Re: desperate from Italy

[Guest guest]

Hi

Welcome to the TPA forum! sorry to hear you have had such bad experiences with

the doctors and suffering so much.

I am not best placed to answer some of your points, but I did want to ask about

Vitamin A.

Do you take Vitamin A? dry mucous membranes are a sign of vitamin A deficiency,

and Vitamin A can be deficient in hypothyroid states due to hypothyroid people

not being able to convert carotene to vit a? I managed to order natural (fish

oil based) Vitamin A from iherb for a few dollars.

> I've changed endocrinologists and am still not satisfied. First of all, the

first one only measured my thyroid levels and DHEA without doing a cortisol

test. He told me I was hypothyroid and had the DHEA levels of a 90 year old

woman, and put me on 50mg of DHEA per day for two months.

has he tested anything else, like pregnenolone, progesterone, etc? have you

done any questionnaires, to see what symptoms match what hormones. if you look

in the medical questionnaires section, you'll see one by dr hertoghe, which i

have found matches blood test results pretty accurately.

thyroid treatment/files/MEDICAL%20QUES\

TIONNAIRES/

> that wasn't there so it's sitting in a freezer till Monday - will the samples

be ok for 5 days in a freezer, transferring to another city etc etc??

sounds like it'll be ok:

http://www.macses.ucsf.edu/research/allostatic/pdf/FAQs-salivcort.pdf

" Q: Do I have do store the saliva samples in the refrigerator or freezer

immediately?

A: No. Studies have shown that salivary cortisol is stable at room temperature

for a period of

2-4 weeks. This means, that even after four weeks left without refrigeration a

saliva sample

will give the same cortisol level as with immediate determination or with the

samples frozen

until assay. "

http://www.androbalance.co.uk/products-testkits-comprehensive.php

" Hormones in frozen saliva are stable for several months so please freeze

samples until they are ready for submission. "

>cancelling this test as although I know it will confirm the adrenal fatigue I

feel like it's another waste of my time and money - do I need it?.

how will you know if ther's any improvement, over time, if you don't have a

baseline to compare to? low and high cortisol symptoms can be similar ,

apparently, so best to double check. did you get a 24hr urinary cortisol?

>I know I have to divide it into 4 doses- how does one divide the pill into

exact doses? Would 10, 7.5, 5 and 2.5 at bedtime be ok and at what times should

I take these doses?

i was told by a specialist that i could take it how i wanted, be that all in one

go, two doses, or 4. whatever worked for me he said. that said, Jeffries book

says 4 split equal doses, i believe. Others say try to simulate the normal HC

rhythym. The NHS dr just gave it me in two doses, morning and tea time, a

foreign specialist said take it how i felt best. ?

>Should I start the Cinetic at the same time and at what dosage? The pills I

have are 75mg, and it says on the packet that this is equal to 25mcg

levothyroxine, so presumably I would start with one pill and then move up. I

also know I have to keep a temperature chart.

They're equivalent to 25mcg t4, *and* 7.5mcg T3.

From: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands/ The stop the

thyroid madness site says: ITALY's " CINETIC " dried thyroid, produced by Teofarma

srl – Pavia, Italy, contains:

Active ingredients: 75 mg dried thyroid (equal to 25.5 mcg T4 and 7.5 mcg T3);

organic iodine 0.150 mg in thyroid combination)

Tablets are coated. 75 mg with 50 tablets in blister pack. Package insert

recommends 1-2 tablets, 3 times a day (though that may end up being different

according to your needs). They also recommend to swallow pills with water,

without chewing and without dissolving. To be stored not above 77F/25C

i hope someone can help you with your other queries, have you read Dr Peatfields

book on how thyroid ?

Chris

>

> Hello, I'm new here and would love some advice please as I'm so frustrated and

angry at doctors here. I've been suffering various symptoms of hypthyroidism

and adrenal insufficiency for many years now and have only recently been

diagnosed, only at my insistence because they kept telling me my thyroid levels

were within the ranges (the top range for TSH here is 4.20 and I had 4.16).

Some of my symptoms were - very dry skin and hair, extremely dry mucous

membranes,

[Guest guest]

So now I have finally decided that I'm going to self treat - I see no otheroptions. I already have the hydrocortisone and natural dessicated thyroidhormone. I'm sick of all the tests and spending a fortune without seeing any results. This is my body, I know what I'm feeling and I'm tired of being told what they think I should be feeling or taking. For all those years they never believed I was hypo because I was thin and not fat.

