Re: basic thyroid hormone questions - maybe for ?

[Guest guest]

Hi again,

I have a few thoughts on this.

1) There are many things that have the effect of causing apparent resistance to

thyroid hormones - not just rT3. I've identified (from the medical research) at

least eight different classes of problems, each of which can have multiple

causes in their own right.

2) Most of the causes of apparent resistance can't be measured by any test

because they occur within the cells and often have no easy way of testing them.

Most of the causes have little to do with rT3 and so rT3 is often a massive red

herring.

3) So, the only thing to go on is the actual response to thyroid hormone.

4) Your conclusion that because you are on 87 mcg T3 and you feel nothing then

it follows that you must have massive resistance is flawed. Other things can

cause the same effect.

It would be immensely helpful if we could have a succinct list of symptoms that

drove you to go to just T3 and summary of how these symptoms have altered on T3

and on any of the thyroid meds you have been on.

Do you know what your FT3, FT4 and TSH are on the T3? It would be helpful to

confirm that the T3 is actually being absorbed and doing something that your

pituitary can detect.

Beyond that the nutrient testing that has already been mentioned hints at one

major set of barriers (not resistance this time) that can cause any thyroid

hormone to be ineffective. Low iron, B12 or folate can do this. Hence the need

to have a thorough work up of serum iron, serum ferritin, transferrin saturation

%, B12, folate (folic acid).

Missing/low B vitamins will also result in low co-factors in the metabolic

processes. So, I usually suggest people go on a strong B complex (with 50 mg of

each of the main Bs in it), vitamin C, low dose vitamin D (e.g. around 3000 IUs

), and a good chelated mutli-mineral - just to cover the bases just in case

there is some undetected dietary factor that is missing and causing issues.

Then there is cortisol. If you have purchased an inexpensive blood pressure

metre you can see what your BP is and it will take heart rate also. Low BP,

dizziness on standing up may be indicators of low adrenal output. A good test

would be a 24 hour urinary adrenal test.

I hope you are doing this in conjunction with a doctor. Having access to proper

lab tests is important - because trying to do all of this entirely without them

is difficult at best and dangerous at worst.

Beyond all the above - if everything is OK with nutrients, cortisol etc - then

multiple divided doses is the safest way to take the T3 to begin with. Three to

five divided doses per day will keep the peak levels of T3 down and thus reduce

any risk of over-stimulation (what the docs would call T3 thyrotoxicosis). This

is no guarantee of it being safe at the kind of dosage you are using but it

helps a great deal.

Occasionally some people require huge amounts of T3 in order to overcome the

problems with cellular blocks to thyroid hormone - even up to 200 mcg T3 and

beyond.

To go there now would be foolhardy and possibly fatal if all the other avenues

have not been fully explored.

I'd be interested in hearing what has already been evaluated by your own doctor

in terms of the testing suggested above.

Cheers,

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Thanks very much for your reply, it is interesting for me. Yes I am on T3 only.

The thing is, no amount of T3 has made me feel better, not even small amounts. I

have also never taken any thyroid hormone until 8weeks ago or so, so I have no

experience on T4.

When you weren't feeling good on too much T3, did you at least have a normal

body temperature? See my temperature is still low too....

Cheers,

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Well I have convinced myself rT3 is probably not the cause of resistance. So the

only other question I have on basic thyroid physiology is how does the body

decide that it nees to convert T4 to rT3. Presumably it does this when there is

excess T3, but how does it know - how does it know that it needs to produce more

of the deiodinases that make T4->rT3 ?

