Re: Reference ranges Calcium B12 Folate (brought over from Chat group)

[Guest guest]

Yes Jaki - that is fine. These are what I personally take.

Before seeing endocrinologist, check out 'Information for

patients' Folder in our Files section and scroll down to the File entitled

" First visit to Endocrinologists " and this might help you get

everything you need together.

Luv - sheila

Solgar

Vitamin B12 1000 mcg Nuggets - 250 nuggets by Solgar

Sheila

I'm Just making sure this is right product before I order...Jaki.

Hence my

contact with the Endo on Friday. I'll order the Solgar online Sheila.

Many

Thanks

Jaki

Facial

numbness tingling in fingers and burning, restless feet could be an indication

of low B12, and yes, unfortunately, the endocrinologists needs to go back to

school to learn that B12 needs to be AT THE TOP of the reference range. Yours

is FAR too low and if this was me, I would start a course of sublingual B12

(Solgar is excellent) taking 1000mcgs daily. You might find you do better to

start straight off on 2000mcgs until your B12 level starts to build up.

Also,

folate is too low (see attached document where you can see where specific

minerals and vitamins levels should be in the reference range. Calcium is below

the bottom of the reference range. Has your daughter been given a full thyroid

function test

Luv

- Sheila

Having

been symptomatic with facial numbness tingling in fingers with burning

restless feet for some months and generally not feeling myself. BP

has gone from being low/ normal to High etc. Have been

suspicious that calcium and B12 were deficient for sometime.

So

Tuesday I requested bloods tests and Thursday I got the results which I'm now

querying. Where are the best levels within ref ranges are for Calcium,

B12 and Folate. Middle or top of the range? And why? Below are

recent results highlighted.

On Friday

Folic Acid and Adcal D3 was prescribed by Endo...he didn't think B12

was that low. Thoughts are to phone GP today to discuss B12 which I think is in

the low/ normal of the range.

Calcium..2.20,

2.18, 2.13 ref range (2.15-2.65) This has been falling for sometime.

B12..

553, 378ref range (150-900) First result was Dec took

a course of B12 in April??

Serum

Folate... 2.8 ref range (3.2-13.0)

[Guest guest]

Great Sheila thanks I've put an order away and the sooner I start the course the better. Want a laugh?

Earlier tonight I went to the cemetery with a flower trough that I had planted up weeks ago for my mum's grave. Believe it or not out of the blue I totally lost my balance whilst tidying up the grass and I landed flat on my back. "thankfully it was a soft landing" It happened like slow motion and I just lay there laughing at myself for a moment. Afterwards when I was lifting the planter out of the car it left me jiggered. But the sight was worth it. Roll on Solgar...Thanks for your advice I'll sift through it and shout if I've got queries. Jaki

Yes Jaki - that is fine. These are what I personally take.

Before seeing endocrinologist, check out 'Information for patients' Folder in our Files section and scroll down to the File entitled "First visit to Endocrinologists" and this might help you get everything you need together.

Luv - sheila

Solgar Vitamin B12 1000 mcg Nuggets - 250 nuggets by Solgar

Sheila I'm Just making sure this is right product before I order...Jaki.

Hence my contact with the Endo on Friday. I'll order the Solgar online Sheila.

Many Thanks Jaki

Facial numbness tingling in fingers and burning, restless feet could be an indication of low B12, and yes, unfortunately, the endocrinologists needs to go back to school to learn that B12 needs to be AT THE TOP of the reference range.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hello Sally Thanks for your info. This will take me sometime to read over so I'll be unable to comment tonight.

I've taken the liberty of cutting and pasting the contents of the link you were unable to open meantime. I hope this is okay.

One thing you mention is Hair Analysis and that caught my attention as my hair structure has changed completely. My hairdresser has neve seen a client whose hair has gone from having a natural wave to Afro. I've had a Sensitive scalp and hair loss for years with a re-growth of a finer curler texture head of hair. I'll read your article in more depth later and do appreciate your thoughts. Jaki.