I know I have to divide it into 4 doses- how does one dividethe pill into exact doses? Would 10, 7.5, 5 and 2.5 at bedtime be ok and at what times should I take these doses? Should I start the Cinetic at the same time and at what dosage? The pills I have are 75mg, and it says on the packet that this is equal to 25mcg levothyroxine, so presumably I would start with one pill and then move up. I also know I have to keep a temperature chart.

Hello and welcome J

Same old story, isn't it?.... no better endos in Europe than here in the UK L We are all fighting the same windmills, it seems.....

Ok – so let's get down to the nitty-gritty.....

I'm now taking half a teaspoon of Celtic sea salt twice a day along withmagnesium, a B complex with iron (my Ferritin level was 51 in a 25-280 range), high dose vitamin C, extra B12 as I am vegetarian, Vitamin D3,and drink greentea or licorice tea with ginger. Should I be doing anything else before Istart, or taking anything else, and do you think it would be ok to start thehydrocortisone?

Right..... hmmmm – whilst I can fully appreciate where you are coming from, I would still urge caution. You obviously have done your home work, but the way you want to go about it is to start with the cavalry and I would urge you not to do that. You'd run into problems you can't foresee at present and you might regret being hasty. Hydrocortisone is the last resort, not the first treatment. You are doing everything else right, but instead of hitting the adrenals with HC, I would suggest you go softly, softly first and start with NAX (Nutri Adrenal Extra). I don't think there is problem buying that on the internet and having it shipped to Italy, but if there were, there are always ways..... Try this company for most of your supplements....

http://www.yournutritionshop.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes & sppp=20 & page=1 & Keyword=nutri%20adrenal%20extra & category=ALL & highprice= & lowprice= & allwords=nutri%20adrenal%20extra & exact= & atleast= & without= & cprice= & searchfields=

The above link is for NAX

http://www.yournutritionshop.com/shopdisplayproducts.asp?Search=Yes & sppp=20 & page=1 & Keyword=solgar%20vit%20B12 & category=ALL & highprice= & lowprice= & allwords=solgar%20vit%20B12 & exact= & atleast= & without= & cprice= & searchfields=

the above link is for B12 ... I know, you already take B12, but B12 is notoriously difficult for the body to absorb. It's best taken up in injected form, but failing that, sublingually is second best... normal supplements that you swallow are pretty useless..... Those solgar nuggets work.

But let's start at the beginning....

By the sounds of it, you already experience myxedema due to hypothyroidism and your adrenal function is low. This does not mean that you have damaged adrenals (as with 's) but your adrenal function is probably below par due to excessive stress in the past. The way to start treatment is to take all the supplements you already take, but instead of hitting them with HC (which IMHO would be a big mistake at this stage) you start taking NAX (see above). You start with one tablet with your breakfast for 7 or 8 days minimum; 2 weeks is better. You also take high doses of Vit C, drink your liquorice tea and if possible take a high Co-Q10 supplement (at least 100 mg, better 200 mg) and all other supplements you might need in addition. You need to take the Iron and you can use up the B-complex/iron supplement, but when that's finished it would be better to take an iron supplement without B complex, because all the B-vitamins are already in the NAX. The usual advice that Dr. Peatfield (one of our medical advisors) gives is to "condition" the adrenal glands with NAX, Vit C, Co-Q10, liquorice etc for 7-8 days before starting with desiccated thyroid.

On day 8 or 9 you would usually start with ½ grain NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) for the first week to 4 weeks (depending on how your body reacts to it). I am not quite sure how this translates to Cinetic, but judging by the below, I would suggest you start either with half a tablet or with one tablet. Since you have already taken T4 in the past, you can probably advance to 1 tablet pretty quickly (after one week?) – or – if you feel brave, start with 1 tablet a day. See how it goes... if you feel dizzy, sweaty or just `odd', cut back to ½ tablet and stay on that dosage until you feel you can advance. Below is the info I have on Cinetic... http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands/

Cinetic: ….Active ingredients: 75 mg dried thyroid (equal to 25.5 mcg T4 and 7.5 mcg T3); organic iodine 0.150 mg in thyroid combination)

Tablets are coated. 75 mg with 50 tablets in blister pack. Package insert recommends 1-2 tablets, 3 times a day (though that may end up being different according to your needs). They also recommend to swallow pills with water, without chewing and without dissolving. To be stored not above 77F/25C

The reason I would advise against taking HC straight away is because it really is a last resort. First try the natural way with NAX. You can take up to 6 tablets/day if necessary, (add another one every 2 weeks) split between breakfast and lunch (never to be taken after 1 pm or it might interfere with your sleep at night). If 6 tablets and all the other supplements still are not enough to stop adrenal fatigue, then you may want to go onto HC and start with 2x5 mg HC per day…. But give the natural treatment a fair chance first. HC is not necessarily the answer to all your prayers. Even physiological dosages have their problems in the long run. Trust me – if you do not absolutely need HC, don't go down that road. It would be ill-advised. Try everything else first, it usually works.

