Re: basic thyroid hormone questions - maybe for ?

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark,

In general adjusting to stimulate cortisol should only be done if there is data

that suggests that it is actually needed.

A 24 hour urinary cortisol test and actual low adrenal symptoms. It is foolhardy

to do it otherwise.

I need it and I take my first T3 around 4:30 am and then go back to sleep and

get up around 8:00 - 8:30 am.

You ought not to be considering doing this until the T3 is titrated as optimally

as possible first and then you have assessed the adrenal status - this is good

general advice for anyone using T3.

The tapering of T3 doses is also a very personal thing. Some people need it and

others don't.

>

> Hi ,

>

>

[Guest guest]

Re : SHBG again,

The SHBG range is also wide and there is no correlation to ideal cellular levels

of T3 during the day.

SHBG adjusts very slowly over days and weeks as the liver adjusts its production

of it.

The T3 levels in the serum and cells fluctuates rapidly.

The type of useful measure we need to determine whether a T3 dosage was correct

would need to provide a profile over 24 hours of actual cellular regulation by

thyroid hormone.

Some kind of average level might do. Some kind of level of cellular regulation

of thyroid hormone during a few hours in the waking day might do. But be aware

the level of T3 WILL fluctuate. We are only using T3 on its own because

something has gone badly wrong. It is not an ideal hormone to use and the

fluctuations of T3 make it extraordinarily difficult to imagine how research

will generate useful lab tests to determine whether the T3 dosage is good or

bad.

SHBG is altered slowly and as I said the range is so wide I can't even begin to

imagine how it could be used even for an individual who had SHBG plotted against

T3 dosages.

No - its a another bogus lab test I'm afraid.

>

> Hi

>

>

[Guest guest]

These replies only apply to people either just on T3 or a 'fair bit' of T3 + T4.

If someone was on T4 or Armour and it was working then FT4 and FT3 and

symptoms/signs would be a good indicator for cellular activity of thyroid

hormone.

Only if someone has HAD to use T3 in decent amounts to overcome impaired

cellular response to thyroid hormone would no existing laboratory test be of use

in determining the correct T3 dosage.

In the above 'fair bit' is deliberately vague because no studies have been done

to give any guidance on where the lab tests break down and where they don't.

Anyone on just T3 is stuffed though. No problems though - there are perfectly

adequate ways of managing this with symptoms and signs until the researchers

finally get something useful.

>

> Hi

>

[Guest guest]

So how can we persuade our doctors that if our blood tests show

sufficient levels of thyroid hormone in the blood, yet we still continue with symptoms

of hypothyroidism, that we might be suffering with peripheral resistance to

thyroid hormone at the cellular level? This is where everything comes crashing

down and doctors refuse to even acknowledge such a condition even exists - and

if there are no tests to prove it, we are going to continue to be on a sticky

wicket!

Luv - Sheila

SHBG is altered slowly and as I said the range is so wide I can't even begin to

imagine how it could be used even for an individual who had SHBG plotted

against T3 dosages.

No - its a another bogus lab test I'm afraid.

_,_._,___

[Guest guest]

I realise this and let members know that thyroid function

blood test results are pretty useless for anybody taking any form of T3, either

synthetic or natural. We need to go by symptoms, signs, temperatures, BP,

heart-rate and results of other specific mineral/vitamin tests….but tell

that to the average NHS doctor.

Luv - Sheila

These replies only apply to people either just

on T3 or a 'fair bit' of T3 + T4.

If someone was on T4 or Armour and it was working then FT4 and FT3 and

symptoms/signs would be a good indicator for cellular activity of thyroid

hormone.

Only if someone has HAD to use T3 in decent amounts to overcome impaired

cellular response to thyroid hormone would no existing laboratory test be of

use in determining the correct T3 dosage.

In the above 'fair bit' is deliberately vague because no studies have been done

to give any guidance on where the lab tests break down and where they don't.

Anyone on just T3 is stuffed though. No problems though - there are perfectly

adequate ways of managing this with symptoms and signs until the researchers

finally get something useful.

>

> Hi

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark,

I'm the chap who mentioned he'd chatted to who takes 80mcg T3 first thing

and 60 mcg T3 late afternoon and have done for the last 10 years. I had to go to

420 mcg of T3 each day before my body temperature finally hit 37C, we are all

different and you must go by your own signs and symptoms as you alter the

dosage. Don't worry too much about the science right now, there are so many

possible causes of thyroid resistance, and so much that isn't understood, that

there is a danger that this would sidetrack you away from the business of

getting better and getting on with your life. I have a PhD in Biochemistry but

I'm only just starting to really work my way through research papers and get the

bit between my teeth 12 years after I was diagnosed. If you have any questions,

if I can help in any way, just ask.

