Vitamin D

[Guest guest]

thanks Carol.. Amber goes outside alot. I worry because her face gets so red. I do give her CLO too. My oldest daughter was the one that brought up the vitamin D. I started reading about it. And just wanted to find out what others thought. Right now I am using - Inositol, Biotin , Ginkgold, Jarro-Dophilus probiotics, along with her other vitamins. Seems like alot. She is also on Luxiq in the a.m. and Rogain at night. weekends off. So I guess I will just stick with what we are doing for now. Carol in IL <ps1272000@...> wrote: I have never heard of that, but Vit D does seem to play a role in immunity and has been in the news lately due to some recent research. I had posted something a while back about negative effects of too much D too. I think everyone agrees one of the best ways to get D is to go out in the sun for a while when it's close to noon. Well that's for up here in the North, not sure about down south! Don't want to fry, just bake a little. ;-)I give a 1/4 tsp of cod liver oil for her D. It's a natural source which I think is better all around. As for absorption- you would have to give blood tests to determine if it's being absorbed or not.

We also did stool testing to measure absorption of foods. SCD did improve her absorption rate. Sherry is the queen of absorption issues....I found some research about vitamin D helping with hair Loss. And wanted to see if any one had any opinions on this or has used it?? What is a good dosage ?? And as far as absorption. If a child may not be absorbing vitamins or food vitamins well. What should be your next step?? Carol P. AIM iammamapie Carol in IL AIM

doihavtasay1Mom to seven including , 6 with TOF, AVcanal, GERD, LS, Asthma, subglottal stenosis, and DS.My problem is not how I look. It's how you see me. Join our Down Syndrome information group - Down Syndrome Treatment/ Listen to oldest dd's music http://www.myspace.com/vennamusic Don't get soaked. Take a quick peak at the forecast with the Search weather shortcut. Carol P. AIM iammamapie

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[Guest guest]

<<And as far as absorption. If a child may not be absorbing vitamins or food vitamins well. What should be your next step??>>

Do you already have lab proof that nutrients are not being absorbed? ie many levels are low like iron, Vit D, Cal, B12, albumin, zinc etc? If so and they continue to stay low despite supplementation the next step would be an endoscopy/colonoscopy to determine if there is inflammation or lesions or whjatever that prevent absorbtion, then it's on to meds...or the specific carbohydrate diet or both.

Just my experience

Sherry mom to 18, DS/Autism, malabsorbtion from Inflammatory Bowel disease (autoimmune) which includes crohn's and colitis

[Guest guest]

where you ok with high levels of d?

>

> Ken,

>

> Just a comment on what you stated regarding building up levels:

> " Vit. D is used

> > in over 200 body processes.... Supplementing with Vitamin D (takes

> > months to build up the levels) can result in the body addressing

the

> > infections and typically have a lot less herx than antibiotics. "

>

> That's not necessarily so, mine went up from below normal

to " optimal "

> levels in approx 3 weeks on only 1000iu's/day. It also dropped

back

> down below normal levels when I stopped taking D for one month, I

> guess we all utilize and absorb differently too?

>

>

> In the last week here in Canada Vitamin D has been a hot topic.

One

> doctor stated that we can only overdose if we take 10,000iu's over

a

> period of yrs. That's not so either, mine went up over high

levels

> on only 2000iu's/day and this over a period of one month.

>

> Best way to know for sure is to be tested.

>

> Nat

>

[Guest guest]

depends on what you mean by " ok " . since increasing my D levels (2

yrs ago) I've had immnue symptoms as though I always have a viral type

flu.

Nat

> where you ok with high levels of d?

[Guest guest]

Nat, not to worry. I only plan to stop Armor for 3-4 days. So far I

have stopped it 3 days and can't tell any difference. I really doubt

it is the problem as I have been on some dose of it for years.

a

>

> depends on what you mean by " ok " . since increasing my D levels (2

> yrs ago) I've had immnue symptoms as though I always have a viral

type

> flu.

>

> Nat

>

>

> > where you ok with high levels of d?

>

[Guest guest]

Dropping back so fast suggests that it is being consumed at abnormal

rates. There are a variety of Vitamin D dysregulations which may be

the cause of the quick increase and quick decrease. In some cases,

these dysregulations could (like coagulation defects) be a significant

co-factor or catalyst for CFIDS to develop.

You may wish to check out medline on VDR etc, or check out CFSPROTOCOL

group here on .