Preparing for your appointment with an endocrinologist

If your GP refers you to an endocrinology, here is some information to help you prepare for your appointment and what you should expect from him/her.

However, if you wish to see a particular endocrinologist and not his senior/junior registrar, then please insist on seeing the doctor of your choice from the word go. Tell the person who arranges the appointments that you will wait, if necessary, to see whoever you have chosen to see and will only attend his/her particular clinics. That way, you and the endocrinologist will be able to build up a relationship, which is impossible if you see one doctor at one appointment and somebody else at the next.

What you can do

Be aware of any pre-appointment restrictions. At the time your appointment is made, be sure to ask if there is anything you need to do in advance to prepare for common diagnostic tests – such as taking with you a urine sample, will you need to fast for any of the blood tests or do you need to stop taking medication before you have tests.

Write down all symptoms and changes you are experiencing, even if they seem unrelated to each other. Write down also the signs you are showing (these are differences in your body that you can see). You can check these against the symptoms and signs in our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk . Click on Hypothyroidism in the Menu and then Symptoms and Signs in the drop down menu.

Write down key personal information, including any recent life changes or a noticeable difference in your ability to tolerate stress.

Write down the members of your family who have a thyroid disorder or an autoimmune disease.

Make a list of your key medical information, including recent surgical procedures, the names of all medications you're taking and any other conditions for which you've been treated. Write down also if you have been involved in a car accident that involved any whiplash injury.

Take your partner, a family member or a friend along, if possible. Sometimes it can be difficult to soak up all the information provided to you during an appointment. Someone who accompanies you may remember something that you missed or forgot so it is often a good idea for either you or them to have a notepad and pen to take down any notes..

Write down questions to ask the endocrinologist.

Create a list of questions ahead of your appointment so that you can make the most of your time with your doctor. Some basic questions to ask your doctor include:

What is likely causing my symptoms or condition?

What tests do I need?

Is my condition temporary or chronic?

What treatment approach do you recommend?

Can I have a choice of treatment if the one you recommend doesn’t work for me?

How long will I need to take medications?

How will you monitor whether my treatment is working?

Under what circumstances might my medications need to be adjusted?

Are there any restrictions that I need to follow?

Is there any printed material that I can take home with me?

What Web sites do you recommend sufferers should visit to find further information? (This could be an interesting question).

Do you know of any thyroid patient groups I could join for support.

There will be lots of other questions you need to ask him/her so add these to your list and during your consultation, if there is anything you don’t understand, don’t hesitate to ask for an explanation.

What to expect from your doctor

Your doctor is likely to ask you a number of questions so being prepared before you see him will be of great help to you as this may reserve time to go over any particularly important points you feel the need to spend more time on. Your doctor may ask:

What are your symptoms, and when did you first notice them?

How have your symptoms changed over time?

Has your appearance changed, including your weight or the amount of your body hair?

Have you lost interest in sex? If you're a woman, has your menstrual cycle changed?

Are you currently being treated or have you recently been treated for any other medical conditions?

Have you recently had a baby?

Have you had any recent head injuries or have you had neurosurgery?

Have any of your family members been diagnosed with thyroid disease, hormonal or autoimmune conditions?

What, if anything, seems to improve your symptoms?

What, if anything, appears to worsen your symptoms?

From: Sally Jarvis <wollertonbank@...>

If I can comment here. I agree with what has been said. Unfortunately I cannt open the document for some reason my computer wont accept it, so I cant see or comment on the attachment or its content.

What I would like to just make a comment on is the calcium. Your blood test shows a serum calcium level.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi Sally

Below is the content of the attachment you couldn't open (I

wonder why?)

