Re: basic thyroid hormone questions - maybe for ?

[Guest guest]

I think my iron must be low due to low thyroid, as 18months ago my iron was

good, but my hypo symptoms have worsened. No change in diet and I eat plenty of

spinach and meat. I cannot play sport or exercise at all - you must have me

confused with someone else!

>

> I wonder why you have such low iron levels though ? You mention you play

sport. Are you doing extreme aerobic activity such as marathon running then ?

[Guest guest]

Well if the iron has worsened at the same time as thyroid and you feel worse

this is a clue.

chicken and egg here ? Which causes which. You are working on the iron here so

that is good.

You have 2 choices aa i see it

1) continue doing your high T3 experiment.

2) Continue with T3 but on a much lower dose and mess with doses and timings

This is the one i would have started on to see if it helped. If you have done

this already then stick out option 1 and see it through. This is what DR P

wants you to do and he will have a good idea of what is happening.

Get checked out for all the other potential problems as chris said.

>

> I think my iron must be low due to low thyroid, as 18months ago my iron was

good, but my hypo symptoms have worsened. No change in diet and I eat plenty of

spinach and meat. I cannot play sport or exercise at all - you must have me

confused with someone else!

>

> >

> > I wonder why you have such low iron levels though ? You mention you play

sport. Are you doing extreme aerobic activity such as marathon running then ?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Chris

I think you were in a similar position to Mark at one point. I am assuming you

did all these tests. Have you got to the bottom of your problems yet ? Was it

thyroid or something else ?

> You don't even have a proper diagnosis (in my opinion) so how can you be

treating what you don't know is wrong? I won't be monitoring this thread

anymore as it's getting ridiculous.

>

> Chris

>

[Guest guest]

Hi

Mark

Dr

P probably started you on T3 because your level of T3 was low or you were

showing tissue unresponsiveness. He NEVER starts anybody on synthetic thyroxine

(T4) alone - he has his own thoughts on that one, in the same way that Dr Lowe

would not start anybody on levothyroxine alone either, along with many other

doctors. If a patient is already on levothyroxine and still having problems

with symptoms, he will check your nutrition status first, and check your

adrenal and candida status etc and if all OK, then start you on probably

synthetic T3 added to your T4, or natural thyroid extract or T3 alone and yes,

it is the case of thyroid resistant people recommend T3 only. However, you need

to find out why your body is preventing your thyroid hormone from reaching your

cells - and there could be numerous reasons.

The

discovery of MCT8 mutations explains laboratory discrepancies e.g. cases

in which the lab results didn’t fit a particular pattern. It also

explains how thyroid hormone resistance can cause TSH to appear normal even

with a low FT4. In many instances only the TSH test is performed. If the

TSH result is normal, and symptoms of hypothyroidism are observed, tests for

FT4, FT3 and T3 should all be performed. For T3 to exert its

biologic activity within the cell, it must either be converted from T4

or must enter the cell. Initially, it was thought that, because of their

lipophilic structures, T4 and T3 would cross the plasma

membrane by passive diffusion. However, became clear that the transport of

these molecules across the membrane is facilitated by transporters,3 and studies were undertaken to

identify such transporters. Friesema et al identified MCT8 (monocarboxylate

transporter 8) as a specific thyroid hormone transporter using functional

studies in Xenopus

oocytes. Tissue distribution studies using MCT8-specific

antibodies found the protein to be expressed in kidney, brain, liver, and

heart. Thus, circulating T3 could be transported into the target

cell by MCT8 and thereby exert its biological function.

However,

the situation is not this straightforward in the brain. Fliers et al used

immunohistochemistry, mRNA in-situ analysis, and enzyme studies to show the

differential distribution of D2, D3, and MCT8.5 They found D3, MCT8, and thyroid

hormone receptor (TR) to be expressed in neurons in the paraventricular nucleus

(PVN) that release thyrotropin-releasing hormone (TRH); in agreement with

earlier studies, D2 was limited to glial cells, such as astrocytes and third

ventricle tanycytes.Based on their observations, Fliers et al5 proposed a model for the action of

thyroid hormone (T3/T4), which is summarized in Figure 1B. T4 is taken up by

glial cells via an unknown mechanism/transporter.5 Once in the glial cell, T4

is converted to T3 by D2. T3 can either enter the nucleus

or exit the glial cell, again via an unknown mechanism. The circulating T3

is then taken up by a TRH-producing neuron via MCT8. Once in the neuron, it

binds to a thyroid hormone receptor (TR), which then forms a complex with the

retinoid X receptor (RXR). This complex binds to a T3-responsive

element (TRE) and, in turn, causes a change in the transcription of specific

genes and thus in the subsequent translation into proteins. ….read more

at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2094733/

This

gene mutation is carried down the family line and if you have not been tested,

you should be to rule this out and this may mean others in your family may need

to be tested to see if they carry the MCT8 mutations.