The purpose of a model is describe the general process. Low vitamin D

level impacts the effective of the immune system. Why the levels are

low can be quite varied (typically 80% are one cause, and there are

other causes).

>

> Ken,

>

> Just a comment on what you stated regarding building up levels:

> " Vit. D is used

> > in over 200 body processes.... Supplementing with Vitamin D (takes

> > months to build up the levels) can result in the body addressing the

> > infections and typically have a lot less herx than antibiotics. "

>

> That's not necessarily so, mine went up from below normal to " optimal "

> levels in approx 3 weeks on only 1000iu's/day. It also dropped back

> down below normal levels when I stopped taking D for one month, I

> guess we all utilize and absorb differently too?

>

>

> In the last week here in Canada Vitamin D has been a hot topic. One

> doctor stated that we can only overdose if we take 10,000iu's over a

> period of yrs. That's not so either, mine went up over high levels

> on only 2000iu's/day and this over a period of one month.

>

> Best way to know for sure is to be tested.

>

> Nat

>

[Guest guest]

hey nate

I meant did high levels have a negative effect on you?

miss id

>

> depends on what you mean by " ok " . since increasing my D levels (2

> yrs ago) I've had immnue symptoms as though I always have a viral

type

> flu.

>

> Nat

>

>

> > where you ok with high levels of d?

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Ken, et al, thanks for your responses and info on vit d

I guess my original post here was a bit niave

thats cool about your wife being less mcs, I have that too

I went through a period for about 6 years where I was extremely

intolerant of sun and heat, and I still don't like it,but I did take

vit d at behest of one of my docs cus my levels were low, took 400-

1000 for a year and I got less intolerant of the sun, not completely

but better, than i read the MP earlier this year, got concerned and

stopped the d, I am going to rethink that now.

I am in the midwest but have been out to the ferry and orca island,

one of my best friends lives in fremont, get out there couple times

a year.........

peace

M I

>

> Ken,

>

> Just a comment on what you stated regarding building up levels:

> " Vit. D is used

> > in over 200 body processes.... Supplementing with Vitamin D (takes

> > months to build up the levels) can result in the body addressing

the

> > infections and typically have a lot less herx than antibiotics. "

>

> That's not necessarily so, mine went up from below normal

to " optimal "

> levels in approx 3 weeks on only 1000iu's/day. It also dropped

back

> down below normal levels when I stopped taking D for one month, I

> guess we all utilize and absorb differently too?

>

>

> In the last week here in Canada Vitamin D has been a hot topic.

One

> doctor stated that we can only overdose if we take 10,000iu's over

a

> period of yrs. That's not so either, mine went up over high

levels

> on only 2000iu's/day and this over a period of one month.

>

> Best way to know for sure is to be tested.

>

> Nat

>

[Guest guest]

I don't know if the high levels of D had a negative effect on me

because I started feeling worse soon after I increased my levels, so

basically normal or high levels I still feel bad.

Nat

[Guest guest]

my understanding of feeling worst when you get more D is simple. Your

immune system suddenly starts gets an essential ingrediant to fight the

infection --- thus a immune system induced herx.

On the reverse, if go starve yourself of Vit D, such as a folks on the

MP, then you shut down your immune response -- so you do not have the

immune response symptoms and may **really feel better**. Unfortunately,

you have just hired Attila the Hun as your police and legal system. The

infection will prosper -- you have just crippled the immune system so

you do not have to deal with its symptoms...

>

> I don't know if the high levels of D had a negative effect on me

> because I started feeling worse soon after I increased my levels, so

> basically normal or high levels I still feel bad.

>

> Nat

>

[Guest guest]

Try talking with your Endocrine team to see what they recommend -- then you are in sync with your institutions's clincial practice. Otherwise, you can look for information in on's or perhaps Merck.

Jeanne Blankenship, MS RD

Rocklin, CA

-------------- Original message from ODonnell <jlod2@...>: --------------

Hi All,

I have a patient who is about 1 year out and her vitamin D levels came back low: 12. I have been recommending 50,000 IU's weekly for 6 weeks followed by 800 IU's daily. I recommended this to my surgeon and he said that calcium with vitamin D will be enough. I know from previous experience that even those who take 50,000 weekly for 6 weeks then start taking 800 IU's daily, their level drops again. Does anyone have any supporting data I could give to this surgeon. Its very frustrating when they refuse to follow my recommendations.