>

> Hi ,

>

> Posts coming in thick and fast - thanks!

>

> >

[Guest guest]

Yes,

It is an issue Sheila. The average doctor or endo will not listen at the moment.

If they did then many of us wouldn't ever need to use a forum.

I'm hoping my book has a benefit - at least in communicating some of this to

those patients who are stuck with this type of problem.

There is no laboratory test that these patients can ask for that will neatly get

them out of the mess. A list of 'on-side doctors and endos' that will hopefully

develop over time to be larger and more informative in terms of which ones

understand these issues and which ones prescribe trials of what hormones may

help also.

>

> I realise this and let members know that thyroid function blood test

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila , . When I started T3 I found that remaining symptoms some of

which are visible greatly improved . My swollen tongue and swollen ankles were

easily seen and there was great improvement.The removal of these symptoms should

be enough for any doctor if not why not? There is at least one symptom that is

measurable . I was very ill before treatment, if I sat in a chair I fell asleep

, I had to sit up in bed to breathe at night and I could not fill my lungs . {I

had never smoked ,had asthma or had problems before] I insisted that my

breathing was tested . If you remember a recent news article about newborn

babies - it is the oxygen in the blood {SATS] that shows something is wrong -I

found it also applied to me [and I am sure that I am not the only one ] I was

told I was not breathing hard enough in the test however the SATS do not lie .

This is my case, but you may be interested to know that with T4 as my only

regular medication this dire situation was reversed . T4 did not solve

everything so I now take T3 . Hope this will help

[Guest guest]

>

> So how can we persuade our doctors that if our blood tests show sufficient

> levels of thyroid hormone in the blood

I would like to draw your attention to the following study:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/82/3/771 - and

According to a recent statement:

" The ultimate test of whether a patient is experiencing the effects of too much

or to little thyroid hormone is not the measurement of hormone concentration in

the blood but the effect of thyroid hormones on the peripheral tissues "

from-Greenspan FS, Rapoport B. 1991 Tests of thyroid function. In: Greenspan FS,

ed. Basic and clinical endocrinology, 3rd ed. London: Appleton & Lange, Prentice

Hall International; 211.

In the first study is a reference to an obsolete(?) test - the ankle reflex

relaxation time. This test together with total cholesterol should give the

doctor a fair judgement of the level of T3 in the cells.

Regards Henrik

[Guest guest]

Dear Sheila

ATP profiles

The first part of the test is called "ATP profiles" and has been developed by Dr McLaren- at Biolab in London. It measures the rate at which ATP is recycled in cells and because production of ATP is highly dependent on magnesium status so the first part of the test studies this aspect.

from the section of 's Wiki on Mitchondrial Function Tests

Bob

sorry about memory deficit for names etc

>> Do you know what the test is called Bob?> > Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

In case you have not already seen the information below, I am

posting it again so you can check through all of this by way of a process of

elimination in case you might have any of these associated conditions.

There are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated

with thyroid disease that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells,

where it does its work. I mention these over and over and over again - ad

nauseum - people must be bored with the same old, same old but as each new

member joins us, they need to know. The main condition responsible for stopping

thyroid hormone from working, is, quite simply, a patients thyroxine dose is

too low because the doctor or consultant refuses to increase it, because the

serum thyroid function test results appear OK. Sometimes, the thyroxine dose is

too high, yet patients still don't feel well. They continue to suffer. Some

reasons for this:

They may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production

of T4, its conversion to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount

of adrenal hormones, notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut

production down, however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not

responding properly, and provision of cortisone usually switches it on

again. But sometimes it doesn’t. If the illness has been

going on for a long time, the enzyme seems to fail. This conversion

failure (inexplicably denied by many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine

builds up, unconverted. So it doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis

results. This makes the patient feel quite unwell, toxic, often with

palpitations and chest pain. If provision of adrenal support doesn’t

remedy the situation, the final solution is the use of the active thyroid hormone,

already converted, T3 - either synthetic or natural

Then, we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida

albicans, a yeast, which causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body,

invades the lining of the lower part of the small intestine and the large

intestine. Here, the candida sets up residence in the warmth and the

dark, and demands to be fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make

you suffer terrible sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can

cause very many symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which

interfere with the uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the

levels - which we usually test for - can be very high, and make successful

treatment difficult to achieve until adequately treated.

