Re: GP says to 'wash out' Armour before doing blood tests

[Guest guest]

Hi jackie

That's a tricky one. I too suffer from CFS according to the doctors though I

feel sure there are other issues going on (see my post from last night on 'I'm

new, borderline hypothyroid). Since you are feeling a little better I can

understand why you don't want to go backwards for the next 6 weeks.

What I couldn't quite understand from your post is how you got to start on

armour already? What was the justification? Have you already had a round of

thyroid function tests? I ask because I have just had the standard work up for

thyroid (but not antibodies yet) and my TSH was 5.6 - so quite a lot higher but

my GP flatly refused to give me any medication. Just said its very borderline

and I have to wait 3 months for a repeat test then.....who knows. Like you, I'm

desperate to get better having lived with CFS of fluctuating severity for around

5 years now. I feel my thyroid is failing badly and until it's under control

I'll never make progress towards a normal life. I also have fertility issues and

all sorts which I think are due to being hypo.

It seems like your doc is quite open minded to treating hypo, if you do have the

wash out then bloods do you think there is any risk of them not allowing you to

start back on iit again?

Take care and let me know a bit about your history. How long have you had CFS?

x

>

> Hi - can anyone advise please?

>

> My GP who insists I have CFS though admitted my thyroid is failing, has

offered to do a few blood tests but says I need to get off the Armour I've been

on for three weeks

**************rest of old message deleted by moderator... Please trim your posts

leaving just a few lines of the messafge you are replying

to***********************

[Guest guest]

As you have only been on the Armour for 3 weeks I would say it was well worth

stopping it altogether for 6 weeks to get some clear baseline readings. You

don't say how much you have been taking, so you might need to wean off it

gradually and then have 6 clear weeks.

It sounds like the GP isn't against Armour per se, which is great, and has

agreed to do most of the blood tests you want. So I would say it is worth doing

this small thing to keep them happy.

It will strengthen your argument if later you want to insist that you never had

CFS, but it was a thyroid problem all along. (Strictly speaking, CFS is a

diagnosis of exclusion, so if the GP agrees you have a thyroid problem you

cannot have CFS, by definition).

Miriam

> My GP who insists I have CFS though admitted my thyroid is failing, has

offered to do a few blood tests but says I need to get off the Armour I've been

on for three weeks and wash out for six weeks before he'll do the Free T4,Free

T3 and Reverse T3, which I've requested amongst others.

[Guest guest]

Hi - Sorry I wasn't very clear in my post - the GP thinks I

have CFS (he's just focusing on the fatigue) but I disagreed because I've had all the hypothyroid symptoms for such a long time and want that diagnosis so he will support me with the regular blood testing. But as my TSH is only 2.90 he wont prescribe for me so I've gone down the private route to get Armour. I can't ever see him prescribing anything other than synthetics.

However, since posting this query, my GP has agreed to do further tests including antibodies which I really hope help with the diagnosis and then I won't have to come off the Armour.  Not sure at this point though, how much of it is lip service, only time will tell, including the results too!

, I too had 'unexplained' fertility issues (as well as many other symptoms) and so I feel for you but with your TSH as high as 5.6 you really ought to be changing GPs or writing him a letter from the Files section as that's just neglect and scandalous!  What I would say is avoid producing a baby until you're much better as the strain would take its toll on you.

Thanks for your input and don't give up !!! I miscarried four times over three years before finally producing

Jackie xOn Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 11:32 PM, sleepysheepy@... <sleepysheepy@...> wrote:

 

Hi jackie

That's a tricky one. I too suffer from CFS according to the doctors though I feel sure there are other issues going on (see my post from last night on 'I'm new, borderline hypothyroid)

[Guest guest]

Thanks for your brilliantly good advice Miriam and I'm sorry I was unclear in my posting.  Its not my GP who's given me the Armour (I got that privately and started on half grain a day and now up to one).