If

this is found not to be the problem, then you should look at the many other

conditions that reduce the conversion of T4 to T3 such as aging, obesity,

disease, stress, exercise, malnutrition, where toxic substances such as

phenols, cadmium, mercury, etc, or other medicines (e.g. propranolol,

amiodarone) interfere by stimulating or inhibiting the T4 to T3 conversion,

hormone or trace element deficiencies or excess, (e.g. of T3, GH, insulin,

melatonin, zinc, copper, selenium, glucocorticoids, ACTH, oestrogens etc) all

of which may inhibit the conversion of T4 to T3 – see http://www.tpa-uk.org.uk/resp_bta_t4t3.pdf

You

really do need to concentrate on finding the cause for your own particular

thyroid hormone resistance or peripheral resistance to thyroid hormone at the

cellular level - and take it from there.

Luv

- Sheila

The thing is, Dr P must have started me on T3

only for a reason, I think because we guessed that resistance was the problem,

because my TSH,T3 and T4 were all middle of the range and we knew that taking

HC hadn't helped me.

Isn't it the case that most thryoid resistant people are on T3 only?

Mark

_._,___

[Guest guest]

Because, for the most part, Dr P he is way ahead of most doctors

Mark and obviously noted that you were beyond starting with the other possible

methods, as he takes more than serum TSH testing into consideration. Boy, if

only all NHS doctors did this, we would not be in the pickle that most of us

are today. Your problem appears to be that you yet, have still not identified

the cause of your symptoms of hypothyroidism as mentioned in my previous

message.

Luv - Sheila

So why would Dr P start me on the one that most

people seem to think should come last??

Mark

>

[Guest guest]

> FREE T3 5.0 pmol/L 3.1 - 6.8

> You have high T4, elevated TSH (although not terrible, but this is a bad

indicator anyway) and low T3. Plus high RT3.

Isn't my free T3 in the centre of the reference range?

> Arnt you doing extreme exercise though ? If so this could affect how the T3

is used or not used. I may be wrong on this point though.

No I can not do any exercise, I only have the energy to walk to the bus stop

3mins and back.

> Rather than just ramp up the T,3 see how you feel taking much less per day.

Say look at taking 3 x 20mg doses.

I have already gone through that stage a few weeks back, and I don't feel any

different now to then.

> This is a tough one to crack so please dont go thinking i know more than

yourself. I just know what has happened to me. There is a solution, but it

will take time to find it.

Cheers, I am sure there is a solution too. I am not giving up hope.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Ah yes, I remember these now and most look fine, apart from your ferritin and your TSH which should be around 1.0 and your ferritin. However, I am concerned that you should have started yourself on HC at 30mgs. This could be the reason why you are feeling so awful. You should never start HC at such a high dose.

There are two fundamental contraindications to cortisol supplementation: when it is not necessary or when it could cause harm. First: Cortisol treatment is not needed when lab tests are normal. In that case, cortisol treatment will generally not help and may, on the contrary, cause harm. Second, cortisol treatment – even appropriate replacement doses of cortisol, may cause harm if the patient does not have sufficient levels of anabolic hormones such as DHEA and sex hormones to counter cortisol catabolic effects. The catabolic effects of cortisol can cause excessive breakdown of the tissues of the body, which result in osteoporosis (loss of bone tissue), skin atrophy (thinning), ecchymosis, petechia (bruising) and immunosuppression (decrease in immune defences). So the recommendation is to treat only when necessary and to do it safely with the smallest effective physiologic doses and with simultaneous correction of any deficit in anabolic hormones.