If you haven't read Dr. Peatfield's book called "Your thyroid and how to keep it healthy" yet, please order it and read it from cover to cover…. It is excellent. There is no-one better than him explaining the thyroid and adrenal function.

You seem to have most of it all covered…. so – Good Luck J …. Just remember – treat the adrenals first and foremost before you treat the thyroid gland for 1-2 weeks. If you do not adhere to that golden rule, you are setting yourself up for problems….

a) Take your Cinetic at least 1 hour before breakfast on an empty stomach. Up the dosage no faster than every 4 -5 weeks. Rushing it would be a huge mistake ! The body needs to get used to the hormone slowly.

Take NAX with your breakfast and later with breakfast and with lunch

c) Take any iron supplement at least 4 hours away from Cinetic (lunch time might be good)

d) Take other supplements as directed – rule of thumb… anything that is promoting cell renewal is best taken at night (B12, Vit E, Vit D3, etc)

e) Magnesium I would split dose between breakfast and dinner, and Vit C take throughout the day….up to bowel tolerance. Take some C with iron, as this helps against constipation.

Any questions – just yell and somebody will be there to help….

With very best wishes,

[Guest guest]

HI ,

I replied to this, but haven't seen it appear here. Did you not receive it?

I'm presuming not, as it hasn't appeared. I'll try and dig it out and repost, if

I can find it.

best wishes

>

> Hello and welcome J

>

> Same old story, isn't it?.... no better endos in Europe than here in

> the UK L We are all fighting the same windmills, it seems.....

>

> Ok – so let's get down to the nitty-gritty.....

>

************************************

Miliions of old messages deleted by moderator...... Please try and trim youor

messages, leaving just a few lines of the one you are replying to... otherwise

we sometimes send them back to you and they don't get posted!!!!!!

*************************

[Guest guest]

> HI ,> I replied to this, but haven't seen it appear here. Did you not receive it? I'm presuming not, as it hasn't appeared. I'll try and dig it out and repost, if I can find it.> best wishes>

Hi - nope, nothing has arrived Hope you can re-post.....

best wishes,

[Guest guest]

MODERATED TO REMOVE ALL OF PREVIOUS MESSAGE ALREADY READ. PLEASE ENSURE YOU HAVE

DONE THIS BEFORE CLICKING 'SEND' AND LEAVE JUST A PORTION OF WHAT YOU ARE

RESPONDING TO. LUV - SHEILA

_______________________________________________________________

Hello ,

so sorry, I can't find the post I sent in reply to this - my computer battery

ran out and it switched off as I pressed " send " , and it's not anywhere to be

found.

The gist was that I had already just started the HC on Saturday morning as I

felt so terrible on Friday, with a temperature of 37.3 dropping to 36 later

afternoon, palpitations and a really tight chest. I really felt I was on the

verge of something terrible like a stroke or heart attack and as I have a

history of both in my family, I just went for the first solution I could find.

I have to say that I immediately felt a difference. I think that at that point,

I probably needed the HC - I saw some pictures online of women who have suffered

myxedema, and that's exactly me - the flattened nose, swollen eye area, puffy

face, horrible hair, flat chest etc.

However, I have ordered the NAX and all the supplements (B12, selenium with vit

E, and Co-Q10), and am continuing the ones I already had. Do you think it's

okay to go on with the HC for a while till I get onto the NDT, then slowly wean

off it and replace with NAX? A friend of mine who used NAX said it didn't work

for her and she had to go back to the endo and get HC in the end. Would I

continue using the NAX indefinitely with the NDT? And should I wait till my

temperatures are stable before starting the NDT or just start on day 8 or 9 of

HC??

My son, who lives in London, is also having problems and I believe they are to

do with his thyroid too - anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia, etc. He went to

the doctor, who wanted to put him on antidepressants, but I told him not to take

them and to get his thyroid tested and to have the cortisol saliva test too

before he does anything else. His TSH was 0.74, but his free T4 was 14.7

(9-26), sodium 137 (135-145), potassium 4.3 (3.5-5.3. He has Gilbert's syndrome

too. He hasn't done the saliva test yet. What do you think?

Also, can someone please tell me if Nature-throid is available within the UK or

Europe without a prescription? - someone suggested a site to buy it from, but it

comes from somewhere in the East I think, and I'm sure I would have to pay taxes

on it. I know Erfa can be bought from Belgium or the UK, but I don't have a

doctor's prescription for it - anyone know where I can get any of these without

a prescription within Europe? I'm not too happy about the Cinetic, as it also

contains a colourant apart from the other stuff in it, so if I can get one of

the others, it may be better? Has anyone had any problems on the NDT compared

to Levothyroxine?

