Re: Oh dear...not good news- it's going to be an uphill struggle huh?

[Guest guest]

Ooohh, come the revolution that's one doc who won't keep her job.... promise

So, she's putting her fingers in her ears and screaming so she doesn't hear you

eh? and then saying she doesn't need to justify herself... never ever go

back.... find yourself a new doc.

You could get the tests that you need done privately. A full thyroid screen

is less than £100 and there is discount from Genova. At least then you will

know what you are dealing with and will know whether you're being fobbed off.

If you post all the results on here Free T3, T4, TSH and antibodies someone

will be able to at least point you in the direction you need to take.....

If you have a fair idea of the problem then you can argue your case with the doc

and the endo, or decide if it's worth going private, or self treat whilst

having the doc monitor you.

Start keeping a chart of every test result and the meds you are on, I've got

tests going back about 10 years and it's a brilliant reference for when the doc

or the endo want to ugger about with your meds... you can refuse to change on

the grounds that you did it that way earlier and it didn't work!!

It doesn't have to be an uphill struggle, can't you see the doc that you bumped

in to?

x

>

> okay so just come back from the docs.

>

> I'd bumped into another doc when i went to the out of hours service at the

hospital last week. i'd mentioned my labs to him - he said definitely ask for

the Free T3 and anti bodies.

>

[Guest guest]

Hiya!

I saw him at an out patient clinic at the Western and his practise is out of my

area - WELL outside it. There's another practise down the road from me so will

go directly to GO and collect �200 :-)

she started out really nice but like you said - stuck her fingers in her ears.

she had a STUDENT doc with her too - REALLY irresponsible.

i said - i can't live like this - it's ridiculous - i could loose my job and

although my kidney/liver/diabeties tests came back " normal " too - it won't carry

on like this unless i can shift some of these inches!

i mean - who SKIS for 4 months solid, every day - burning 2k cals a day and

doesn't loose a single dress size?

Someone who eats a superfoods and low carb/low sugar/low dairy diet of lean

mean, veggies, fruit nuts and seeds and can;t shift a frikking inch? I played

squash THREE times last week.

PLUS the regular COLD feeling

AND the fatigue all day

Really - It's NOT hypo??? What the heck is it? is she going to waste my time

going through each symptom one by one, forgetting the low FT4 and REFUSING to

confirm suspicions through the finals tests.

The NHS should be ASHAMED!!

>

> Ooohh, come the revolution that's one doc who won't keep her job.... promise

>

> So, she's putting her fingers in her ears and screaming so she doesn't hear

you eh? and then saying she doesn't need to justify herself... never ever

go back.... find yourself a new doc.

>

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Don't we just love the NHS and its

experts who call themselves 'doctors'. This is the reason TPA has over 2120

members - all NHS failures!

i asked her if they came back normal, even if they were

really LOW - would she treat the symptoms. she said NO. It's OBVIOUSLY

something else.

…but OBVIOUSLY, she isn't prepared to find out what IS the

cause of your symptoms is - Hmm! Obviously unable to " justify " her

training.

so i thoug - bogger this - i'm not waiting for them to

exchange snail mail - so i got out of the docs and phoned the dept of

endocrinology straight away. the lady on call seemed very nice to begin with.

when i challenged the fact that she believed 10 out of 10-26

range to still be NORMAL despite horrinble symptoms - she said - it's not your

thyroid, not definitely not

Do you know what position the lady on call holds. I would make

it my business to find out. Did SHE give you any clue as to whether the

Endocrinology Department would be prepared to do further investigations to find

what the cause for your symptoms is if it is " definitely not " thyroid

related?

i said - even WITHOUT checking the Free t3 and anti-bodies?

She said yes...not thyroid and won't be recommending further tests.

This needs reporting as it is breaking 'The Duties of a Doctor

Registered with the General Medical Council.

so - new doc practise then!