I think he's just playing safe and sticking to the guidelines re TSH ranges and therefore unable to prescribe based on that.  I'm hoping the antibodies result will prove my case though !  For some reason it wasn't

done with my recent thyroid blood testing batch, despite being requested.

Thanks again.  Jackie x<miriam_hinch@...> wrote:

 

As you have only been on the Armour for 3 weeks I would say it was well worth stopping it altogether for 6 weeks to get some clear baseline readings

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

Hmmmm, really a tricky one....

On the surface your GP's offer sounds very reasonable and genuine.... or is it?? What will happen when your TFT after 6 weeks off Armour will come back with TSH, FT4 and FT3 in range.... ANYWHERE in range ? Will he take that as "proof" that you are not hypothyroid? – or will he accept that no-one can rule out hypothyroidism on the strength of a "normal" TSH ? Will he accept that a positive count of autoantibodies is diagnostic of Hashimoto's disease, regardless of TFT results and warrants treatment? Will he accept that it can take years of suffering clinical signs and symptoms before the TFT figures fall into the red and that it would be beneficial for the patient to start treatment as early as possible and that hypothyroidism can be (and should be) diagnosed on the strength of clinical signs and symptoms?

To my mind it would be important to clear those questions with him before agreeing to stop the Armour. Fact is that you have improved since taking Armour. If you were NOT hypothyroid, how come that by now (3 weeks into taking thyroid replacement) you are not showing any hyPERthyroid symptoms? If he tells you that all those are questions he will have to discuss with an endo and clinical pathologist, then ask him to do that before you agree to stop the treatment. Likelihood is that endo and pathologist will not accept the above points and consequently your GP might not.... and then you might find yourself in a situation where you have agreed to stop the Armour and you will be told .... there, told ya – you've just got CFS.....

There is, of course, a chance that in 6 weeks off Armour your TFT's might have fallen into the red anyway – if you had Hashimoto's, the TSH is notorious to fluctuate from high to low, regardless. This is how Hashimoto's is only too often missed, because the TSH can be "normal". But it's a gamble; so to my mind it would be safer to first clear up with your GP where he stands on all this. Is he his own man, or will he pay lip service to endo and clinical pathologist? There are very, very few endos who will go against the guidelines of the RCP (Royal College of Physicians) and the BTA (British Thyroid Association)... and their view points are clear - no elevated TSH, no diagnosis.... and whilst positive autoantibodies are in their considered opinion indicative, they are not diagnostic, for future thyroid disease L.

If it were me, I would want to know where the GP stands with all this before agreeing to stop the Armour.... he should not make the offered other blood tests conditional on you stopping the Armour – a good doctor, who truly wants to help his patient, would order those tests regardless and without trying to force a patient into submission, IMHO ...

With best wishes,

[Guest guest]

I agree with here Jackie.

I would not give up my Armour if its making me imrpove. In fact I would take more until I felt well....and then go back to GP and say, IF I'm not hypothyroid how come I can tolerate this amount with the effect of feeling hyper? ....why would you want to keep me ill? If i agree to take full responsiblity in writing why would you deny me the treatment that is cheap available and effective and has more than 100year proven record.....that the diagnosis of CFS is rubbish you are hypothyroid and he should accept that and treat you accordingly.

Take as much written evidence as is possible.....refer to America where they have lowered the TSH levels for diagnosis of hyperthyroid unlike UK...Professor Toft agrees treatment soon rather than later avoids some of the serious non reversible effects of hypothyroid. That you doc should want to deny you the ability to function well and enjoy life to the best of your ability is disgusting.....I would think about leaving to be honest...can you shop around?

Sally xx

Hi Jackie,

Hmmmm, really a tricky one....