THank you,

O'Donnell RD, LD

oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

[Guest guest]

Hi , I like to use the book by Jacques, ND, "Micronutrition for the Weight Loss Surgery Patient." The recommendation is 50,000 IU weekly for low levels and 50,000 IU up to three times weekly for very low levels (below 8 ng/mL). Labs should be monitored 6-8 weeks for toxicity. There are some references at the end of this chapter on vitamin D, with the latest studies in 2003-2004. I'm new to this list, so perhaps this is a repeat of information others have shared. Thought I'd chime in and say hello. Thanks, Merri Lou Dobler, MS,RD,CD ODonnell <jlod2@...> wrote: Hi All, I have a patient who is about 1 year out and her vitamin D levels came back low: 12. I have been recommending 50,000 IU's weekly for 6 weeks followed by 800 IU's daily. I recommended this to my surgeon and he said that calcium with vitamin D will be enough. I know from previous experience that even those who take 50,000 weekly for 6 weeks then start taking 800 IU's daily, their level drops again. Does anyone have any supporting data I could give to this surgeon. Its very frustrating when they refuse to follow my recommendations. THank you, O'Donnell RD, LD oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

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[Guest guest]

In a message dated 8/24/07 6:57:28 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

soundingchimes@... writes:

> A new Harvard study finds that men who had the highest blood levels of

> vitamin D were 29% less apt to die from ANY cancer (including brain

> tumor) than those who had the least blood D.

>

Is this Vit D or D3? I was told that the preferred version i-0s D3.

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[Guest guest]

thank you for this valuable information

Nelly

>From: " soundingchimes " <soundingchimes@...>

>Reply-cures for cancer

>cures for cancer

>Subject: Vitamin D

>Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2007 22:55:50 -0000

>

>Vitamin D

>

>A new Harvard study finds that men who had the highest blood levels of

>vitamin D were 29% less apt to die from ANY cancer (including brain

>tumor) than those who had the least blood D.

>

>the vitamin appeared to be particularly effective in preventing

>esophageal and stomach cancers. According to one measure, an extra

>1500 IU of a vitamin D supplement may cut such cancer deaths by 45%.

>

>D is cheap too, and safe at these levels. And sunlight is a source-

>though this study focussed on supplements.

>

>New German research suggests tha vitamin D may be a new

>anti-infammatory agent for treating congestive heart failure.

>

_________________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

I've got a front tooth that I knocked loose a couple of years ago. Nowadays that

tooth is a

great indicator of my vitamin D levels. I almost lost the tooth to corrupt and

incompetent

dentists (that's when I found Tom Austin, who saved my tooth) but I found that

by taking

good minerals and the good vitamin D oil my bone structure could reattach the

tooth without

any other dental procedure. It worked great.

Call it human nature, or whatever, I ran out of my vitamin oils about 2 months

ago, and

then...well, I got lazy. Now I notice that the tooth is slightly loose again! I

started taking the

CLO again yesterday. Needless to say, if the one tooth is getting loose there

are other

weaknesses developing when I get off of a proper dietary intake. 85% of

Americans are

deficient in vitamin D and probably 99% of people at this latitude.

I purchased some of the great new Green Pastures fermented oils at the MVV

summer event

and I really like it so far. The Brunner's store sells it as does Chiro .

It's da best!

Will Winter

[Guest guest]

Jeanne,

I am writing to find out how you came to determine that D2 raises Vit

D levels quicker than D3. I found the following from Am J Clin Nutr

2000; 72:690-693...

" Thus, the orally supplied viamin D2 was more bioavailable, probably

because after absorption into the lymphatic system and transfer into

the bloodstream, it is also sequested in the large pool of body fat. "

Do you have other sources that indicate to utilize D2?

Thanks in advance for any light you shed on this!

Jill Frame, RD

>

> This is from on's -- but you should be able to look this up

in an

> Internal Medicine text:

>

> " If the pathway required for activation of vitamin D is intact,

severe

> vitamin D deficiency can be treated with pharmacologic repletion

initially

> (50,000 IU weekly for 3 to 12 weeks), followed by maintenance

therapy (800

> IU daily). "

>

> I would contact your pharmacy and ask how they want the script

written, we

> usually give it 5 days per week for 6 weeks and then re-check. I

would also

> talk with your endo team. You should have a treatment algorhythm

that

> either defines how you will treat/monitor the situation based on

mutual

> consensus from both departments or a protocol that defines the

referral

> process so that endo can treat and communicate with you.

