RE: Post-op thyroid management

[Guest guest]

Hi Becky, what an awful traumatic time you have been through.

However, I do believe we can help you solve the mystery of why Armour doesn't

appear to be working for you.

There are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated

with thyroid disease that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells,

where it does its work. I mention these over and over and over again - ad

nauseum - people must be bored with the same old stuff, but as each new member

joins us, they need to know about these.

The main condition responsible for stopping thyroid hormone from

working is, quite simply, a patient’s dose is too low because the doctor

or consultant refuses to increase it, because the serum thyroid function test

results appear OK. Sometimes, the dose is too high, yet patients still don't

feel well. They continue to suffer. Here are just some reasons for this:

You

may be suffering with low adrenal reserve. The production of T4, its conversion

to T3, and the receptor uptake requires a normal amount of adrenal hormones,

notably, of course, cortisone. (Excess cortisone can shut production down,

however.) This is what happens if the adrenals are not responding properly, and

provision of cortisone usually switches it on again. But sometimes it

doesn’t. If the illness has been going on for a long time, the

enzyme seems to fail. This conversion failure (inexplicably denied by

many endocrinologists) means the thyroxine builds up, unconverted. So it

doesn’t work, and T4 toxicosis results. This makes the patient feel quite

unwell, toxic, often with palpitations and chest pain.

I

would highly recommend that you get the 24 hour salivary adrenal profile done

via Genova Diagnostics. Go to the Home Page of this forum http://health./group.thyroid treatment

and in the Menu, click on FILES. On the page that opens, scroll down to

'Discounts on Tests and Supplements' and then in that document, click on

'Genova Diagnostics' and you can order the test from there, following the

specific instructions to get your discount as a TPA member. The results will be

sent direct to you, so when you receive them, post them on the forum together

with the reference range for each of the tests done and we will help with their

interpretation. Basically, you spit into a test tube at 8.00a.m., 12 noon,

4.00p.m. and again at midnight and they check your levels of cortisol and DHEA

at these times.

Then,

we have systemic candidiasis. This is where candida albicans, yeast, which

causes skin infections almost anywhere in the body, invades the lining of the

lower part of the small intestine and the large intestine. Here, the

candida sets up residence in the warmth and the dark, and demands to be

fed. Loving sugars and starches, candida can make you suffer terrible

sweet cravings. Candida can produce toxins which can cause very many

symptoms of exhaustion, headache, general illness, and which interfere with the

uptake of thyroid and adrenal treatment. Sometimes the levels - which we

usually test for - can be very high, and make successful treatment difficult to

achieve until adequately treated.

Again,

you can get tested for Candida antibodies through Genova (see above) if you

feel this is a possibility.

Then

there is receptor resistance which could be a culprit. Being hypothyroid

for some considerable time may mean the biochemical mechanisms which permit the

binding of T3 to the receptors, is downgraded - so the T3 won’t go

in. With slow build up of T3, with full adrenal support and adequate vitamins

and minerals, the receptors do come on line again. But this can be quite

a slow process, and care has to be taken to build the dose up gradually.

And

then there are Food allergies. The most common food allergy is allergy to

gluten, the protein fraction of wheat. The antibody generated by the body, by a

process of molecular mimicry, cross reacts with the thyroperoxidase enzyme,

(which makes thyroxine) and shuts it down. So allergy to bread can make

you hypothyroid. There may be other food allergies with this kind of effect,

but information on these is scanty. Certainly allergic response to

certain foods can affect adrenal function and imperil thyroid production and

uptake.

Then

we have hormone imbalances. The whole of the endocrine system is linked; each

part of it needs the other parts to be operating normally to work

properly. An example of this we have seen already, with cortisone.

But another example is the operation of sex hormones. The imbalance that

occurs at the menopause with progesterone running down, and a relative

dominance of oestrogen is a further case in point – oestrogen dominance

downgrades production, transportation and uptake of thyroid hormones.

This is why hypothyroidism may first appear at the menopause; the symptoms

ascribed to this alone, which is then treated – often with extra

oestrogen, making the whole thing worse. Deficiency in progesterone most

especially needs to be dealt with, since it reverses oestrogen dominance,

improves many menopausal symptoms like sweats and mood swings, and reverses

osteoporosis. Happily natural progesterone cream is easily obtained: when

used it has the added benefit of helping to stabilise adrenal function.

Then,

we must never forget the possibility of mercury poisoning (through amalgam

fillings) - plus low levels of iron, transferring saturation%, ferritin,

vitamin B12, vitamin D3, magnesium, folate, copper and zinc - all of which, if

low, stop the thyroid hormone from being utilised by the cells - these have to

be treated.