Thanks,

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi ,I have checked all forms of iron, my ferritin was low but Dr P doesn't think prohibitively for the moment. And I have been supplementing since (for 5weeks). I have done the cortisol/DHEA saliva tests and it is low too, so I am on NAX. But my temperatures are stable, so I don't think cortisol is a particular issue. I have tried HC too (at various doses) with no effect, except to possibly make me more tired.I take my T3 throughout the day, avoiding iron supplements. My B12, Folate and vit-D are good, as I supplement. I supplement with B vits and vit-C and CoQ10 and essential fatty acids. I am in the process of checking my copper and magnesium, but I supplement with these anyway. I check my blood sugar and it too is normal. I eat zero sugar, refined carbs etc and eat lots of protein/fat rich food with lots of vegetables (particularly green). Grains probably only once a fortnight.Blood pressure has remained remarkably constant over the course of treatment, typically 107/75, say. My temperature, allowing for the hotter weather (which does seem to make a difference), hasn't risen significantly. For example, a 35-day average of waking temperature before treatment is 36.0 and since treatment is 36.1 degrees. However, my hands feel warmer, so I think circulation may have improved.However, my pulse is increasing and I notice my heart beating occasionally (something I haven't noticed for years). I am also dreaming more. Typical daytime pulses before treatment:60696958--68compared to the past few days:6472748071You mention no further improvement, but see I haven't seen any improvement.Any thoughts greatly appreciated!ThanksMark

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark - do you mean 'not' the cause. Because I don't understand the question

if you do.

rT3 is a natural bi-product of thyroid hormone metabolism and is produced by

everyone including healthy people. It is used to clear thyroid hormone from the

body and is used in the event of starvation and illness to lower the metabolic

rate (by increasing rT3).

The tissues that convert T4 to T3 and rT3 do take account of TSH level in the

conversion mechanism. If TSH is high then the conversion rate of T4 to T3 is

higher and rT3 lower. If TSH is suppressed then the conversion rate drops to a

minimum (but workable) level and the ratio of T3 to rT3 will reduce as more rT3

is made.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree with rT3. Even if we could identify

every single factor that went into rT3 production it would change the diagnostic

and treatment approach that is required to understand what is happening to you.

Not only do I totally believe this last statement based on what I know but

years ago I went through some of the same quests for information as you are

doing in the hope that I could just 'find the answer' and 'unravel the solution'

- you won't be able to do this. All the good stuff happens within the cells and

we can't measure any of the really interesting things. We can identify based on

medical research all the various things that can go wrong but this only gives

background info - it doesn't help resolve anything.

I've written another reply which is more focused on unravelling the real issue.

Take care,

>

> Hi ,

>

> Well I have convinced myself rT3 is probably not the cause of resistance. So

the only

[Guest guest]

I can be a bit stupid at times.

I forgot to mention something very important.

I'd like you to tell us about your symptoms now and about body temperature

(which I am sure you must take given all the reading up you have done). DO you

have a blood pressure monitor. I suggest you buy one very soon as I'd like to

know what your BP actually is.

If you know that it has been low or that you have any other symptoms of low

adrenal levels then please also post this information back here in response.

Your doctor would have taken BP when you were on T4. Do you know what it was?

What was your thyroid history - did you have TPO and Tg autoantibodies tested?

If not then these ought to be tested also.

What T4 dose did your doctor/endo put you on when you were on T4 i.e. what dose

did it take before your doc said your thyroid levels are normal (yes, sorry

people, those dreaded words that are so full of crap!).

More background on how this developed and how you ended up on T4 would be really

helpful.

Where am I going with all this?

Well, on T3 some people find that they still feel rubbish. This can sometimes be

due to low adrenal output. The adrenals are made of cells like everything else

and they won't make enough cortisol if there isn't enough T3 available.

Most people take T3 during the day - usually in 3-5 divided doses to reduce any

issues.

By the time the adrenal glands begin to really crank up and make the majority of

cortisol that they make (last four hours or so of sleep - typically 4:00 am to

8:00 am in the morning), the T3 levels in the cells are at their lowest. Some

people find that they just can't get their cortisol levels up no matter how much

T3 they take.

A lot of docs (even the more knowledgeable ones) may try and stick people on

hydrocortisone to address this but this isn't ideal because the adrenals make a

whole lot more stuff than just cortisol (I can't remember how many

corticosteroids are made but it is quite a few and there is also testosterone in

men which is also made early in the morning).