According to Dr. Hertoghe, the recommended dosing for cortisol is:

MEN

DEFICIENCY

PRODUCT

7.8am

Noon

4.0pm

Before bed

Borderline

HYDROCORTISONE

15mg

5mg

Mild

20mg

10mg

Moderate

25mg

10mg

5mg

Severe to total

30mg

10mg

10mg

5mg

Bordeline

PREDNISOLONE

2.5mg

Mild

5mg

Moderate

6-7.5mg

Borderline

METYLPREDNISOLONE

2mg

Mild

4mg

Moderate

6-8mg

WOMEN

Borderline

HYDROCORTISONE

10mg

5mg

Mild

10mg

10mg

Moderate

15mg

10mg

5mg

Severe to total

20mg

10mg

5mg

5mg

Borderline

PREDNISOLONE

2.5mg

Mild

5mg

Moderate

7.5mg

Borderlione

METYLPREDNISOLONE

2mg

Mild

4mg

Moderate

6-8mg

Hirsutism

DEXAMETHASONE

0.1-0.5 mg

The principal mental and emotional signs and symptoms of cortisol excess after several hours to several days are - overly emotional, excessive agitation, euphoric, insensitive to human suffering, craves stress and creates it, stressing others but not oneself, insomnia.

The principal physical signs and symptoms of cortisol excess after several hours – days are: cardiac erethism (heart pounding in chest. Several days to more than a week; swollen hands and feet, swollen face, high blood pressure. After several weeks to several months: weight gain, obesity, ecchymosis (easily bruises), Petechiae (tiny skin haemorrhages) and after several months: atrophic skin, osteoporosis.

What to do in the case of an urgent and stressful cortisol overdose?

Reduce the dose but do not stop completely, except for a synthetic dexamethasone that can remain in the body for 48 hours>> Hi Sheila,> > Here is a link to my results:> > thyroid treatment/message/87273> >

[Guest guest]

Problem is so many of our members are being left without

a correct diagnosis and without any treatment that will help them, and this is

the reason why they have need to join support forums where they can hopefully

get the help and support they need. If we were getting our health back within

the NHS diagnosing and treatment protocol, there would be no need for these

forums, and there would be no need for we patients (unqualified) to do whatever

research is necessary to try to find the answers. We already have a lot of

answers as to why people are being left to suffer that the NHS practitioners

and medical school professors/teachers are choosing to ignore and helping many

of those suffering get back their health again. You yourself have not been given

a proper diagnosis, yet you are seeking reasons and possible therapies that

would help you regain your health again.

One thing we need in this game is knowledge and patience and

yes, much of what has to be done has to be done through trial and error because

the majority of us have been forced into this situation by those who should

know better.

Luv - Sheila

> You don't even have a proper diagnosis (in my opinion) so how can you be

treating what you don't know is wrong? I won't be monitoring this thread

anymore as it's getting ridiculous.

>

>

_,_._,___

[Guest guest]

HI Mark, , anyone else who wants to contribute to this.

I've emailed Mark this thought.

Mark's been on quite a low dose of T3 without T4 for ages. However, the divided

doses of T3 were 37.5 followed by lots of 12.5s. My experience and the

experience of a lot of thyroid patients using T3 is that sometimes for some

people dose sizes that are too low (like 12.5) don't actually make it into the

cells and the receptors therein due to numerous possible reasons.

My initial thought / idea was that this could easily be the cause of a lot of

the issues. Mark has tried increasing his T3 dose (not as high as some use) and

the response so far has been zero or negative. Now there are still so many

things that could be a problem.

Occasionally you get people with so many possible issues that it is really hard

to stay organised and keep crossing things of the list.

What we know is:

1) iron is probably low - was low and maybe needs retesting soon. Mark is

supplementing perfectly adequately but we don't know if it is improving.

2) we don't know that the increased T3 is actually being absorbed and is

suppressing TSH and raising FT3 - so another blood test is needed on the higher

T3 individual doses (> 12.5). If there is some fundamental digestive system

related issue that is affecting absorption or binding the thyroid hormone early

then this could theoretically reduce the T3 getting through. Also, we need to

know if the pituitary and thyroid are behaving as they ought to - and the liver

for that matter - we need to know that the T3 is not being near totally bound to

protein. This testing is important to ensure that a basic assumption we are

making is correct.

3) Because Mark has only recently increased his T3 to greater than 12.5 mcg T3

divided doses my guess is that he has only been eliminating T4 for about a week.

