Re: basic thyroid hormone questions - maybe for ?

[Guest guest]

Hi

What do you mean exactly? It is hard to believe that T3 is getting into my cells

considering the huge dose I'm on and the lack of hyper symptoms. So really the

or " a " problem is " thyroid " ...

Of course I might need to correct other things that are related to thyroid like

iron,zinc,copper etc. etc., is that what you mean?

Cheers,

Mark

> Will anyone consider - at some point - 'maybe it's not thyroid' that's causing

this issue?

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I have two more questions relating to this:

(a) would it make sense for me to consider natural thyroid at some point? I do

not hear of many thyroid resistant people on this, they are usually on T3 only.

( I have read that T3 increases sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) and

therefore lowers free testosterone. Could this be a reason some people feel

worse on T3 only? I am awaiting testosterone results.

Cheers,

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark,

How about gradually increasing your T3 over the next few months until you breach

the resistance? I very slowly increased my T3, too slowly but I didn't know any

better at the time, and I didn't breach my resistance until 420mcg of T3 (taken

as 3 x 140mcg). I was then able to gradually reduce the T3 dosage and have taken

140mcg a day for the last 10 years (taken as 80mcg first things and 60mcg late

afternoon) which I suspect may actually be slightly too low for me but it has

served me very well indeed.

I recommend you keep a diary of symptoms and signs inc temp, pulse and blood

pressure but frankly you will know when you finally breach as you'll go a bit

hyper (bit sweaty, fast pulse etc as though you've had too many coffees!) and

you can start to gradually cut the dosage back.

I don't want to sound too cavalier about it but your posts clearly indicate

partial peripheral resistance and I think you need to crack on with increasing

your dose until the thermometer finally says 37C. I was far far too cautious and

took 2 years to firstly increase my T3 until I breached the resistance and

secondly to gradually reduce it to the minimum I could get away with. If I knew

then what I know now I think I could have sorted it all out within 3 months.

>

> Hi,

>

> I have two more questions relating to this:

>

[Guest guest]

Yet another new article to add to the complexcity of thyroid disease:

What Should be Done When Thyroid Function Tests Do Not Make Sense?

Mark Gurnell; J. Halsall; V. Krishna Chatterjee; Clin Endocrinol.

2011;74(6):673-678. © 2011 Blackwell Publishing

Regards Henrik

[Guest guest]

Hi T3,

Thanks for your very encouraging reply. The thing is, I am actually feeling

worse since starting thyroid hormones (T3 is the first and only thing I ever

took) - did you actually feel worse or just not get better until you reached a

high dose?

The fact I'm feeling worse makes me think some other piece is not in place.

Could be iron and nutrients etc., but maybe testosterone. I am awaiting

testosterone results and have heard that this can be important in getting

thyroid working...

Cheers,

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I do have a question actually - is testosterone need for T3 to enter cells? I

mean can a testosterone deficiency lead to thyroid resistance?

Thanks,

Mark

.. If you have any questions, if I can help in any way, just ask.

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark,

I didn't get better until I was taking REALLY large amounts of T3. The first

time I ever saw a thermometer read 37C I was on 420mcg of T3! This must have

sorted all sorts of problems out and allowed me to then keep reducing my T3

without going hypo again. However I've never been able to get below 140 mcg

without getting signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism. I've been on this minumum

dose for the last 10 years and it has given me my life back. I've done extremely

well career wise, got married and have two demanding boys, I do very well in my

hobbies of chess and long distance cycling and I did a part time MA over the

last couple of years just for fun!

I kept upping the T3 until it finally worked. You have to do this with

peripheral resistance but I wish I'd got on with it a bit quicker, I was much

too cautious and slow and it cost me months. Some people need a LOT of T3 to

breach the resistance so don't be concerned by the large amount you might need.

If you'd like to email me I'd be happy to give you more specific info.

>

> Hi T3,

>

> Thanks for your very encouraging reply. The thing is, I am actually feeling

worse since starting thyroid hormones (T3 is the first and only thing I ever

took) - did you actually feel worse or just not get better until you reached a

high dose?

>

[Guest guest]

So is the fact that I am unemployed, not married, no man, no children, related

to taking only 37.5mcg of T3?

Will I find a man if I increase the T3?

Just joking.

Bye.