The one single totally innovative thing in my book that I've not seen written

about by anyone but me is the titration of T3 in order to correct the adrenals

for those people who have this problem. By taking the first T3 dose gradually

earlier than 8:00 am it is possible in some cases to switch the adrenals back on

without the need for any HC. When this works (and it often does) it works

naturally and wonderfully - correcting all the adrenal hormones in one go. So,

by taking a relatively small amount of T3 (15-25 mcg type levels) at 7:00 am for

a while then 6:00 am (if no improvements) then 5:00 am - all the way to 4:00 am

if needed the adrenals can often be made to work naturally and far more

efficiently than on T4.

This use of the 'main cortisol production window' has to be done very carefully

to avoid too high a cortisol level (which would be unhealthy and

counterproductive). Finding a suitable dose of T3 that is enough and fixing the

time is tricky and requires a lot of patience. It can take 6 WEEKS for the

adrenals to fully adjust.

IDeally a 24 hour urinary cortisol test will be used occasionally and at the end

of the process to provide more objective data on the effect of the change.

I have no idea if this is relevant to you or not - it might be.

Hence the idea to buy a cheap home blood pressure monitor and to consider any

indications now or in the past that might suggest an adrenal issue.

Sorry I forgot to mention this earlier. May not be relevant still.

Proper iron, B12, folate and vitamin D testing is still needed if it hasn't been

done.

Being on strong B complex etc. is also an extremely good idea as already

mentiioned.

Thoughts?

>

> Hi

[Guest guest]

Yes, even though i wasnt right i still had a normal body temp.

If you are low in temp and stable as well then your metabolism still isnt

working properly (t3 not getting into the cells).

What is your waking temp and then the usual temp in the day at lunch time and

early eve ?

As said you should look at all those other things before you blast away

with T3 or T4 for that matter.

How about trying a lot less T3 to see how you feel that day? IF you feel even

worse this can be a good sign you need the T3. If you feel the same then why

keep taking that amount of T3. Going backwards is a good way of testing out

some ideas as well as going upwards.

-

> When you weren't feeling good on too much T3, did you at least have a normal

body temperature? See my temperature is still low too....

>

> Cheers,

>

> Mark

>

[Guest guest]

Mark,

Incidentally, Doc P also doesn't know about titrating the T3 to stimulate the

adrenals - not met anyone who is aware of it. Even Lowe hasn't heard of

using the T3 this way.

Can you actually post some data Mark - symptoms, temp, BP, heart rate, any

adrenal indicators?

Are you on HC or any adrenal hormones at the same time because if you are then

these could actually be blocking the T3 rather than helping it.

The T3 has to be allowed to stimulate the adrenals and get them working rather

than throwing adrenal hormones in as well.

More info please Mark.

>

> Hi Sheila,

[Guest guest]

There's massive hype about rT3 - a lot of it is not right. It is far too

simplistic.

Sorry.

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, even though i wasnt right i still had a normal body temp.

If you are low in temp and stable as well then your metabolism still isnt

working properly (t3 not getting into the cells).

What is your waking temp and then the usual temp in the day at lunch time and

early eve ?

As said you should look at all those other things before you blast away

with T3 or T4 for that matter.

How about trying a lot less T3 to see how you feel that day? IF you feel even

worse this can be a good sign you need the T3. If you feel the same then why

keep taking that amount of T3. Going backwards is a good way of testing out

some ideas as well as going upwards.

-

> When you weren't feeling good on too much T3, did you at least have a normal

body temperature? See my temperature is still low too....

>

> Cheers,

>

> Mark

>

[Guest guest]

Actually rT3 doesn't have to be a result of resistance.

One of the world's most knowledgeable sources on thyroid resistance is Dr.

C. Lowe and he hasn't been able to find any evidence of rT3 issues in any of his

MANY thyroid resistant patients.