Then there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being

hypothyroid for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms

which permit the binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3

won’t go in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support

and adequate vitamins and minerals, the receptors do come on line again.

But this can be quite a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the

dose up gradually.

And then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy

is allergy to gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by

the body, by a process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the

thyroperoxidase enzyme, (which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So

allergy to bread can make you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies

with this kind of effect, but information on these is scanty. Certainly

allergic response to certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil

thyroid production and uptake.

Then we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine

system is linked; each part of it needs the other parts to be operating

normally to work properly. An example of this we have seen already, with

cortisone. But another example is the operation of sex hormones.

The imbalance that occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and

a relative dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen

dominance downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid

hormones. This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause;

the symptoms ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with

extra oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone

most especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,

improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

Then, we must never forget the possibility of mercury poisoning

(through amalgam fillings) - low levels of ferritin, vitamin B12, vitamin D3,

magnesium, folate, copper and zinc - all of which, if low, stop the thyroid

hormone from being utilised by the cells - these have to be treated. Should

your GP or endocrinologist try to tell you that there is no association between

low levels of these specific minerals and vitamins and low thyroid status,

print off the information at the bottom of this message to show him just some

of the references to research/studies to show that there is.***

As Dr Peatfield says " When you have been quite unwell for a

long time, all these problems have to be dealt with; and since each may affect

the other, it all has to be done rather carefully.

Contrary to cherished beliefs by much of the medical establishment,

the correction of a thyroid deficiency state has a number of complexities and

variables, which make the treatment usually quite specific for each

person. The balancing of these variables is as much up to you as to me

– which is why a check of morning, day and evening temperatures and pulse

rates, together with symptoms, good and bad, can be so helpful.

Many of you have been ill for a long time, either because you

have not been diagnosed, or the treatment leaves you still quite unwell.

Those of you who have relatively mild hypothyroidism, and have been diagnosed

relatively quickly, may well respond to synthetic thyroxine, the standard

treatment. I am therefore unlikely to see you; since if the thyroxine

proves satisfactory in use, it is merely a question of dosage.

For many of you, the outstanding problem is not that the

diagnosis has not been made – although, extraordinarily, this is

disgracefully common – but that is has, and the thyroxine treatment

doesn’t work. The dose has been altered up and down, and clinical

improvement is variable and doesn’t last, in spite of blood tests, which

say you are perfectly all right (and therefore you are actually depressed and

need this fine antidepressant).

The above problems must be eliminated if thyroid hormone isn't

working for you.

Should your GP or endocrinologist tell you that there is no

connection between these minerals or vitamin levels and hypothyroidism, then

copy the following links out to show him/her

Good luck!

***Low iron/ferritin: Iron deficiency is shown to

significantly reduce T4 to T3 conversion, increase reverse T3 levels, and block

the thermogenic (metabolism boosting) properties of thyroid hormone (1-4).

Thus, iron deficiency, as indicated by an iron saturation below 25 or a

ferritin below 70, will result in diminished intracellular T3 levels.

Additionally, T4 should not be considered adequate thyroid replacement if iron

deficiency is present (1-4)).

1.

Dillman E, Gale C, Green W, et al.

Hypothermia in iron deficiency due to altered triiodithyroidine metabolism.

Regulatory, Integrative and Comparative Physiology 1980;239(5):377-R381.

2.

SM, PE, Lukaski HC. In vitro

hepatic thyroid hormone deiodination in iron-deficient rats: effect of dietary

fat. Life Sci 1993;53(8):603-9.

3.

Zimmermann MB, Köhrle J. The Impact of Iron

and Selenium Deficiencies on Iodine and Thyroid Metabolism: Biochemistry and

Relevance to Public Health. Thyroid 2002;12(10): 867-78.

4.

Beard J, tobin B, Green W. Evidence for

Thyroid Hormone Deficiency in Iron-Deficient Anemic Rats. J. Nutr.

1989;119:772-778.