My personal take on this is to say NO - don't make it easy for your

doctor or whoever you spoke to in the endocrinology department, this is exactly

what such doctors want. They know nothing about thyroid or how the metabolism

works so they get rid of those patients complaining of symptoms, who have low

thyroid results and who are showing signs because THEY DON'T KNOW HOW TO TREAT

IT - and the BTA and the RCP have tied their hands. You need to challenge their

lack of knowledge and make them do something about it - otherwise, they win,

and the patient loses, every single time. This has got to stop!

i notived Dr Antonthy Toft who is famous in the field and

actually said himself a Free t4 range should be in the UPPER part of the range

- not frikkin TEN!!

No local docs in the Docs list rom Sheila sadly...

This doesn't matter. You can be referred OUTSIDE of your area

however far you have to travel - and DON'T LET YOUR DOCTOR TELL YOU OTHERWISE.

You don't have to go to your local endocrinology specialist (I bet their

specialism is in Diabetes and not thyroid). Pick one of the doctors on my list

that you fancy and ask your GP to refer you, but if you go privately, you don't

need a referral, except to Dr Skinner.

OK, here is what you now do:

Write a letter to your GP sending a copy to the Head of

Practice. Keep it nice and light and polite and to the point.

First, write out a list of all your symptoms and signs (check

these against those in our web site www.tpa-uk.org.uk

under 'Hypothyroidism') It matters not how long your list may be - list

everything - especially the signs, as these are things the doctor can SEE.

Next, take your basal temperature before getting out of bed in a

morning for 4 or 5 days. List these if they are less than 97.8degrees F or 36.6

degrees C - low temperature is an indication the metabolism isn't working as it

should.

Next, list all the members of your family who have a thyroid or

autoimmune disease.

Next,  say that you are extremely unhappy that your GP has ruled

out the possibility of you having symptoms of hypothyroidism, especially when

you are slap bang on the bottom of the free T4 reference range, unhappy that

your free T3 was not tested, unhappy that a request for your TPO and TgAb

antibodies was refused and that you would like the reason why this was refused,

in writing. Ask also that the following vitamins and minerals are tested to see

whether any of these have low levels. Tell her of the connection

between low levels of these minerals/vitamin and hypothyroidism and that low

levels stop the thyroid hormone being properly utilised at the cellular level -

so it is very important that low levels are supplemented. Copy the following

links to the research to show her

Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to

significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block

the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4).

Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a

ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels.

Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron

deficiency is present (1-4)).

1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al.

Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism.

Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2.

SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In

vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of

dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of

Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry

and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for

Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr.

1989;119:772-778.

Low

vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low

vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low

magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low

folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low 

copper/zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Tell her that you have been doing a lot of research in the

top medical journals and that you have found that some

common

and often undiagnosed symptoms and dangerous consequences of low

thyroid include: serious mental problems, seizures, heart disease, diabetes

including misdiagnosis and complications, constipation resulting in colon

cancer, all female problems (due to high amounts of dangerous forms of

oestrogen), including: tumours, fibroids, ovarian cysts, PMS, endometriosis,

breast cancer, miscarriage, heavy periods and cramps, bladder problems leading

to infections, anaemia, elevated CPK, elevated creatinine, elevated

transaminases, hypercapnia, hyperlipidaemia, hypoglycaemia, hyponatraemia,

hypoxia, leukopaenia respiratory acidosis and others..... Ask that she

please check out some of the references to the many studies already carried out

on mild thyroid failure and again, emphasise the need for a full thyroid function

test, plus thyroid antibodies, plus a thorough clinical examination, plus

family history and your previous medical history to be taken into consideration

- before she dismisses you telling you that you do not have a thyroid problem.

Next, tell her that you would like to be referred to Dr so and

so…who is outside of your area because there is notg a 'THYROID'

specialist in y our own area and you want to be seen by somebody who knows

about thyroid and who does not have their specialism in diabetes.

Next, ask that your letter of requests be placed into your

Medical Records and send a copy to the Head of Practice.

Doctors pay a lot more attention to the written word, so good

luck. Be sure to keep a copy for yourself in case your letter gets

'accidentally' lost - which might be the case if your doctor is not willing to

work with you. If she doesn't respond within two working weeks, send a copy to

her as a reminder and ask her to contact you within a week - which will then be

3 weeks after you first made your requests.