This is yet another Internet myth that is spread from group to group and person

to person. Yes, some individuals may have an rT3 issue but many do not. In

actual pragmatic treatment approaches rT3 is a total red herring and is of

almost no use whatsover.

This stuff was started by the 's Syndrome crowd and has spread and changed

its nature a few times.

It isn't helpful and it isn't accurate because it is not true for all people.

There are many, many causes of cellular failure of thyroid hormone. Some of

these have little or no impact on rT3 - hence Lowe's case study results which

show NO evidence of rT3 issues in resistant patients.

I hope this helps.

Being told stuff like this rT3 rubbish all the time actually doesn't help any

patient - I'm really surprised it still carries on like this. It does give some

people and some doctors an easy way of providing an answer to some individuals -

it just isn't accurate!

Cheers,

>

> Thanks . See this is the thing - Dr P says rT3 is a RESULT of thyroid

resistance n

[Guest guest]

Right so your temp is low still at 36.1C. Ideally it wants to be 36.4-36.6C on

waking.

When do you take your first T3 dose ? When you wake ?

Try taking it earlier.

I set my alarm for 6am and take my first 20mg then. At 10am i take 12.5, then i

take 20mg again at 3pm.

See if moving your first dose to 6am makes any difference. Messing around with

the timings can have a good effect and may mean you dont need to increase.

Keep experimenting and changing how you do things. It sounds like you are doing

all the vits and minerals stuff and your adrenals are prob ok.

So try and work on the dosings of T3 and see if this makes any difference.

As i said before, try taking less T3 one day to see if you miss it. IF you do

it shows you prob want more.

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark,

I've posted a bunch of other replies - good luck finding them - these threads

are hard to follow.

Please post your iron results - these can be significant regardless of who tells

you they aren't.

Check all the other replies and then provide the info in a single message if you

can.

In summary I think I've asked for:

1. Iron results (here) - really important this. Have you had all the ones I

mentioned done? Ferritin can look fine sometimes in some cases and so

transferrin saturation % is also needed along with serum ferritin and serum

iron. I still want to see the ferritin result.

2. you've said B12, folate, D are all good - excellent

3. Not sure if you're on adrenal meds.

4. I'd like more info on symptoms - weight gain/loss, weakness, dizziness,

energy levels, mental acuity, sense of anxiety/tension, hair loss, etc and

whatever are the biggest issues for you.

5. Thyroid history - T4 history, autoantibodies, how much T4 did it take to

normalis TSH previously.

6. How are you titrating the T3 exactly - size of each dose and timing.

Temp is low, BP could be low for you but could be OK - need to see symptoms to

see if BP could be part of an adrenal issue.

Anything else that you can think of is relevant.

You are barking up the wrong tree with all the rT3 stuff. It is unlikely to be

relevant and almost useless even if it was in arriving at a solution.

I can see several possible issues:

1. iron - regardless of whether you've been told its OK or not.

2. adrenals - either because you are on some adrenal meds which are now actually

blocking the T3 or because the T3 needs to be used differently to drive the

adrenals harder (see other message).

3. The T3 dosage needs to be much higher. Some people have very severe cellular

issues - I call it 'impaired cellular response to thyroid hormone'. This latter

description includes issues like resistance and many other things that can go

wrong within the cells e.g. problems with transporter proteins carrying the

thyroid hormone into the cells, cytokines or other immune system chemicals that

block the thyroid receptors, other amines that also cause hypometabolism,

receptor damage - the list is large and most don't affect rT3 to any noticeable

degree. All of this info is in my book incidentally.

Some people need 140, 170, 200, even 250-300 mcgs of T3 before the carpet

bombing of the cells is sufficient to get over the cellular issues.

RAISING THE T3 DOSAGE TO A HIGH LEVEL IS THE VERY LAST THING TO BE DONE and ONLY

AFTER ALL OTHER EXPLANATIONS HAVE BEEN RULES OUT. When this route is finally

started then it needs to be done extraordinarily carefully and with constant

checking of heart rate, BP, temp, symptoms and occasional checks on cortisol (24

hour urinary cortisol).

