[Bulk] Re: Bromism: Symptoms and Strategies against Bromide Detox while using Lugols Iodine

[Guest guest]

In my years of moderating this group I have seen it over and over - and experienced it myself - when pushing out bromide the liver gets taxed. I have had constipation, liver pain, acne, hair falling out. I have run the gamut. Liver support has proven to be an effective way of managing detoxing symptoms.

Buist, ND HC

[bulk] Re: Bromism: Symptoms and Strategies against Bromide Detox while using Lugols Iodine

Thanks for your thoughts on this. I still wonder how important liver-mediated bromine detox really is, and what the pathway would be. After all, Dr. Abraham's fundamental method is to use *urine* levels of both iodine and bromide, following provocation with iodine, to measure how much of each the body is eliminating. If elimination via feces (liver) were a big factor, wouldn't those urinary loading tests be invalid?My interest in this comes from having an extraordinary bromide toxicity (over 81 mg/24 hours on an FFP Labs loading test most recently). Dr. Flechas recommended 1 tsp/day Celtic salt plus 50 mg Iodoral per day to address this. If liver detox is really important, other steps might be warranted. I would like to see some evidence of that before acting on that idea, however. I wonder if such evidence exists. So far, I haven't seen it. Do bromine or bromide really exit via feces? If so, that should be easily measurable, I would think.> > >> > > As promised, here is a more extensive explanation of Bromism -- or> > > excess bromide arising in the blood from detox caused by> supplementing> > > lugol's iodine.> > > First, here is a wonderful website that explains very simply the> > > extensive mental and physical symptoms of excess bromide in the> blood.> > > Additonally, this website defines clear and easy strategies against> the> > > effects of bromide excess arising in the blood:> > >> http://breastcancerchoices.org/bromidedetoxsymptomsandstrategies.html> > > This link clearly defines the symptoms to might expect when you> detox> > > bromide from the body. It also clearly defines several successful> and> > > alternative detox strategies if these symptoms become unbearable.> > > There appears to be much fear about Bromism symptoms which are all> > > usually blamed quite unfairly on iodine. Certainly, Bromism can> cause> > > some awful symptoms -- some of the most common symptoms are listed> here:> > > * Depression (e.g., there is no reason to get out of bed)> > > * Brain fog> > > * Acne-like skin problems or rashes.> > > * Leg and hip ache (feels like arthritis)> > > * Brassy metallic taste in mouth> > > * Odd swallowing sensation (reported in old medical literature as> > > "swollen glottis")> > > * Hair loss> > > * Kidney pain> > > * Breast tenderness> > > The symptom list is way more extensive than above, but these seem> to be> > > the favourites.> > > It must also be noted that all companion nutrients(defined in this> link)> > > <http://breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html> must always be> taken> > > with LI for a swift recovery from iodine insufficiency problems.> > > Excess bromide intake from diet interferes with the Sodium-Iodide> > > Symporter(NIS) networks throughout the body. Every cell in the body> > > needs iodine and the NIS networks help to both absorb the iodine> into> > > the blood from the intestines and also help to finally absorb the> iodine> > > from the blood into the cells. These NIS networks are very important> and> > > what excess bromide in the diet does is simply to interfere and> block> > > these iodine NIS absorption gradients in the body -- thus blocking> > > iodine aborption. But, over time, when supplementing lugols iodine,> the> > > bromide is removed and goes straight into the blood in high> > > concentrations. And the organs that must rid the body of bromide are> the> > > kidney and the liver. If these organs cannot cope and are under too> much> > > stress then other detox symptoms(as defined above) will arise. The> > > important thing to remember here is that it is not the lugol's> iodine> > > causing these symptoms -- but the reason is excessive bromide in the> > > blood and poor kidney excretion, which cannot remove the bromide> fast> > > enough. Bromide, after all, is a well-known toxin for the body> whereas> > > iodine, in the form of lugols, is beneficial.> > > Best regards,> > > Bill > > >> >>

[Guest guest]

Yes I need to say that this is manifestly clear in the symptoms and methods of

clearing symptoms that people experience. In addition, we teach

liver/gallbladder flush and other cleansing as important to improving the detox

pathways. This is not done in a vacuum, it's done because the empirical

evidence (symptoms + resolution) makes it self-evident.

As far as testing goes, the fact that the bromide detox and/or iodine metabolism

through the feces is not tested is no proof that it doesn't happen. Testing the

urine establishes numbers that help the person define treatment protocols.

Testing the feces as well would increase the cost of testing, and not

necessarily

result in more information, or more-useful information. The lack of testing

does

not prove the lack of a feces pathway.