Vivien

>

> Hi Mark,

>

> I didn't get better until I was taking REALLY large amounts of T3. The first

time I ever saw a thermometer read 37C I was on 420mcg of T3! This must have

sorted all sorts of problems out and allowed me to then keep reducing my T3

without going hypo again. However I've never been able to get below 140 mcg

without getting signs and symptoms of hypothyroidism. I've been on this minumum

dose for the last 10 years and it has given me my life back. I've done extremely

well career wise, got married and have two demanding boys, I do very well in my

hobbies of chess and long distance cycling and I did a part time MA over the

last couple of years just for fun!

[Guest guest]

I am not sure about using T3 only, but last yr when i first added T3 to my T4

dose, my testosterone level and shbg level both came up.

My testosterone level had been low for quite a bit, but it slowly crept up due

to the T4.

On T4 only it was 15 (up from 10) and when i added in the T3 it went up to 18.

I am now on more T3 and much less T4 than last yr and i feel 100% well now. It

has taken some doing but i am there finally. But i am not sure what my

testosterone level is like at this point. I was also taking cortisol last

summer, but dont any more and i know this holds down testosterone a bit. So i

would hope my T level is maybe a touch higher than 18 now.

[Guest guest]

Mark

It is difficult when you are not well and you dont know what is causing what. i

was like that, but it wasnt testosterone or adrenals for me. It was simply

finding the right dose of thyroid meds and type of meds.

Much less thyroid meds overall, but a bigger component of T3 has worked for me =

52.5 T3 and 12.5 T4.

You have posted a lot of info so i cant follow the full pic, but why have you

started to use T3 as opposed to T4 ?

You should always try using T4 first because it is so dam easy to use and take -

if it makes you well which it does for a majority of users. So why not try this

instead of the T3

PLUS if you are worse taking the T3, you should not be taking it. It seems

stupid to take something that makes you feel worse.

I think the only way you will get better is trial and error and keep an eye on

the iron. eat meat etc. i take it you havent reduced down the T3 like a

suggested, or messed around with morning doses.

give me some feed back on what you have done please.

>

> Hi T3,

>

> Thanks for your very encouraging reply. The thing is, I am actually feeling

worse since starting thyroid hormones (T3 is the first and only thing I ever

took) - did you actually feel worse or just not get better until you reached a

high dose?

>

> The fact I'm feeling worse makes me think some other piece is not in place.

Could be iron and nutrients etc., but maybe testosterone. I am awaiting

testosterone results and have heard that this can be important in getting

thyroid working...

>

> Cheers,

>

> Mark

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Right now I am upping my morning dose. Yesterday it was 50mcg, this morning I

took 62.5mcg. No effect, not even increased heart rate. So I plan to continue,

until I notice something, presumably either heart rate or BP changes.

However if taking higher doses makes me feel even worse, then I will probably

stop and go back to basics.

One thing I want to consider is T4. I actually heard from a guy this morning who

didn't feel well on T3 - increased tiredness like me. In the end he is now on

120mg of dessicated and doing well.

You ask why did I not try T4? Well Dr P started me on T3 and prior to that I had

never taken any form of thryoid hormone. I don't really understand why T3 was

the choice, but it often seems when people have resistance issues T3 is the

choice treatment does it not?

Cheers,

Mark

> >

> > Hi T3,

> >

> > Thanks for your very encouraging reply. The thing is, I am actually feeling

worse since starting thyroid hormones (T3 is the first and only thing I ever

took) - did you actually feel worse or just not get better until you reached a

high dose?

> >

> > The fact I'm feeling worse makes me think some other piece is not in place.

Could be iron and nutrients etc., but maybe testosterone. I am awaiting

testosterone results and have heard that this can be important in getting

thyroid working...

> >

> > Cheers,

> >

> > Mark

> >

>

[Guest guest]

If you don't need T3 Mark, you are going to feel worse, but you

say the T3 doesn't do anything for you. In what way does it make you feel worse?

Did you say that all your minerals and vitamins we mentioned had

all come back within the normal range? Have we actually seen your results and

the reference range for each of the tests done - this forum is too busy for me

to remember individuals. If not, do post these results and don't just tell us

that they were returned as 'normal' because this means nothing.

Luv - Sheila

Thanks for your very encouraging reply. The thing is, I am actually feeling

worse since starting thyroid hormones (T3 is the first and only thing I ever

took) - did you actually feel worse or just not get better until you reached a

high dose?