Thank you and best wishes

>

>

> So now I have finally decided that I'm going to self treat - I see no

> other

> options. I already have the hydrocortisone and natural dessicated

> thyroid

> hormone. I'm sick of all the tests and spending a fortune without seeing

> any results. This is my body, I know what I'm feeling and I'm tired of

> being told what they think I should be feeling or taking. For all those

> years they never believed I was hypo because I was thin and not fat.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

Sorry you had to type it all out again....

The gist was that I had already just started the HC on Saturday morning as I felt so terrible on Friday, with a temperature of 37.3 dropping to 36 laterafternoon, palpitations and a really tight chest. I really felt I was on theverge of something terrible like a stroke or heart attack and as I have ahistory of both in my family, I just went for the first solution I could find. I have to say that I immediately felt a difference.

Yes, that does not surprise me J - steroids are incredibly powerful drugs and they work almost instantly. But they can be both – a godsend as well as a curse.... they can save lives, but there is plenty of downside.

Taking steroids is all about dosages... up to (roughly) 30 mg of HC (or the equivalent of 7.5 mg Prednisolone) per day is a safe "physiological" dosage according to Dr. Peatfield. Please note the `up to'.... it is always better to start with 10 mg HC (or 2.5 mg Prednisolone) and to only go higher if really needed.

Anything above 30 mg HC (or the equivalent Preds) ventures into "therapeutic" dosages... and this is where things can get complicated. Whilst on a physiological dosage the adrenals only "rest" a little, on a therapeutic dose the adrenals will begin to shut down their own production. So the more you supplement, the less the adrenals will produce themselves.... and you can find yourself in a downward spiral from which to escape can prove very difficult.

Dr. Peatfield points out in his book "Your thyroid and how to keep it healthy" that adrenal suppression caused by HC is to be expected and that the adrenals will resume normal function as far as they are able when supplementation is discontinued.... and he's put `as far as they are able' in italics for a good reason; because often they are not able to come back to normal and the patient (having started HC) may then need HC replacement for a very long time.

And herein lies the danger. It is extremely easy to exceed physiological dosages of HC on the subjective feeling that 10, 20 or even 30 mg of HC is "not enough" assuming we "need more". Everybody who has taken HC for a long time will know what I mean. The body gets used to this daily input of cortisol and the adrenals get used to producing less. The more we supplement, the less the adrenals will produce..... and exceeding the safe physiological dose has consequences in form of horrible side effects – weight gain, loss of muscle tissue, mood swings, water retention, excessive hunger, skin thinning, lowered immunity... the list is very long. It can take months and months when you eventually try to wean yourself off the HC.

Don't get me wrong – many hypothyroid patients are also hypo-adrenal... but for most taking adrenal support in form of NAX and other adrenal supplements will get the adrenals back to health and their former output safely and without the use of steroids. For some, however, steroids are a necessity, and those who need them should take them. But nobody should take steroids without fully being informed about the dangers; it is always better to start reconditioning the adrenals with supplements, vitamins and minerals before using the cavalry.

I probably needed the HC - I saw some pictures online of women who have suffered myxedema, and that's exactly me - the flattened nose, swollen eye area, puffy face, horrible hair, flat chest etc.You may have myxedema, but myxedema is due to low thyroid hormone in the cells. It is true that you need cortisol for getting the hormone into the cells, but when you are hypothyroid your thyroid gland is (for whatever reason) not producing enough thyroid hormone. Unless you know if your adrenals are actually damaged or "just" exhausted, you won't know if you really need HC supplementation; nutritional adrenal support may be enough to support the adrenal output sufficiently. If after a few months you find it's not enough, then perhaps you need HC.

However, I have ordered the NAX and all the supplements (B12, selenium with vit E, and Co-Q10), and am continuing the ones I already had. Do you think it's okay to go on with the HC for a while till I get onto the NDT, then slowly wean off it and replace with NAX?

You don't have to wait - you could start NAX and take it simultaneously with HC and gradually reduce the HC as you go up with the NAX (you could add 1 NAX every 2 weeks). You have not said how much HC you are taking, but people usually start with 10 mg HC, divided into 2 doses. Personally I would not advice to go above 20 mg HC if at all possible. It is better to up the NAX instead, which you can gradually up to 6 tablets/day (2x3, with breakfast and lunch).

A friend of mine who used NAX said it didn't workfor her and she had to go back to the endo and get HC in the end. Would Icontinue using the NAX indefinitely with the NDT?