If this is started too soon and it is the wrong approach then it could be

extremely dangerous and possibly fatal.

So, more info dear sir if you don't mind.

Cheers,

>

> Hi ,

>

> I have checked all forms of iron, my ferritin was low but Dr P doesn't

> think prohibitively for the moment. And I have been supplementing since

> (for 5weeks). I have done the cortisol/DHEA saliva tests and it is low

> too, so I am on NAX. But my temperatures are stable, so I don't think

> cortisol is a particular issue. I have tried HC too (at various doses)

> with no effect, except to possibly make me more tired.

>

> I take my T3 throughout the day, avoiding iron supplements. My B12,

> Folate and vit-D are good, as I supplement. I supplement with B vits and

> vit-C and CoQ10 and essential fatty acids. I am in the process of

> checking my copper and magnesium, but I supplement with these anyway. I

> check my blood sugar and it too is normal. I eat zero sugar, refined

> carbs etc and eat lots of protein/fat rich food with lots of vegetables

> (particularly green). Grains probably only once a fortnight.

>

>

[Guest guest]

Also how did your problems start?

Did it start with conventional Hashi's or through some other route (virus etc.).

The history often reveals a lot.

Thanks,

>

> Hi ,

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I take it about 9:30am, 25mcg, then 12.5mcg at 12:00,13:00,14:00, then my iron

two hours later, then 12.5mcg at 20:00 then 12.5mcg at 22:00 before bed.

Thanks for those ideas, I will try taking 25mcg when I first wake (at 5am).

Cheers,

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

I did mean " not " the cause because if people continue to need high amounts of T3

once they've cleared the rT3, it can't be the rT3 that was causing the

resistance...

But you have answered my question, thanks! It is interesting that it occurs in

the cells and relies on TSH.