The fact I'm feeling worse makes me think some other piece is not in place.

Could be iron and nutrients etc., but maybe testosterone. I am awaiting

testosterone results and have heard that this can be important in getting

thyroid working...

.._,___

[Guest guest]

I think thyroid patients should try meds in this order and stop when one works.

1a) Sort all mineral deficiencies out

1b) T4

2) T4 plus T3

3) T3

4) natural

5) natural plus T3

I say this because many people do well on T4 only and if it can work for you

then it makes life so much easier. However, if you have tried this and it has

no effect, then go for some T3 as well. If the two together do not work try T3

on its own.

You have jumped in to the deep end without trying the simpler alternatives

first.

Taking armour is the same as taking T4 and T3 but you do get a few more

benefits. However, i think a lot of armour users came over from using T4 only,

but i think T3 usage is becoming more popular or known about today.

I have tried armour and it helped, but i found it to be the same as T4 only.

What really helped me was using T4 and T3 together and then i had to find my

correct dosages.

T3 on its own was good, but i missed the T4 as well.

I am pretty sure i have found the right combo for me and that is the thing.

Find what works for you, but i do think from what i have gone through the above

order of experimentation is the best way.

I suppose you are in the middle of doing your T3 experiment and so keep going

with it. Keep monitoring the body as this will indicate if anything is

happening.

I wonder why you have such low iron levels though ? You mention you play sport.

Are you doing extreme aerobic activity such as marathon running then ?

>

> Right now I am upping my morning dose. Yesterday it was 50mcg, this morning I

took 62.5mcg. No effect, not even increased heart rate. So I plan to continue,

until I notice something, presumably either heart rate or BP changes.

>

> However if taking higher doses makes me feel even worse, then I will probably

stop and go back to basics.

>

> One thing I want to consider is T4. I actually heard from a guy this morning

who didn't feel well on T3 - increased tiredness like me. In the end he is now

on 120mg of dessicated and doing well.

>

> You ask why did I not try T4? Well Dr P started me on T3 and prior to that I

had never taken any form of thryoid hormone. I don't really understand why T3

was the choice, but it often seems when people have resistance issues T3 is the

choice treatment does it not?

>

[Guest guest]

I don't think I've ever had anyone do this test on me!!!

So, is it specific to thyroid levels - the next poster suggested adrenals as

well.

How can a reflex be specific to just one hormone or group of hormones?????

Is seems highly unlikely. I'd love to be convinced it was specific to T3 levels

as it would add to the list of symptoms and signs that may be used to track T3

levels.

Is there actual research that shows no other vitamin, mineral, organic compound,

amino acid, health condition, hormone, sugar, etc either in low or high levels

or disease of the central nervous system etc etc can cause a slow achilles

reflex other than low thyroid hormones?????

I bet the research doesn't exist but I'd so love to be convinced otherwise.

Cheers,

>

>

[Guest guest]

According to Mark

Starr and Lowe http://authenticallywired.com/2011/02/26/thyroid-disease-or-inadequate-thyroid-hormone-regulation-is-extremely-common/

Delayed

deep tendon reflexes (slow relaxation phase of the Achilles reflex)—Thyroid

hormone controls gene transcription for calcium ATPase. When you hit the

Achilles tendon and your foot goes down rapidly and then raises back slowly,

it’s a sign of hypothyroidism or thyroid hormone resistance. This is due

to lack of ATP molecules to provide the energy for the contractual filaments to

separate and relax, hence you get a visibly slow relaxation phase of the

Achilles reflex.

Here again is a classic

thyroid indication that does not correlate with high TSH values. Unfortunately,

this test (which used to be an established gold standard in thyroid testing) is

no longer used because endocrinologists assume high TSH values must be present

for hypothyroidism, which is not the case—but lab testing, like drugs, is

big business, brining in billions of dollars

But type in " slow

achilles tendon reflex sign of hypothyroidism " and you get up loads

showing this is a specific sign of a thyroid dysfuction..

" You can have more confidence in your need for thyroid

hormone therapy if you have one or more of the physiological abnormalities

common among hypothyroid patients. The abnormalities include (1) a low basal

body temperature, which you have; (2) a basal pulse rate too low for your level

of cardiovascular conditioning; (3) a slow relaxation phase during your

Achilles reflex; and (4) a low voltage R wave in the QRS complex of your EKG.