If her endo prescribed HC, then your friend most likely has severe adrenal insufficiency or 's disease, which is very different from having "just" exhausted adrenals; the former is an autoimmune disease where the adrenal glands get destroyed by the body's immune system. Exhausted adrenals are just that – exhausted. They are basically in working order, but because of excessive stress in the past no longer able to produce sufficient cortisol for the body to get through a normal working day. Damaged adrenals will need HC for life. Exhausted adrenals may need months or even years of TLC in form of vitamins, minerals and adrenal support like NAX, but they should recover in time. Damaged adrenals will never recover.... that is the difference.

NAX – indefinitely, no; but it can take many months to many years. In my own case Dr. P. told me I may need some adrenal support for a few months.... I am now in year 4 and still can't do without. There is no knowing beforehand. It depends on your body's ability to heal itself.

And should I wait till my temperatures are stable before starting the NDT or just start on day 8 or 9 of HC??That could be a long wait J.... no, you can start with ½ grain of your chosen NDT after you have supported your adrenals for about 1-2 weeks (depending on how bad your adrenal exhaustion is). For your temps to stabilize you need a mix of adrenal support and thyroid hormone.

Also, can someone please tell me if Nature-throid is available within the UK or Europe without a prescription? - someone suggested a site to buy it from, but it comes from somewhere in the East I think, and I'm sure I would have to pay taxes on it. I know Erfa can be bought from Belgium or the UK, but I don't have a doctor's prescription for it - anyone know where I can get any of these without a prescription within Europe?

We in the UK can buy NDT (natural desiccated thyroid) legally and without a prescription from the US, Canada or Thailand. If the order exceeds a value of £ 18, we are liable to pay VAT & a Royal Mail handling charge before the order gets delivered. Sometimes the order slips through the customs net ... so you can be lucky. I do not know about buying Erfa from Belgium (although I know it is manufactured there as well as Canada). You cannot buy any NDT in the UK, but an NHS doctor or private doctor is allowed to prescribe it (very few do though) and a pharmacy would get it for you. To the best of my knowledge you can only buy NDT without a script online from the US, Canada or Thailand.

Has anyone had any problems on the NDT compared to Levothyroxine?

Everybody is different. Most people do very well on NDT, but not all; it's trial and error.

My son, who lives in London, is also having problems and I believe they are to do with his thyroid too - anxiety, panic attacks, insomnia, etc. He went to the doctor, who wanted to put him on antidepressants, but I told him not to take them and to get his thyroid tested and to have the cortisol saliva test too before he does anything else. His TSH was 0.74, but his free T4 was 14.7 (9-26), sodium 137 (135-145), potassium 4.3 (3.5-5.3. He has Gilbert's syndrome too. He hasn't done the saliva test yet. What do you think?It is possible that your son suffers from a thyroid condition too since you are hypothyroid and this condition tends to run in families, but it is impossible to draw any meaningful conclusions from those listed symptoms and blood results alone without knowing his history, full clinical symptoms and having a full thyroid panel and antibody test result and he would need to monitor his basal temperature for 5 days and a salivary adrenal profile would also be useful.

His electrolytes look normal, although his sodium is a bit on the low side. He might benefit from using a little more sea salt in his diet to bring up the sodium level.

With best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hello ,

thank you for your detailed reply. I'm awaiting my NAX order which they say has

been dispatched and will do as you suggest as I definitely don't want to stay on

HC - I know that it's hard to get off it, so don't want to become dependent on

it.

As for my son, his doctor is refusing to do a full thyroid panel (it's the usual

story of " it can't be your thyroid) so we're going to go the private route. Any

suggestions on private labs in central London where they also draw the blood

themselves please? - obviously his doctor is not going to want to draw blood for

him, so we need somewhere that does it themselves. He's going to do the

salivary test with Genova Diagnostics, unless we find a lab that's not

ridiculously expensive which offers both tests and will also start monitoring

his basal temps - if they are fine (what level rules out thyroid?), is it not

worth doing the thyroid tests?

He had his tonsils out some years back and soon after, began suffering anxiety,

panic attacks, sleeplessness, fatigue, general nervousness and he's put on

unexplained weight. Before that, he was a healthy young man, very sporty and

with a nice trim figure and he always slept well (too well!).

Thanks again for the help.

>

>

> You don't have to wait - you could start NAX and take it

> simultaneously with HC and gradually reduce the HC as you go up

>

>

[Guest guest]

Sorry, the page for the phlebotomy service did not display correctly.... here it is again....

http://www.iwdl.net/index.php option=com_content & task=view & id=69 & Itemid=107

If this does not open on the page I meant, please hover the curser over "patients" (left hand side) and then click on "phlebotomy service".