Cheers,

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi ,I really appreciate the comprehensive reply, thankyou. I will try to provide as much info now as I think is relevant. Firstly here are my latest blood results which are a month old:BIOCHEMISTRYSODIUM 142 mmol/L 135 - 145POTASSIUM 4.6 mmol/L 3.5 - 5.1CHLORIDE 101 mmol/L 98 - 107BICARBONATE 29 mmol/l 22 - 29UREA 6.9 mmol/L 1.7 - 8.3CREATININE 71 umol/L 66 - 112estimated GFR >90BILIRUBIN 11 umol/L 0 - 20ALKALINE PHOSPHATASE 85 IU/L 40 - 129ASPARTATE TRANSFERASE 20 IU/L 0 - 37ALANINE TRANSFERASE 26 IU/L 10 - 50LDH *131 IU/L 135 - 225CK 60 IU/L 38 - 204GAMMA GT 12 IU/L 10 - 71TOTAL PROTEIN 69 g/L 63 - 83ALBUMIN 46 g/L 34 - 50GLOBULIN 23 g/L 19 - 35CALCIUM 2.54 mmol/L 2.15 - 2.55Corrected Calcium 2.47 mmol/L 2.15 - 2.55PHOSPHATE 1.22 mmol/L 0.87 - 1.45URIC ACID 313 umol/L 266 - 474RANDOM BLOOD GLUCOSE (FL) 4.0 mmol/L 3.5 - 7.9TRIGLYCERIDES 0.5 mmol/L < 2.3CHOLESTEROL 3.5 mmol/L Optimum <5.0HDL CHOLESTEROL *1.6 mmol/L 0.9 - 1.5HDL % of total 46 % 20 and overLDL CHOLESTEROL 1.7 mmol/L Up to 3.0IRON 20.0 umol/L 10.6 - 28.3T.I.B.C 62 umol/L 41 - 77TRANSFERRIN SATURATION 32 % 20 - 55FERRITIN 31 ug/L 30 - 400ENDOCRINOLOGYD.H.E.A. Sulphate 3.6 umol/L 0.44 - 13.4SPECIAL PATHOLOGYAldosterone - SERUM/PLASMA 263 pmol/lReference range:Resting < 444 pmol/lUpright 111 - 860 pmol/lA few weeks prior to this (about 2months ago) I had my thyroid tested:ENDOCRINOLOGYTHYROID PROFILE 2TOTAL THYROXINE(T4) 118 nmol/L 59 - 154THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 2.00 mIU/L 0.27 - 4.2FREE THYROXINE 20.0 pmol/l 12.0 - 22.0FREE T3 5.0 pmol/L 3.1 - 6.8IMMUNOLOGYTHYROID ANTIBODIESThyroglobulin Antibody 14.5 IU/mL 0-115(Negative)Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 12.6 IU/mL <34 (Negative)SPECIAL PATHOLOGYREVERSE T3 *0.42 ug/l 0.09 - 0.35Prior to these, my thyroid blood tests (T4,T3,TSH) have always been in the centre of the reference ranges. As I say last time I had my B12, Vit-D and Folate checked they were fine, and I am supplementing anyway. I am also supplementing with Copper and Magnesium and Vit A while I arrange blood tests (and have been for a month or so).Now my history. It all started slowly so I can't put a date on it but symptoms really going back 10years, firstly facial edema (not severe but definitely noticeable to me). Didn't realise this was even a "symptom". Then about 8 years ago started to get stomach bloating, also didn't realise this was a symptoms (thought I was getting fat, though it never occured to me that "fat" doesn't disappear overnight and start again when you start eating the next day). Then about 3 years ago increasingly fatigued as I began 4hours commuting everday including cycling about 3hours in all weather etc. and working every working hour of every day that I wasn't cycling or in the gym, even Christmas Day. About 3 years ago started to notice that being at the gym I wasn't improving my fitness and I was always tired afterwards. Thought I was unfit. About 4 years ago I started getting really cold in winter, always with a scarf on indoors and sitting against the radiator. The skin on my face became really dry, constant dry skin apparent there. About 2 years ago everthing became worse and I really new something was wrong. The "fatigue" that had been creeping up over the course of about a year became more apparent and I couldn't think straight or remember things, I had lots of tingling in my toes and fingers, and I went to the doctors. They ran a bunch of tests, I had low vit-B12 despite supplementation so knew I had a deficiency and immediately began supplementing heavily. A lot of the brain-fog and tingling sensations cleared up shortly afterwards. Put the fatigue slowly became worse over the past two years. Other symptoms during the past 3 years or so were:Constipation (relieved with magnesium), dry eyes, aching joints, aching feet, yellowing skin on feet. I should also say depression since my teens, which has increased over the passt two years.So I got a 24hr saliva done and found adrenal fatigue but DHEA fine. My practitioner started me on Adrenal Dynamite for 6months to no affect. About 3 months ago I got another one done, here are the results:Cortisol:9.5 12-225.0 5.0-9.04.6 3.0-7.01.5 1.0-3.0DHEA mean 0.2 0.4-1.47I also got a stool test done due to the bloating, nothing significant except low Secretary-IgA and digestive enzymes slightly down. No intolerances etc. I tried gluten-free for a month, no difference. Candida negative.Anyway, the doctors said my thyroid was fine because of the blood tests and said I had CFS. I knew CFS didn't exist and became determined to find out what it really was. All of my symptoms screamed thyroid but my tests were always bang in the middle of the reference ranges, but I tried to find out as much ass I could about thyroid function, coming finally across Dr P's book. In it he stated he has never known the combination of symptoms with a low basal temperature to fail as a reliable diagnostic. So I checked my basal temperature and it was 35.8-36.0. This confirmed to me my strong suspicion, and I ended up going to see Dr P. He diagnosed hypothyroid without any doubt, probably peripheral resistance. Now I am here 87.5mcg of T3 later. I can say I have only felt more fatigued since beginning the T3, and the only indication of change is that I now have warm hands and a somewhat higher pulse (more than 70 ish rather than less than 70 ish).I have also noticed increased hair loss over the past 2-3months. From what I gather you will probably identify my low ferritin as the probable culprit, though I have heard many times that this leads to anxiety symptoms, which I haven't had. I have been supplementing 2x325mcg of Ferrous Sulphate for the past 40 days. I have stopped today and intend to get it tested over the next week at some point.I knew Adrenal Dynamite had not helped so I decied to try HC over the course of a month, around 30mg a day, along with 3 NAX in the morning. This made me more more fatigued, especially in the afternoons. So I became concerned that the HC I was taking was either leading to further suppression, or that I was taking too much. I tried lowering the dose to no avail and adjusting the timing. I decided to have another saliva test done. I stopped taking HC for 1 week but continued the NAX and did the salivs test. I realise this is not a good indicator of my endogenous production of cortisol but I was specifically interested in knowing what my levels were like while I was still feeling the extra fatigue. Here are the results:18.7 12-227.0 5.0-9.06.2 3.0-7.01.6 1.0-3.0DHEA unchanged. Now when I did this test I was still feeling the extra fatigue, so from the test I concluded it was probably not due to extra suppression of cortisol or too much. This extra fatigue has abated somewhat a month later since stopping all HC. The last couple of days out of curiosity I have taken a little HC to no effect.Meanwhile Dr P believes I need a further increase to 100mcg. I heed your