This is just a short document for our members to pass on to

their doctors who refuse to accept that specific mineral and vitamins should be

tested to check their level in the reference range because of their possible

association with hypothyroidism, and reasons why their thyroid hormone

replacement might not be working. This gives just a few links to show the

association between low levels and continuing symptoms.  For sceptical doctors

only, as most will willingly do these tests:

LOW

MINERALS AND VITAMINS AND THE THYROID CONNECTION

We

recommend that all members should ask their GP or endocrinologist test the

following to see whether any of the results are returned low within the

reference range. This is because if low, thyroid hormone is unable to get into

the cells, either your own, or through thyroid hormone replacement.

Should

your GP or endocrinologist tell you that there is no connection between these

minerals or vitamin levels and hypothyroidism, then copy the following links

out to show him/her

Good

luck!

Low

iron/ferritin:

Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase

reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties

of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron

saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in diminished

intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate

thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)).

1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron

deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative

and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2.

SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic

thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat.

Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium

Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to

Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone

Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low  copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Ferritin levels for women need to be between

70 and 90 (for men around between 150 and 170)

Vitamin B12 needs to be at the top of the

range.

D3 levels need to be about 50.

Magnesium levels need to be at the top of the

range, it's one thing that gets missed a great deal. Your potassium and mag

need to be at the top.

If I can

comment here. I agree with what has been said. Unfortunately I

cannt open the document for some reason my computer wont accept it, so I cant

see or comment on the attachment or its content.

__

[Guest guest]

Hi sheila,

Thank you so much for doing that for me.

I think it may be my computer, I have had a couple of things happen like that and yet previously I seemed to open those things without problem. I think I need to get a 'man' in to sort it for me; so thank you again for sending me that info. very useful and most interesting.

sally xx

Hi Sally

Below is the content of the attachment you couldn't open (I wonder why?)

This is just a short document for our members to pass on to their doctors who refuse to accept that specific mineral and vitamins should be tested to check their level in the reference range because of their possible association with hypothyroidism, and reasons why their thyroid hormone replacement might not be working. This gives just a few links to show the association between low levels and continuing symptoms. For sceptical doctors only, as most will willingly do these tests:

LOW MINERALS AND VITAMINS AND THE THYROID CONNECTION

We recommend that all members should ask their GP or endocrinologist test the following to see whether any of the results are returned low within the reference range. This is because if low, thyroid hormone is unable to get into the cells, either your own, or through thyroid hormone replacement.

Should your GP or endocrinologist tell you that there is no connection between these minerals or vitamin levels and hypothyroidism, then copy the following links out to show him/her

Good luck!

Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4). Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels. Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron deficiency is present (1-4)).

1. Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al. Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism. Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2. SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3. Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4. Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr. 1989;119:772-778.

Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329 and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738 and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Ferritin levels for women need to be between 70 and 90 (for men around between 150 and 170)

Vitamin B12 needs to be at the top of the range.

D3 levels need to be about 50.

Magnesium levels need to be at the top of the range, it's one thing that gets missed a great deal. Your potassium and mag need to be at the top.

If I can comment here. I agree with what has been said. Unfortunately I cannt open the document for some reason my computer wont accept it, so I cant see or comment on the attachment or its content.

__

[Guest guest]

Hello Jaki,

Thank you for doing that for me....I never seem to have time to get stuff like computers sorted out.....I just wish they would work properly all the time to I dont have to bother!! tehe..

No worries, happy to help if I can. Yes I use hair analysis it gives details of tissue minerals in the body. I use mineral check http://www.mineralcheck.com/default.htm

this is a different company but the same test http://www.novadetox.co.uk/acatalog/hair-mineral-analysis.html I have also used the recommended vits and minerals and they are a good product too.

I certainly found a difference. I started this long before I got my diagnosis and the hair analysis showed the diagnosis of hypothyroidism and low adrenal function...then this was later confirmed with spit test.

i still use it as although I feel much better I am not perfect by any means.

I used to have curly hair and now have straight hair! My hair is though now growing back all over my body where I lost it from....so thats a little bit of good news!...Tehe. Best of luck Sally xx

Hello Sally Thanks for your info. This will take me sometime to read over so I'll be unable to comment tonight.

I've taken the liberty of cutting and pasting the contents of the link you were unable to open meantime. I hope this is okay.