On the surface your GP's offer sounds very reasonable and genuine.... or is it?? What will happen when your TFT after 6 weeks off Armour will come back with TSH, FT4 and FT3 in range.... ANYWHERE in range ? Will he take that as "proof" that you are not hypothyroid? – or will he accept that no-one can rule out hypothyroidism on the strength of a "normal" TSH ? Will he accept that a positive count of autoantibodies is diagnostic of Hashimoto's disease,

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

When I stopped taking Levothyroxine - it took 4 months for my TSH to rise again

(it finally went up to 7), so all the tests I had done during those 4 months

were 'normal'.

I think the antibody test will be the most useful test. As you TSH was 2.9

beforehand I'm not sure what you can hope to achieve by coming off the Armour

and getting it tested. The likelihood is that it will still come back in range

once you are off the Armour and your GP will use that as proof that you don't

have a problem.

[Guest guest]

Hi - To be fair to him, my GP has offered to do these interim tests whilst I'm still on Armour and then do the Free T4,Free T3 and Reverse T3 after a six-week clear out which I haven't agreed to, but I do

take your point that he may not accept the antibody result in the meantime!  Hadn't thought of that !!!  I think I know in my heart that he's just going through the motions of seeming to be helpful and paying me lip service and in the end he won't be 'on our side' as it were, but I

try to stay optimistic.  A miracle could happen

It's interesting that he's offered to exchange e-mails with me after the rather heated hour-long debate we had last week in his office.  I'm far from being a confrontational person but I did stand my ground and was proud of myself for doing so, I was so determined to get my points across and that he would listen.  But all he would talk about was proof and clinical trials, placebos and science !!!  Mind you it took its toll on me (as I didn't get to the conference) and I don't think he wants a repeat of the

argument in person himself either anytime soon!

By the way can anyone tell me the range of the two sets of antibodies and what levels constitute as indicative of hypo please?

But you're so thought-provoking on your many points too , which

is why I love this forum!!!  It helps bring you back to basics, to what's important.  Drs can get you so sidetracked, that you forget about the basics. - yes, you're so right about diagnosing on symptoms and not on blood work !!!  I guess i got caught up in it all and ended up compromising

On re-reading the latter part of your post I've come to the decision that I don't want to waste the three weeks I've had, suffer another six weeks without my Armour, all for what?  Just in the same way I wouldn't go back and suffer for a month of eating gluten just so they could do their tests (which are far from 100% accurate anyway).  I know my own body, I know gluten makes me (and my family) very ill and I also know I already feel a little improved with the Armour thus far, though I know I

have a way to go building up the dosage.

So thank you all so much for your comments, thoughts and inspiration!!!

Jackie x

On Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 12:16 PM, <christina@...> wrote:

 

 Hi Jackie,

Hmmmm, really a tricky one....

On the surface your GP's offer sounds very reasonable and genuine.... or is it??

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie I have not 'consented ' to any blood tests for 3 years -[when on T3

only it would be a waste of time] .Dr P has given me a good indication of what

they would be and that is enough for me. To ask you to stop medication which is

helping you is ridiculous and where in this is medical ethics ? If your

symptoms improve your GP should be pleased not asking you to do this.Best wishes

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie et al.

I think that you are right to not back off the Armour now as it sounds risky.

Staying on it and proving you are getting maybe better proof for your GP in the

long run.

I don't think I've truly had CFS for all these past 5 years. It started after

glandular fever which was so severe I now believe it could have started off an

autoimmune problem.

My TSH was 3.5 less than a year ago and now is 5.6 and I had had TFTs 3 or 4

times before that but don't know results - I think they'd show a steady increase

in TSH.

So yes, I have to keep fighting until I get my meds! I have a pituitary MRI and

ovarian ultrasound in less than 4 weeks time, then hopefully a consult with an

endo to discuss results. I'll def be highlighting the TSH issue then and I've

just learned from my mum that my gran had a goiter when she was young and had to

have an op and meds. I never knew this but could strengthen my case!

The GP has put on her notes that I need repeat TFTs with antibodies (which I've

not had done before) at beginning Sept. Don't want to wait that long! I guess

I'll ask for it sooner - or the endo will.