This means he may have another 7 weeks or so to go before the T4 is eliminated

and therefore the rT3 is also eliminated. This is a game changing thought - if

rT3 is indeed an issue for Mark. FT4 and rT3 may need to be re-tested to

validate the in-built assumption that the rT3 has indeed been cleared.

4) Then there is the other set of thoughts that some other nutrient like copper

or zinc might be a problem or there is a low level of some B complex vitamin. I

can't really see any of these completely killing the response to T3 in the way

Mark is experiencing it but can I rule it out totally - no.

5) Mark's temperature ranges aren't that bad - a lot of the daytime is around 98

deg. fahrenheit (36.4) - this is not catestrophically low. So, I'm not entirely

sure which specific symptoms Mark is hoping to improve.

6) Then there is scope for other more obscure issues - mitochondrial problems,

other hormones etc.

7) For someone in Mark's position I don't see the point of switching hormones

from T3 to anything else until a lot of the basic questions related to what is

going on are eliminated. T3 should work for everyone if it is high enough and at

the very least should generate a response. For those people who don't get a

response then my view is that they just haven't found a low enough or high

enough dosage or the right number of divided doses or timings. T3 is not the

right place to start when evaluating options - T4 is, then T4/T3 etc until

eventually T3 is tried. For someone like Mark who is already on T3 it may make

more sense for all the basic evaluations to occur before switching again to

something else.

With peculiar responses that get the old brain cells working overtime it is

really important to systematically cross all the most likely answers completely

and thoroughly off the list first before progressing to the next stage.

The way to make the least progress is to make unproven assumptions - all the

assumptions need to be proved totally in order to have a solid platform to work

from. So, for instance the assumption that the T3 is getting through to the

cells needs to be proved - yes it is likely but still it is a huge assumption.

Also the assumption that rT3 has been eliminated could do with being proved.

This could take some time.

[Guest guest]

I guess there is also the possibility that you don't actually need any thyroid

hormone at all if you say you've never been on any thyroid hormone apart from T3

for the past 45 days.

Maybe this is all nutritional.

You may have just developed an iron issue - regardless of your diet - you may

have some digestive system issue that interferes with digestion. If you were

doing anything that changed in your lifestyle or exercise level then this could

have placed more demands on nutrient usage.

Going straight to T3 is an unusual option.

Add this thought to the list.

You've got tons of options from lots of people here. You're going to have to

write the all down and work how how you want to proceed. I don't think I've come

across anyone with as many options to explore as you. Usually, people have fully

explored T4 and natural thyroid before I ever speak to them in detail.

I wouldn't blame you for going back to the drawing board and starting from a

simpler base.

Good luck,

>

> HI Mark, , anyone else who wants to contribute to this.

>

[Guest guest]

> Mark's been on quite a low dose of T3 without T4 for ages. However, the

divided doses of T3 were 37.5 followed by lots of 12.5s. My experience and the

experience of a lot of thyroid patients using T3 is that sometimes for some

people dose sizes that are too low (like 12.5) don't actually make it into the

cells and the receptors therein due to numerous possible reasons.

low iron is on reason isn't it?

>

> My initial thought / idea was that this could easily be the cause of a lot of

the issues. Mark has tried increasing his T3 dose (not as high as some use) and

the response so far has been zero or negative. Now there are still so many

things that could be a problem.

one of which is low iron ...both his ferritin and % saturation are low ...he had

hair loss and low iron is a symtom of hair loss.

he had low b12 despite supplementing...why wasn't folate tested?

> Occasionally you get people with so many possible issues that it is really

hard to stay organised and keep crossing things of the list.

" an iron problem " sort of 'shouts out' though doesn't it? (low ferritin and low

saturation and symptoms)

>Because Mark has only recently increased his T3 to greater than 12.5 mcg T3

divided doses my guess is that he has only been eliminating T4 for about a week.

This means he may have another 7 weeks or so to go before the T4 is eliminated

and therefore the rT3 is also eliminated. This is a game changing thought - if

rT3 is indeed an issue for Mark.

are are you saying that rt3 can be cleared in 8 weeks? isn't twelve weeks the

currently accepted minimum to clear rt3?

>....- if rT3 is indeed an issue for Mark.

i thought his blood tests showed (and commented on) a rt3 problem?