Ask

your doctor to check the levels of the above specific nutrients and when you

get back the results, again, post them on the forum with the reference range so

we can again help with their interpretation.

When

you have been quite unwell for a long time, all these problems have to be dealt

with; and since each may affect the other, it all has to be done rather

carefully.

Contrary to cherished beliefs by much of the medical

establishment, the correction of a thyroid deficiency state has a number of

complexities and variables, which make the treatment usually quite specific for

each person. The balancing of these variables is as much up to you as to

your doctor – which is why a check of morning, day and evening

temperatures and pulse rates, together with symptoms, good and bad, can be so

helpful.

For many of us, the outstanding problem is not that the

diagnosis has not been made – although, extraordinarily, this is

disgracefully common – but that is has, and the thyroid hormone

replacement doesn’t work. The dose has been altered up and down,

and clinical improvement is variable and doesn’t last, in spite of blood

tests, which say you are perfectly all right. Checking through all the above

possibilities by way of a process of elimination will almost definitely give

you the answer as to why your Armour is not working.

Luv - Sheila

Has anyone got any suggestions for managing this please? Do I just have to

weather the storm? How long is it likely to last before I pick up again?

Could/should I increase to 2 1/2 grains sooner than I had planned? (I'm

currently planning the next increase on 10th January.) Has anyone else got any

experience of post-op thyroid problems? You know what it's like, I can't really

discuss this usefully with my GP..

Becky

[Guest guest]

Hi Sheila,

Thank you so much for your reply. It has been a horrible time, but at least I'm

through it now with minimal permanent damage.

I should perhaps have put more detail in my post, as pretty much all the issues

you mention are being addressed already. I had mild candidiasis, for which I

have been treated, but much worse bacterial dysbiosis, for which I have also

been treated and remain on a no-sugar, reduced-carbs diet. I have low-ish

cholesterol, which I am addressing through dietary changes but also through

supplementation with pregnenolone, which similarly addresses the low adrenal

reserve and balancing of the sex hormones through the adrenal cascade. I have

some food allergies so I'm avoiding wheat, dairy, fructose and pork.

I'm also taking iodine (225 mcg), selenium (200 mcg), vitmain D (5,000 iu),

glutathione (50mg), 5-hydroxy-tryptophan (50mg), magnesium (100mg), EPO (5ml),

hemp oil (5ml), fish oil (5ml) Vitamin A (2000 IU), zinc (30mg), iron (14mg x 3)

and probiotics, daily. These are based on my blood and urine test results from

October, as follows.

Blood test:

Haemoglobin 12.6 (12.0 - 16.0)

Haematocrit 39.9 (36 - 46)

Iron 48 (40 - 150)

% transferrin saturation 17.37 (25 - 50)

Ferritin 52 (50 -170)

Magnesium 4.63 (4.0 - 6.0)

25-Hydroxy-Vitamin-D 42.8 (30.0 - 60.0)

Total cholesterol 151 (140 - 200)

Glutathione 60 (56 - 84)

Vitamin A 51 (43 - 111)

Selenium 102 (90 - 143)

Zinc 93 (84 - 135)

TSH 0.68 (0.3 - 4.5)

T3 free 2.48 (2.1 - 4.2)

T4 free 0.99 (0.7 - 1.8)

Testosterone 83 (150 - 600)

DHEA sulfate 114 (65 - 280) (at least that's OK!)

Urine test (24 hrs):

T3 in 24 hrs 622 (800 - 2500)

T4 in 24 hrs 1420 (550 - 3160)

Total 17-OH-steroids (indicative of cortisol status) 3.24 (3.17 - 8.63)

At the time of the tests I was on 1 1/2 grains Armour Thyroid but have been

increasing the dose slowly since then, based on these results and the doctor's

advice. I'm currently taking 2 1/4 grains. The pregnenolone was added following

this test.

My feeling is that what I'm experiencing is a post-operative dip in my thyroid

function, which I hope will be temporary. I did increase the pregnenolone for a

few days while I was still in hospital but dropped it again when I got home as I

couldn't sleep, so I don't think it's an adrenal problem.

I'd be grateful for your thoughts.

Becky

>

> Hi Becky, what an awful traumatic time you have been through. However, I do

> believe we can help you solve the mystery of why Armour doesn't appear to be

> working for you.

>

> There are MANY reasons and many medical conditions associated with thyroid

> disease that stop thyroid hormone from getting into the cells, where it does

> its work. I mention these over and over and over again - ad nauseum - people

> must be bored with the same old stuff, but as each new member joins us, they

> need to know about these.

>