Low vitamin B12: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18655403

Low vitamin D3: http://www.eje-online.org/cgi/content/abstract/113/3/329

and http://www.goodhormonehealth.com/VitaminD.pdf

Low magnesium: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC292768/pdf/jcinvest00264-0105.pdf

Low folate: http://www.clinchem.org/cgi/content/full/47/9/1738

and http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs/10.1089/thy.1999.9.1163

Low  copper http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.drlwilson.com/articles/copper_toxicity_syndrome.htm

http://www.ithyroid.com/copper.htm

http://www.rjpbcs.com/pdf/2011_2(2)/68.pdf

http://ajplegacy.physiology.org/content/171/3/652.extract

Low zinc:http://www.istanbul.edu.tr/ffdbiyo/current4/07%20Iham%20AM%C4%B0R.pdf

and http://articles.webraydian.com/article1648-Role_of_Zinc_and_Copper_in_Effective_Thyroid_Function.html

Ferritin levels for women need to be

between 100 and 130 for women (for men around between 150 and 170)

Vitamin B12 needs to be at the top of the

range.

D3 levels need to be about 50.

Magnesium levels need to be at the top of

the range, it's one thing that gets missed.

I'm the chap who mentioned he'd chatted to who takes 80mcg T3 first thing

and 60 mcg T3 late afternoon and have done for the last 10 years. I had to go

to 420 mcg of T3 each day before my body temperature finally hit 37C, we are

all different and you must go by your own signs and symptoms as you alter the

dosage. Don't worry too much about the science right now, there are so many

possible causes of thyroid resistance, and so much that isn't understood, that

there is a danger that this would sidetrack you away from the business of

getting better and getting on with your life. I have a PhD in Biochemistry but

I'm only just starting to really work my way through research papers and get

the bit between my teeth 12 years after I was diagnosed. If you have any

questions, if I can help in any way, just ask.

__

[Guest guest]

If one believes, as I do, that all of this suffering was created and maintained

by a conspiracy, for whatever motive, to not use T3-containing therapies, then

the lack of meaningful tests that would indicate post thyroid function

deficiencies make sense in an unethical, even depraved, way.

Consider this: Hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism are " duals. " They are

opposites in similar ways. But why is T3 routinely measured for hyper whiled it

is not for hypo. It makes no sense.

My wife has a friend who is her metabolic opposite. While my wife does not feel

good and has no symptoms of hyperthyroidism unless her TSH is near zero, her

friend does not feel good unless her TSH is greater than 60, yet she has no

symptoms of hypothyroidism. Thyroidologists can not explain either case.

However, once one considers the potential variation in efficiencies of post

thyroid functions, there is intellectual room for these cases to be rational.

If one considers euthyroid (your thyroid gland is OK) hypometabolism (but you

are dragging about anyway) and considers the metabolic tests that test it, then

you might have a chance, a start. However, endocrinologists are so stuck on the

thyroid gland, that they do not accept any metabolic tests.

Of course, there is the ever reoccurring language problem, also, I believe is

part of the conspiracy or just plain sloth. There are two definitions for

" hypothyroidism. " The proper and narrow one implicates only the thyroid gland.

The improper and broad one, the one that patients really understand, implicates

low levels of thyroid hormones in the body, which in turn, implicates post

thyroid functional deficiency as well as thyroid function deficiency.

Obviously, these definitions, which are used interchangeably, are

physiologically different and require different testing protocols. However,

medicine only concentrates on the proper narrow definition except to confuse the

patients and doctors.

The 1990 demand by the Institute of Medicine for guidelines to be unambiguous

has been ignored. The subsequent demand by the American Association of Clinical

Endocrinologists that guidelines should contain definitions of critical terms

has been ignored.

So what are thyroid hormones? In some contexts thyroid hormone refers to only

T4. In others it is T4 or T3. And in still others it is any hormone that

contains iodine, T1, T2, T3, or T4. Isn't this just ripe for confusion? Why is

there such confusion when there are admonitions having life and death

consequences? It is all quite simple. The masters of medicine and the emirs of

endocrinology do not face any down side for the systematic abuse of patients

that they might produce by their errors, intentional or unintentional.

It has been more than 60 years since medical practice has been warned of

inadequate therapy with T4-only. Yet, this practice not only persists, it has

been institutionalized by the Royal College of Physicians and the British

Thyroid Association and the American Association of Clinical Endocrinologists

and the American Thyroid Associations, etc., etc.

Just what will it take to change this half-century of systematic and

institutionalized abuse? The realization that being nice and wringing ones

hands is not going to get medical justice will be a good start. Otherwise, we

will be hoping that these endocrinologists will find themselves in the depths of

hell as we die wishing our lives had been better.