Luv - Sheila

1 of 1 File(s)

STUDIES SHOWING EFFICACY OF TREATING MILD THYROID FAILURE.doc

[Guest guest]

Thanks Sheila

Off to buy a thermometer today at lunch. Not sure where mine got to in the

house.

Anyway - thanks for your suggestions - I was hyper aware that the NHS have

failed so many patients - so perhaps I went in on the defensive. Although I did

have all the paperwork to back up what I was saying and I was as polite as

possible.

She basically said - don't think it's the thyroid - what about sleep apnea

(because obvsiouly she thought I was so fat that it was a more obvious choice

than hypo!?) I mean why get halfway through a diagnosis - abandon it based on

half the information and disappear off down a completely different tangent?

It was only when I said - well what about the Free t3 and anti-bodies - this

other Doc seemed to think it was a good idea - if my free t4 is as low (her

reply - Yes but it's normal " ) on the scale, then I doubt it's converting very

much T3. (her query - " do you work in the medical profession? " ) aarrgh.

So she said - " I will write to the Dept of Endo and see what they say " and I

said - but can't you just get the last two tests authorised to confirm or deny

what we are discussing?

No. I'll ask dept of endo what they suggest. If they say No then i'll say no.

*she was prepared to look at my symptoms and take them individually and

diagnose...however doesn't she think i've already been there? I've been to a

nutrionist, i've had the diabeties test, I don't have sleep apnea...why won't

she look at the symptoms as a collective?

The lady at the dept of endo that I phoned got very exasperated as I noted that

I'd never had a free t4 done when I was fit and healthy. So how can they

unequivocally say it's now normal. My set point may be way higher. I noted

that her ex-colleague Dr Toft stated that through meds - the aim is to increase

the free t4 to the upper end of the normal scale. She completely disregarded

this info (from a MBE Doctor!!) She basically said - not hypo - go back to the

doc and work out what else it could be. (WITHOUT checking the free

t3/anti-bodies) Stop going to different doctors.

Anyway - I started to say the famous Dr Toft is practising at the Murrayfield

Bupa. But a quick google search revealed that he doesn't practise what he

preaches any more and that he looks down on people like me - with a normal TSH

and low FT4. I'll see if I can find the article.

Anyway - gloves on...boxing stance adopted. round two...ding, ding!

Thanks for your help so far

kind regards

sarah

>

> Don't we just love the NHS and its experts who call themselves 'doctors'.

> This is the reason TPA has over 2120 members - all NHS failures!

>

> i asked her if they came back normal, even if they were really LOW - would

> she treat the symptoms. she said NO. It's OBVIOUSLY something else.

>

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Toft is now retired. He was the man on the road to Damascus but

has since turned tail yet again. I think he is fed up of the whole damned

thyroid business and just wants out.

If you look in the BTA guidelines on UK guidelines on thyroid

function tests, they state that a TSH should be done TOGETHER WITH A

MEASUREMENT OF T4 . http://www.british-thyroid-association.org/info-for-patients/Docs/TFT_guideline_final_version_July_2006.pdf

.. Perhaps you should show these to your doctor. Either your doctor follows what

the British Thyroid Association state or she doesn't, but she needs a damned

good reason why she doesn't and I would make her put it in writing.

Luv - Sheila

Off to buy a thermometer today at lunch. Not sure where mine got to in the

house.

Anyway - thanks for your suggestions - I was hyper aware that the NHS have

failed so many patients - so perhaps I went in on the defensive. Although I did

have all the paperwork to back up what I was saying and I was as polite as

possible.

She basically said - don't think it's the thyroid - what about sleep apnea

(because obvsiouly she thought I was so fat that it was a more obvious choice

than hypo!?) I mean why get halfway through a diagnosis - abandon it based on

half the information and disappear off down a completely different tangent?

It was only when I said - well what about the Free t3 and anti-bodies - this

other Doc seemed to think it was a good idea - if my free t4 is as low (her

reply - Yes but it's normal " ) on the scale, then I doubt it's converting

very much T3. (her query - " do you work in the medical profession? " )

aarrgh.

So she said - " I will write to the Dept of Endo and see what they

say " and I said - but can't you just get the last two tests authorised to confirm

or deny what we are discussing?