Of course, you can measure your temperature and pulse rate at home. Hopefully

your doctor will cooperate by testing your Achilles reflex and measuring the

voltage of your R wave " . http://www.thyroiduk.org.uk/tuk/pages/conditions/thyroid/hashimoto.html

" Achilles Reflex Speed. The relaxation phase

of the Achilles

reflex is abnormal in about 80% of patients

who are hypothyroid or

resistant to thyroid hormone. Accordingly, it’s

abnormal in roughly

the same percentage of patients with a

diagnosis of fibromyalgia.[

1,pp.879-880]

The Achilles reflex is abnormal in that the

relaxation phase is

slower than the contraction phase. When the

doctor hits a patient’s

Achilles tendon at the back of the ankle, the

calf muscles contract

at a normal rate, and the foot dips down.

Normally, the foot comes

back up at the same speed at which it dipped.

But for most patients

with too little thyroid hormone regulation,

the calf muscles relax

too slowly. This causes the foot to come back

at a slower speed.

The speed is so much slower that it’s

obvious to most anyone

watching.

An occasional hypometabolic patient has a

variation of the slow

relaxation phase. After the doctor taps the

tendon, her foot dips

quickly. But the foot stalls briefly, or may

jerk slightly, before

beginning a slow or normal relaxation phase.

As patients increase their doses of thyroid

hormone into the effective

range, the relaxation phase of the Achilles

reflex becomes

more rapid. Eventually it equals the speed of

the contraction phase.

YOUR GUIDE TO METABOLIC HEALTH

160

And any jerks or pauses before or during the

relaxation phase

cease. (Overstimulation with thyroid hormone

speeds both the contraction

and relaxation phases of the reflex.)

Before beginning to use thyroid hormone, the

patient should

ask a doctor or therapist to test her

Achilles reflex. If the relaxation

phase is slow at this baseline measurement,

changes in the speed of

the relaxation phase can serve as a measure

of the patient’s tissue

response to thyroid hormone. (For extensive

information on the

Achilles reflex as a tissue response to thyroid

hormone, see The

Metabolic

Treatment of Fibromyalgia, Chapter 4.3, pages 850-

http://www.drlowe.com/pdfs/3.free.chapters/12%20Chapter%207.Thyroid.pdf

…and then, there are the first 100 words of this article

BAH !....the damned words ran out just when it was getting interesting.

" In spite of the plethora of thyroid

function tests currently available to the clinician, only two tests represent

measurements of end-organ or tissue response to changes in thyroid function.

These are the basal metabolism rate (BMR) and the serum cholesterol test. Both

are rather non-specific and subject to great error. They usually rank low among

tests of thyroid function. The desirability of having a more specific and direct

measure of the peripheral effect of thyroid hormones is obvious. The slowing of

reflexes has long been held in esteem by clinicians as a near pathognomonic

sign in myxedema. The brisk reflex ….. http://www.annals.org/content/61/2/269.extract

As far as the slow achillea's tendon reflex being a sign of low

adrenal reserve, this is probably because of the connection with a low thyroid

state.

Luv - Sheila

I don't think I've ever had anyone do this test on me!!!

So, is it specific to thyroid levels - the next poster suggested adrenals as

well.

How can a reflex be specific to just one hormone or group of hormones?????

Is seems highly unlikely. I'd love to be convinced it was specific to T3 levels

as it would add to the list of symptoms and signs that may be used to track T3

levels.

Is there actual research that shows no other vitamin, mineral, organic

compound, amino acid, health condition, hormone, sugar, etc either in low or

high levels or disease of the central nervous system etc etc can cause a slow

achilles reflex other than low thyroid hormones?????

I bet the research doesn't exist but I'd so love to be convinced otherwise.

Cheers,

>

>

[Guest guest]

I'd agree with if item '3' was moved after '5'.

[Guest guest]

Hi

I don't agree with the order of your list. I think personally

you should go down the nutrition road and sort out any deficiencies first, then

try synthetic thyroxine (T4) alone. If that doesn't work, try combination

synthetic T4 and T3. If no good, try natural thyroid extract on its own. If

still not quite there, try natural thyroid extract plus T3 - and if that still

doesn't work, drop these and start on synthetic T3 alone.

Luv - Sheila

I think thyroid patients should try meds in

this order and stop when one works.