>

> Hope this helps!

> Jeanne

>

> vitamin D

>

>

> > Jeanne:

> >

> > I am writing to get a little more information on your response to

a

> > listserv

> > question about Vitamin D (see your message below from several

weeks ago).

> > Our nurse practitioner is interested in providing Vitamin D

supplements to

> > some patients and she is wondering about what is written on

prescription

> > pad. Also curious if you have any articles relating to the use

of the

> > 50,000 units of ergocalciferol or if that decision was made on

expertise

> > of

> > your endocrinologists. Thanks for any information you can

provide.

> >

> > Best Regards,

> >

> > Laschkewitsch RD

> > Legacy Good Samaritan Obesity Institute

> > Portland OR

> >

> >

> >

> > We check 25(OH) D after the first visit with the surgeon (along

with B12,

> > MMA, rbc folate, homocysteine, thiamin, CBC, Chm panel, AIC)

There was a

> > paper in Obesity Surgery by Buffington that found that 62% of

patients in

> > one series had low levels pre-operatively. There are other

reports of low

> > vitamin D in the obese population. If you are doing a

presurgical

> > nutrition

> > assessment, you need to be able to assess vitamin status -- there

is ample

> > literature to support requesting these labs..baseline values are

also

> > helpful since low post-operative levels are often blamed on the

surgery

> > when

> > they were low pre-operatively.

> >

> > For vitamin D we worked with our endocrine team to establish a

treatment

> > protocol. We use 50,000 units of ergocalciferol 5 days per week

for 5-6

> > weeks. The lab should then be remeasured. We treat at the lower

end of

> > the

> > range, not just overt deficiency.

> >

> > Ergocalciferol will bring the values up faster than D3 which is

the common

> > form in supplements. You will need an Rx.

> >

> > Let me know if you have other questions.

> >

> > Jeanne Blankenship, MS RD

> > UC Medical Center

> > Sacramento, CA

> >

> >

> >

> > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This communication, including any attachment,

contains

> > information that may be confidential or privileged, and is

intended solely

> > for the entity or individual to whom it is addressed. If you are

not the

> > intended recipient, you should contact the sender and delete the

message.

> > Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, or distribution of this

message is

> > strictly prohibited. Nothing in this email, including any

attachment, is

> > intended to be a legally binding signature.

>

[Guest guest]

D3 (cholecalciferol) actually raises the levels faster, but most protocols utilize D2 (ergocalciferol)-- we based ours off the renal and endocrine services in our facility. We use D3 up to 2,000 IUs to treat insufficiency, but use D2 for treating anything less than 20. We just developed a new protocol for this and we are just waiting for final approval.

Jeanne Blankenship, MS RD

--------- vitamin D> > > > Jeanne:> >> > I am writing to get a little more information on your response to a > > listserv> > question about Vitamin D (see your message below from several weeks ago).> > Our nurse practitioner is interested in providing Vitamin D supplements to> > some patients and she is wondering about what is written on prescription> > pad. Also curious if you have any articles relating to the use of the> > 50,000 units of ergocalciferol or if that decision was made on expertise > > of> > your endocrinologists. Thanks for any information you can provide.> >> > Best Regards,> >> > Laschkewitsch RD> > Legacy Good Samaritan Obesity Institute> > Portland OR> >> >> >> > We check 25(OH) D after the first visit with the surgeon (along with B12,> > MMA, rbc folate, homocysteine, thiamin, CBC, Chm panel, AIC) There was a> > paper in Obesity Surgery by Buffington that found that 62% of patients in> > one series had low levels pre-operatively. There are other reports of low> > vitamin D in the obese population. If you are doing a presurgical > > nutrition> > assessment, you need to be able to assess vitamin status -- there is ample> > literature to support requesting these labs..baseline values are also> > helpful since low post-operative levels are often blamed on the surgery > > when> > they were low pre-operatively.> >> > For vitamin D we worked with our endocrine team to establish a treatment> > protocol. We use 50,000 units of ergocalciferol 5 days per week for 5-6> > weeks. The lab should then be remeasured. We treat at the lower end of > > the> > range, not just overt defici

ency.> >> > Ergocalciferol will bring the values up faster than D3 which is the common> > form in supplements. You will need an Rx.> >> > Let me know if you have other questions.> >> > Jeanne Blankenship, MS RD> > UC Medical Center> > Sacramento, CA> >> >> >> > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This communication, including any attachment, contains> > information that may be confidential or privileged, and is intended solely> > for the entity or individual to whom it is addressed. If you are not the> > intended recipient, you should contact the sender and delete the message.> > Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message is> > strictly prohibited. Nothing in this email, including any attachment, is> > intended to be a legally binding signature.>