I literally haven't been to work, driven my car or walked more than 20 yards in

a year now. The thought of having to wait needlessly for further tests is so

very upsetting. Sure you know exactly what I mean. And yes i need to feel a

whole lot better before producing a baby, and I too had a miscarriage 3 years

ago and couldn't conceive again after, then decided to stop trying for a while.

Good luck with it all and lets keep talking and encouraging each other!

Rach xx

Sorry I cannot delete the rest of the message below, my PC is on the blink so I

have to type on my mobile phone and it doesn't let me delete long sections - so

sorry Lilian/moderator. Will comply when I get online properly. Thanks.

> Hi jackie

>

> That's a tricky one. I too suffer from CFS according to the doctors though I

> feel sure there are other issues going on (see my post from last night on

> 'I'm new, borderline hypothyroid)

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

To be fair to him, my GP has offered to do these interim tests whilst I'm still on Armour and then do the Free T4,Free T3 and Reverse T3 after a six-week clear out which I haven't agreed to, but I do take your point that he may not accept the antibody result in the meantime!

In that case I would take him up on the offer before he changes his mind - and thank your lucky stars <g> .... I know, I know... we all make our own "luck", and you have worked hard on your GP to get him to agree to run those tests – so, well done you J !

You won't have to eat gluten for long before the test to bring your autoantibodies up, I don't think. A few days should do it to bring them out in numbers.... There is no guarantee, but I would give that a try. Your GP may be more inclined to come round to your way of thinking if you could prove that you do have positive AAs. But whatever the result, the information is more use to you than anybody else.

To know where you stand with your minerals and vitamins is equally vital. Never mind your GP, you need to know if you have to supplement anything to optimize utilization of your Armour; and whether your GP accepts a positive count of autoantibodies or not won't make a great deal of difference. As long as you know what is going on in your body, you can treat accordingly.

By the way can anyone tell me the range of the two sets of antibodies and what levels constitute as indicative of hypo please? Every lab has its own set of ref ranges – the `usual' ref range for TPOs is >100, but some labs have set it at >50 and I have even seen >30 as a cut-off point. I don't know the usual range for TgAB, but as I said, you will have to set your result against the respective range of the lab that is used.

You have tested positive (and thereby diagnostic for Hashimoto's) if either (or both) of the antibodies (TPO and TgAB) exceed the given ref range.... however, whilst testing positive is diagnostic for the disease, not testing positive does not exclude a diagnosis – they could be in remission at the time of testing....

EBV IgG+IgM is an antibody check for the Ebstein Barr Virus....

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

Hi Miriam - Actually my GP is totally against Armour as he dismissed my mention of it and started talking about Quack Doctors and one in particular giving patients CJD.  When pushed, he admitted my thyroid was

deteriorating because the TSH numbers have been going up since 2002 when first tested but said he didn't think it qualified for Levothyroxine anyway.

He only backed down and offered to do more tests when I put Dr Peatfield's book in his lap on the page showing which blood tests to have i.e. the Free T4, Free T3 and Reverse T3.  However he refused to borrow my book, so I'm not really sure where he stands.  I think he's only offering to do these to show they're negative and then he can say he's right about it being CFS!!!Jackie xOn Thu, Jun 16, 2011 at 8:45 AM, miriam_hinch <miriam_hinch@...> wrote:

 

As you have only been on the Armour for 3 weeks I would say it was well worth stopping it altogether for 6 weeks to get some clear baseline readings. You don't say how much you have been taking, so you might need to wean off it gradually and then have 6 clear weeks.

[Guest guest]

It looks like I got the wrong impression from your first posting. However, you

also say you had a one-hour argument with your GP, which I find amazing. At my

surgery patients are only allowed 5 minutes with their doctor. In fact they

keep telling you to stick to one symptom per visit! The very fact that your GP

was prepared to talk to you for an hour shows a very good attitude so far as I

can see.