warnings, and am obsessively checking for pulse and blood pressure changes, as well as monitoring for hyper symptoms. I can almost tell the time by my temperature.

My sisters and mother also have multiple classic symptoms (though not severe), I have had them check their basal temperature and they are all consistently below 36.5 degrees.

I am very much looking forward to your book being published, it sounds like it will be more comprehensive in the area of thyroid resistance than other books I have been able to find.I hope this is enough to go on? A reminder of some numbers: pulse before starting T3 always between 60 and 70, pulse since reaching 75mcg of T3 (when I began to feel my heart beat again) usually more than 70. BP constant over past few months at about 112/75 and basal temps 35-day averages before starting T3 was 36.0 now it's up to 36.1 degrees. Here are my average (morn, afternoon,evening) temps for the past 40days or so (last entry being yesterday):36.3636--35.997336.063936.3636--------36.197136.163836.030636.230436.163836.0306--36.197135.997336.2304--36.29736.163836.197136.097236.230436.1638--36.2304--36.29736.263736.197136.430236.463536.263736.330336.263736.263736.29736.2637--36.263736.097236.263736.430236.263736.330336.363636.163836.330336.263736.29736.330336.163836.2304--36.3969--36.363636.330336.363636.230436.3303----36.330336.496836.396936.463536.463536.29736.463536.3303So possibly some increase over the past few days, but the weather has been hotter.Thanks!Mark

[Guest guest]

Ok, i would change how you dose then, based on a new start time.

Do 25 at 5am like you stated (wake up time)

Then 12.5 every 3 h's. So 8am/11am/2pm/5pm/8pm.

If things start to work out a bit better you can then scratch the last dose out.

you could even stretch some times out, so you take your last dose at bedtime.

Let us know on this thread how you get on tomorrow.

>

> Hi ,

>

> I take it about 9:30am, 25mcg, then 12.5mcg at 12:00,13:00,14:00, then my iron

two hours later, then 12.5mcg at 20:00 then 12.5mcg at 22:00 before bed.

>

> Thanks for those ideas, I will try taking 25mcg when I first wake (at 5am).

>

> Cheers,

>

> Mark

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

It seems to me I'm not likely to get relief from my multiple symptoms until I

get my body temp up, because only then will I know the hormone is getting into

my cells.

My typical temps are something like:

02:30 - 35.8

05:00 - 36.1

06:00 - 36.2

08:00 - 36.4

11:00 - 36.4

15:00 - 36.5

17:00 - 36.6

21:00 - 36.5

22:00 - 36.4

I will probably try stopping the dose one day as you suggest, thanks for the

idea.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Thanks , this is what I suspected. I really look forward to your book!