[Guest guest]

We don't believe that RNY patients can convert D2 to D3 effectively;

thus, we prescribe only D3. Although written for those with normal

GI tracts, this article is informative:

Houghton, L.A. & Vieth, R. (2006). The case against ergocalciferol

(vitamin D2) as a vitamin supplement. American Journal of Clinical

Nutrition. Vol. 84(4), 694-697.

Supplemental vitamin D is available in 2 distinct forms:

ergocalciferol (vitamin D2) and cholecalciferol (vitamin D3).

Pharmacopoeias have officially regarded these 2 forms as equivalent

and interchangeable, yet this presumption of equivalence is based on

studies of rickets prevention in infants conducted 70 y ago. The

emergence of 25-hydroxyvitamin D as a measure of vitamin D status

provides an objective, quantitative measure of the biological

response to vitamin D administration. As a result, vitamin D3

has proven to be the more potent form of vitamin D in all primate

species, including humans. Despite an emerging body of evidence

suggesting several plausible explanations for the greater

bioefficacy of vitamin D3, the form of vitamin D used in major

preparations of prescriptions in North America is vitamin D2. The

case that vitamin D2 should no longer be considered equivalent to

vitamin D3 is based on differences in their efficacy at raising

serum 25-hydroxyvitamin D, diminished binding of vitamin

D2 metabolites to vitamin D binding protein in plasma, and a

nonphysiologic metabolism and shorter shelf life of vitamin D2.

Vitamin D2, or ergocalciferol, should not be regarded as a nutrient

suitable for supplementation or fortification.

Steve Huntington, PhD, RD, LD

> >

> > This is from on's -- but you should be able to look this

up

> in an

> > Internal Medicine text:

> >

> > " If the pathway required for activation of vitamin D is intact,

> severe

> > vitamin D deficiency can be treated with pharmacologic repletion

> initially

> > (50,000 IU weekly for 3 to 12 weeks), followed by maintenance

> therapy (800

> > IU daily). "

> >

> > I would contact your pharmacy and ask how they want the script

> written, we

> > usually give it 5 days per week for 6 weeks and then re-check.

I

> would also

> > talk with your endo team. You should have a treatment

algorhythm

> that

> > either defines how you will treat/monitor the situation based on

> mutual

> > consensus from both departments or a protocol that defines the

> referral

> > process so that endo can treat and communicate with you.

> >

> > Hope this helps!

> > Jeanne

> >

> > vitamin D

> >

> >

> > > Jeanne:

> > >

> > > I am writing to get a little more information on your response

to

> a

> > > listserv

> > > question about Vitamin D (see your message below from several

> weeks ago).

> > > Our nurse practitioner is interested in providing Vitamin D

> supplements to

> > > some patients and she is wondering about what is written on

> prescription

> > > pad. Also curious if you have any articles relating to the

use

> of the

> > > 50,000 units of ergocalciferol or if that decision was made on

> expertise

> > > of

> > > your endocrinologists. Thanks for any information you can

> provide.

> > >

> > > Best Regards,

> > >

> > > Laschkewitsch RD

> > > Legacy Good Samaritan Obesity Institute

> > > Portland OR

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > We check 25(OH) D after the first visit with the surgeon

(along

> with B12,

> > > MMA, rbc folate, homocysteine, thiamin, CBC, Chm panel, AIC)

> There was a

> > > paper in Obesity Surgery by Buffington that found that 62% of

> patients in

> > > one series had low levels pre-operatively. There are other

> reports of low

> > > vitamin D in the obese population. If you are doing a

> presurgical

> > > nutrition

> > > assessment, you need to be able to assess vitamin status --

there

> is ample

> > > literature to support requesting these labs..baseline values

are

> also

> > > helpful since low post-operative levels are often blamed on

the

> surgery

> > > when

> > > they were low pre-operatively.

> > >

> > > For vitamin D we worked with our endocrine team to establish a

> treatment

> > > protocol. We use 50,000 units of ergocalciferol 5 days per

week

> for 5-6

> > > weeks. The lab should then be remeasured. We treat at the

lower

> end of

> > > the

> > > range, not just overt deficiency.