Miriam

> Hi Miriam - Actually my GP is totally against Armour

[Guest guest]

I live in a small village :)Sent from my small keyboard iPod, hence brevity. On 16 Jun 2011, at 18:08, "miriam_hinch" <miriam_hinch@...> wrote:

It looks like I got the wrong impression from your first posting. However, you also say you had a one-hour argument with your GP, which I find amazing.

[Guest guest]

Hi again , Miriam, , Sally, Lou and :)I think my GP's response yesterday afternoon to my recent e-mail says it all really.  I really knew in my heart that he wouldn't come round to 'our' way of thinking but I feel the exercise was worthwhile if only to get him to admit I have 'early thyroid failure' rather than CFS, when he'd marked my blood test results as " Satisfactory, no action necessary. "  The fact that he does't think me worthy of treatment is another matter.  Blatant neglect in my eyes!

In my e-mail amongst other things, I asked him if he was aware that a TSH like mine (2.90 in 2011, 2.45 in 2007, 2.19 in 2002) would be classed as hypothyroidism across the Channel in France and Belgium and also Norway? (someone posted this on this forum the other day).  His response:   " I think it is a little unreasonable to suggest a TSH below 3 would routinely be diagnosed as hypothyroid in the US although I fully accept that your TSH is increasing and I think it perfectly reasonable to suggest this is due to early thyroid failure. "  (I didn't even mention the USA!!!)

Although I have not formally approached my colleagues. I was at a Diabetes meeting in xxxxxx yesterday and had a chance to speak to our local Endocrinologist xxxx xxxx. He was quite illuminating on a few aspects of the “thyroid controversy”. One issue I found interesting is the issue of the purity and reliability of Porcine Thyroid replacement. He felt that the commercially produced products (such as Armour) have huge batch to batch variability levels of available thyroid hormones. This would certainly explain why there is no UK licence for the product. Also whilst Forest Pharmaceutics (manufacturers' of Armour) are in no way Big Pharma they appear to be particularly Internet savvy when it comes to marketing popping up high up in a verity of search engines! Whilst not in it’s own right a bad thing I always get a little concerned about this type of marketing as sure enough money is there to be made here. Just a word of caution. "

So it would appear that the local Endo highly disapproves and is using scare tactics with that old chestnut of batch variability and doubts the purity and reliability of Porcine Thyroid replacement which I read about (might have been in the files section?) explaining how that issue was addressed.  

Oh well, at least I know where I stand and have decided it's just not worth discussing this further with him as clearly we are at completely different ends of the spectrum, he thinks he's right and I know I'm right and it just serves to make me angry, which isn't good for my blood pressure!  

I'll just take the interim blood tests offered, obtain the results from the surgery and take it from there. Suffice to say I won't be physically going to see him again!  If anyone in the North East has found a good Endo, I'd appreciate it if they could let me know please.

Hope you all manage to have a nice weekend and thanks so much for your input which is greatly appreciated !!!

Jackie x

[Guest guest]

Dear Jackie,

[[...One issue I found interesting is the issue of the purity and reliability of Porcine Thyroid replacement. He felt that the commercially produced products (such as Armour) have huge batch to batch variability levels of available thyroid hormones. This would certainly explain why there is no UK licence for the product.....]]

It's called selective memory and elective recall.

That's one huge lie.

The original dessicated porcine thyroid material is carefully selected and then blended to give reliable figures for both T4 and T3 and the ratio of the two, all within limits that match the test(s) for Levothyroxine.

Synthetic levothyroxine is subject to a wide variability in its bio-equivalence and has been recalled on a number of occasions in the past when substantial amounts were found to be faulty in the market place.

A reformulation of dessicated porcine thyroid hormone a couple of years back, led to some unexpected reaction(s) from people who had been used to sub-lingual absorbtion of the T3 component of that previous (mainly) sugar based formula.

