplement), then this should resolve.

[Guest guest]

We know there is a difference with serum levels of these hormones and spit test. It would be worth doing the spit test about £70 to put your mind at rest. Again NO TEST is INFALLIBLE enen the glorious TSH....not even scans etc etc.....so they should be questioned...there is always an exception to the rule. Clinicians should rely more on clinical findings otherwise they are technicians or is this what we should call our docs in future. Then indeed do we need them at all; just get a computer to diganose us.......it would probably do ab better job!!!!!

Dawn I have spent 30years trying to convince docs I had hypothyroidism but because of the infallible TSH test ....my bloods were always within range. I now take quite large doses of thyroid hormone supplement including NDT and T3 and have started to feel almost 'NORMAL' again.

Now dont let them fob you off with NORMAL blood tests since those results do not identify NORMAL.....they just identify your results are within range and 10% of people fall outside this range WHO ARE NORMAL!!!!! indeed I believe that hypo and hyper thyroidism is so common amongst the population that it would be difficult to get enough people who are normal. Others on here talk about friends you dont consider themselves hypothyroid and yet they have overt signs and sympotms....a lot of people are ignorant of the subject or are so in awe of their doc they dont question. Thats what docs like. Stick with you guns.

Best of luck Sally xx

By the way I did the hormone questionnaire and was probably or possibly for most of them - probably for -cortisol, DHEA, thyroid (??), and pregnenolone. I did have blood tests for all of these last year from the endo (who was pretty useless in my case) and they all came back 'normal' - so as far as they are concerned I am completely normal and have absolutely no endo related problems. But might be worth getting them tested again.

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[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn....I cant remember who made this analogy but if the NORMAL range of shoe sizes were size 4 to size 11, then could someone who had size 6 feet wear size four or even size 11? NO THEY COULDNT...so what makes us think that we should all fall in line with thyroid function and blood tests?

As a midwife I remember women were made to worry when the scans suggested their baby was small.

I remember one lovely young Indian woman and her partner had worried for the majority of their pregnancy. I admitted them to the unit during their birthing.....They spoke and said we are worried about our small baby. I said why are you worried about a small baby you are only 4'11" and your husband is only 2" taller than you are....you wouldnt expect to have a big baby would you?

The frown and tension was removed so they could get on with having an enjoyable birth and they did and she gave birth to an 8LB baby...pretty big for her I would have thought......!!! that is what 'NORMAL' ranges do to us, they distract us from the reality of what presents in the physical form, be it babies and small parents or hypothyroid signs and symptoms....they are what count. Lets get some logic into our docs for a change.....be strong and stick with your guns...you are right they are wrong. You just have to have a convincing argument now. Sally xx

This 'normal' business drives me insane as well - how can you define 'normal' what's normal for one person is not what's normal for another!Mind you as far as the endo department of the QE in Bham are concerned (and my GP) there is nothing wrong with my thyroid either, despite having thyroiditus at 21, various thyroid symptoms & goiter for the past 20 years, and a family history of it! Blood tests are my enemy!!

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sally, sounds like we are in a similar boat - I've only been at it for 20

years since having thyroiditus and it was only last year when I got really

poorly I found Dr S.

>

> I am loads better than I was but still not quite right with niggly problems

that are driving me potty but I can cope with them, so it's just a matter of

getting my meds to the right place - I'm going to order the saliva test to see

if cortisol is a problem as I have a few connected symptoms like vitiligo (white

patches) on my arms and being wide awake from 10pm ish and finding it really

difficult to get up in the morning!not forgetting untreated hypo for not sure

quite how many years!

>

> I'll let you know how I get on, sometimes I get so fed up with it so it's

lovely to know it's not just me and my doc is NOT right in thinking I'm just a

bit mental!!

>

>

> Dawn x

>

>

>

> It would be worth doing the spit test about

>  Dawn I have spent 30years trying to convince docs I had hypothyroidism but

> because of the infallible TSH test ....my bloods were always within range.  I

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Dawn,

Yes I have those. I also found my skin creases were darker brown colour too. I felt better lying down than standing up and yeah bad in the morning then wake around 10am then drag myself through the day especially after lunch and 3pm....got a little better and then flag again mid evening if you stay up that long then you get another lease of life and feel ok until about 1am....then start to flag again. I still have the white patches, I think the brown creases such as underarm and croth etc are slightly less brown now, but without doubt I dont drag myself around for the majority of the time anyhow. One of my white patches always goes very red in the sunshine, whilst the others remain white...tehe. It looks like skin after you pick off ascab?! but I know its not it is vitiligo.

Do let me know how you get on. do the four x day test not the single test. Have you done the self tests, such as scratching your belly and shining light across your eyes etc?

sally xx

>> I am loads better than I was but still not quite right with niggly problems that are driving me potty but I can cope with them, so it's just a matter of getting my meds to the right place - I'm going to order the saliva test to see if cortisol is a problem as I have a few connected symptoms like vitiligo (white patches) on my arms and being wide awake from 10pm ish and finding it really difficult to get up in the morning!not forgetting untreated hypo for not sure quite how many years!>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally,>> Yes I did both of

those tests and got the expected results - eyes do the 'can't> make up their mind' thing and the belly scratch goes white straight away, stays> for ages and widens. Odd thing is my husband and children do exactly the same> with the belly scratch?>> I think we have very similar sounding days!>> I'll let you know how I get on>> Dawn x> Have you done the self tests, such as scratching your belly and shining light across your eyes etc?