Have a great day,

>

> So how can we persuade our doctors that if our blood tests show sufficient

> levels of thyroid hormone in the blood, yet we still continue with symptoms

> of hypothyroidism, that we might be suffering with peripheral resistance to

> thyroid hormone at the cellular level? This is where everything comes

> crashing down and doctors refuse to even acknowledge such a condition even

> exists - and if there are no tests to prove it, we are going to continue to

> be on a sticky wicket!

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

> SHBG is altered slowly and as I said the range is so wide I can't even begin

> to imagine how it could be used even for an individual who had SHBG plotted

> against T3 dosages.

>

> No - its a another bogus lab test I'm afraid.

>

>

>

>

>

>

> _,_._,___

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this

Henrik. Dr Peatfield ALWAYS uses the Achilles Tendon Reflex Test -

a slow response is the ONLY sign that is SPECIFIC to low levels of thyroid

hormone - and I had actually forgotten about this. This is something we

need to publicise as much as we can (this needs to be in all the books ever

written about thyroid disease to get it through to the powers that be). At one

time, before the creation of the serum thyroid function tests, doctors ALWAYS

took into account high cholesterol levels too. Why do doctors forget about

these.

Luv - Sheila

I would like to draw your attention to the following study:

http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/82/3/771

- and

According to a recent statement:

" The ultimate test of whether a patient is experiencing the effects of too

much or to little thyroid hormone is not the measurement of hormone

concentration in the blood but the effect of thyroid hormones on the peripheral

tissues "

from-Greenspan FS, Rapoport B. 1991 Tests of thyroid function. In: Greenspan

FS, ed. Basic and clinical endocrinology, 3rd ed. London: Appleton & Lange,

Prentice Hall International; 211.

In the first study is a reference to an obsolete(?) test - the ankle reflex

relaxation time. This test together with total cholesterol should give the

doctor a fair judgement of the level of T3 in the cells.

Regards Henrik

[Guest guest]

Just spoken to Mark.

He told me that he was more tired than normal yesterday on two larger doses of

T3 (37.5 mcgs in each dose).

He is going to explore higher doses of T3 in the first dose to see if it is a

thyroid hormone resistance issue. Taking care to check blood pressure, heart

rate etc.

He has tried 50 mcg T3 this morning at 7:00am - no effects at all yet.

My advice for someone in Mark's situation has been to carefully keep an eye on

the BP, heart rate especially. Generally, when extreme impaired cellular

response to thyroid hormone is suspected people are usually advised to to focus

on one dose of T3 and increase it carefully to explore the response and learn

more about the condition ( Lowe only takes one dose of T3 a day - 150 mcg

all at once).

This is quite different to people with a low or moderate impaired response to

thyroid hormone where 3-5 more moderate T3 doses may be titrated quite easily.

The other possibility I've discussed with Mark is iron, B12, folate (B12 won't

work without folic acid).

Lowe only takes one dose of T3 a day - 150 mcg all at once.

I suspect that Mark's issues are either:

1. a major issue with resistance OR

2. something else - nutrient issue as above or something more obscure like a

mitochondrial issue.

It could all be down to iron but this can take months and months to resolve. So,

if Mark does ever get his T3 up to 100 or 150 mcg of T3 in dose one with no

response then it would probably be sensible to go back at that stage to his

original regime with multiple smaller doses (perhaps several 25s or 12.5s or

in-between) and waiting for the iron to rise. At least this is what I suspect a

lot of people would do.

I've asked Mark to give us all an occasional update now on progress because this

process will go on for some time.

[Guest guest]

Many thanks for keeping us all updated on Mark's progress .

If this is an iron/B12 deficiency issue, it may help Mark if his doctor will

give him a course of injections rather than tablets or other medicines.

Luv - Sheila

The other possibility I've discussed with Mark is iron, B12, folate (B12 won't

work without folic acid).

Lowe only takes one dose of T3 a day - 150 mcg all at once.

I suspect that Mark's issues are either:

1. a major issue with resistance OR

2. something else - nutrient issue as above or something more obscure like a

mitochondrial issue.

It could all be down to iron but this can take months and months to resolve.

So, if Mark does ever get his T3 up to 100 or 150 mcg of T3 in dose one with no

response then it would probably be sensible to go back at that stage to his

original regime with multiple smaller doses (perhaps several 25s or 12.5s or

in-between) and waiting for the iron to rise. At least this is what I suspect a

lot of people would do.

I've asked Mark to give us all an occasional update now on progress because

this process will go on for some time.