The reformulation used mainly a cellulosic support with a trace of sugar, in line with the synthetic levothyroxine and to take advantage of that similar bio-equivalence profile as demonstrated by synthetic levothyroxine.

The problem with all drugs is that they may contain the same 'active ' component in all versions, but the place in the gut where the absorbtion takes place can vary widely, as between the portal circulation and the lower intestine, depending upon the type of 'filler' material(s) present in each separate formulation.

That's why 'slow release' formulations may not work in quite the same way that the ordinary formulation (quick release) works.

best wishes

Bob

>> Hi again , Miriam, , Sally, Lou and > > I think my GP's response yesterday afternoon to my recent e-mail says it all really. Hope you all manage to have a nice weekend and thanks so much for your input which is greatly appreciated !!!

<><>

> Jackie x

[Guest guest]

Bob, that's absolutely fantastic being able to quote that: " Synthetic levothyroxine has been recalled on a number of occasions in the past when substantial amounts were found to be faulty in the market place. "   !!!!! 

Thank you !!!  Initially I wasn't going to respond to him again because this gets me so angry and upset, but since I posted that on the forum earlier, I realised in the interests of fairness and an attempt at justice, I just couldn't let it go and had actually already drafted this:

" ....However, I feel I must mention that there have been many, many medical disasters over the years and those that continue to this day, Thalidomide being just one.  There's a huge list on the front of today's MHRA page recalling batches of drugs, problems with faulty devices, the list goes on.  I've observed this for many years and I can argue my points regarding the purity of the natural thyroid thanks to the Thyroid Patient Advocacy et al.  My eldest daughter (a pharmacist) who was head-hunted by Boots some years ago because of her brilliant University record, was appalled at a factory visit to (Boots) Nottingham when she pointed out that none of the factory workers were wearing hats!!!  She didn't stay working for Boots for very long after having further insights into the company.... "

Thanks again

Jackie xOn Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 2:40 PM, bob.m9uk <Bob.m9uk@...> wrote:

 Dear Jackie,[[...One issue I found interesting is the issue of the  purity and reliability of Porcine Thyroid replacement. He felt that the commercially produced products (such as Armour) have huge batch to batch variability levels of available thyroid hormones. This would certainly explain why there is no UK licence for the product.....]]

It's called selective memory and elective recall.That's one huge lie.

[Guest guest]

Hi Jackie,

....and Boots put out a Selenium Supplement labelled with the contents in

milligrams and not micrograms !! ...only a factor of x1000 adrift.

So the Website was entirely wrong at the same time...

No chemist ever checked those numbers (as real quantities)

That recall was done very quietly just before the entire business was put into

private ownership (under the careful gaze of Pat Hewitt, later, to take up work

with the 'new' Boots).

best wishes

Bob

>

> >

> >

> > Dear Jackie,

> >

> > *[[...One issue I found interesting is the issue of the purity and

> > reliability of Porcine Thyroid replacement. He felt that the commercially

> > produced products (such as Armour) have huge batch to batch variability

> > levels of available thyroid hormones. This would certainly explain why

> > there is no UK licence for the product.....]]*

> >

> > *It's called selective memory and elective recall.*

> >

> > *That's one huge lie.*

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hello Jackie,

Further to Bob's posting you may also want to read the following....

http://f1.grp.fs.com/v1/4F37TQBinXoqYBFJp_1LGLikAji9LK_BXgrvo_Shlj8XUAu8SDaPviKH1IAohXtcsBCJS83kryXdyNMTi-yEDEbcUbGttP_09kU/ALL%20NATURAL%20DESICCATED%20THYROID%20INFO./resp_bta_armour.pdf

(if the above does not open for some reason - it's taken from our files (look under ALL NATURAL DESICCATED THYROID INFO. and then open resp_bta_armour.pdf ) -

Extract:

"All thyroid hormone products, both animal-derived and synthetic, are unstable compared to many other drugs. Thyroid hormones consist of iodine atoms bound to the amino acid tyrosine. The iodine atoms easily separate from the tyrosine".13 Therefore, it is prudent for both doctors and patients to be vigilant for sub-potent tablets or capsules.