No. I'll ask dept of endo what they suggest. If they say No then i'll say no.

*she was prepared to look at my symptoms and take them individually and

diagnose...however doesn't she think i've already been there? I've been to a

nutrionist, i've had the diabeties test, I don't have sleep apnea...why won't

she look at the symptoms as a collective?

The lady at the dept of endo that I phoned got very exasperated as I noted that

I'd never had a free t4 done when I was fit and healthy. So how can they

unequivocally say it's now normal. My set point may be way higher. I noted that

her ex-colleague Dr Toft stated that through meds - the aim is to increase the

free t4 to the upper end of the normal scale. She completely disregarded this

info (from a MBE Doctor!!) She basically said - not hypo - go back to the doc

and work out what else it could be. (WITHOUT checking the free t3/anti-bodies)

Stop going to different doctors.

Anyway - I started to say the famous Dr Toft is practising at the Murrayfield

Bupa. But a quick google search revealed that he doesn't practise what he

preaches any more and that he looks down on people like me - with a normal TSH

and low FT4. I'll see if I can find the article.

Anyway - gloves on...boxing stance adopted. round two...ding, ding!

Thanks for your help so far

kind regards

sarah

>

> Don't we just love the NHS and its experts who call themselves 'doctors'.

> This is the reason TPA has over 2120 members - all NHS failures!

>

> i asked her if they came back normal, even if they were really LOW - would

> she treat the symptoms. she said NO. It's OBVIOUSLY something else.

>

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

hey sheila

sorry - maybe my confusion. They HAVE done tsh and t4. They are not happy to do

Free t3, reverse t3 and anti-bodies.

Ps - Toft has retired from the NHS but is entrenched up at the Murrayfield Bupa

as a consultant. Earning nice money no doubt. If I thought he hasn't done a

U-turn i'd be up there like a shot

http://www.spirehealthcare.com/Edinburgh/Our-Facilities-Treatments-and-Consultan\

ts/Our-Consultants/Dr--Toft/

>

> Toft is now retired. He was the man on the road to Damascus but has since

> turned tail yet again. I think he is fed up of the whole damned thyroid

> business and just wants out.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

TSH 1.5 and Free t4 11. In 2008 the Free t4 was 10.

I'm not a bupa member so it's hundreds of pounds to even get in the door. what

I might do is get registered with the different docs down the road -

nonchelantly ask for the Free T3, RT3 and Anti-bodies and see if I can at least

get the results of those. Think they would be important before visiting Toft.

Or get a referral to the doc in Falkirk on your list. He has an email address so

might drop him a line - sound him out first.

sarah

> >

> > Toft is now retired. He was the man on the road to Damascus but has since

> > turned tail yet again. I think he is fed up of the whole damned thyroid

> > business and just wants out.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Hi , I don't believe the NHS do a reverse T3 but they

should certainly do a free T3 plus TSH (without asking for free T4) if your

doctor believes you might be hypERthyroid. See if that works.

TSH 1.5 and Free t4 11. In 2008 the Free t4 was 10.

I'm not a bupa member so it's hundreds of pounds to even get in the door. what

I might do is get registered with the different docs down the road -

nonchelantly ask for the Free T3, RT3 and Anti-bodies and see if I can at least

get the results of those. Think they would be important before visiting Toft.

Or get a referral to the doc in Falkirk on your list. He has an email address

so might drop him a line - sound him out first.

> >

> > Toft is now retired. He was the man on the road to Damascus but has

since

> > turned tail yet again. I think he is fed up of the whole damned

thyroid

> > business and just wants out.

> >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

thanks Sheila - will register with this other practise and see if I can get the

Free t3. got the thermometer (mercury is banned now apparently!) and gave it a

wee go (3pm - 16 degrees outside. I'm 36 celcius. will be interesting to see

my morning temp!)

so going to track it - extra times when I feel cold and see what it shows.

when i went in to boots to get my thermometer - the nice lady was hpo herself

and talked about a goiter she had...sounded horrid!

anyway - she mentioned a doc she used, but she also recommended kelp - which i

believe I shouldn't take before getting the blood tested?

:-)