[Guest guest]

Thank you Sheila, will do so! I'm wondering if my tonsillectomy was also the

cause of all my thyroid troubles too! I only had mine removed when I was 18,

which is pretty late.

Oh well, too late now... just have to get on with it!

>

> Go to our FILES section which you can access from the Home Page of this

> forum http://health./grouop/thyroid treatment and

> scroll down to 'Discounts on Tests and Supplements'. Open the File 'Genova

> Diagnostics' and you should be able to get the tests your son needs from

> there. You need to quote that 'Thyroid patient Advocacy' is your

> practitioner, but don't worry about that, the results will be sent direct to

> you and not to me. You use this to claim the discount. He needs a

> temperature above 97.8 - but a low temperature might show that he is

> suffering with low adrenal reserve, which will have to be treated if this is

> the case. In such a case, in the same FOLDER, click on the FILE 'Nutri Ltd'

> where you can claim 33% discount on the required supplements by quoting the

> TPA reference number. Tonsillectomy can be a cause of damage to the thyroid

> gland.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

> He had his tonsils out some years back and soon after, began suffering

> anxiety, panic attacks, sleeplessness, fatigue, general nervousness and he's

> put on unexplained weight. Before that, he was a healthy young man, very

> sporty and with a nice trim figure and he always slept well (too well!).

>

[Guest guest]

Hello , thank you so much for all the information. I have written to

Genova Diagnostics at the email address you supplied and hope to have the kits

sent to my son as soon as they send me the information on how to pay them. They

do have a phlebotomy charge, but that's ok, as long as we can get this done.

Does Dr. Skinner happen to have a clinic within easier reach of central London

than Dr. Peatfield's? I looked online but can't find a list of his clinics.

And finally, there is an article in your files which says that thyroid hormone

is absorbed better if taken last thing at night - has anyone here tried that and

found it better?

thanks again for all the help

>

>

> Hello ,

>

> > As for my son, his doctor is refusing to do a full thyroid panel. Any

> suggestions on private labs in central London where they also draw the

> blood themselves please.

>

> Genova London has a phlebotomy service by appointment.

> http://www.iwdl.net/index.phpoption=com_content & task=view & id=69 & Itemid=1\

> 07

> <http://www.iwdl.net/index.phpoption=com_content & task=view & id=69 & Itemid=\

> 107>

>

> Not sure if they charge for it, but probably not. But please tell him to

> remember to state the TPA-UK as his practitioner, or he won't be

> offered the discount.

[Guest guest]

Another test and possibly the final one for here is expose your belly. Get someone whom you know for sure is healthy and fit and has not got AF. Get them to copy everything you do. Get a sharp but blunt item, so you don't cut yourself but you need to scratch your belly, just below your bellybutton. Scratch a line across from one side to the other. A tooth pick would do it or the prong on a fork.

Watch the result and compare to your friend; but if you're doing it alone - if your scratch mark which should initially be white changes to pink quite quickly within 1-2 mins then its likely you donot have AF; but if the scratch mark remains white for more than 1-2 minutes its likely you have AF.

....and there was I, thinking I knew them all.... Good one, Sally, thanks J I had not heard of this one before. Just tested myself.... twice .... it turned pink in under 2 minutes – just! ... 1 min, 57 seconds, on both occasions, give or take a second (and that in year 4 on adrenal support <sigh>). Thought I'd do better by now.....

I've got another one to add to your collection J

Stand to attention, feet parallel, eyes shut, both arms hanging at your sides. Then put one foot in front of the other – heel to toe – with your eyes firmly shut.

If you can do that without wobbling, then your adrenals should be ok..... I nearly toppled Dr. Peatfield's filing cabinet in an attempt not to fall over..... still can't do that one without wobbling; pupils are still zooming in and out a bit and BP is still dropping from sitting to standing.... Tough nuts to crack, them adrenals ... <g>

Love,

[Guest guest]

>> Hi , this is in the Home Testing for Adrenals in the Adrenal Folder> in the Files section. It is called 'Sergeants Line' or something similar if> I remember off the top of my head. Perhaps you need to go there again and> check out all the 'Home Tests'.

Yep, thanks Sheila, just checked .... - good old Emile Sergent !! He got it right in 1917... why can't those endoprats get it right nearly 100 years later ????

It's a good test that, and, if my tummy is anything to go by, it obviously works as well now as it did back in the last century.....