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

A very interesting post. I have wondered why, if T3 needs cortisol to get into

cells, people do not dose their T3 to follow the natural rise and fall in

cortisol. Well you seem to be suggesting just that!

I see you advise beginning at 7:00am and working back to 04:00 if no change is

found. Is this because people typically wake up at 07:00? I typically wake up

earlier - so is there no reason I could not take my first dose earlier (as long

as it is not before 04:00), say at 05:00?

Does it make sense to dose relatively heavily in the morning and reduce

throughout the day until the last dose is in the afternoon?

Thanks,

Mark

>

> I can be a bit stupid at times.

>

> I forgot to mention something very important.

>

> I'd like you to tell us about your symptoms now and about body temperature

(which I am sure you must take given all the reading up you have done).

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

The conversion occurs in specialised collections of cells in the liver, kidneys

and other tiisues - not all cells. The liver especially has large collections of

these specialised cells.

I'm still not sure you've found all my replies because I asked a ton of

questions and provided a lot of info which I'm sure you'll have some thoughts

on.

Still want to see the iron numbers. Still want to know that the transferrin

saturation %, serum ferritin and serum iron have all been done. Serum ferritin

and serum iron can look normal in some cases but the transferrin saturation %

can be the clincher and reveal low iron levels.

Check through for all my replies - this site is hard to work through all the

messages and be sure you've found them all.

Cheers,

paul

>

[Guest guest]

Just to emphasise, I have never been on T4 or any other form of hormone therapy

as my blood tests have always been normal (middle of reference ranges). The

first time I took thyroid hormone was about 45days ago, starting on T3, after it

was advised by Dr P.

[Guest guest]

OK,

MARK - READ THIS.

Some people seem to think that taking 12.5 mcg of T3 is the right way to take

it.

They are about as deluded as you can get - read WRONG for this.

Your 12.5s are likely to be about as useful as dropping them in the bin.

I'm now NOT SURPRISED the T3 isn't working.

If someone has cellular levels of issues with thyroid hormone then the

individual doses of T3 need to generate a wave of T3 that is BIG ENOUGH to

overcome the issues and saturate the receptors with enough T3 to do the job.

After your 25 the rest is a waste of money. Again, my book explains this in

about as much detail as anyone would need.

You can't easily 'top up' T3 with extra bits. You have to view is as providing

waves of T3 each of which are so PERFECTLY TITRATED that they arrive at the

cells and make them work without causing tissue over stimulation.

You need to go back to drawing board and quickly.

Suggest that you consider three of four T3 doses per day each of which is in the

20-25 region.. Starting at 7:00 or 8:00 am for the first one and then midday ish

(11:00- 11:30 is OK) and then 4:00-5:00 pm ish. YOUR WAVES NEED TO BE MUCH

BIGGER!!!!!!!!!

Your total may not need to be bigger.

We can do some of this offline if this gets too prescriptive.

I'd still like to have answers to my other questions but it is not surprising

you've had little success. This 12.5 mcg fixation is plain wrong and I hope to

completely change the way some doctors are trying to get people to use T3 as a

result of the book.

Cheers,

>

> Hi ,

>

> I take it about 9:30am, 25mcg, then 12.5mcg at 12:00,13:00,14:00, then my iron

two hours later, then 12.5mcg at 20:00 then 12.5mcg at 22:00 before bed.

>

[Guest guest]

is right about using T3 to drive the adrenals - it works well for him and I

told him about it!!!!!!

However, you don't need to do this yet. What you need to do is to increase the

size of individual T3 doses until they actually start to work.

A better method would be to revise your method. Use 3 doses per day to begin.

Increase the first one until it begins to work - then you know how big your wave

needs to be. I can say more offline because this is getting a bit prescriptive.

You've basically been using the T3 incorrectly.

Cheers,

>

> Hi ,

>