There is no evidence showing that thyroxine sodium and liothyronine are more stable than Armour® thyroid. The BTA statement causes confusion for doctors, often to the detriment of patients. It is the belief of TPA-UK that such statements by the BTA should be evidence-based and TPA therefore supply herewith the references to support their claims.

It appears that some NHS doctors do not recommend Armour® thyroid because they believe the amount of thyroid hormone varies between batches and/or they believe the higher ratio of T3 to T4 in Armour® could be harmful or cause adverse reactions. The evidence does not support such reasoning, and in fact the variation of thyroid hormone in Armour® is minimal and well controlled (maximum 5-10 %) as specified by the US FDA.14, 15

There are many thyroid extract preparations and the trademark Armour® Thyroid should not be used as a generic name for these. There is much evidence that Armour® Thyroid is the most reliable of the desiccated thyroid preparations in the US.15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Best wishes,

[Guest guest]

.... and just for fun – may I please comment on your GP's reasoning, Jackie.....

He was quite illuminating on a few aspects of the "thyroid controversy". One issue I found interesting is the issue of the purity and reliability of Porcine Thyroid replacement.

In a word – that's bollocks J.... The purity of Armour is checked by the FDA. The American Food and Drug control is (arguably) the best in the world. If it were true what your GP and this

endo are insinuating, Armour would never have passed their stringent quality control.

He felt that the commercially produced products (such as Armour) have huge batch to batch variability levels of available thyroid hormones.

Bollocks again! That is a blatant lie....

This would certainly explain why there is no UK licence for the product.

Nope, it ain't..... the reasons are - and I quote from the TPA document I posted earlier:

The MHRA does allow doctors to prescribe Armour Thyroid from Forest Pharmaceutical. Armour® is a fully official FDA-registered drug in the USA, and appears in the dale Pharmacopoeia – page 1604. It is legal to prescribe Armour® Thyroid to a patient in the UK and it can be delivered by UK pharmacies if there is a prescription from a licensed physician.

Armour® and several other thyroid medications were 'grandfathered' in when Congress passed the Kefauver- Drug Efficacy Amendments of 1962 to tighten control over drugs. Before marketing a drug, manufacturers had to prove the safety and effectiveness for the product's intended use. The requirement was applied retrospectively to 1938, when the Food, Drugs and Cosmetics (FDC) Act was passed. Pre-1938 drugs were allowed because they were generally recognised as safe and effective, provided no evidence to the contrary developed.

Too much evidence to the contrary developed concerning the levothyroxine products and the FDA decided none was generally recognised as safe and effective, so these synthetic products lost their 'grandfathered' privilege and had to go through the NDA process. Armour® Thyroid continues to retain its 'grandfathered' status since no evidence to the contrary has developed concerning its safe and effective status.

Also whilst Forest Pharmaceutics (manufacturers' of Armour) are in no way Big Pharma they appear to be particularly Internet savvy when it comes to marketing popping up high up in a verity of search engines! Whilst not in it's own right a bad thing I always get a little concerned about this type of marketing as sure enough money is there to be made here. Just a word of caution."

LOL .... how does the saying go about stones and people sitting in glass houses ? Bloody cheek this - especially coming from a member of the medical establishment..... !!

Sorry – couldn't help myself J

Love,

[Guest guest]

Hi and Bob - you've given me so much evidence in support of my argument, I'll have fun this weekend compiling a response to my GP, which is going to be as big as a novel !!!  As soon as is practicable, I'll be changing Doctors but not before I ensure they print and put all my emails into my patient file.

I'm sorry to have caused you to get angry , but it is so infuriating !  As you say it's all b******s and lies and people in glass houses throwing stones

Jackie x

LOL

..... how does the saying go about stones and people sitting in glass houses ? Bloody cheek this - especially coming from a member of the medical establishment.....  !!