--

moderator

On 24 Feb 2012 at 20:49, Buist, ND HC wrote:

>

>

>

> In my years of moderating this group I have seen it over and over -

> and experienced it myself - when pushing out bromide the liver gets

> taxed. I have had constipation, liver pain, acne, hair falling out. I

> have run the gamut. Liver support has proven to be an effective way of

> managing detoxing symptoms.

>

> Buist, ND HC

>

>

> [bulk] Re: Bromism: Symptoms and Strategies

> against Bromide Detox while using Lugols Iodine

>

>

> Thanks for your thoughts on this. I still wonder how important

> liver-mediated bromine detox really is, and what the pathway would be.

> After all, Dr. Abraham's fundamental method is to use *urine* levels

> of both iodine and bromide, following provocation with iodine, to

> measure how much of each the body is eliminating. If elimination via

> feces (liver) were a big factor, wouldn't those urinary loading tests

> be invalid?

>

> My interest in this comes from having an extraordinary bromide

> toxicity (over 81 mg/24 hours on an FFP Labs loading test most

> recently). Dr. Flechas recommended 1 tsp/day Celtic salt plus 50 mg

> Iodoral per day to address this. If liver detox is really important,

> other steps might be warranted. I would like to see some evidence of

> that before acting on that idea, however. I wonder if such evidence

> exists. So far, I haven't seen it. Do bromine or bromide really exit

> via feces? If so, that should be easily measurable, I would think.

>

>

> > > >

> > > > As promised, here is a more extensive explanation of Bromism --

> > > > or excess bromide arising in the blood from detox caused by

> > supplementing

> > > > lugol's iodine.

> > > > First, here is a wonderful website that explains very simply the

> > > > extensive mental and physical symptoms of excess bromide in the

> > blood.

> > > > Additonally, this website defines clear and easy strategies

> > > > against

> > the

> > > > effects of bromide excess arising in the blood:

> > > >

> > http://breastcancerchoices.org/bromidedetoxsymptomsandstrategies.htm

> > l

> > > > This link clearly defines the symptoms to might expect when you

> > detox

> > > > bromide from the body. It also clearly defines several

> > > > successful

> > and

> > > > alternative detox strategies if these symptoms become

> > > > unbearable. There appears to be much fear about Bromism symptoms

> > > > which are all usually blamed quite unfairly on iodine.

> > > > Certainly, Bromism can

> > cause

> > > > some awful symptoms -- some of the most common symptoms are

> > > > listed

> > here:

> > > > * Depression (e.g., there is no reason to get out of bed)

> > > > * Brain fog

> > > > * Acne-like skin problems or rashes.

> > > > * Leg and hip ache (feels like arthritis)

> > > > * Brassy metallic taste in mouth

> > > > * Odd swallowing sensation (reported in old medical literature

> > > > as " swollen glottis " ) * Hair loss * Kidney pain * Breast

> > > > tenderness The symptom list is way more extensive than above,

> > > > but these seem

> > to be

> > > > the favourites.

> > > > It must also be noted that all companion nutrients(defined in

> > > > this

> > link)

> > > > <http://breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html> must always be

> > taken

> > > > with LI for a swift recovery from iodine insufficiency problems.

> > > > Excess bromide intake from diet interferes with the

> > > > Sodium-Iodide Symporter(NIS) networks throughout the body. Every

> > > > cell in the body needs iodine and the NIS networks help to both

> > > > absorb the iodine

> > into

> > > > the blood from the intestines and also help to finally absorb

> > > > the

> > iodine

> > > > from the blood into the cells. These NIS networks are very

> > > > important

> > and

> > > > what excess bromide in the diet does is simply to interfere and

> > block

> > > > these iodine NIS absorption gradients in the body -- thus

> > > > blocking iodine aborption. But, over time, when supplementing

> > > > lugols iodine,

> > the

> > > > bromide is removed and goes straight into the blood in high

> > > > concentrations. And the organs that must rid the body of bromide

> > > > are

> > the

> > > > kidney and the liver. If these organs cannot cope and are under

> > > > too

> > much

> > > > stress then other detox symptoms(as defined above) will arise.

> > > > The important thing to remember here is that it is not the

> > > > lugol's

> > iodine

> > > > causing these symptoms -- but the reason is excessive bromide in

> > > > the blood and poor kidney excretion, which cannot remove the

> > > > bromide

> > fast

> > > > enough. Bromide, after all, is a well-known toxin for the body

> > whereas

> > > > iodine, in the form of lugols, is beneficial.