One thing you mention is Hair Analysis and that caught my attention as my hair structure has changed completely. My hairdresser has neve seen a client whose hair has gone from having a natural wave to Afro. I've had a Sensitive scalp and hair loss for years with a re-growth of a finer curler texture head of hair. I'll read your article in more depth later and do appreciate your thoughts. Jaki.

Preparing for your appointment with an endocrinologist

If your GP refers you to an endocrinology, here is some information to help you prepare for your appointment and what you should expect from him/her.

However, if you wish to see a particular endocrinologist and not his senior/junior registrar, then please insist on seeing the doctor of your choice from the word go. Tell the person who arranges the appointments that you will wait, if necessary, to see whoever you have chosen to see and will only attend his/her particular clinics. That way, you and the endocrinologist will be able to build up a relationship, which is impossible if you see one doctor at one appointment and somebody else at the next.

What you can do

Be aware of any pre-appointment restrictions. At the time your appointment is made, be sure to ask if there is anything you need to do in advance to prepare for common diagnostic tests – such as taking with you a urine sample, will you need to fast for any of the blood tests or do you need to stop taking medication before you have tests.

Write down all symptoms and changes you are experiencing, even if they seem unrelated to each other. Write down also the signs you are showing (these are differences in your body that you can see). You can check these against the symptoms and signs in our website www.tpa-uk.org.uk . Click on Hypothyroidism in the Menu and then Symptoms and Signs in the drop down menu. Write down key personal information, including any recent life changes or a noticeable difference in your ability to tolerate stress.

Write down the members of your family who have a thyroid disorder or an autoimmune disease.

Make a list of your key medical information, including recent surgical procedures, the names of all medications you're taking and any other conditions for which you've been treated. Write down also if you have been involved in a car accident that involved any whiplash injury.

Take your partner, a family member or a friend along, if possible. Sometimes it can be difficult to soak up all the information provided to you during an appointment. Someone who accompanies you may remember something that you missed or forgot so it is often a good idea for either you or them to have a notepad and pen to take down any notes..

Write down questions to ask the endocrinologist.

Create a list of questions ahead of your appointment so that you can make the most of your time with your doctor. Some basic questions to ask your doctor include:

What is likely causing my symptoms or condition?

What tests do I need?

Is my condition temporary or chronic?

What treatment approach do you recommend?

Can I have a choice of treatment if the one you recommend doesn’t work for me?

How long will I need to take medications?

How will you monitor whether my treatment is working?

Under what circumstances might my medications need to be adjusted?

Are there any restrictions that I need to follow?

Is there any printed material that I can take home with me?

What Web sites do you recommend sufferers should visit to find further information? (This could be an interesting question).

Do you know of any thyroid patient groups I could join for support.

There will be lots of other questions you need to ask him/her so add these to your list and during your consultation, if there is anything you don’t understand, don’t hesitate to ask for an explanation.

What to expect from your doctor

Your doctor is likely to ask you a number of questions so being prepared before you see him will be of great help to you as this may reserve time to go over any particularly important points you feel the need to spend more time on. Your doctor may ask:

What are your symptoms, and when did you first notice them?

How have your symptoms changed over time?

Has your appearance changed, including your weight or the amount of your body hair?

Have you lost interest in sex? If you're a woman, has your menstrual cycle changed?

Are you currently being treated or have you recently been treated for any other medical conditions?

Have you recently had a baby?

Have you had any recent head injuries or have you had neurosurgery?

Have any of your family members been diagnosed with thyroid disease, hormonal or autoimmune conditions?

What, if anything, seems to improve your symptoms?

What, if anything, appears to worsen your symptoms?

From: Sally Jarvis <wollertonbank@...>

If I can comment here. I agree with what has been said. Unfortunately I cannt open the document for some reason my computer wont accept it, so I cant see or comment on the attachment or its content.

What I would like to just make a comment on is the calcium. Your blood test shows a serum calcium level.

[Ed]