Sorry – couldn't help myself  J

Love,

[Guest guest]

I'll have fun this weekend compiling a response to my GP, which is going to be as big as a novel !!! As soon as is practicable, I'll be changing Doctors but not before I ensure they print and put all my emails into my patient file.I'm sorry to have caused you to get angry , but it is so infuriating ! As you say it's all b******s and lies and people in glass houses throwing stones

Hi Jackie,

Naaah, I didn't get angry; when I see someone spouting such blatant nonsense, it gives me great pleasure to dismantle the argument <bg>

One tip....when you write your letter, bear in mind that less is more. Make a list of points you want to address and stick to them; then shorten what you have written to an absolute minimum.... A short and `to the point' letter has much more impact than a lengthy one where you'd run the risk of rambling and losing focus. (I know, that's much, coming from me <g>)

Above all, bear in mind that until you have found another GP, you still need him .... and you want him to order those offered blood tests. To get those tests out of a new GP might need some persuading... particularly now where GP's are managing their own funds, as it were.

Good luck and fingers crossed J

[Guest guest]

That's really good advice as I did feel the need to 'prove' myself and give him ALL the evidence, but you're right and he's only picking holes in everything I say anyway, so the less I give him....

Actually, I think I'll withhold replying this weekend, as I've rang and booked the blood tests for Tuesday and I don't see why he should hold ME to ransom at my pc this weekend when I could be doing something more interesting !  I'll just keep quiet (until my blood tests come back) and lull him into a false sense of security and let him think he's won the argument, lololol and THEN I'll let him have my considered response   Hopefully, by then I'll be able to tell him that I'm feeling even better as I'll have been on Armour a few more weeks.  Already my back aches and pains have gone, which is marvelous!  Even the osteopath and the chiropractor couldn't fix that!  I'm sleeping through the night and even waking up before the alarm, I can't remember the last time THAT happened!  And I've stopped the constant loud yawning which was driving my daughter crazy and I'm only on one grain a day so far

I just pity his other patients, he was justifying levothyroxine and bragging about his double blind crossover trials at the surgery, he was giving placebos and (he said) people were getting better.  Yeah right, 'better', now there's a subjective word!  We, on this forum know that rarely do people get really better on synthetic thyroid let alone a placebo, in fact I've read that people often get worse.  But I haven't got the energy (yet!) to fight for those other patients, I have to take care of myself so I can look after my family.

So, I'm glad you didn't get angry but I will take your advice (short and to the point), when I do respond.  For now I'll await my blood results and see what they show. 

I'm doing the Genova saliva test tomorrow so I'll need so get researching in anticipation of the supplements I'm likely to need as I've just discovered the private homeopathic Dr who prescribed me the Armour isn't up on adrenal fatigue so I'm having to go it alone as many others are.  She had me do an iodine urine test which came back very low so she recommended a few Lugol's Iodine drops daily and to go very slowly with the Armour.

Thanks again C.Jackie xPS - Sorry for the rant but it WAS therapeutic

Hi Jackie,

Naaah, I didn't get angry; when I see someone spouting such blatant nonsense, it gives me great pleasure to dismantle the argument  <bg>

One tip....when you write your letter, bear in mind that less is more.

__,_._,_

[Guest guest]

You might examine the file on the Greater Thyroid System. It shows that

medicine only deal with a minority of that system. When the majority is

deficient, it needs something besides T4. That might be T3, adrenal support,

certain nutrients, etc.

Good Luck,

>

>

> I'll have fun this weekend compiling a response to my GP, which is going

> to be as big as a novel !!!

[Guest guest]

Thank you !Jackie xOn Sat, Jun 18, 2011 at 1:44 PM, ekp290340 <ekpritchard@...> wrote:

 

You might examine the file on the Greater Thyroid System