SPECIAL PATHOLOGY

REVERSE T3 *0.42 ug/l 0.09 - 0.35

> 4) Then there is the other set of thoughts that some other nutrient like

copper or zinc might be a problem or there is a low level of some B complex

vitamin. I can't really see any of these completely killing the response to T3

in the way Mark is experiencing it but can I rule it out totally - no.

iron is needed with copper and zinc ...if one third of the triumvirate is

missing then it is no longer a triumvirate is it!

http://www.ithyroid.com/iron.htm

mark's blood tests showed low triglycerides ...if that indicates quite low carb

eating then that also interferes with t3 uptake i thinnk.

to be honest it seems like you've all gone off on a bit of a wild ride and

somehow lost sight of what is staring out in full sight????

and who is Dr W who takes half a kilo of t3 before he gets out of bed ...what

type of doctor are you, medical, phd or both ...if you are a doctor you are

allowed to identify yourself.

>

> HI Mark, , anyone else who wants to contribute to this.

[Guest guest]

> Mark's been on quite a low dose of T3

without T4 for ages. However, the divided doses of T3 were 37.5 followed by

lots of 12.5s. My experience and the experience of a lot of thyroid patients

using T3 is that sometimes for some people dose sizes that are too low (like

12.5) don't actually make it into the cells and the receptors therein due to

numerous possible reasons.

low iron is on reason isn't it?

Yes, as is low ferritin, systemic candidiasis, mercury poisoning

that we are just learning also has issues with. No amount of Thyroid

hormone can be utilised in the cells until these have all been treated. It's

all a big 'guessing' game at the moment to find out whether any of these are

the culprit and each of these must be taken into consideration. We cannot just

decide it's low iron levels that is at the root of the problem. I believe it is

currently accepted that it takes up to 12 weeks for rT3 to be cleared

once the correct level of T3 has been found.

to be honest it seems like you've all gone off on a bit of a wild ride and

somehow lost sight of what is staring out in full sight????

No Trish, as we keep mentioning, it is a process of elimination

of all the possible problems that Mark has to go through, which he is doing at

the moment - I introduced even more possibilities in my long post this morning

to him which must not be ignored. Once, we risk failure if we make up our mind

made up that it must be one particular thing and nothing else, i.e. low levels

of iron, and then we can lose the plot. You will have seen that quite often, I

post a document to new embers telling them of the numerous problems they must

check out and eliminate if their thyroid hormone replacement isn't working.

There are quite a lot of people who need extremely high doses of

T3 before they can function properly. One interesting case is

reported by Kaplan et al in 1981 of a patient who needed 500 mcgs of T3 daily

to be free of hypothyroid symptoms. The patient’s metabolism was normal

and she had no tissue over-stimulation whatsoever. [Kaplan M.M., Swartz

S.L., Larsen P.R. “Partial peripheral resistance to thyroid

hormones.”Am. J. Med., 1981, 70: 1115-1121]

and who is Dr W who takes half a kilo of t3 before he gets out

of bed ...what type of doctor are you, medical, phd or both ...if you are a

doctor you are allowed to identify yourself.

Err!...and no, Dr W does not have to identify her/himself if

s/he doesn't wish to, neither do they have to tell us whether they are a phD or

medical doctor, or tell us anything their qualifications if they don't wish to.

My qualifications are WBA, I rarely use this however, but I bet you have

no idea what they stand for *grin*! We are all entitled to our anonymity and

each one of us should respect this. The one reason we do not allow doctors to

be named on this forum is to protect them - I often think one of the mistakes

that I made was to use my real name when I originally opened this forum - I

have suffered because of it in the past and no doubt will do so in the future.

Luv - Sheila

[Guest guest]

Are there actually tests available then for these cellular resistance problems?

Three other members of my family, all male, have hypothyroid symptoms without

apparently having hypothyroidism. They have all done the 24-hour urine test.

Would that pick up all forms of hypothyroidism? Two of them have adrenal

fatigue, which might account for the low thyroid type symptoms, but the third

family member has no apparent problems except for small red blood cells (not

caused by iron deficiency).

Miriam

> However, became clear that the transport of these molecules across the

membrane is facilitated by transporters,

> <http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11493579> 3 and studies were undertaken to

identify such transporters. Friesema et al identified MCT8 (monocarboxylate

transporter 8) as a specific thyroid hormone transporter using functional

studies in Xenopus oocytes. Tissue distribution studies using MCT8-specific

antibodies found the protein to be expressed in kidney, brain, liver, and heart.