Love,

xx

[Guest guest]

Hello Sally, thank you so much for posting all that information. I have started

one grain of NDT today (the Cinetic, which states that one grain is equivalent

to 25mcg levothyroxine) and will follow what suggested on when to up

the dosage. One thing I'm not happy about is that Cinetic does not state where

it sources are, and the fact that they colour their pills with Indigo (is all

NDT porcine or can it be bovine too?). I have written to them to ask what their

source is, and pointed out that hypothyroid people have enough on their plates

without having to cope with useless colourants too, and they haven't bothered to

answer! (that is typical Italy!). I also noticed that NAX is bovine sourced -

I'm a little worried now as I have an intolerance towards bovine products and

even cow's milk and dairy. Is there another good adrenal support supplement

which isnt't bovine?

I have been taking as much vit C as I can, and have found my optimum dosage

today.

Last night for the first time in ages I didn't have a tight chest and didn't

wake up with it this morning - the only thing I did differently was to add a

progesterone cream (I had stopped this some time back), so wondered if that had

made the difference. I read the article by Dr. Peat on the thyroid and

progesterone today and found it extremely interesting.

http://www.thyroid-info.com/articles/ray-peat.htm

I was more energetic than usual this morning. However, this afternoon at around

5 or 6ish, I felt super tired again. My average daily temperatures have been

between 36.8 to 37 in the last few days, (which is good ??) and pulse rate

around 77/78 (not good??).

I'll pass on the supplement programme to my son as soon as you post it, thank

you! and I'll let you know as soon as he gets his test results - from what you

say, I'll tell him to do just the full thyroid screen for now and see what

happens there first before deciding on whether to do the adrenal one, which, as

you say, may not be absolutely necessary. This is is all costing us a small

fortune as well - I don't know how much I've spent on tests, various

specialists, and medicines over the years (without a diagnosis!), and presume

many of you must be in the same position! :-(

Thank you for all the help.

best wishes

> There are others such as B5, B6, B3 and B9 (folic acid), magnesium, phosphorus

> and multi-mineral, EFA particularly omega 3 (for now) NAX or similar 

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Yes, the Dr. 's powder sounds good as it has lots of things in it,

including ashwaganda - will just have to work out what vitamins I'm already

taking and work round that. I've found it online in the UK for £38 for 300g.

Perhaps I'll try it - I've spent so much already, a little more isn't going to

matter if it works! Pity I hadn't realised about the NAX being bovine before I

ordered it! (still hasn't arrived here.

thanks again!

> I used to take for a while Dr. wilson's adrenal dynamite powder, which I

> found excellent.... it worked - for me - probably better than NAX.

> Please see below the ingredients... it contains porcine glandulars

> rather than bovine.

> > http://www.nutricology.com/Dr.--s-Dynamite-Adrenal-300-grams-10.6-\

> oz.-p-16666.html

> <http://www.nutricology.com/Dr.--s-Dynamite-Adrenal-300-grams-10.6\

> -oz.-p-16666.html>>

> I switched eventually back to NAX for ease of use and price.... this

> powder is terribly expensive in the long run.>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've already ordered the total thyroid screen test, so will wait for that one

first and then see whether to proceed to the other one and perhaps adrenal

saliva, if necessary. I'll suggest he starts on adrenal support in the meantime

- perhaps I'll give him my NAX too as I shan't be using it.

Thanks again for your support!

>

>   Personally I would do the Genova 24 hr Urine test for thyroid function as

well

> as the blood test...the urine test shows what the thyroid is producing and

what

> the body has used...this is much more reliable than blood test since is

relates

> to what has actually happened not what might happen.

> If his temp is normal or very near normal then that rules it out really. 

> Oh golly tonsilectomy has a good record of thyroid damage.....but I would

> definately get him on adrenal support anyhow...this may help him enormously

and

> even allow the body to use his own thyroid hormone better. Sally xx

[Guest guest]

That's a new one for me, thought I'd seen them all in your files and online! -

will try it later! :-)

Thanks

>

> I've got another one to add to your collection J>

> Stand to attention, feet parallel, eyes shut, both arms hanging at your>

sides. Then put one foot in front of the other – heel to toe –

> with your eyes firmly shut.>

> If you can do that without wobbling, then your adrenals should be

> ok..... I nearly toppled Dr. Peatfield's filing cabinet in an

> attempt not to fall over..... still can't do that one without

> wobbling; pupils are still zooming in and out a bit and BP is still

> dropping from sitting to standing.... Tough nuts to crack, them adrenals

> ... <g>>

> Love,>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi /Sally,

I'll let you know if I can get some answers from Teofarma about Cinetic. They

still haven't replied to my email, so tomorrow I'll try calling them for an

answer. If I don't get satisfaction, I shall ask my pharmacist to demand some

information from them. Isn't that ridiculous? There is absolutely no mention

of the source in the product leaflet inside the box either. As I said, I'm not

happy with the indigo dye in the product, so want to try and move to Erfa as

that is available from Belgium (but they asked for a prescription!). I shall

ask if my Eutirox prescription is proof enough that I need the hormones as my

doctor won't prescribe their product, and see what they say. This is all very

infuriating. These are our bodies being abused by the medical profession and we

aren't allowed to take our health into our own hands....!