1a) Sort all mineral deficiencies out

1b) T4

2) T4 plus T3

3) T3

4) natural

5) natural plus T3

I say this because many people do well on T4 only and if it can work for you

then it makes life so much easier. However, if you have tried this and it has

no effect, then go for some T3 as well. If the two together do not work try T3

on its own.

You have jumped in to the deep end without trying the simpler alternatives

first.

Taking armour is the same as taking T4 and T3 but you do get a few more

benefits. However, i think a lot of armour users came over from using T4 only,

but i think T3 usage is becoming more popular or known about today.

I have tried armour and it helped, but i found it to be the same as T4 only.

What really helped me was using T4 and T3 together and then i had to find my

correct dosages.

T3 on its own was good, but i missed the T4 as well.

I am pretty sure i have found the right combo for me and that is the thing.

Find what works for you, but i do think from what i have gone through the above

order of experimentation is the best way.

I suppose you are in the middle of doing your T3 experiment and so keep going

with it. Keep monitoring the body as this will indicate if anything is

happening.

I wonder why you have such low iron levels though ? You mention you play sport.

Are you doing extreme aerobic activity such as marathon running then ?

>

> Right now I am upping my morning dose. Yesterday it was 50mcg, this

morning I took 62.5mcg. No effect, not even increased heart rate. So I plan to

continue, until I notice something, presumably either heart rate or BP changes.

>

> However if taking higher doses makes me feel even worse, then I will

probably stop and go back to basics.

>

> One thing I want to consider is T4. I actually heard from a guy this

morning who didn't feel well on T3 - increased tiredness like me. In the end he

is now on 120mg of dessicated and doing well.

>

> You ask why did I not try T4? Well Dr P started me on T3 and prior to that

I had never taken any form of thryoid hormone. I don't really understand why T3

was the choice, but it often seems when people have resistance issues T3 is the

choice treatment does it not?

>

[Guest guest]

The thing is, Dr P must have started me on T3 only for a reason, I think because

we guessed that resistance was the problem, because my TSH,T3 and T4 were all

middle of the range and we knew that taking HC hadn't helped me.

Isn't it the case that most thryoid resistant people are on T3 only?

Mark

> 1a) Sort all mineral deficiencies out

> 1b) T4

> 2) T4 plus T3

> 3) T3

> 4) natural

> 5) natural plus T3

>

[Guest guest]

So why would Dr P start me on the one that most people seem to think should come

last??

Mark

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Here is a link to my results:

thyroid treatment/message/87273

I realise I need to get ferritin up and test other things. I have a GP

appointment tomorrow where I will ask for Folate,Zinc,Copper,Magnesium,B12, but

I already supplement with these

and they have always been good in the past. I realise things can change though.

CUrrently taking about 300mg elemental iron a day with vit-C and have arranged

for an iron infusion...

Clearly these things could be my problem, and I will probably stop T3 very soon

and go back to basics.

Cheers,

Mark

>

> If you don't need T3 Mark, you are going to feel worse, but you say the T3

> doesn't do anything for you. In what way does it make you feel worse?

>

> Did you say that all your minerals and vitamins we mentioned had all come

> back within the normal range? Have we actually seen your results and the

> reference range for each of the tests done - this forum is too busy for me

> to remember individuals. If not, do post these results and don't just tell

> us that they were returned as 'normal' because this means nothing.

>

> Luv - Sheila

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> Delayed deep tendon reflexes (slow relaxation phase of the Achilles

> reflex)

The ankle reflex test is used to demonstrate a low level of thyroid hormone IN

the cells. Investigating thyroid patients a group did the following: " To

estimate the association between thyroid hormones and markers of tissue

hypothyroidism we correlated TSH and thyroid hormone concentrations with the

different tissue parameters. "

If you look at the figures you will se that The ankle reflex test is meaningful.

The article; http://www.bmj.com/content/326/7384/311.full.pdf

and TSH came out lousy

If you would like to test the different sorts of vitamins and their effect on

The ankle reflex test you need a very strict method so you don't mix apples and

pears.

But lets focus

- the problem for the patient is normally that nobody listens to his/her

particular problem.

Those patients facing weird symptoms are often being treated in a wrong manner.

The doctors stop when they do not understand the lab results and the complaints

from the patient.

In the article: " What Should be Done When Thyroid Function Tests Do Not Make

Sense? Mark Gurnell; J. Halsall; V. Krishna Chatterjee; Clin Endocrinol.