Thus, circulating T3 could be transported into the target cell by MCT8 and

thereby exert its biological function.

>

> This gene mutation is carried down the family line and if you have not been

tested, you should be to rule this out and this may mean others in your family

may need to be tested to see if they carry the MCT8 mutations.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I was following the advice of the NTHAdrenals

mods. I am no longer on HC and my cortisol seems to be good since retesting.

> However, I am concerned that you should have started yourself on HC at

> 30mgs. This could be the reason why you are feeling so awful. You should

> never start HC at such a high dose.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,> I guess there is also the possibility that you don't actually need any thyroid hormone at all if you say you've never been on any thyroid hormone apart from T3 for the past 45 days. Why would being on thyroid hormone before mean that I needed it? I mean, surely everyone has to start at some time?> Maybe this is all nutritional.> > You may have just developed an iron issue - regardless of your diet - you may have some digestive system issue that interferes with digestion. If you were doing anything that changed in your lifestyle or exercise level then this could have placed more demands on nutrient usage.I don't think this is the case because, two years ago when I felt ill I had high iron and folate levels. If it was an iron/folate issue I should not have had symptoms then. But I had had symptoms for many years by then.Mark

[Guest guest]

Now I am getting confused, I thought you had written that you

take 30mgs HC and wanted to lower it ;o(

Luv - Sheila

Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I was

following the advice of the NTHAdrenals mods. I am no longer on HC and my

cortisol seems to be good since retesting.

> However, I am concerned that you should have started yourself on HC at

> 30mgs. This could be the reason why you are feeling so awful. You should

> never start HC at such a high dose.

>

[Guest guest]

if you have low body temperature then your digestive enzymes cannot work

properly. i think they stop working well (optimaly) when body temp drops below

98.2 ...sorry i don't have a link.

when you say you had high iron and folate levels ...was that high ferritin,

saturation or what? high ferritin can indicate inflammation somewhere. high

folate can mask vit b12 deficiency.

do you have low stomach acid, have you been checked for pylori?

trish

>

> Hi ,

>

> > I guess there is also the possibility that you don't actually need any

> thyroid hormone at all if you say you've never been on any thyroid

> hormone apart from T3 for the past 45 days.

[Ed]

[Guest guest]

Hi Trish,

Thanks for your comments. That was high ferritin, yes, so my iron could have

been low I suppose. I was initially B12 deficient but supplemented heavily (and

have been since). My past two B12 tests have been well above the reference

range...

I do have low stomach acid and take betaine HCl with meals. I have not been

checked for H pylori, I will look into that.

Thanks,

Mark

> do you have low stomach acid, have you been checked for pylori?

>

> trish

[Guest guest]

Oh yes ! It is 5 and i was reading it as 3.5 which is at the bottom of the

range.

So basically you have high FT4 and FT3 levels, so converting well. But you are

not well.

I really dont know what to suggest and there may be something else not working

correctly. T3 doesnt seem to help you, or it isnt so far.

You do need to get some other stuff checked out like the testosterone i suppose

and i think you are so will wait for that.

>

> Isn't my free T3 in the centre of the reference range?

>

>

[Guest guest]

I think I'm just getting confused by some of your descriptions of your history.

In one message you state you've never been on T4 - this may not have been what

you intended to say but it read like this.

In another that you only been on T3 for 45 days.

The messages aren't self consistent and this is essential if anyone is to make

sense of this.

So, now I'm just a bit confused.

You've had a lot of ideas I suggest you weigh them all up and develop an action

plan and then either do it or solicit feedback on it before doing it.

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Trish,

Thanks for your reply. yes I am eating low carb - can you find a reference for

this leading to cellular resistance? I couldn't find anything on the net. I have

only relatively recently been low carb, however.

Cheers,

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

Sorry think I must be missing your point. I have never been on T4, and at the

time of writing that other message, I had been on T3 for 45 days. This thread is

getting so long it is confusing everyone!

Mark

>In one message you state you've never been on T4 - this may not have >been what

you intended to say but it read like this.

>

> In another that you only been on T3 for 45 days.

>

> The messages aren't self consistent

>

[Guest guest]

UPDATE

Hi all,

Just to say I am sticking to my 75mcg dose for now and monitoring symptoms.