best wishes

> Usually all NDT's that we recommend are of porcine origin, but I

> just had a look at Cinetic and Teofarm don't seem to reveal their

> sources... it just says " dried thyroid " ... so could be either or

> even a mix, I would not know....>

> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands/

> <http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/armour-vs-other-brands/>

> All of the NDT's from the US, Canada or Thailand use porcine USP

> powder.

> > Best wishes>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Wow, I look at the adrenal questionnaire and scored top marks in nearly

everything - including having hyperpigmentation not only round the elbows and

all my scars, but also hyper patches on my cheeks, which I have been battling to

get rid of for ages now. The good news is that they're already visibly fading!!

I can't believe it! And my skin, which was always reddened round the nose/cheek

area, with pustules, is clearing up. I can actually look at myself in the

mirror again in the morning without feeling totally depressed about the way I

look (you can imagine, the rosacea coupled with red, inflamed and swollen eyes,

no eyebrows to speak of, the swelling around the nose and eyebrow areas....).

I've been treated for rosacea for many, many years and can't tell you how many

times I've taken antibiotics and Flagyl and used metronidazole creams on my

skin, thanks to inefficient dermatologists who have ruined my skin with their

stupid creams and my body with their poisonous medicines!! why aren't doctors

trained to recognise symptoms of low adrenals and thyroid??!!). I'm so furious

with all the doctors I've seen - and believe me, I've seen every type, including

gynaecologists (infertility, no sex drive at all, and totally dry mucous

membranes everywhere), dermatologists (rosacea, dry, cracked skin, dark scarring

from the tiniest scratch), eye specialists (constantly red, inflamed and swollen

eyes,waking up with crusty eyes!),rheumatologists, endocrinologists etc etc.

I've suffered so many symptoms of low thyroid and adrenals for so long and not

one of them thought of it. I even stopped swimming because I got dizzy in the

water and was afraid of something happening to me (apart from feeling far too

tired to even try). Yesterday I had my first swim in the sea in ages without

being dizzy - I live on the sea, 5 min walk down to the water so am usually one

of the first in there when spring comes, but this year I hadn't been yet!). And

the constant lightheadedness and unexplained ache round my neck and shoulders

which has plagued me for years is going.

I know it's a long way yet, and that I may take some steps backwards at times,

but I'm happy to have made a good start to getting this resolved! Now that I

actually know what it is, at least I can try taking steps to remediate whenever

I'm going wrong (with a little help and support from all of you here!).

Thank you again.

>

> He could do the adrenal questionnaire in our FILES SECTION and the

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

sorry, you misunderstood :-) I wasn't looking for a bovine source as that's

what I'm allergic to (not allergic, intolerant). I wanted a porcine source. I

was trying to find out if the one I'm using, Cinetic, the Italian version of

Armour, is bovine or porcine as I would hate it to turn out to be bovine and

here I am happily taking it! I wouldn't want to cause myself other problems

down the line :-(

thanks for looking for those and so sorry you wasted your time!

>

> We at TPA always recommend the natural desiccated porcine thyroid extract but

there really does appear to be no reason why bovine thyroid extract cannot be

used just as safely and effectively for those who have an allergy to pork

products - so long as the desiccated thyroid comes from New Zealand.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Sally,

funnily enough, yeast was one problem I never had, though I fully expected it

over the years. I always took probiotics and a few other supplements when I

took antibiotics, and I also massaged myself with an anti-fungal essential oil

mix so perhaps those things helped. At least I got away with one thing! :-)

>

> alicia what good news.....such a great story.  Well done.

>

> can I just check that you have sorted out any yeast problems you may have with

> all those antibiotics?

>> Sally xx

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila, no, that wasn't me - I definitely wanted porcine, perhaps it was

someone else here?

Perhaps the right person will see this and turn up!

>> Hi , I thought you had sent a message (was it you????)asking for

> companies that actually manufactured bovine thyroid extract and to let

> have it - or am I dreaming. Somebody did when we were talking

> about bovine v porcine extract.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila, I'm definitely going to ask for these tests. My doctor

unfortunately does not speak English, or else I would have made her read the

article you mentioned!

> Get him to check out your ferritin, B12, D3, magnesium, folate copper and

> zinc levels to see whether any of these are low in the range.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>