> > >

> > > Ergocalciferol will bring the values up faster than D3 which

is

> the common

> > > form in supplements. You will need an Rx.

> > >

> > > Let me know if you have other questions.

> > >

> > > Jeanne Blankenship, MS RD

> > > UC Medical Center

> > > Sacramento, CA

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This communication, including any

attachment,

> contains

> > > information that may be confidential or privileged, and is

> intended solely

> > > for the entity or individual to whom it is addressed. If you

are

> not the

> > > intended recipient, you should contact the sender and delete

the

> message.

> > > Any unauthorized disclosure, copying, or distribution of this

> message is

> > > strictly prohibited. Nothing in this email, including any

> attachment, is

> > > intended to be a legally binding signature.

> >

>

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[Guest guest]

Did your ped say anything about allergies? We wanted to start giving our

baby Cod liver oil but our ped said to wait until a year because of

allergies and fish, etc. What kind do you give?

On Dec 13, 2007 10:28 AM, shabazz f <faibae@...> wrote:

> I havent done any research on the vitamin D in breastmilk issue

> recently, but from what I can remember, Vitamin D is not in breast milk. The

> human body makes it from sunlight. My pediatrician said that most babies of

> color dont get enough exposure to sunlight to make enough of it. You only

> need about 20 minutes in the sun in order to make your daily reccommended

> dose of it. My baby prob. does spend at least 20 minutes outside a day, but

> none the less at the pediatrician's suggestion I recently started giving her

> cod liver oil. My baby is 9 months it the suggested amt was 1 or 2 teaspoons

> and I take the same or a little more for myself.

>

> __________________________________________________________

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> know-it-all with Mobile. Try it now.

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>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I take each scientific study with a grain of salt. I do not believe

everything I read even if it says it was a bonified study as many are

written with a slant.

I can tell you my NP said not to take Vit D because it's hard on the liver.

Instead she wants me to get more sun. I live in New Mexico. I really can't

get anymore than I do in my mind.. So I supplement with about 2000mg per

day.

Wendi Carrillo

From:

[mailto: ] On Behalf Of

jocelynakajodyjohnson

Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 9:52 AM

Subject: Vitamin D

Hi Ken,

I stumbled on to this article that says you should not take Vitamin D

supplements. It was written by Trevor Marshall so we have to take it

with a grain of salt. Here's an excerpt from the article:

" Molecular biology is now forcing us to re-think the idea that a low

measured value of vitamin D means we simply must add more to our

diet. Supplemental vitamin D has been used for decades, and yet the

epidemics of chronic disease, such as heart disease and obesity, are

just getting worse. "

" Our disease model has shown us why low levels of vitamin D are

observed in association with major and chronic illness, " Marshall

added. " Vitamin D is a secosteroid hormone, and the body regulates

the production of all it needs. In fact, the use of supplements can

be harmful, because they suppress the immune system so that the body

cannot fight disease and infection effectively. "

Here's the link to the complete article:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080125223302.htm

I am on Valcyte but want to add another protocol. I'm considering

the FWIW protocol but got concerned about the Vitamin D....

Please tell me what you think about this article.

Sincerely, Jody

[Guest guest]

The theory that Vitamin D is bad is basically mainly based on

computer simulations, which mean nothing without real lab studies to

back it up. He also claims that his patients do better with lower

levels of vitamin D, but he doesn't mention that they are also taking

a huge dose of Benicar, antibiotics, and other supplements and

dietary changes. It's impossible to claim from such a treatment that

the reduction of the vitamin D by itself has any negative effect,

since they so many other changes are being applied at the same time.

Note also in the article he mentions a " Vitamin D agonist " . That is

actually referring to Benicar. Again, there is no proof that it acts

as a vitamin D agonist, except in a computer simulation, which again

is almost meaningless. He claimed the same thing for certain

statins, and that claim was proven false by a drug manufacturer's lab

study.

Meanwhile, tons of real lab studies show that many people have

vitamin D levels lower than the OLD recommendation, not just the new

recommendations, which Trevor is arguing against. The new

recommendation believes that a normal 25(OH)D level should be at

least 32 ug/l, as nicely described in the following article:

http://jn.nutrition.org/cgi/content/full/135/2/317

The article by Trevor doesn't address any of the arguments presented

by that and other papers, as to what the normal 25(OH)D levels should

be. Indeed, many vitamin D experts believe that even those

recommendations are low, and that the minimum level should instead be

50 ug/L.