Yesterday my GP had blood drawn for: zinc,magnesium,copper,ferritin,B12,Vit

D,Folate, TSH and T4. Couldn't get him to test fT3. He very firmly told me it

was NOT possible to diagnose hypothyroidism without TSH and T4 blood test...But

at least he agreed to some tests. I am assuming he'll be calling me soon when my

TSH and T4 come in rock bottom. Then we'll find out the status of these

nutrients.

Mark

[Guest guest]

Hi Mark,

I am becoming increasingly concerned that you are apparently a

member of several thyroid, CFS, adrenal forums and appear to be getting

information from 101 different sources and taking a little bit of information

from each one of these sources, and getting nowhere. You appear to spinning a

bit out of control, and I can understand why. If I was you, I would decide

which forum you feel is giving you the best recommendations and stick with that

and that one ONLY if you feel the need for a support forum. Also, decide

whether or not you want to stick with the doctor you chose to pay to help you

through all of this mess and go along with his recommendations. Otherwise, I can

only predict you are going to make matters much worse for yourself. None of us

here or on other forums are medically qualified.

I know you are trying to make sense of all the information you

are receiving, but what you need to decide - and stick with that decision and

not waiver- is where you are going with all this in the future. This is the

150th message in this particular topic and I doubt you are any further forward

now since your first message, and this is worrying. If your message below

is what you have now decided, then stick with this decision once and for

all and don't be swayed or persuaded to go down other routes. You do need to

make up your mind whether to go along with Dr P's recommendations or those of

your GP.

Do post again when you have received the results of your

minerals/vitamin tests and TSH and free T4 - though the latter test results will

probably show you do not suffer with hypothyroidism, symptoms or not,

considering you are taking 75mcgs T3.

Luv - Sheila

UPDATE

Hi all,

Just to say I am sticking to my 75mcg dose for now and monitoring symptoms.

Yesterday my GP had blood drawn for: zinc,magnesium,copper,ferritin,B12,Vit

D,Folate, TSH and T4. Couldn't get him to test fT3. He very firmly told me it

was NOT possible to diagnose hypothyroidism without TSH and T4 blood test...But

at least he agreed to some tests. I am assuming he'll be calling me soon when

my TSH and T4 come in rock bottom. Then we'll find out the status of these

nutrients.

Mark

[Guest guest]

i was commenting on paul's message where he seemed to be questioning whether

iron was or wasn't a problem and also whether rt3 was or wasn't a problem ...i

pointed out the figures that clearly showed low ferritin and low saturation and

high rt3. at no time did i say or imply that iron was his only problem

(although it may be).

>>Err!...and no, Dr W does not have to identify her/himself if s/he doesn't wish

to, neither do they have to tell us whether they are a phD or medical doctor, or

tell us anything their qualifications if they don't wish to. My qualifications

are WBA, I rarely use this however, but I bet you have no idea what they stand

for *grin*! We are all entitled to our anonymity and each one of us should

respect this.

the dr w character chose to sign him/herself " dr " w

this is part of his/her message:

" There won't be many people on this site who know much about treating peripheral

resistance and how to use T3 so you may get some conflicting info. I totally

agree with that T3 should be the last resort BUT it is the only choice for

overcoming peripheral resistance. I can't give you specific advice on how to

change your dosages without specifc info and that isn't really the purpose of

this forum so it would be best to email me and I'll help you and Dr P get it

sorted out.

Best wishes, Dr W "

and because you have stated many times that " None of us on these forums are

medically qualified, and even though we might have disclaimers telling members

to see the advice of their qualified medical practitioners, this does not make

these forums safe. "

i felt it was perfectlty appropriate to ask whether dr w was a medical doctor or

a phd doctor.

>I often think one of the mistakes that I made was to use my real name when I

originally opened this forum - I have suffered because of it in the past and no

doubt will do so in the future.

sheila there would have been no logic in having an alias to conduct a public

campaign!!! it's a sad reflection on our society though that you have suffered

because your views and experiences go against the deeply entrenched dogma that

surrounds the medical business.

best wishes

trish

>

> > Mark's been on quite a low dose of T3 without T4 for ages. However, the

> divided doses of T3 were 37.5 followed by lots of 12.5s. My experience and

> the experience of a lot of thyroid patients using T3 is that sometimes for

>