2011;74(6):673-678. © 2011 Blackwell Publishing " the group proposes a very

interesting algorithm for treating symptoms in a (hypo)thyroid patient that do

not fit into the normal pattern.

This kind of treatment approach is what thyroid (and all other) patients needs

Regards Henrik

[Guest guest]

Mark,

T3 is what you need to tackle a resistance issue and lots of it! It gets you

past any conversion/rT3 issues. Trying to use T4 or a T4/T3 mix or NDT would

just be a waste of time right now. Once you are up and running you might want to

try them but to start with you need to breach that resistance by gradually

upping your T3 until your temperature and other signs and symptoms have

normalised.

There won't be many people on this site who know much about treating peripheral

resistance and how to use T3 so you may get some conflicting info. I totally

agree with that T3 should be the last resort BUT it is the only choice for

overcoming peripheral resistance. I can't give you specific advice on how to

change your dosages without specifc info and that isn't really the purpose of

this forum so it would be best to email me and I'll help you and Dr P get it

sorted out.

Best wishes, Dr W

>

> So why would Dr P start me on the one that most people seem to think should

come last??

>

> Mark

>

[Guest guest]

THYROID PROFILE 2

TOTAL THYROXINE(T4) 118 nmol/L 59 - 154

THYROID STIMULATING HORMONE 2.00 mIU/L 0.27 - 4.2

FREE THYROXINE 20.0 pmol/l 12.0 - 22.0

FREE T3 5.0 pmol/L 3.1 - 6.8

IMMUNOLOGY

THYROID ANTIBODIES

Thyroglobulin Antibody 14.5 IU/mL 0-115(Negative)

Thyroid Peroxidase Antibodies 12.6 IU/mL <34 (Negative)

SPECIAL PATHOLOGY

REVERSE T3 *0.42 ug/l 0.09 - 0.35

Ok i see from these results why Dr P has put you on T3 only.

You have high T4, elevated TSH (although not terrible, but this is a bad

indicator anyway) and low T3. Plus high RT3.

So your T3 is not being converted very well and it seems to be going into RT3.

So why are you making more RT3 than T3 ? That seems important. If it is down

to the low iron then you will have to wait to get it up.

Arnt you doing extreme exercise though ? If so this could affect how the T3 is

used or not used. I may be wrong on this point though.

Because you have plenty of T4 in your system it may take a while to run the RT3

out of it.

Rather than just ramp up the T,3 see how you feel taking much less per day. Say

look at taking 3 x 20mg doses. If there is no change then i dont see why you

would want to continue to take more and more. You should miss it if it is doing

something for you.

This is a tough one to crack so please dont go thinking i know more than

yourself. I just know what has happened to me. There is a solution, but it

will take time to find it.

[Guest guest]

I think you need to plan a course and stick to it. Here you've got goodness

knows how many opinions, and then Dr Peatfield who you are supposed to be under

the care of. Ask 10 people, get 10 different answers. Who's do you go with?

It seems simple to me, though i think you are making it difficult. Get every

test done that's been recommended (i've mentioned how this is possible , quite

cheaply comparatively) and then take it from there. All tests done at once

(growth hormone, cortisol, dhea, pregnenolone, testosterone etc) , so you know

what everything is. Basics first.

Then you see the test results and well it'll be obvious if stuff is wrong or not

- it might be really easily treatable (DHEA, pregnenolone, copper, growth

hormone perhaps). If none of these test results is wrong, then and only then

would i be looking at other things like supra phsyiological doses of T3, or

whatever. Symptoms of hormone deficiencies can cross over.

I would not be taking supra physiological doses of anything, let alone T3,

without being under close medical supervision.

I have to say this is rather frustrating to read, as I do not understand your

approach, nor others either. I would not be taking advice on this off people

off the internet who i've never met and sure, have done well by the sound of it,

but how do you know your problem is the same as theirs?

You don't even have a proper diagnosis (in my opinion) so how can you be

treating what you don't know is wrong? I won't be monitoring this thread

anymore as it's getting ridiculous.

Chris

>

> Clearly these things could be my problem, and I will probably stop T3 very

soon and go back to basics.

>

[Guest guest]

I feel more tired, espcially in the afternoon, and more general fatigue.

> If you don't need T3 Mark, you are going to feel worse, but you say the T3

> doesn't do anything for you. In what way does it make you feel worse?