As for vitamin D being hard on the liver, there is no proof that that

occurs either. Sunshine will produce a lot of the same exact

chemical, i.e. Vitamin D, which will then have to be converted by the

liver also. Indeed studies on huge oral doses (28,000 to 280,000 per

week) have been studied and found to be safe, without any negative

effect on liver enzymes and other parameters:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17823429

> I can tell you my NP said not to take Vit D because it's hard on

the liver.

> Instead she wants me to get more sun. I live in New Mexico. I

really can't

> get anymore than I do in my mind.. So I supplement with about

2000mg per

> day.

>

>

>

> Wendi Carrillo

>

>

>

> From:

> [mailto: ] On Behalf Of

> jocelynakajodyjohnson

> Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 9:52 AM

>

> Subject: Vitamin D

>

>

>

> Hi Ken,

>

> I stumbled on to this article that says you should not take Vitamin

D

> supplements. It was written by Trevor Marshall so we have to take

it

> with a grain of salt. Here's an excerpt from the article:

>

> " Molecular biology is now forcing us to re-think the idea that a

low

> measured value of vitamin D means we simply must add more to our

> diet. Supplemental vitamin D has been used for decades, and yet the

> epidemics of chronic disease, such as heart disease and obesity,

are

> just getting worse. "

>

> " Our disease model has shown us why low levels of vitamin D are

> observed in association with major and chronic illness, " Marshall

> added. " Vitamin D is a secosteroid hormone, and the body regulates

> the production of all it needs. In fact, the use of supplements can

> be harmful, because they suppress the immune system so that the

body

> cannot fight disease and infection effectively. "

>

> Here's the link to the complete article:

>

> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080125223302.htm

>

> I am on Valcyte but want to add another protocol. I'm considering

> the FWIW protocol but got concerned about the Vitamin D....

>

> Please tell me what you think about this article.

>

> Sincerely, Jody

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> I stumbled on to this article that says you should not take Vitamin D

> supplements. It was written by Trevor Marshall so we have to take it

> with a grain of salt. Here's an excerpt from the article:

***Hi Jody - I personally ignore anything that comes from Trevor

Marshall. Unless someone has Sarcoidosis, I don't think there is a need

to worry about taking Vitamin D3 supplements. Just be sure to get your

blood levels checked ocassionally by your doctor.

Take care.

Bernie

[Guest guest]

Many people, especially older, don't convert D from sun

well. Studies done on elderly Floridians...

Issues with melanoma and non-melanoma skin cancer with

high sun exposure. Also skin wrinkling and leathery look

undesirable by many.

Marshall's work has been in connection with sarcoidosis etc,

and the medical literature has long recommended minimizing

exposure to Vit D supps and sun exposure in sarcoidosis.

High Vit D in other autoimmune diseases

is an area worthy of further research, as Marshall may be

onto something there.

Very high amts of Vit D considered to be " safe " - but for

how long? I could see shorter periods of time, but many months

and years?

I got major hair loss when Vit D supps exceeded 1000-1500

iu daily, did that in the summer of 2006 and into the autumn,

took me 5 mo to connect the dots and about 6 more weeks to

get the excess Vit D out of my system (as a fat soluable, stored

vitamin), at which point excessive hair loss stopped.

May have to do with Vit D receptor (VDR),

or something genetic, not sure. Currently taking 600 iu and

doing fine with that in the last year. No Vit D testing though,

and I do question the testing and its interpretation at this time.

High Vit D bad for the liver? Has some plausibility for me

in that Vit D is a fat soluable vitamin, seco-steroid

or pro-hormone. All substances are

metabolized thru the liver, and it's conceivable to me

this would put an extra burdon on the liver longer term,

especially if one were also taking other substances, vit-mins,

what I call " exotic " supps, and meds including hormone meds.

We've gone from Vit D 200-400 iu commonly in supps, to recs into

the thousands of iu's. WHERE IS MIDDLE GROUND among all the

shifting rhetoric and omissions of adequate perspective?

It seems to me that 400-1000 iu longterm would be sufficient and

not excessive for most people.

[see also my *Links>Nutrients area for more on Vit D, etc.]

Carol Willis

Feb. 1, 2008

cbwillis9@...

*willis_protocols