[Guest guest]

No laboratory test, but as Henrik has pointed out this morning,

there is the Achilles Tendon Reflex test to check the reflex time and a slow

reaction IS SPECIFIC to hypothyroidism.

Luv - Sheila

Yes,

It is an issue Sheila. The average doctor or endo will not listen at the

moment.

If they did then many of us wouldn't ever need to use a forum.

I'm hoping my book has a benefit - at least in communicating some of this to

those patients who are stuck with this type of problem.

There is no laboratory test that these patients can ask for that will neatly

get them out of the mess. A list of 'on-side doctors and endos' that will

hopefully develop over time to be larger and more informative in terms of which

ones understand these issues and which ones prescribe trials of what hormones

may help also.

[Guest guest]

Will anyone consider - at some point - 'maybe it's not thyroid' that's causing

this issue?

Chris

>

> Just spoken to Mark.

>

> He told me that he was more tired than normal yesterday on two larger doses of

T3 (37.5 mcgs in each dose).

>

[Guest guest]

The Achilles Tendon Reflex test can also indicate low adrenals – as Dr P mentions in his book.

Hazel.

www.oneagleswings.me.uk http://oneagleswingsme.blogspot.com/

No laboratory test, but as Henrik has pointed out this morning, there is the Achilles Tendon Reflex test to check the reflex time and a slow reaction IS SPECIFIC to hypothyroidism.

Luv – Sheila.

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[Guest guest]

HI , Sheila

Not doing a T3 alongside a TSH does make sense if you don't want anybody to

question the 'usefulness' of the TSH test . When my TSH was 3 my T3 was

borderline, when my TSH was3.6 my T3 was abnormal . Needless to say it was not

easy getting the T3 tests done . My symptoms and the fact that over half my

thyroid was removed a few years earlier told me I was serverely hypo ,the TSH

test most certainly didn't . It was only theT3 which confirmed my suspicions .

Of course there is no diagnosis because the TSH was in " range' . Yes there

something seriously wrong.

.

>

> Consider this: Hypothyroidism and hyperthyroidism are " duals. " They are

opposites in similar ways. But why is T3 routinely measured for hyper whiled it

is not for hypo. It makes no sense

[Guest guest]

>

> Thanks for this Henrik.

Only happy to be of some help..

Do anyone know where to buy the equipment for measuring the Achilles Tendon

Reflex Time? Dr. Peatfield?

[Guest guest]

What about http://www.ijcem.com/files/IJCEM812001.pdf

(given by Bob) and the Achilles' tendon Reflex Rate test - these two are

surely starters?

Sheila

Hi Sheila,

No its rubbish - no correlation between high SHBG and T3 thyrotoxicity.

Been there and done that.

Yes, I've heard this view even from Colin Dayan. SHBG is produced by the liver

and if this is high then supposedly the liver thinks the thyroid hormone is too

high.

It isn't true. From practical experience I know it isn't true and I have heard

this from others also.

[Guest guest]

All you need is a little patella hammer. You have the patient

stand up with his/her knee placed on a chair with their ankle and heel stuck

out and the doctor taps the Achilles' tendon and watches it's reflex action. You

need to learn what the usual speed of a normal reaction is before learning

about a slow reaction, but for those with symptoms of hypothyroidism, it slows

down by a fraction of a second, but a good doctor like Peatfield knows how to

read this.

Luv - Sheila

>

> Thanks for this Henrik.

Only happy to be of some help..

Do anyone know where to buy the equipment for measuring the Achilles Tendon

Reflex Time? Dr. Peatfield?

[Guest guest]

I'm with you on this 100% - more power to you.

You should write a newspaper article based on this idea !!!!!!

WHat do you call 100 endocrinologists in the depths of hell?

- yes.......

A good start!

>

[Guest guest]

hi, in this article from endocrine journal it dos not mention brain fog of mental symptoms associated with being hypo , or weight gain. we are all different and many will have some of the symptoms andMany will have some different one`s. my symptoms will be different to a mans as they don`t have period's and baby`s. Angel.

[Guest guest]

Hi there, tiredness can be a symptom of over production of the adrenals, i have been trying to work out my adrenal state ,over/under.and i have concluded that i am a bit of both, cycling .most of the time i seem to be slightly over, with a short time of being under. don`t no if this makes any sense.!! anyway can any one tell me how to get them to balance. I am on ginkgo and ginseng. and vitamin C, any idealsgratefully received. Angel.