> > > > Best regards,

> > > > Bill

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

" ...the fact that the bromide detox and/or iodine metabolism

through the feces is not tested is no proof that it doesn't happen. Testing the

urine establishes numbers that help the person define treatment protocols.

Testing the feces as well would increase the cost of testing, and not

necessarily

result in more information, or more-useful information. The lack of testing does

not prove the lack of a feces pathway. "

IIRC, in the famous extended Townsend Letter debate about the iodine protocol,

Dr. Abraham specifically rebutted Dr. Gaby's claim that feces elimination of

iodine invalidates the urinary iodine loading test. Dr. A. acknowledged his

loading test obviously would not work if feces were a significant, unmonitored

exit path for iodine, but in humans (as opposed to cows, for example), it

demonstrably isn't.

I haven't seen Dr. A. or anyone else speak of measurements of inorganic bromide

or bromine in feces, which is why I still wonder if it is significant. (I

believe that organic bromine compounds are, as one would expect, detoxed via

liver and feces, as are organic iodine compounds such as amiodarone.)

I see your point that empirically people seem to do well if they do liver

flushes, etc., and 's point that patterns of symptoms and their

resolution might suggest liver detox of bromine and/or bromide. I was just

asking if anyone knew of more straightforward evidence, which would not seem

hard to gather. Perhaps no one has tried.

> > > > >

> > > > > As promised, here is a more extensive explanation of Bromism --

> > > > > or excess bromide arising in the blood from detox caused by

> > > supplementing

> > > > > lugol's iodine.

> > > > > First, here is a wonderful website that explains very simply the

> > > > > extensive mental and physical symptoms of excess bromide in the

> > > blood.

> > > > > Additonally, this website defines clear and easy strategies

> > > > > against

> > > the

> > > > > effects of bromide excess arising in the blood:

> > > > >

> > > http://breastcancerchoices.org/bromidedetoxsymptomsandstrategies.htm

> > > l

> > > > > This link clearly defines the symptoms to might expect when you

> > > detox

> > > > > bromide from the body. It also clearly defines several

> > > > > successful

> > > and

> > > > > alternative detox strategies if these symptoms become

> > > > > unbearable. There appears to be much fear about Bromism symptoms

> > > > > which are all usually blamed quite unfairly on iodine.

> > > > > Certainly, Bromism can

> > > cause

> > > > > some awful symptoms -- some of the most common symptoms are

> > > > > listed

> > > here:

> > > > > * Depression (e.g., there is no reason to get out of bed)

> > > > > * Brain fog

> > > > > * Acne-like skin problems or rashes.

> > > > > * Leg and hip ache (feels like arthritis)

> > > > > * Brassy metallic taste in mouth

> > > > > * Odd swallowing sensation (reported in old medical literature

> > > > > as " swollen glottis " ) * Hair loss * Kidney pain * Breast

> > > > > tenderness The symptom list is way more extensive than above,

> > > > > but these seem

> > > to be

> > > > > the favourites.

> > > > > It must also be noted that all companion nutrients(defined in

> > > > > this

> > > link)

> > > > > <http://breastcancerchoices.org/iprotocol.html> must always be

> > > taken

> > > > > with LI for a swift recovery from iodine insufficiency problems.

> > > > > Excess bromide intake from diet interferes with the

> > > > > Sodium-Iodide Symporter(NIS) networks throughout the body. Every

> > > > > cell in the body needs iodine and the NIS networks help to both

> > > > > absorb the iodine

> > > into

> > > > > the blood from the intestines and also help to finally absorb

> > > > > the

> > > iodine

> > > > > from the blood into the cells. These NIS networks are very

> > > > > important

> > > and

> > > > > what excess bromide in the diet does is simply to interfere and

> > > block

> > > > > these iodine NIS absorption gradients in the body -- thus

> > > > > blocking iodine aborption. But, over time, when supplementing

> > > > > lugols iodine,

> > > the

> > > > > bromide is removed and goes straight into the blood in high

> > > > > concentrations. And the organs that must rid the body of bromide

> > > > > are

> > > the

> > > > > kidney and the liver. If these organs cannot cope and are under

> > > > > too

> > > much

> > > > > stress then other detox symptoms(as defined above) will arise.

> > > > > The important thing to remember here is that it is not the

> > > > > lugol's

> > > iodine

> > > > > causing these symptoms -- but the reason is excessive bromide in

> > > > > the blood and poor kidney excretion, which cannot remove the

> > > > > bromide

> > > fast

> > > > > enough. Bromide, after all, is a well-known toxin for the body

> > > whereas

> > > > > iodine, in the form of lugols, is beneficial.

> > > > > Best regards,

> > > > > Bill

> > > > >

> > > >

> > >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

>